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Thread: examples Sigma DP1

  1. #51
    Member gromitspapa's Avatar
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    The reason the lens had to be so slow is that they wanted light to hit the sensor as close to perpendicularly as possible, as is the goal with all digital designs (source here). This minimizes light falloff, color, and clarity issues in the periphery of the sensor. The samples so far show excellent corner performance. I'd trade some of that corner performance and lack of light falloff for a faster lens. Give me a 40mm equivalent FOV and an f/2 lens, make the body a bit bigger (G9 size) allowing for some vignetting and corner softness wide open (improving as stopped down), and put in a decent integrated OVF. I'd pay $1200 for that, even if high ISO performance were no better than what we're seeing so far from the DP1.
    It's more than that. With the Fovean sensor, the photo sites have color receptors stacked vertically, and with a wider aperture, the red sensor at the bottom of the well doesn't get the light and the red color drops out.

  2. #52
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by lucridders View Post
    Well yes, the DP1 has still to prove itself. Ricoh was proving to me already and the verdict is very bad. I know, it is because I know nothing about photography. But I will not longer use a cam where you can never say in advance (except some situations) what the result will be.
    From what you are saying it would appear that you would be far better off with a pure Point-and-Shoot. One working very well in fully automatic mode. Something that neither the GRD, GX-100 or indeed the DP-1 are designed to be. So the fault does not lie with Ricoh. Indeed you might better be served with something like a Fuji Finepix F31fd. I've found it to be very very good for general "happy snaps". Had I still had mine I would offer it in trade for your GX-100
    You might consider also the Finepix F50fd or the new F100fd (it has a 28mm wide end of the zoom).

    edit pardon the OT wandering here, I simply saw an opportunity to be of help
    Last edited by Lili; 10th February 2008 at 07:57.

  3. #53
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    It's very slightly larger than the GRD II as you can see halfway through this video.
    Asabet, thank you so much for posting that video! It is indeed far smaller than I'd imagined.
    I wish I'd more experience with the Foevon sensor (the only APS-C sensor camera I've ever used is my Pentax K100D).
    Depending on price I may get a DP-1.
    That is, if I don't get a GX-100 first.
    I very much like my GRD and the look of the images it yields, and the work I've seen for Wouters and others using the GX is very impressive.
    There is much to be said for keeping to the same interface

  4. #54
    asabet
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Sure thing Lili. It's smaller than I was expecting also. Right now, Amazon has the DP1 for pre-order at $800. Ricoh should pay Wouter for all the GX100s being sold due to his excellent work!

  5. #55
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    From what you are saying it would appear that you would be far better off with a pure Point-and-Shoot. One working very well in fully automatic mode. Something that neither the GRD, GX-100 or indeed the DP-1 are designed to be. So the fault does not lie with Ricoh. Indeed you might better be served with something like a Fuji Finepix F31fd. I've found it to be very very good for general "happy snaps". Had I still had mine I would offer it in trade for your GX-100
    You might consider also the Finepix F50fd or the new F100fd (it has a 28mm wide end of the zoom).

    edit pardon the OT wandering here, I simply saw an opportunity to be of help
    I like your response Lili!

    It's a very tactful and kind way to say "LEARN HOW TO WORK THE CAMERA ________"!

    And we know how dreadful those automatic point 'n' shoots are.

    Me? Mince words?

  6. #56
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Player,
    It was not my intent to 'diss' anyone.
    Just giving advice.
    Some people are not 'gearheads' and simply want to take a decent image of what they concieve.
    My Friend to whom I gave my F31fd is one such.
    She has splendid concepts but little grasp of the nut and bolts.
    For her the Fuji is great, as it has superb exposure and focus in full auto mode.
    It does fantastic with both flash and available light if left to its own devices.
    But I wanted far more control.
    With control come the chance to fail.
    With failure comes the chance to learn.

  7. #57
    7ian7
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    For what it offers (on paper), the DP1 is truly tiny. I think (hope) that once we see real shooters working it, the images it produces will generate a lot more excitement about its potential than what we've seen so far.

