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Thread: DP2 - a few final words

  1. #1
    Senior Member fordfanjpn's Avatar
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    DP2 - a few final words

    I'm sure that everyone is aware that there are already several people posting reviews and pics from the DP2, so I really don't think it's necessary for me to contribute to the noise level. So this will be my last word on the camera itself. I will of course continue to post pics that I like, and I'd be happy to answer any specific questions if I can, but I do think it's time to get on with what I bought the camera for in the first place.

    First the bad. The camera eats batteries, possibly even worse than the DP1, but I'll have to see how it goes in that respect. I managed to drain the first fully-charged battery in only 86 shots. Not good. However, I was using the LCD more than I normally would while I was getting used to the camera, so that may have had some impact on battery life. Fortunately I have a few batteries, so I'm not too concerned.

    The LCD is, as far as I can tell, exactly the same as on the DP1. I think this is going to be a problem for people who rely on the LCD for manual focusing. Especially with the lens wide open. Personally, I only use the LCD to change settings or for shooting close ups, and for the latter, I plan on trying to use a loupe for focusing, if it seems to be necessary. Otherwise, I generally keep the LCD turned off.

    I did find what may be a bug in the firmware. A few times when activating the Quick Setup menus, all I got was some colored squares on the screen, with no menu items. All I had to do was go back to shooting mode and then reactivate the Quick Menus, but there does seem to be something strange going on there. Not a big deal though, so I'm not worried about it.

    One thing that's not the camera's fault is that the new SPP seems to apply a buttload of noise reduction to high ISO shots. Much more than I'd like. And AFAIK, there is no way to control that. Carl Rytterfalk mentions this on his website. This is something I hope Sigma will address in the not-too-distant future. I'm sure that we'll eventually be able to process the DP2 raw files in other converters, but I prefer the results out of SPP, minus the heavy-handed noise reduction.

    On the plus side, other than the few little niggles above, I am completely happy with the camera. While it certainly can't compare to a DSLR in terms of speed of performance, I'm finding it to be significantly faster to use than the DP1, and that's all I wanted or expected. The Quick Settings menus make a big difference in ease of operation so it's pretty much no longer necessary to go into the menus themselves once you have the camera set up the way you want it. And the shot-to-shot speed is much better.

    Picture quality is excellent, maybe even better than the DP1. And ISO 1600 will be completely usable for me since I intend to shoot primarily for B&W. I know that some people have complained about a green cast, but I'm not seeing that. Maybe those people haven't figure out what WB is. In any case, I have no complaints in that area.

    In manual focus mode, the focus dial seems to be tighter and harder to turn accidentally. It is harder to guesstimate focus distance with the lens wide open, but that's a personal problem, and not the camera's fault.

    The Voigtlander 40mm viewfinder is working very well for me, and seems to be quite accurate, although I haven't actually tested that to be sure. And the roughly 42mm effective focal length of the new lens seems to suit me quite well.

    Overall I am very pleased and excited about this camera and am looking forward to shooting with it from now on. I have temporarily retired the DP1, and found that the Ricoh lens cover that I adapted for the DP1 works perfectly on the DP2, so that's how I'll be carrying it for the most part. I did pick up a couple of the adapter tubes so I can use a protection filter or close up lenses.

    I have probably forgotten a few things, but for the most part, I'm happy camper. Now it's time to take some pics.

    Bill

  2. #2
    ddk
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    How's AF speed and accuracy compared to DP1?

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    Senior Member fordfanjpn's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    How's AF speed and accuracy compared to DP1?
    I haven't actually measured it, but as far as I can tell, it's the same. I've never had any problems with the DP1 AF accuracy, as long as I make sure it's focusing where I want it to, but it is a tad slow. Especially if you're used to using a DSLR, in which case it will seem like it's taking forever to lock in. When I'm using AF, which is often, I've sort of trained myself to expect a delay before focus locks in and I can take a shot. It's not really conducive to fast street shooting, but you can always switch to MF for that.

    Bill

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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    another question about the AF -- can the DP2 actually find focus in low light situations?

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Sigma could up their game and apply a new firmware to improve these same things on the DP1.

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    Senior Member fordfanjpn's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    another question about the AF -- can the DP2 actually find focus in low light situations?
    Honestly - no.

