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Thread: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

  1. #51
    Super Duper
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    Lili's Avatar
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by studio67 View Post
    You mean this image?

    That does tell the tale then.
    Bravo Sigma, for a scale focus dial.
    Where'd you find that picture, Studio67?
    Last edited by Lili; 1st February 2008 at 07:48.

  2. #52
    Lewis
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Still no lock to stop that dial being turned accidently though! That's my main beef!

  3. #53
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    I'm guessing that you'll have to manually engage the focus wheel with one of the buttons on the back.

  4. #54
    Member kai.e.g.'s Avatar
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Here's another view, from a Japanese site, while focused quite a bit closer than infinity...

  5. #55
    tt113
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    I found the following youtube clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv285AfHtp4
    In the clip, we see the camera quickly fire off two shots with flash enable, it seems fast, but the start-up time seems very long. There are also information floating around that it has a six shot raw buffer, and it will available this march for $800. However, its dimension is 4.5x2.3x2", so it is wider and thicker than the canon G9, which means that it is no longer pocketable. If the price is right, that will make it only $100 more than the ricoh grd II.

  6. #56
    7ian7
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    No camera answers every wish, but this camera will have to be taken seriously.

    It's tiny, its capture-quality will likely blow away our Ricohs, detail-wise, and its auto-focus (and manual focus wheel) will make it a strong contender against the M8 with a 35mm lens, where shot to shot sharpness is a priority. I wish it looked less like a slick p&s and more like the Ricohs, with an ergonomics-biased design, but the release of this camera is a very good development and we should all be cheering it on.

    I commend Sigma for attempting to lay down the gauntlet. Not so long from now, there will be an array of comparably spec'd cameras from competing manufacturers and we'll all benefit.

    Cheers

  7. #57
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by 7ian7 View Post
    I commend Sigma for attempting to lay down the gauntlet. Not so long from now, there will be an array of comparably spec'd cameras from competing manufacturers and we'll all benefit.
    As much as I'd like this to be true, I don't necessarily see it anymore than conjecturing that there will be multiple digital rangefinders not so long from now. Its' success, as will the possibility of rivals, will be dictated by how good it is and by market demand. ROI is still what will drive development, especially of niche products such as these.

  8. #58
    7ian7
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    The high-end glass and features crammed in to small, arguably over-priced bodies aimed at rich, status-conscious types and earnest pro/am shooters alike concept had a bit of a heyday in the Contax, Hexar, GR film era, so I am hoping that processor and sensor technology — and fervor — is evolving to a point where manufacturers will deem this sub-category commercially viable again in the digital realm. My recollection is that the appeal back then extended to a way broader section of the market than simply true believers.

    I can't guarantee it will happen, but I am optimistic. The launch of Nikon's fantastic D3 dslr has the potential to upset the balance of digital power in positive ways this industry hasn't witnessed in years. In a truly competitive environment all kinds of beautiful and seemingly unrelated things can occur .. so who knows.

  9. #59
    7ian7
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Btw, I enjoyed your web gallery, Simon.

  10. #60
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I am very curious to see the reviews of this camera. I've been curious about it and checking progress for the last year. I am not in any rush for another small sensor camera and do like what I've seen from the GRD II and GX100. I am with you that f4 and ISO 800 could be a problem as I've used ISO 1250 and f2 with a slow shutter speed when out at a some restaurants/bars with friends. If I am stuck using the DP1 as a good light camera my d-lux3 works just fine for the sized prints I would need. I was looking for it to really shine where my other small sensor cameras don't in low light.
    As soon as I get one to review....

    Cheers,

    Sean

  11. #61
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirV View Post
    This is true but then the DP1 has only the focus wheel and no shutter and appreture and this I think would be more impotant.
    .
    We need all four: focus, aperture, shutter speed, ISO. This is something I'll be discussing with Ricoh.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  12. #62
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Given this and the other comments here, just who is target market for the DP1? Enthusiasts might be put off by the contradictory features; and presumably Joe Average won't be interested, and it's not a fashion statement.

    Bertie
    I don't know nor does anyone outside Sigma and the firms it contracts for marker research, PR, etc. In a nutshell, though, the potential appeal is the rendering of a good APS-H (roughly) sized sensor in a pocket sized body. But that's just my sense, I'm not privy to Sigma's target.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  13. #63
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    Sean,
    I missed that. Where do you see this? I agree whole heartedly with the need!