    As much as many of us love our current Ricohs, greater resolution in small cameras is a positive development. I hope that somewhere down the line we'll see offerings that address this need from Ricoh and from other manufacturers, whatever the technology necessary to achieve it turns out to be.

    The M8 is a beautiful camera, but quite a financial commitment, and I've always had a difficult *terrible time manually focussing rangefinders, more than most people, I'm sure. So for me, my desire to own it because of the glass and design is besides the point it really doesn't make sense. I'm interested in a rumored Nikon digital rangefinder, but have never actually seen an article about it, just hearsay.

    Anyway, if the DP1 turns out to be good, at $800 it will be pretty compelling.

  8. #58
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by 7ian7 View Post
    For what it offers (on paper), the DP1 is truly tiny. I think (hope) that once we see real shooters working it, the images it produces will generate a lot more excitement about its potential than what we've seen so far.

    As much as many of us love our current Ricohs, greater resolution in small cameras is a positive development. I hope that somewhere down the line we'll see offerings that address this need from Ricoh and from other manufacturers, whatever the technology necessary to achieve it turns out to be.

    The M8 is a beautiful camera, but quite a financial commitment, and I've always had a difficult *terrible time manually focussing rangefinders, more than most people, I'm sure. So for me, my desire to own it because of the glass and design is besides the point it really doesn't make sense. I'm interested in a rumored Nikon digital rangefinder, but have never actually seen an article about it, just hearsay.

    Anyway, if the DP1 turns out to be good, at $800 it will be pretty compelling.
    Ian, I couldn't agree more

  9. #59
    wbrandsma
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    Sure thing Lili. It's smaller than I was expecting also. Right now, Amazon has the DP1 for pre-order at $800. Ricoh should pay Wouter for all the GX100s being sold due to his excellent work!
    Thank you Amin. I was suprised and flattered when I read your post. Thank you again!

  10. #60
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    Wink Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    Player,
    It was not my intent to 'diss' anyone.
    Just giving advice.
    Some people are not 'gearheads' and simply want to take a decent image of what they concieve.
    My Friend to whom I gave my F31fd is one such.
    She has splendid concepts but little grasp of the nut and bolts.
    For her the Fuji is great, as it has superb exposure and focus in full auto mode.
    It does fantastic with both flash and available light if left to its own devices.
    But I wanted far more control.
    With control come the chance to fail.
    With failure comes the chance to learn.
    "Some people are not 'gearheads' and simply want to take a decent image of what they conceive."

    TRANSLATION: Some people haven't been able to figure-out how to work a simple little camera, and they're stuck with what the camera gives them.

    "She has splendid concepts but little grasp of the nut and bolts."

    TRANSLATION: She doesn't know an f-stop from a shutter speed, but the lamp posts seeming to grow out of her subject's heads are very creative.

    "For her the Fuji is great, as it has superb exposure and focus in full auto mode."

    TRANSLATION: For her (not knowing her a** from her elbow), the Fuji does a perfectly good job of ruining the exposures for her.

    "It does fantastic with both flash and available light if left to its own devices."

    TRANSLATION: The images are truly horrific with both flash and available light, but much better than when she is left to her own devices.

    Seriously Lili, I'm just being silly, and no offense intended.

    I hope I'm not in trouble now.

  11. #61
    7ian7
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Wow, I didn't get that at all from Lili's post.

    I'm frequently transfixed by the beauty of images made by non-professionals using cameras that are entirely automatic.

    The GX100 doesn't excel in that arena, so the Fuji sounds like a generous recommendation; an inexpensive alternative for those not committed to RAW, who are interested in hassle-free snapping.

  12. #62
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by 7ian7 View Post
    Wow, I didn't get that at all from Lili's post.

    I'm frequently transfixed by the beauty of images made by non-professionals using cameras that are entirely automatic.

    The GX100 doesn't excel in that arena, so the Fuji sounds like a generous recommendation; an inexpensive alternative for those not committed to RAW, who are interested in hassle-free snapping.
    Ian,
    Your take is correct.
    Eileen does some lovely work with her Fuji.
    For me my GRD is much better fit.

  13. #63
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by 7ian7 View Post
    Wow, I didn't get that at all from Lili's post.
    Just satire. Sometimes attempts at humor are risky.