    Bill

  7. #7
    ddk
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    I haven't actually measured it, but as far as I can tell, it's the same. I've never had any problems with the DP1 AF accuracy, as long as I make sure it's focusing where I want it to, but it is a tad slow. Especially if you're used to using a DSLR, in which case it will seem like it's taking forever to lock in. When I'm using AF, which is often, I've sort of trained myself to expect a delay before focus locks in and I can take a shot. It's not really conducive to fast street shooting, but you can always switch to MF for that.

    Bill
    Thanks Bill.

  8. #8
    Caleb
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    I'm surprised to read that SPP is applying any settings at all to the images that can't be turned off. How objectionable do you find the noise-reduction? Is there any evidence that there is noise-reduction being applied to low-ISO images?

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    Senior Member fordfanjpn's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    I'm surprised to read that SPP is applying any settings at all to the images that can't be turned off. How objectionable do you find the noise-reduction? Is there any evidence that there is noise-reduction being applied to low-ISO images?
    I can't really see it applying any noise reduction to low ISO shots, but when you open a high ISO shot and watch SPP process it, it applies a boat-load of noise reduction, enough to smear the image a bit, resulting in a slight loss of sharpness. It would be much better if there was either no noise reduction at all, or it was controllable by the user. Unfortunately, that is not the case. I hope this is something they will address soon as I plan to use ISO 800 and 1600 quite a lot and I don't want SPP smoothing everything out as it sees fit.

    Bill

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    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    another question about the AF -- can the DP2 actually find focus in low light situations?
    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    Honestly - no.
    Not really what I wanted to hear but many thanks for the candid reply. I had high hopes for the DP2 because of the 41mm-e lens. Now I guess I'm back to waiting for the Panasonic 20/1.7 and a genuinely Micro 4/3rds body.

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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    The DP1 really was a good idea, for the most part. I wonder why Sigma is dragging it's feet with this idea?

    I think it should have had the best LCD available, since there is no viewfinder. Something like the D90,D300 etc. and quick focus speed - quick everything.

    It seems a bit odd to release model two and not learn from the previous models short comings, but maybe Sigma just doesn't have the cash for [email protected]

    I'm afraid Olympus and Panasonic are going to make it obsolete very quickly, when Sigma had the chance to take at least a years worth of lead in this market.

    Of course they could be taking their time on purpose, so as to milk the customers for up grades, every year or so, like the rest of the camera makers have been doing, for the past ten years.

    That could be it, but I think Olympus/Panasonic is going to put a stick in their spokes, in the next few months.

    On the other hand, what do I know, other than I was going to buy the Dp1 when it came out but went for the GRD2 instead, because it sounded like a better camera all the way around, except for sensor size.

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    I've posted this comment before, but I consider the DP2 the third generation product, with the DP1 having two generations: the one they gave up on after a year and the redesigned one they finally released. It's astonishing to me that the latest product is so firmly rooted in the failures of the past. Put a faster lens on the big sensor and the accompanying shallow depth of field cries out for an excellent LCD, especially with no optical VF.

    I was first on the list to get one, but I've given up on wanting one at this point... I just don't see any compelling reason to do so. Sigma really missed the boat on this!

    Cheers,

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    I don't think Sigma missed anything. The camera is clearly designed for users that want to take their time and work in a variety of ways. I have yet to feel limited with the DP-1.

    There ain't nothing in life as good as we want it to be.
    With a CV finder, screen off and manual focus...well, it really doesn't get any better.
    There's 2 ways to approach the process with the DP cameras....

    1....deal with the camera....
    2....image quality.
    Those that deal with the camera are destined to sell the camera and miss what it does...
    Those that breathe the IQ, well....nuff said. The shortcomings are set aside and they enjoy image making.
    Sigma makes everything clear in their advertising. The DP-1 does everything they said it would do and...it does everything I want it to do.

    I'll have the DP-2 in about 8 hours and will test it on the street first thing.....
    I will post how I feel the camera works with my vision over the weekend......

    8 hours 4 minutes.......and counting....

  14. #14
    ddk
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    I've posted this comment before, but I consider the DP2 the third generation product, with the DP1 having two generations: the one they gave up on after a year and the redesigned one they finally released. It's astonishing to me that the latest product is so firmly rooted in the failures of the past. Put a faster lens on the big sensor and the accompanying shallow depth of field cries out for an excellent LCD, especially with no optical VF.

    I was first on the list to get one, but I've given up on wanting one at this point... I just don't see any compelling reason to do so. Sigma really missed the boat on this!

    Cheers,
    2nd rate bodies isn't something new for Sigma, you'd know if you owned any of their cameras. They all had/have horrible AF systems, small finders, and the worst ergonomics in the business. They must think that having the Faveon sensor is enough to for the users to put up with anything, so the DP-2 is no surprise, just another from the same family.

  15. #15
    nei1
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    If you have time Id be interested to see if the sensor still gives that "fragile,with care"red stamp when shooting a bright light,thanks......Neil.

    I imagine it will,wont change my opinion of the camera,just out of interest.

  16. #16
    ddk
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    I don't think Sigma missed anything. The camera is clearly designed for users that want to take their time and work in a variety of ways. I have yet to feel limited with the DP-1.

    There ain't nothing in life as good as we want it to be.
    With a CV finder, screen off and manual focus...well, it really doesn't get any better.
    There's 2 ways to approach the process with the DP cameras....

    1....deal with the camera....
    2....image quality.
    Those that deal with the camera are destined to sell the camera and miss what it does...
    Those that breathe the IQ, well....nuff said. The shortcomings are set aside and they enjoy image making.
    Sigma makes everything clear in their advertising. The DP-1 does everything they said it would do and...it does everything I want it to do.

    I'll have the DP-2 in about 8 hours and will test it on the street first thing.....
    I will post how I feel the camera works with my vision over the weekend......

    8 hours 4 minutes.......and counting....
    Are you saying that expecting a camera to handle better than a brick makes one less of photographer or do you think if one is asking too much for a tool that's a little more responsive than an American car of the 80s?

    IQ is relative, compared to other small sensored p&s cameras the DP1 is like the one eyed king in the land of the blind, even then what's the point if the body is getting in the way? I'm not alone in feeling this way, many who used the DP1 have mentioned the same shortcomings. Fortunately for Sigma there's another group like you who enjoy this camera and are willing to put up with its shortcomings, but that doesn't make the rest of us incompetent.

    In any case I look forward to your posts on the DP2.

    with kind rgds,

  17. #17
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Whenever I get a good image with one of my cameras other than the DP1 I'm always left wondering how it would have looked if I had used the DP1. Trouble is the reason I may not have taken it with the DP1 is the virtually useless screen. If the DP2 had an improved screen I would have bought it but since it hasn't I will just continue to crop while I wait for the new, exquisite looking, Micro 4/3rds Olympus to come out.

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Are you saying that expecting a camera to handle better than a brick makes one less of photographer or do you think if one is asking too much for a tool that's a little more responsive than an American car of the 80s?

    IQ is relative, compared to other small sensored p&s cameras the DP1 is like the one eyed king in the land of the blind, even then what's the point if the body is getting in the way? I'm not alone in feeling this way, many who used the DP1 have mentioned the same shortcomings. Fortunately for Sigma there's another group like you who enjoy this camera and are willing to put up with its shortcomings, but that doesn't make the rest of us incompetent.

    In any case I look forward to your posts on the DP2.

    with kind rgds,
    It's not my intention to say that anyone is incompetent. What I mean is that it's about compromise. Some can and some can't.

    I got the GX-200 because I felt that the interface was about as good as it gets. Unfortunately, the IQ didn't match the interface, for me. It's the exact opposite as with the DP cameras.

    I choose to accept and get past the shortcomings because I love the IQ and the way the camera works with my vision. I had 2 M8's and LOVE M CAMERAS......but I could not compromise and sold them.....

    So, don't take offense to my words.
    It took me 8 months or so to do the DP-1 because I kept reading words and reading images, both good and bad. The DP-2 is a no brainer for me. If it just had a different focal length, I'd be a happy camper....

    "One man's heaven, is another man's hell."

  19. #19
    nei1
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    If you have a thoughtful pace to your photography there seems no point in buying a really speedy camera and vice versa,but a camera being slow is no advantage whatsover and there will be times when it not being ready to take another shot will disapoint you.Problems with the screen,that dreadful red mosaic from a bright light all pale to almost insignificance when you come to the sensor which is about as natural a rendition of life that digital is ever going to have.That is what all the fuss is about,if its a brick so be it........Neil.
    Last edited by nei1; 2nd May 2009 at 03:39.

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    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: DP2 - a few final words

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    If you have a thoughtful pace to your photography there seems no point in buying a really speedy camera and vice versa,but a camera being slow is no advantage whatsover and there will be times when it not being ready to take another shot will disapoint you.Problems with the screen,that dreadful red mosaic from a bright light all pale to almost insignificance when you come to the sensor which is about as natural a rendition of life that digital is ever going to have.That is what all the fuss is about,if its a brick so be it........Neil.
    That sums it up nicely for me as well.

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