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Thread: Another Ricoh decison thread....

  1. #1
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    Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Hi to everyone here. First I would like to introduce myself to all the members of this peculiar new forum. After years reading and posting in places such as DP, FM and Luminous-Landscape, I have found this place very refreshing, and have found some really interesting read in the days I have been around as a lurker...It´s funny how I allready feel so familiar with some of the regular posters, and it´s great to find here "old friends" like Sean Reid. All in all I really like the "atmosphere" around here.

    My photographic background is mainly digital. I learnt photography with digital cameras and have been shooting Canon DSLR´s for years now. But a few years ago, being mainly interested in BW, I felt "the call" of film and started playing around with negatives..doing my own developing and so..I thought it was fascinating and to make a long story short I ended up investing in a Leica outfit: M7 with 35 and 50 Crons and a 90 Elmarit. I loved the thing and found that surprisingly I liked the approach to the process of creation an image that the rangefinder imposes. But film wasn´t for me. Being an enviromentally concerned person I was never comfortable with the chemicals and the amount of water needed to develop the film( I live in a small island where water is a valuable and scarse good), plus I was probably too used to the "inmediacy" (if the word exists at all) of digitall and I ended up selling the thing. I don´t enjoy shooting DSL´s, I do so simply because they allow me to use the specific lenses that I need at times (tilt/shift lenses and long tele..).

    And that is where the Ricoh thing comes into the ecuation...I am considering buying one of the Ricoh cameras. I tend to favour the GX mainly because of the lens. When I had the Leica the 35 Cron was nearly glued to the body and I found that focal length very comfortable(I used the 50 maybe only 20% of the time and the 90 was completely unused when I sold it, I simply couldn´t find the use for it). If I don´t go for the GRII is because I am afraid of the 28 FOV (for sure not an easy one to master..). On the other hand, I am a fast prime junkie, and do a lot of available light shooting, so the slight advantage of the GR keeps me undecided..

    A few questions i would like to ask:

    1- Using the step-zoom on the GX, can anyone tell me what the maximum apertures are for the 28-35-50 and 72 positions?

    2- A lot has been said about how the agressive noise reduction affects the JPEGs in the GRII (no-one seems to like them..). If I was to shoot JPEGs will the GX be a better option?

    3- I believe the longest shutter speed in both mdels is 3 min. Is that correct?

    4- Does using the 19mm adapter on the GX affect the lens apperture or does it work in the same way as the adapters for the GRII?

    As a curious note, it shocks me that everybody seems to find the GRII so expensive when here in Spain (at least where I live) the GX100 is 30 Euro more expensive...518€ for the GRII, 548€ for the GX100. Are this prices any good?

    Sorry for such a long post, and excuse my english, it´s a bit rusty..

    Thanks in advance for all your kindness and all the best to you all.

    Erik.

  2. #2
    wbrandsma
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Hi Erik, Welcome to Getdpi and hope you will enjoy it here as much as I do. I own a GX100 since last June and I might be able to answer some of your questions.

    1- 24mm: f2.5, 28mm: f2.7, 35mm: f2.9, 50mm: f3.5, 72mm: f4.4
    2- I can't comment on the noise in GX files and the GRD2 files as I don't own a GRD2. There is some noise reduction as well in the GX jpegs, especially color noise reduction. But nothing to worry about in my opinion.
    3- Correct, the longest shutterspeed is 180 sec/3 min.
    4- Using the adapter doesn't affect the lens aperture.

    A pricetag of €548 is really heavy. In the Netherlands you can already find a GX100 for €385,81 and a GX100 kit (including the EVF) for €406,39.

  3. #3
    VladimirV
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    I think Wouter answered all your questions so I only comment on the noise reduction of the GRD II files. This is higher than for GX100 and it also reduces luminance noise so gives the image a softer look and you lose details.

  4. #4
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Hi guys and thank for your quick response.

    Wouter, your images from the Gx100(as well as Mitch´s) have been an inspiration/revelation and have helped lean the balance towards this little gem.

    VladimirV, thanks for your kind response also, I am following your "Gr experience" blog since the first day I visited this forum, I myself plan on getting engaged with a long time "photo-a-week" project, so, keep it coming!!

    I thought I could "abuse" your kindness and make a few more questions that arose as I read your responses:

    1- I plan on doing quite a bit o night city/seascape photography so I wonder how you find the long exposure noise levels with this camera at 80-100 Iso?

    2- I recall reading somewhere that tha Gx has some kind of internal ND filter for difraction issues. Is there any kind of control or does it "kick in" just in an automatic mode? I live in the Canary Islands where we have a veery long summer that lasts most of the year with very bright sunlight and harsh photo-conditions during day time...