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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    How could you not be in trouble with such a pointed and negative response.

    If you have suggestions as to how she may better understand the technicalities of photography instead of dissing her for her "deficiencies" then you will have helped someone instead of putting them down.

    All in all a sad statement about inflated egos

    Woody Spedden

  15. #65
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by 7ian7 View Post
    Sean, if you've spent any time with it, I'd be curious about your experiences (and anyone else's).
    I haven't yet but I'm looking forward to it.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  16. #66
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    How could you not be in trouble with such a pointed and negative response.

    If you have suggestions as to how she may better understand the technicalities of photography instead of dissing her for her "deficiencies" then you will have helped someone instead of putting them down.

    All in all a sad statement about inflated egos

    Woody Spedden
    Was this directed at me? If so, lighten up!

    I'm shocked at the negativity towards me.

    I'm seeing sad statements about people taking themselves WAY too seriously.

    I wasn't dissing anyone, and certainly not Lili. I have no idea who she was talking about, and I know that Lili meant exactly what she said.

    Hey, I thought it was humorous, that's all. Nothing more and nothing less.

  17. #67
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Just a reminder...and I speak generally here...for now <G>

    This is a friendly forum about photography. We can be confident that anyone who trolls, cannot respect the rules etc. will be warned and/or banned. So I would encourage people not to get pulled in by the various kinds of bait that often gets put out on forums. It can end up being a waste of time both for the people who get pulled into it and for anyone trying to read a given thread.

    As for any personal disagreements that really aren't about photography - don't forget that PMs and e-mails are great ways to have private conversations that really should be *private* conversations.

    Jack and Guy are not at their computers 24/7 but they get things sorted out as needed as soon as they get a chance. And let's remember that we all treat each other respectfully here.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  18. #68
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    Just a reminder...and I speak generally here...for now <G>

    This is a friendly forum about photography. We can be confident that anyone who trolls, cannot respect the rules etc. will be warned and/or banned. So I would encourage people not to get pulled in by the various kinds of bait that often gets put out on forums. It can end up being a waste of time both for the people who get pulled into it and for anyone trying to read a given thread.

    As for any personal disagreements that really aren't about photography - don't forget that PMs and e-mails are great ways to have private conversations that really should be *private* conversations.

    Jack and Guy are not at their computers 24/7 but they get things sorted out as needed as soon as they get a chance. And let's remember that we all treat each other respectfully here.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Don't worry, nothing needs to be sorted out. It is what it is.

    Here I was just trying to add a little humor to a very droll thread hoping I had hit someone's funny bone. Apparently I missed the mark. Oh well, live and learn. No disrespect intended.

  19. #69
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: examples Sigma DP1

    Hi everyone just walked in the door from driving all day with Jack from Moab so just catching up here . First off everyone let's settle down a little here . I already had several complaints on Stanmi and Lucridders and following our policy with regards to complaints and such and past history both of them have been removed from the forum. We simply had no choice and i had to do it on a Iphone driving home. Not my idea of fun folks. This camera has caused a stir around here from what I can gather and it seems to stem from where it should reside. frankly i have no idea if this belongs in 4/3rds or Small sensor. For now let's post about it in other camera's and we can figure out it's home and can move it to it's real home after we figure out where it belongs . LOL. I am going to just close this thread , just because it makes sense to me and I maybe wrong but i just think it is a good idea. Peace and harmony rule the day on this forum and we all know how much we like that here on this forum so from my seat just seems the right thing to do. i edited some comments and such but I'm too tired to deal with it now. I think after i had to ban two people from this thread alone enough is enough and let's just move on to something more important. Sorry if you disagree with my actions but we have close to 600 members and Jack and I will do what is best for the members at large. Enjoy the rest of the weekend and let's start this camera off on a better foot. Thanks Guy

    Also thanks to Sean and others that have sent PM's and reports to us. This is important and we appreciate it very much, Jack and I have just finished our Moab workshop and we were very busy teaching and shooting so we were a little left out on the forum at large so we are sorry we could not react a little faster to this issue with these two individuals. Frankly they both knew the score when signing up and it's there own doing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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