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RAW Software (Ricoh GX100, GRD*)

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7ian7

Guest
I'm achieving anything but flat color rendition using ACR, but I've downloaded the C1 4 demo and will do a bit more experimenting.

Regarding PhotoShop, pretty much every image I process requires at least a handful of adjustment layers. It's the only way I know to achieve impressive depth and contrast while avoiding blocked-up areas and retaining detail across an image that has a wide tonal range. Wouter was mentioning these kind of techniques earlier in the thread, and I've evangelized about them ad nauseum in another post. It's a way more "down to earth" method of working than describing it here may make it sound. It makes things easier, not more difficult, and way, way way more precise. And no that precision doesn't have to mean sacrificing "gutsiness". Anyway, to me it doesn't feel like heavy artillery; the program just runs super-smooth, rarely a crash and none in recent memory.

I don't mind experimenting with other converters — I've tried a bunch of them — but I tend to end up back in ACR and PhotoShop (despite my resistance to the idea of such industry dominance) and it really is way better than it was only a year ago.
 

cam

Active member
which reminds me, Ian... you were quite effusive in your love of using curves on specific areas of the images in that post. i'm not a PS newbee (have been using it since before there were layers -- LOL!), but your explanation kind of flummoxed me. can you explain it again or, perhaps, PM me? thank you!
 
7

7ian7

Guest
1) Eyeball an area in your image you want to alter.

2) Create a curves layer and make the adjustment while focussing your gaze on that area alone (sort of difficult but possible).

3) Take the change even further than you may need, hit "ok", once the change is made, even though it has changed the entire image.

4) Invert the adjustment layer (apple + i on the Mac) so the change "disappears", creating a layer mask (a black square with a frame around it in the layers palette).

5) Then use a low opacity paintbrush (one of a few tool options) to "paint" that adjustment back in with "white", which will reveal the adjustment incrementally and only in the areas you choose. I sometimes get impatient and up the opacity of the tool, but in general, gradually revealing the adjustment garners better results.

That's it. Curves layers are a great way of doing so many things, like making subtle saturation or color adjustments without messing up the integrity of the color with a sponge tool. Great for contrast and depth.

In my experience, it is pretty rare to achieve accurate color or tonality across an entire image — especially an enlarged one — with one set of values.

It is exactly like doing this kind of thing on an enlarger (color or black & white), using various filters or color values and burning and dodging techniques, only this is more accurate, completely non-destructive, and repeatable, which is great. Plus, you can go back and hone your adjustments or turn off layers and add new ones in order to try different adjustments, without losing your initial efforts. (The "Layer Comps" feature is a great way for A/B'ing various combinations of layers with a single click.)

I am sure I am not describing this as clearly as possible but I promise it feels much simpler when you're actually doing it and experiencing the results. If anyone else can say it more simply, or point to an online tutorial that explains it more clearly, please chime-in.
 

cam

Active member
just as Wouter was ready to make a tutorial for me, i got it!!! duh! it was the Adjustment Layer that had me stumped ( i was working almost exclusively in Flash and Illustrator for a few years and missed some of the nuances added to PS). wow wow wow!!! thank you! you don't know how much i've needed this!!!
 
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dandylion

Guest
I've only ever used Pshop, so I can n't really make comparrisons, but I've always found it able to do what I want with it. (Curious grammar!)
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gregg

Guest
7ian7 - your technique for tone adjustment is amazing. I suppose it is basic stuff that could have been learned by going through the tutorial but your succinct explanation was great. Now I don't feel so bad for spending time reading forums - just got my "money's worth" and then some! Thanks!
 
7

7ian7

Guest
Cool, thanks. I feel like I've come to this stuff relatively late in the game — through a retoucher and photo-illustrator I met fairly recently — so I'm excited as hell about these concepts. I'm finally getting results that rival or really surpass what I was achieving in the wet darkroom. (Don't forget to use curves layers for targeted color and saturation adjustments, and it goes on ... I know I'm only scratching the surface, in terms of what tools are available.)

Forums are great: I'm generally kind of resistant to change, but Sean has recently piqued my curiosity about a number of concepts — for instance pre- and manual focussing rather than constantly missing moments and living with that — and processes and software — C1, JFI — that I will ultimately have to explore further.

I've learned or honed some useful techniques thanks to generous and talented photographers on the web.
 

Maggie O

Active member
You know, it's funny- I've been using a technique like Ian's in Photoshop to sharpen up bits of Ortoned images and do selective color, but until I read his post, it never occurred to me to use the technique to do tonal manipulations! w00t!

Also, I'll add a big +1 to Sean's recommendation of JFI B&W profiles in C1; they're beautiful.
 
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wbrandsma

Guest
Thank you for sharing your technique Ian. Instead of the brush you can also use the Lasso tool and select the region you want to adjust with the Curves adjustment layer. Fill it with white and from the Filter menu choose Gaussian blur and opt for a very high setting to create nice feathered borders. With help of the opacity slider you can change the amount of altering. This works really well for larger sections of your photo. The brush is very usefull for smaller regions. For instance emphazing someones cheekbone or nose on a photo.
 

srw

Member
I pushed mine up to 1.5GB.

BTW, a new and much snappier version of LightZone was released today! MAJOR improvement on rendering speed and tool response.
I downloaded the update and I don't think it's any faster,at least for me
That, I can live with but I don't like this new Preview window, it's useless on the laptop I'm using and I miss being able to quickly check and uncheck different saved styles.
Maybe on a bigger screen the Preview would be useful

Like the 24" IMac I've been looking at

Hmmm
 

Maggie O

Active member
After using the new version for a bit, I concur with you- the preview window is a poor substitute for being able to apply and uncheck various styles. Bad move on LZ's part, IMO.
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
...Mitch, if you are reading, why don't you use LightRoom to process RAW files?...
Lightroom is best for overall adjustments but not for selective burning and dodging. For the latter I find the LightZone selection tools, which are vector-based and allow you to control and selections and feathering by pushing vector shapes around on the screen, to be much easier to use and than Photoshop selections. Also, I like the "tone picker" tools of LightZone better suited for my purpose than Photoshop curves. Finally, I like the LightZone "styles" facility, which allows one to save a whole set of adjustment tools as a style that can then be applied to other pictures with similar light characteristics. I usually apply a "style" to a picture and then change the selections and tonal adjustments as required for a particular picture.

The above refers to editing B&W pictures, but if you work in colour and and make only overall adjustments that are not as radical as B&W tonal adjustments, then Lightroom is a very good tool.

—Mitch/Johannesburg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
After using the new version for a bit, I concur with you- the preview window is a poor substitute for being able to apply and uncheck various styles. Bad move on LZ's part, IMO.
Maggie:

I'm traveling and have not downloaded the new version because I've had slow internet access. How has LZ changed with this new Preview Window, and is there now no way of checking or unchecking tools in a Style or changing the Region shape within one of the Tools in a Style? If that is the case the major advantage of editing a Style would have disappeared. Do you recommend not upgrading to the new version?

—Mitch/Johannesburg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 
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gregg

Guest
Lightroom is best for overall adjustments but not for selective burning and dodging.
Thanks Mitch, your experience is certainly appreciated.

I found this video tutorial and think there is a comparable selective adjustment in Lightroom by desaturating a HSL image and then adjusting luminance using the point-tone selector on the image. Just like LightZone you can continue to mess with color temp/tint/etc. to get the final look you like.

Agreed that LightZone's mapping of the various tones is a wonderful visual.


BTW: I still haven't made up my mind between LightZone and Lightroom - they are my two "final contestants" though I'm leaning a bit more toward Lightroom at the moment.

All things considered, LightZone is quite a bit slower and has had a few fatal errors but its B&W tools are truly excellent as Mitch and others have raved. Since B&W conversion is a big priority for me, this is keeping me working with LightZone and trying to find adequate (and easy to use) similarities in Lighroom.

Lightroom is a "one stop shop" solution for 95% of what I need to do - the other 5% being more detailed touch-up, extra sharpening or extreme layered corrections in Photoshop CS. If it weren't so capable in the organization and web presentation modes I might not be as interested in diving in.


—Mitch/Johannesburg
You sure do get around... :D
 

Maggie O

Active member
Maggie:

I'm traveling and have not downloaded the new version because I've had slow internet access. How has LZ changed with this new Preview Window, and is there now no way of checking or unchecking tools in a Style or changing the Region shape within one of the Tools in a Style? If that is the case the major advantage of editing a Style would have disappeared. Do you recommend not upgrading to the new version?

—Mitch/Johannesburg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
Mitch, I think I'd hold off if I were you.

May I ask you to drop a downgrade app file in my .Mac public folder, too? I'd like to do a head-to-head comparison and the new version over-wrote my old one. (Go to Finder-->Go-->iDisk-->Other User's Public Folder and use "Maggie_Osterberg" for the username. No quotes)
 

cam

Active member
Maggie -- if it's too difficult for Mitch from where he is, i still have it. let me know.

never mind -- i'll just do it. you can always dump it.
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
Yes, Cam, you'd better do it if you don't mind as I'll be traveling tomorrow and won't be able to do it until Friday, when I'm back in Bangkok — or perhaps until Saturday, because I'll probably be too jet-lagged on Firday.

Maggie, I'll be most interested in your comparison.

—Mitch/Johannesburg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 

cam

Active member
Yes, Cam, you'd better do it if you don't mind as I'll be traveling tomorrow and won't be able to do it until Friday, when I'm back in Bangkok — or perhaps until Saturday, because I'll probably be too jet-lagged on Firday.

Maggie, I'll be most interested in your comparison.

—Mitch/Johannesburg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
it's done (i figured it would be difficult for you). i'm interested in what Maggie thinks as well.
 
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