    3- I am most interested in the 1:1 aspect ratio. I am actually shooting a series of pictures in this aspect with my DSLR, but I honestly find it very uncomfortable to compose in 2:3 aspect, and am not being very succesfull with composition (needing lots of cropping..). This question might sound a bit stupid but...when composing in 1:1 , does the LCD screen just blackout the sides of the image to make it square or do you get some kind of aid as the framelines in an OV? Can you shoot 1:1 in RAW? Am I right assuming that the 1:1 images will use the whole height of the sensor making the files 2736x2736 (roughly 7,5 Mp, a higher count than what I am actually getting in that aspect ratio with my 30D...).

    As an aside, I am most interested in knowing which printers/ink/paper combinations you guys are using for the big BW prints you say you are getting from this camera.

    Once again, thanks indeed for your patience and kindness..

    Good light to all, Erik.

  5. #5
    gregg
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Hi Erik - Wouter has given you all the important tech info. I sure do hope you find a better price though...

    I too was/am a long time Leica user with a preference for 35mm lenses and B&W. I swapped a 35mm summicron for a Zeiss Biogon when they came out and really loved it.

    My fairly recent "switch" to using the GX100 as my carry-around camera has been great. I'm spending more time taking pictures and less time in the darkroom (and scanning, spotting, etc). My primary use of the Leica M6 was as a fast and silent backup to a Nikon D200 while on assignments. To the horror of Leica afficianatos, the GX100 has replaced the M6 in 100% of that use. I find it to be more "socially acceptable", that people feel less intimidated, to have this little camera in their face than they did the Leica.

    Finally, image quality is everything I would have expected (and often more) than my Leica with 400 speed Fuji Neopan. No doubt the lens construction of my Zeiss and Leica glass is amazing but the images out of the GX100, even at iso 800, continue to impress me.

    I played around with the B&W JPG setting on the GX100 but find that using the Color JPG setting and desaturating (HSL) in Lightroom is every bit as good for me as the RAW files.

    To emulate the shooting experience of the Leica I have two variations on "MY" settings:

    MY1 - 10m JPG Fine - Auto ISO 400 - Auto Focus - Aperture priority - Exp Comp -0.3ev - lens @ 24mm
    MY2 - 10m JPG Fine - Auto ISO 800 - Manual Focus @ 1m - Program - Exp Comp -0.3ev - lens @ 24mm

    MY1 is for general shooting and MY2 is for speed.

    I'm really glad I have the GX100 for the step zoom and, as someone who always considered themselves a "35mm lens guy", am surprised at how much I like the 24mm perspective.

    I think many here will agree with me that if you foresee using focal lengths other than 28mm, the GX100 is a great choice.

  6. #6
    VladimirV
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon-hunter View Post
    VladimirV, thanks for your kind response also, I am following your "Gr experience" blog since the first day I visited this forum, I myself plan on getting engaged with a long time "photo-a-week" project, so, keep it coming!!
    Thanks for your comments, glad you like my blog. I think a "picture-a-week" would've been better but I enjoy the challenge to come up with a picture every day.
    Looking forward to see your project, will surely help in giving me ideas .

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon-hunter View Post
    I thought I could "abuse" your kindness and make a few more questions that arose as I read your responses:

    1- I plan on doing quite a bit o night city/seascape photography so I wonder how you find the long exposure noise levels with this camera at 80-100 Iso?

    2- I recall reading somewhere that tha Gx has some kind of internal ND filter for difraction issues. Is there any kind of control or does it "kick in" just in an automatic mode? I live in the Canary Islands where we have a veery long summer that lasts most of the year with very bright sunlight and harsh photo-conditions during day time...

    3- I am most interested in the 1:1 aspect ratio. I am actually shooting a series of pictures in this aspect with my DSLR, but I honestly find it very uncomfortable to compose in 2:3 aspect, and am not being very succesfull with composition (needing lots of cropping..). This question might sound a bit stupid but...when composing in 1:1 , does the LCD screen just blackout the sides of the image to make it square or do you get some kind of aid as the framelines in an OV? Can you shoot 1:1 in RAW? Am I right assuming that the 1:1 images will use the whole height of the sensor making the files 2736x2736 (roughly 7,5 Mp, a higher count than what I am actually getting in that aspect ratio with my 30D...).
    1. There is no noise issue as the cameras automatically do a dark frame substraction so a 3min image will take over 6min to be written to the card. I personally do not like the dark frame substraction and find the images a bit soft for long exposures so if I can I use ISO400 for jpgs to have some noise in there. If you use RAW however you can stick to ISO80-100 as the images will be sharp enough.

    2. The ND filter kicks in automatically when using auto mode, unfortunatelly it is not possible to select it manually. Same as using f11 on the GRD I that only works in auto mode.