    Manual Focus= Dial Type

    is that it?
    Yup, wheel on the back with distance markings -thumb location...shown in pics since the first prototype and a very smart design.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  14. #64
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    [QUOTE=Robert Campbell;8937]
    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirV View Post
    This is true but then the DP1 has only the focus wheel and no shutter and appreture and this I think would be more impotant.
    QUOTE]

    The blurb says that the auto focus has 9 points, but doesn't make it clear if the focus wheel merely selects these, or if manual focus is continuous from whatever the minimum distance is to infinity.

    Bertie
    The wheel sets manual focus distance as I mentioned earlier.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  15. #65
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Still no lock to stop that dial being turned accidently though! That's my main beef!
    I wouldn't worry about that until we actually get to try this system. We don't know what the action's weighting is, etc. This is the focus control I was talking about in the GR2 review.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Last edited by Sean_Reid; 1st February 2008 at 20:46.

  16. #66
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Folks...as for the worries and complaints about a camera none of us has yet worked with...

    Einstein, reportedly, used to sometimes take potential assistants out to lunch. And he would watch the prospective assistant to see if he seasoned (with salt and pepper) his food before tasting it. If he did, Einstein had no use for him because he wasn't a good scientist - acting in advance of empirical information.

    We know that F/4 at ISO 800 is F/4 at ISO 800. Cameras can vary 1/3 stop (rarely 2/3 stop) or so in actual sensitivity at a given ISO but, otherwise, exposure is exposure. But as to how well the rest of the camera might or might not work, lets wait until we've actually used the camera.

    I understand that my outlook on this is not very "Internet-ish" but I do try to taste my food before I salt it. Conjecture is fine, of course, but criticizing perceived weaknesses in this camera may be a bit premature.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  17. #67
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    We know that F/4 at ISO 800 is F/4 at ISO 800. Cameras can vary 1/3 stop (rarely 2/3 stop) or so in actual sensitivity at a given ISO but,
    Was the 800 cap news as of this recent press release, or was that known - almost wrote "known issue" - during the last year? Has anyone else been quite expecting 1600 or higher?

    Pass the salt, please? ; )

    Thomas

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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    I understand that my outlook on this is not very "Internet-ish" but I do try to taste my food before I salt it. Conjecture is fine, of course, but criticizing perceived weaknesses in this camera may be a bit premature.

  19. #69
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by thomasl.se View Post
    Was the 800 cap news as of this recent press release, or was that known - almost wrote "known issue" - during the last year? Has anyone else been quite expecting 1600 or higher?

    Pass the salt, please? ; )

    Thomas
    the 800 cap was announced only with this release, i believe. most people expected 1600 and were hoping for higher because of the larger sensor.... my understanding is that this was limited due to the small size of the camera as is the issue of f/4.

    speaking as somebody who is obviously one of the target markets Sigma is hoping to attract, i am willing to wait before i moan about it's short-comings. i find it refreshing that they did NOT put in 1600 or higher because they knew it would look like crap. with all cameras, there are limitations. we learn to work with them and if we can work around them.... one of the joys of photography!

  20. #70
    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    I don't know nor does anyone outside Sigma and the firms it contracts for marker research, PR, etc. In a nutshell, though, the potential appeal is the rendering of a good APS-H (roughly) sized sensor in a pocket sized body. But that's just my sense, I'm not privy to Sigma's target.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Looking through the comments here, might Sigma see it as a sort of (Ur)Leica for those for whom a real Leica remains an aspiration?
    Sláinte

    Robert.

  21. #71
    Member kai.e.g.'s Avatar
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    I don't remember if it was in the original prototypes - someone else probably does - but one thing that a few people familiar with Sigma have pointed out in other forums is the company also "held back" on higher ISO settings in the initial release of their SD-14 dSLR, and only made higher ISO available later as part of a firmware upgrade. That could have simply been because ISO 1600 (or whatever the cut-off was) wasn't yet ready for prime time, but I suppose one could also conjecture that Sigma prefers most of the published reviews of the camera to take place at <= 800 ISO (within margins of what they consider to be great IQ), and once things settle down in the press a bit, they quietly open the doors to higher ISO/poorer IQ with a firmware upgrade. Perhaps they figure that capping at 800 might only get a passing mention in reviews, while less-than-stellar IQ at >= 1600 might get too much of the wrong kind of attention. Beats me.


    Quote Originally Posted by thomasl.se View Post
    Was the 800 cap news as of this recent press release, or was that known - almost wrote "known issue" - during the last year? Has anyone else been quite expecting 1600 or higher?

    Pass the salt, please? ; )

    Thomas

  22. #72
    VladimirV
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    We need all four: focus, aperture, shutter speed, ISO. This is something I'll be discussing with Ricoh.
    This would be great as long as it won't make the camera bigger or clutered with too many wheels. But if Ricoh can implement this it would be great .

  23. #73
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by thomasl.se View Post
    Was the 800 cap news as of this recent press release, or was that known - almost wrote "known issue" - during the last year? Has anyone else been quite expecting 1600 or higher?

    Thomas
    I was expecting 1600 but I'm betting they couldn't get the file quality they wanted at that speed.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  24. #74
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Looking through the comments here, might Sigma see it as a sort of (Ur)Leica for those for whom a real Leica remains an aspiration?
    I don't know how Sigma see it although I'll talk to them about it. But it might end up being an interesting alternative for people who lean towards the M8 or the R-D1.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  25. #75
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by kai.e.g. View Post
    I don't remember if it was in the original prototypes - someone else probably does - but one thing that a few people familiar with Sigma have pointed out in other forums is the company also "held back" on higher ISO settings in the initial release of their SD-14 dSLR, and only made higher ISO available later as part of a firmware upgrade. That could have simply been because ISO 1600 (or whatever the cut-off was) wasn't yet ready for prime time, but I suppose one could also conjecture that Sigma prefers most of the published reviews of the camera to take place at <= 800 ISO (within margins of what they consider to be great IQ), and once things settle down in the press a bit, they quietly open the doors to higher ISO/poorer IQ with a firmware upgrade. Perhaps they figure that capping at 800 might only get a passing mention in reviews, while less-than-stellar IQ at >= 1600 might get too much of the wrong kind of attention. Beats me.

    That's an interesting theory.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  26. #76
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    Re: Some Salt

    There are some full-sized samples available online now, shot at all ISO's and some even at night here:

    http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/re...2/02/7893.html

    Some of the same shots are also at the following link; I mention this only in case a Japanese reader is able to glean more info from one site page than the other:

    http://www.digitalcamera.jp/

    I don't think Mitch Alland is going to like this camera Having said that, there is noise, even at ISO 200... but that noise does not look so "film-like" to me. Foveons/Sigma are notorious for splotches of green & magenta, that is in evidence, especially at ISO 800; it may be something easily handled in PP. That said, the images are pretty amazing when you consider the size of the box that made them!

  27. #77
    wbrandsma
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    I did notice quite a lot of distortion. It is expecially noticable on the left image in the lowest row.

  28. #78
    helgipelgi
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    With the lens protruding from the body like this, would it be possible to make a similar design with interchangeable lenses?

  29. #79
    hiro
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    The test images are certainly very smooth. Featureless areas such as the sky tend to look more grainy with a CCD-based compact camera, or even with a 4/3 SLR, but with the DP1 they look smooth even after quite a bit of sharpening (until the JPEG artefacts appear). I wonder if this is due to the foveon or simply the large sensor size.

  30. #80
    mourges
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    Folks...as for the worries and complaints about a camera none of us has yet worked with...

    Einstein, reportedly, used to sometimes take potential assistants out to lunch. And he would watch the prospective assistant to see if he seasoned (with salt and pepper) his food before tasting it. If he did, Einstein had no use for him because he wasn't a good scientist - acting in advance of empirical information.

    Sean
    I heard that story as something from Henry Ford, not Einstein, and it was potential managers that he would take out - some reasoning. Ford was a big believer of Scientific Management.

  31. #81
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by mourges View Post
    I heard that story as something from Henry Ford, not Einstein, and it was potential managers that he would take out - some reasoning. Ford was a big believer of Scientific Management.
    Simply OT but,

    Yes, this is the first time I heard this salt anecdote accredited Einstein. I've heard one though which if true or close enough, well...
    Einstein was gifted a kit of shaving soap and blade from a colleague, and starts showing up neatly shaven for a while. Then suddenly his chins are freshly scarred. After some time the colleague asks about it - maybe his morning hour has been particularly rushed lately - and is given the reply that the shaving soap is finito.

    Thomas

  32. #82
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: Some Salt

    Quote Originally Posted by kai.e.g. View Post
    ...I don't think Mitch Alland is going to like this camera Having said that, there is noise, even at ISO 200...
    Whether it's noise or grain the ISO 800/f4.0 limit is just not fast enough for what I often like to shoot.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  33. #83
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: DP1 Advertisement in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    ...We need all four: focus, aperture, shutter speed, ISO. This is something I'll be discussing with Ricoh...
    Sean, I would add to your four controls the two that the D-Lux-3/LX2 has on it's lens barrel: AF/Macro Focus/MF and Aspect Ratio.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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