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Thread: RAW conversion and pp techniques

  1. #51
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    It doesn't surprise me I missed the boat yet again. Do I hear violins in the background?

  2. #52
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Sorry I'm late to the party...

    LightZone used here - hope you like it!



    Kind Regards

    Brian

  3. #53
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Nice!

    Is that the platinum toning?

  4. #54
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    It's based on the platinum style, but I selected two different colours for the highlight and shadow tones...

    I wanted to highlight the steps going down to the river, and the building above without introducing more noise. I'm quite happy with the final result.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  5. #55
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Brian,
    I like your version. Very nicely done.

  6. #56
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Brian, you've done the best job around in the boat area, for sure.

    This particular photo, I think, addresses quite well one of the main challenges of small sensor cameras - dynamic range. I surely could have done better, but I think it's nearly impossible to get the both dark area around the water to be noise free (and visible) and keep the dramatic sky. But this exercise showed how much can be achieved despite of this. So thanks a lot to everybody. IT's been a great starting point for learning new techniques.

  7. #57
    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    I surely could have done better, but I think it's nearly impossible to get the both dark area around the water to be noise free (and visible) and keep the dramatic sky. But this exercise showed how much can be achieved despite of this. So thanks a lot to everybody. IT's been a great starting point for learning new techniques.
    I think your exposure was just fine. If you would have pushed the histogram to the right, you would have blown the sky. The only thing you could have done is to put the camera on a tripod, take 2 (or more) exposures, and then blended the exposures. That is not always possible.

  8. #58
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    It's based on the platinum style, but I selected two different colours for the highlight and shadow tones...
    It looks really great!

  9. #59
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry I'm late to the party...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    LightZone used here - hope you like it!



    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Really Lovely Will
    Great Rendition
    Cheers! H

  10. #60
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your comments

    Sizifo, thanks for your thoughts... I agree, the sky could be better - perhaps I'll try again.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  11. #61
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Have created a gallery with all the images at http://gallery.mac.com/vid33#100008&...or=black&sel=0 , so they can be seen side by side. Just an excuse to mess with Aperture web functions really, and not do what I'm supposed to be doing. You have to say the web gallery looks cool.

    Now, see that little upload button. Click on on it to upload tho original, it won't take but a few seconds Is there any particular reason I'm missing why people are not willing to do this? Hope I'm not being politically incorrect.

    Could actually make this into a useful little page by adding a summary of the pp method to each image.

  12. #62
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your comments

    Sizifo, thanks for your thoughts... I agree, the sky could be better - perhaps I'll try again.

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    The sky looks good in my opinion, just the bit around the boat looks great.

    Incidentally, this is where the photo was taken. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...04324&t=h&z=18 I was standing on the side of the canal at hollandischer brook.

    This is a historic part of the hamburg harbor with old warehouses (speicherstadt). The small house in the photo is from that period. The stuff in the background is part of a huge development project, that's supposed to make this part of city into something like the docklands in London. The other dngs I uploaded are all from the same area.

  13. #63
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Cool gallery!!

    One photo, many minds!

  14. #64
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    A slight case of new toy syndrome with Nik and TIffen plug-ins; this one went through a big stack of filters, but it didn't do my usual CS3-Lightroom-CS3 hopscotch.

    Thomas
    Last edited by thomasl.se; 4th May 2009 at 15:47.

  15. #65
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    I like the warmth of your version Thomas.

    sizifo that gallery is a really nice idea, thanks for putting it up.

  16. #66
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Cheers, Will.

    For the purpose of demonstrating the possibilities to bring back a sky from white in pp, I should just as well have cranked up the graudated neutral density filter on the sky; while at it, so to speak.

    Thanks sizifo for the idea and the gallery; I hope more people will participate, maybe another pic another round.

    Thomas

  17. #67
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Some final images to prove how much more familiar I'm with Aperture now than when this thread started. I'm beginning to be semi-happy with the results. One can do a lot with this program, even without the ability of local adjustments, just takes some work. Also got photoshop trial. Immensely powerful program, but no results yet that I want to share.

    Some points:

    Does it matter whether the image imported into photoshop is 8bit or 16bit tiff?

    Unsharp mask in photoshop just doesn't seem to do as good a job as the sharpening tools in Aperture. I really like the Aperture controls; they seem to be tied in with the raw processing engine. Any opinions on the sharpening? You can take a close up look by downloading the full sized jpegs of the above photos from http://gallery.mac.com/vid33#gallery.
    Last edited by sizifo; 4th April 2009 at 12:10.

  18. #68
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Those both look great.

  19. #69
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    The composition is not what I'm after here, just the conversion from RAW and pp refinement. Composition could perhaps be looked at another time.
    Will, what exactly did you have in mind here? Just people posting images, with comments about composition, or something more clever?

    Here are some less boring takes on the scene used in this thread, on a different day. Although I've had enough of this particular motif. Wouldn't be bad to move on to some other exercise in the near future.
    Last edited by sizifo; 4th April 2009 at 12:10.

  20. #70
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    sizifo I'm happy enough to have initiated this pp comparison thread which, with your help, has turned out to be really interesting. I'm not sure how we could do a composition thread as easily.

  21. #71
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Sizifo,

    It's better to start with 16 bit images in Photoshop. They have more information, a greater range of colors and shades. This becomes important when you make adjustments to the image. The 8 bit images will tend to posterization of color and tone when stretched by adjustments. Some people work with 16 bit initially to prevent posterization and then will save the image in 8 bit to save space on their disc. In the past, some of the tools in PS were not available to 16 bit, but that is no longer a problem. If your computer has enough storage and speed, I'd suggest using 16 bit.
    Others know more about this than I do.

    Best,

    Mitchell

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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    SIZIFO
    Lovely.....
    Your Second shot PP looks great / Fab crop & colors

  23. #73
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Thanks Michell. Does anybody know what the bitdepth of the ricoh raw file is? This piece of information seems to be hard to come by. From what I could gather it's more than 8, but definitely less than 16.

    In any case, I thought that difference would be minimal. But from what you say, even if the initial file is 8 bit, upgrading it to 16 bit can make a difference for photoshop adjustments.

    My hard drive will need an upgrade soon.

  24. #74
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    sizifo I'm happy enough to have initiated this pp comparison thread which, with your help, has turned out to be really interesting. I'm not sure how we could do a composition thread as easily.
    OK. I assumed from the message that you had something in mind. Absolutely agree that this thread was very interesting and useful.

    Maybe a thread meant for critical comments would be useful. People on this forum are very nice, so it's quite hard to get criticized. I've gotten quite worried posting photos which get no reaction. Likely because they are no good, but I really wouldn't mind negative comments - constructive ones of course . On a different note, we also don't have anything like the "Fun time" thread in the Leica M section.

  25. #75
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    SIZIFO
    Lovely.....
    Your Second shot PP looks great / Fab crop & colors
    Thanks. I'm starting to really enjoy using Aperture.

    The day was a bit drab, and there were no clouds like in the pp photo to make the first shot more interesting.

  26. #76
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    I'm not sure what the raw bit depth of the Ricoh is, probably 14, but I'm confident it's more than 8.

    The bit depth refers to how many different gradations of tones or colors the camera is recording. The higher the number of bits the more colors and tones available in the file.

    It won't help converting an 8 bit image to 16 because the wide range of 16 bit tones and colors were simply not recorded on the 8 bit image.

    In photoshop, when, for instance, you lighten a dark area of an image, you are actually stretching an area of the information available in the file. With 8 bit you are likely to spread the info so thin that you see gaps between color or tone gradations, i.e., posterization.

    I hope this helps. I'm no expert. If your interested I'd search the Leica Forum or Wikapedia for further explanation.

    Best,

    Mitchell

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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell View Post
    I'm not sure what the raw bit depth of the Ricoh is, probably 14, but I'm confident it's more than 8.

    The bit depth refers to how many different gradations of tones or colors the camera is recording. The higher the number of bits the more colors and tones available in the file.

    It won't help converting an 8 bit image to 16 because the wide range of 16 bit tones and colors were simply not recorded on the 8 bit image.
    Sorry for the technical nitpicking. Clearly converting 8 to 16 wins you nothing. My point was that when making adjustments there still can be a difference in principle, because the adjustment algorithm could introduce more information than can be held in 8bits. In other words, I assumed that the 16 bit version of the algorithm could be more powerful than the 8 bit version, in addition to the fact that you don't want to lose the extra bits from the raw file by working in 8 bits.

  28. #78
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    I see what you mean. I don't know the answer.

    I use Lightroom so work only with the raw unless I export as 16 bit tiff to Photoshop. I no longer see the need to use 8 bit.

    Best,

    Mitchell

  29. #79
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    8 bit files are half the size, and many key filters aren't available at 16 bit. There are printing issues too. I guess most professional flows I hear about are processing (developing/RAW converting) files at 16 bit then converting to 8 for retouching and output. I just did a job where I converted to 8 bit earlier in the process than usual for me directly after ACR and it made a week of retouching and stuff much easier on my system, with no discernible difference in quality.

  30. #80
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Bit late to this game but..........a little Lightzoning........

  31. #81
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Interesting, a bit like an old postcard. Though personally I think monochrome suits this photo better.

  32. #82
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    Re: RAW conversion and pp techniques

    Here's my effort:


    Three conversions in SilkyPix. Base image was at +2 EV, max contrast, using the "Monochrome 2" Color setting. Sky was done at 0.7 EV with about 1.6 Contrast, and finally a conversion for the shadows, same as the Base image but with "Contrast center" on 0.38 instead of 0.42.

    I then blended these in Photoshop using layer masks (done with gradients and with the Brush tool).

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