    3. The 1:1 aspect ratio wil blacken the LCD so you can compose with it in mind. The GRD II takes it in RAW and JPG while the GX100 only in JPG. Not sure about the size though as I don't have the GX100 or GRD II but used a friend's GRD II and the GX100 in a shop. My guess is that it will use the full height of the sensor and only crop the sides.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirV View Post
    Not sure about the size though as I don't have the GX100 or GRD II but used a friend's GRD II and the GX100 in a shop. My guess is that it will use the full height of the sensor and only crop the sides.
    You are correct - the crop is from the sides.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Thanks again guys..Im pretty much decided on the GX100..now I need to find a good offer.

    Best, Erik.

  9. #9
    wbrandsma
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Thank you Erik for your nice remarks. I wish you the best with finding a good deal.
    For long exposures I prefer the jpegs. With long exposures I think the RAW files are really too noisy and I don't want to figure out the best results with any noise reduction software. But I have had some remarkable images with long exposures like this campside in the Austrian mountains.

    60 seconds exposure


    15 seconds exposure


    4 seconds exposure

    Again good luck and I hope you will post some images soon.

  10. #10
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Gorgeous, Wouter!

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon-hunter View Post
    Thanks again guys..Im pretty much decided on the GX100..now I need to find a good offer.

    Best, Erik.

    Does Maggie get the blame again?
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    ...well, all of you get the blame...

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Does Maggie get the blame again?
    HI Bertie
    of course she does - it's ALWAYS Maggie's fault . . . and now she's building up the Ricoh I can see a serious case of GAS coming our way .

    While we're about it, can you tell me how to stop myself ringing up Robert white and ordering a GRD II for those 'little moments' indoors?

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    While we're about it, can you tell me how to stop myself ringing up Robert white and ordering a GRD II for those 'little moments' indoors?
    The usual advice, Jono, is to take a cold bath when things get on top of you
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    The usual advice, Jono, is to take a cold bath when things get on top of you
    Hmm - Maggie seems to be in the same trouble - does she get to have a cold bath too?

    Just this guy you know

  16. #16
    VladimirV
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    While we're about it, can you tell me how to stop myself ringing up Robert white and ordering a GRD II for those 'little moments' indoors?
    Best advice I can give is get rid of your phone
    Or just give in, we live only once

  17. #17
    helgipelgi
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Adorama has it at $619 right now :)

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    BEWARE!! "camera flu" of great virulence attacking users of this forum...continue posting in this place at your own risk....

    Difficult to translate, and probably means nothing in english, but we have a saying where I live: An ilness shared by many is only consolation for the stupid..

    Erik.

  19. #19
    Sun
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by helgipelgi View Post
    Adorama has it at $619 right now
    Ya I saw that a while ago.. though it's the demo model.. I'm not sure about that, not so keen on raising my chances of having to send the camera in for some kind of problem..

    On the other hand.. I was wondering if "demo model" is a cover-up for being able to sell the camera cheaper.. ?? I mean how many demo models do they have for sale?

    What do ya think?

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon-hunter View Post
    BEWARE!! "camera flu" of great virulence attacking users of this forum...continue posting in this place at your own risk....

    Difficult to translate, and probably means nothing in english, but we have a saying where I live: An ilness shared by many is only consolation for the stupid..

    Erik.
    Yes Yes - we're all DOOOMED!

    That saying however is excellent - even though it's quite hard for me to get my head around.
    However I'm not sure that it's apposite here - as the fact of a whole forum full of other sufferers, if not exactly a consolation, does at least make the ailment more enjoyable (although probably also more lethal!)

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Does the LCD on the GR-D II have a glass screen like the D-Lux 3 or is it a bare LCD membrane, like the Canon Powershots, etc...?

  22. #22
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon-hunter View Post
    ...As an aside, I am most interested in knowing which printers/ink/paper combinations you guys are using for the big BW prints you say you are getting from this camera.
    ...
    Thanks for the kind words.

    I'm printing with an Epson 9800 using the ImagePrint RIP on a an imitation Epson Luster paper sold in Thailand. Luster gives deep, rich blacks and, for large prints in fine. The only issue is some gloss differential in blown-out areas, which I often have. To eliminate this I have been using Renaissance Wax, which is also useful in protecting small prints from fingerprints.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  23. #23
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Does the LCD on the GR-D II have a glass screen like the D-Lux 3 or is it a bare LCD membrane, like the Canon Powershots, etc...?
    that sounds like a prospective customer question to me...

    baaahhhh

  24. #24
    helgipelgi
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun View Post
    Ya I saw that a while ago.. though it's the demo model.. I'm not sure about that, not so keen on raising my chances of having to send the camera in for some kind of problem..

    On the other hand.. I was wondering if "demo model" is a cover-up for being able to sell the camera cheaper.. ?? I mean how many demo models do they have for sale?

    What do ya think?
    Mine wasn't marked as a demo model, but I only saw this price available through Amazon though. It says "condition: New" and a special "low item price"

    http://www.amazon.com/Ricoh-Digital-...2494465&sr=8-1

    Seems suspicious though -- I'm going to send them an email

  25. #25
    helgipelgi
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Sent them an email and have been looking into this -- it seems that they're selling the demo models through Amazon without distinguishing them from the new ones with anything but a "low item price" tag. I'm sure they've got their asses covered in the small print somewhere (although I've yet to find it), but if I've bought a "demo model", whatever that means exactly, all the while thinking I was buying a brand new one, then I'm obviously not getting what I intended to buy.

    I've attached a screenshot from Amazon

  26. #26
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Yet anotther reason to stick with Popflash

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    that sounds like a prospective customer question to me...

    baaahhhh
    I've been a prospective customer since the damn thing came out!

    Still wondering about the LCD, BTW.

  28. #28
    helgipelgi
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Just an update if anyone's interested: I got an email back from Adorama, and they told me it is brand new and not a demo model.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Still no comment on the LCD.

    Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Still no comment on the LCD.

    Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?
    Maggie what was the question?
    Remember I've the GRD so cannot answer in regards to the GRD II

    Edit: I've screen protector on mine, I do not *think* it is glass tho, hard to tell through the silicone tho

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    Maggie what was the question?
    Remember I've the GRD so cannot answer in regards to the GRD II
    Does the LCD on the GR-D II have a glass screen like the D-Lux 3 or is it a bare LCD membrane, like the Canon Powershots, etc...?

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Does the LCD on the GR-D II have a glass screen like the D-Lux 3 or is it a bare LCD membrane, like the Canon Powershots, etc...?
    Cannot answer in regard GRD II, sorry

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    I saw your edit after I posted.

    Too bad there aren't any GR-D II owners here that could answer the question.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Does the LCD on the GR-D II have a glass screen like the D-Lux 3 or is it a bare LCD membrane, like the Canon Powershots, etc...?
    How can you tell?
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    How can you tell?
    Glass tends to be a bit colder to the touch perhaps?

  36. #36
    helgipelgi
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Haven't seen one in person yet, but it certainly doesn't look like glass in the product pictures.

    See page nine: http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/support/br...r_digital2.pdf

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Glass is a hard, smooth surface and the bare LCD is a soft, matte surface.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Glass is a hard, smooth surface and the bare LCD is a soft, matte surface.
    Seems to be glass, but I didn't press too hard
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    The D-Lux 3's screen is hard glass, so you could thwack it with a fingernail and you'd never know it. Is the Ricoh's equally robust? (It doesn't look like it photos.)

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    The D-Lux 3's screen is hard glass, so you could thwack it with a fingernail and you'd never know it. Is the Ricoh's equally robust? (It doesn't look like it photos.)
    I am not sure how hard you mean, but the screen on my GRD has proven very durable.'
    And useful, I find myself using the OVF less and less.

  41. #41
    helgipelgi
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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Maggie, you're grasping at straws here. Just give in already ;)

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Maggie,

    It seems reflective enough to be glass and it "sounds" like glass when I tap it, but I can't tell you with any certainty that it is indeed glass.

    Ciao,

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    The D-Lux 3's screen is hard glass, so you could thwack it with a fingernail and you'd never know it. Is the Ricoh's equally robust? (It doesn't look like it photos.)
    HI Maggie
    are you sure the D-lux 3 screen is glass? Mine tastes like plastic to me (I have this screen licking habit).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Maggie,

    It seems reflective enough to be glass and it "sounds" like glass when I tap it, but I can't tell you with any certainty that it is indeed glass.

    Ciao,
    OK, that sounds like it's pretty durable and if not actually glass, close enough.

    I got burned by the LCDs on my old Canons- one bump or scratch and they looked awful.

    Jono, silly rabbit- screens are for LOOKING not LICKING!

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Jono, silly rabbit- screens are for LOOKING not LICKING!
    Hi Maggie
    don't knock it if you haven't tried it!

    As for those Canon screens; they may seem vulnerable, but Emma's G7 was casually flipped into a deep pond by the dog. It didn't work at all...for two days...then it produced lovely milky pictures.

    After a week of was back to normal, and its worked ever since.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    "I can resist everything except temptation" - Oscar Wilde
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Another Ricoh decison thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    Thanks for the kind words.

    I'm printing with an Epson 9800 using the ImagePrint RIP on a an imitation Epson Luster paper sold in Thailand. Luster gives deep, rich blacks and, for large prints in fine. The only issue is some gloss differential in blown-out areas, which I often have. To eliminate this I have been using Renaissance Wax, which is also useful in protecting small prints from fingerprints.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
    Thanks for the info. It is impressive the amount of work that goes into a print, and the effort taken to achieve the desired look...as much as I liked the screen JPEG´s, I would kill to see some "good old" prints!!

    Erik.

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