examples Sigma DP1

[7ian7]

Regarding grain, Mitch, over the past week I've been putting the new version of Exposure (Alien Skin) through its paces, and it's amazing. Something about it — in philosophical and technical terms — doesn't feel entirely kosher, but the results — control over grain and contrast and color caste to achieve specific film-like qualities using parameter sliders with names that speak to our knowledge of film characteristics — is very, very good, and may be exactly what you're looking for.

I won't claim it's exactly comparable to Polapan or pushed Tri-X, but the results are extremely pleasing

Sean, if you've spent any time with it, I'd be curious about your experiences (and anyone else's).

 

[Maggie O]

I'm dubious to the actual x3 claims that Sigma is making. I was being a bit facetious.

Has anyone compared the size of the DP1 to, say, an M8 or GR-D II? It looks like it sits somewhere in-between.

 

[7ian7]

Maggie,

Three quarters of the way down the page of the following link, under the heading Other Niches, M. Reichman makes a pretty good summary of what's going with the DP1 sensor(s). Not that it will necessarily quell your skepticism (he's quite skeptical), but you may find it interesting.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/tea-leaves.shtml

Cheers,
Ian

 

[asabet]

I'm dubious to the actual x3 claims that Sigma is making. I was being a bit facetious.

Has anyone compared the size of the DP1 to, say, an M8 or GR-D II? It looks like it sits somewhere in-between.

It's very slightly larger than the GRD II as you can see halfway through this video.

 

[Maggie O]

Interesting.

I have a feeling it might be best to wait for the DP2 or at least the DP1.5.

 

[asabet]

The reason the lens had to be so slow is that they wanted light to hit the sensor as close to perpendicularly as possible, as is the goal with all digital designs (source here). This minimizes light falloff, color, and clarity issues in the periphery of the sensor. The samples so far show excellent corner performance. I'd trade some of that corner performance and lack of light falloff for a faster lens. Give me a 40mm equivalent FOV and an f/2 lens, make the body a bit bigger (G9 size) allowing for some vignetting and corner softness wide open (improving as stopped down), and put in a decent integrated OVF. I'd pay $1200 for that, even if high ISO performance were no better than what we're seeing so far from the DP1.

 

[Player]

Seems that lots of Ricoh users like to see things in such a way that the Ricoh is still better. I know better. As user of rthe GRDII, GX100 and R7, I can tell you that when you take the same (same) pictures with a Ricoh, the quality will be much less and not a little bit. You will not see blotches in the skycorner, but you will see them all over. I think people who are blaiming the DP1 now, are just doing so because they see that it is much and much better. So, little bit of honnesty is on his place here.
The Ricoh gear is so good, that I try to sell it now for few months and nobody is quite interested. Strange.

Well, the DP-1 does have to prove itself superior to the Ricoh offerings, and from the preliminary data, the Sigma doesn't seem very compelling.

Regarding your cameras for sale, maybe folks just don't want to deal with you, but of course, to you, the cameras are to blame. As always.

 

[lucridders]

Well yes, the DP1 has still to prove itself. Ricoh was proving to me already and the verdict is very bad. I know, it is because I know nothing about photography. But I will not longer use a cam where you can never say in advance (except some situations) what the result will be. So, I waite for the DP1 to see if it is better, but I do not start in advance to complain against it as I see here quite a lot as well as on other forums.
For me they made already some big mistakes, but this has nothing to see with IQ. Is more that you still need a separate viewfinder instead of build in one plus a few more. About Ricoh, I can say that they will have a hard time.

 

[Cindy Flood]

The Ricoh gear is so good, that I try to sell it now for few months and nobody is quite interested. Strange.

I know that a couple of Ricoh's have changed hands here on the b/s of this forum during the last month, because I bought one of them. I am very happy with my GX-100 purchase. This is off-topic to this thread, but I think that your statement is wrong.

 

[asabet]

The Ricoh gear is so good, that I try to sell it now for few months and nobody is quite interested. Strange.

It took less than a day for my GX100 to sell recently at the asking price. I have not seen your cameras for sale in the Buy & Sell forum here, nor FredMiranda or Ebay. Where are you selling, and what is your asking price for the GRD II and GX100?

 

[gromitspapa]

The reason the lens had to be so slow is that they wanted light to hit the sensor as close to perpendicularly as possible, as is the goal with all digital designs (source here). This minimizes light falloff, color, and clarity issues in the periphery of the sensor. The samples so far show excellent corner performance. I'd trade some of that corner performance and lack of light falloff for a faster lens. Give me a 40mm equivalent FOV and an f/2 lens, make the body a bit bigger (G9 size) allowing for some vignetting and corner softness wide open (improving as stopped down), and put in a decent integrated OVF. I'd pay $1200 for that, even if high ISO performance were no better than what we're seeing so far from the DP1.

It's more than that. With the Fovean sensor, the photo sites have color receptors stacked vertically, and with a wider aperture, the red sensor at the bottom of the well doesn't get the light and the red color drops out.

 

[Lili]

Well yes, the DP1 has still to prove itself. Ricoh was proving to me already and the verdict is very bad. I know, it is because I know nothing about photography. But I will not longer use a cam where you can never say in advance (except some situations) what the result will be.

From what you are saying it would appear that you would be far better off with a pure Point-and-Shoot. One working very well in fully automatic mode. Something that neither the GRD, GX-100 or indeed the DP-1 are designed to be. So the fault does not lie with Ricoh. Indeed you might better be served with something like a Fuji Finepix F31fd. I've found it to be very very good for general "happy snaps". Had I still had mine I would offer it in trade for your GX-100
You might consider also the Finepix F50fd or the new F100fd (it has a 28mm wide end of the zoom).

edit pardon the OT wandering here, I simply saw an opportunity to be of help

 

[Lili]

It's very slightly larger than the GRD II as you can see halfway through this video.

Asabet, thank you so much for posting that video! It is indeed far smaller than I'd imagined. :thumbs:
I wish I'd more experience with the Foevon sensor (the only APS-C sensor camera I've ever used is my Pentax K100D).
Depending on price I may get a DP-1.
That is, if I don't get a GX-100 first.
I very much like my GRD and the look of the images it yields, and the work I've seen for Wouters and others using the GX is very impressive.
There is much to be said for keeping to the same interface

 

[asabet]

Sure thing Lili. It's smaller than I was expecting also. Right now, Amazon has the DP1 for pre-order at $800. Ricoh should pay Wouter for all the GX100s being sold due to his excellent work!

 

[Player]

From what you are saying it would appear that you would be far better off with a pure Point-and-Shoot. One working very well in fully automatic mode. Something that neither the GRD, GX-100 or indeed the DP-1 are designed to be. So the fault does not lie with Ricoh. Indeed you might better be served with something like a Fuji Finepix F31fd. I've found it to be very very good for general "happy snaps". Had I still had mine I would offer it in trade for your GX-100
You might consider also the Finepix F50fd or the new F100fd (it has a 28mm wide end of the zoom).

edit pardon the OT wandering here, I simply saw an opportunity to be of help

I like your response Lili! :clap:

It's a very tactful and kind way to say "LEARN HOW TO WORK THE CAMERA ________"!

And we know how dreadful those automatic point 'n' shoots are. :ROTFL:

Me? Mince words? :toocool:

 

[Lili]

Player,
It was not my intent to 'diss' anyone.
Just giving advice.
Some people are not 'gearheads' and simply want to take a decent image of what they concieve.
My Friend to whom I gave my F31fd is one such.
She has splendid concepts but little grasp of the nut and bolts.
For her the Fuji is great, as it has superb exposure and focus in full auto mode.
It does fantastic with both flash and available light if left to its own devices.
But I wanted far more control.
With control come the chance to fail.
With failure comes the chance to learn.

 

[7ian7]

For what it offers (on paper), the DP1 is truly tiny. I think (hope) that once we see real shooters working it, the images it produces will generate a lot more excitement about its potential than what we've seen so far.

As much as many of us love our current Ricohs, greater resolution in small cameras is a positive development. I hope that somewhere down the line we'll see offerings that address this need from Ricoh and from other manufacturers, whatever the technology necessary to achieve it turns out to be.

The M8 is a beautiful camera, but quite a financial commitment, and I've always had a difficult —*terrible — time manually focussing rangefinders, more than most people, I'm sure. So for me, my desire to own it because of the glass and design is besides the point — it really doesn't make sense. I'm interested in a rumored Nikon digital rangefinder, but have never actually seen an article about it, just hearsay.

Anyway, if the DP1 turns out to be good, at $800 it will be pretty compelling.

 

[Lili]

For what it offers (on paper), the DP1 is truly tiny. I think (hope) that once we see real shooters working it, the images it produces will generate a lot more excitement about its potential than what we've seen so far.

As much as many of us love our current Ricohs, greater resolution in small cameras is a positive development. I hope that somewhere down the line we'll see offerings that address this need from Ricoh and from other manufacturers, whatever the technology necessary to achieve it turns out to be.

The M8 is a beautiful camera, but quite a financial commitment, and I've always had a difficult —*terrible — time manually focussing rangefinders, more than most people, I'm sure. So for me, my desire to own it because of the glass and design is besides the point — it really doesn't make sense. I'm interested in a rumored Nikon digital rangefinder, but have never actually seen an article about it, just hearsay.

Anyway, if the DP1 turns out to be good, at $800 it will be pretty compelling.

Ian, I couldn't agree more

 

[wbrandsma]

Sure thing Lili. It's smaller than I was expecting also. Right now, Amazon has the DP1 for pre-order at $800. Ricoh should pay Wouter for all the GX100s being sold due to his excellent work!

Thank you Amin. I was suprised and flattered when I read your post. Thank you again!

 

[Player]

Player,
It was not my intent to 'diss' anyone.
Just giving advice.
Some people are not 'gearheads' and simply want to take a decent image of what they concieve.
My Friend to whom I gave my F31fd is one such.
She has splendid concepts but little grasp of the nut and bolts.
For her the Fuji is great, as it has superb exposure and focus in full auto mode.
It does fantastic with both flash and available light if left to its own devices.
But I wanted far more control.
With control come the chance to fail.
With failure comes the chance to learn.

"Some people are not 'gearheads' and simply want to take a decent image of what they conceive."

TRANSLATION: Some people haven't been able to figure-out how to work a simple little camera, and they're stuck with what the camera gives them.

"She has splendid concepts but little grasp of the nut and bolts."

TRANSLATION: She doesn't know an f-stop from a shutter speed, but the lamp posts seeming to grow out of her subject's heads are very creative.

"For her the Fuji is great, as it has superb exposure and focus in full auto mode."

TRANSLATION: For her (not knowing her a** from her elbow), the Fuji does a perfectly good job of ruining the exposures for her.

"It does fantastic with both flash and available light if left to its own devices."

TRANSLATION: The images are truly horrific with both flash and available light, but much better than when she is left to her own devices.

Seriously Lili, I'm just being silly, and no offense intended. :toocool:

I hope I'm not in trouble now. :angel: