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Thread: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

  1. #1
    ddk
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    Question GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    I've had this issue since I bought the GRDII and was told by the dealer that its normal, but I'm wondering now. My GRDI has almost no shutter lag but with the GRDII there's always a delay which means that I lose a certain no. of shots. I'd like to know if any of you have the same issue or is it just my camera?

  2. #2
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    I've had this issue since I bought the GRDII and was told by the dealer that its normal, but I'm wondering now. My GRDI has almost no shutter lag but with the GRDII there's always a delay which means that I lose a certain no. of shots. I'd like to know if any of you have the same issue or is it just my camera?
    I suppose you mean lag after the camera has focused?

    If so, there should be no noticeable lag at all...

    The two cameras do have different AF qualities, but the AF is not amazing, as you would expect from such a small camera. In my case, if I want instantaneous response I put everything into manual, including exposure. Otherwise, if there is time to compose, half press, AF, etc. can be handy.

    I'm increasingly using the GRDII in all manual. Part of the reason is that the recent firmware of the GRDII (but NOT I), has a very useful feature that the leftmost button of the 4 circular buttons can be used to meter. This, together with the fact that spot is more central than for the GRDI, and the depth of field preview, makes the GRDII a complete joy to use in all manual mode. GRDI less so.

  3. #3
    ddk
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    I suppose you mean lag after the camera has focused?

    If so, there should be no noticeable lag at all...
    Yes, well at least I think after the camera has focused, with the GRD 1, its really all in one motion, point and shoot, I realize that they changed the AF system in #2 and now its more like point, acquire and then shoot, still I find too long a gap from the time I press the button and the time that the shutter actually activates. I often find that the subject has left the frame by the time the shutter is released. Never had and still don't have this problem with GRD 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    The two cameras do have different AF qualities, but the AF is not amazing, as you would expect from such a small camera. In my case, if I want instantaneous response I put everything into manual, including exposure. Otherwise, if there is time to compose, half press, AF, etc. can be handy.

    I'm increasingly using the GRDII in all manual. Part of the reason is that the recent firmware of the GRDII (but NOT I), has a very useful feature that the leftmost button of the 4 circular buttons can be used to meter. This, together with the fact that spot is more central than for the GRDI, and the depth of field preview, makes the GRDII a complete joy to use in all manual mode. GRDI less so.
    Yes, I use it in MF or snap mode most of the time too, not because I want to but in AF, unlike GRD1, its just not responsive enough. To be honest, I want fast AF in a small camera, otherwise I use my dslrs when I want better quality and manual functions. Still, the GRD is one of my all time favorite cameras.

  4. #4
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    I do not have a GRD, I have a GRDII and a GX200. No Noticeable shuttle lag in either camera. Contact either Adorama or Pop Flash about repairs. You can also contact Ricoh directly through their website. I bought my GRDII stateside, killed it in Japan and Ricoh offered to repair it under warranty, in Japan. You might have to pay shipping but Ricoh in Japan is the best customer service I have seen of any company, bar none. There was a couple days lag between my initial email contact and their response, but rapid replies after that.

  5. #5
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post

    ... the recent firmware of the GRDII (but NOT I), has a very useful feature that the leftmost button of the 4 circular buttons can be used to meter.
    I keep my GRDII completely current on sw -- know nothing about the metering?!? Just checked the camera with the top dial set to 'M' and the leftmost button is user selectable. (I have it set to switch between color and B&W.)

    Is there a user setting you selected to assign to the 'Fn' button (leftmost) for the metering?

  6. #6
    VladimirV
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    This is from my GX200 review (http://ricohgrdiary.wordpress.com/20...review-part-2/) but the same applies for the GRD II:

    "Now you might have noticed from the pictures of the 3 GX cameras that the GX200 misses the phase detection AF found on the older models. This is not only a problem with the appearance of the camera but a big problem with the speed when focusing. Where the GX100 was very fast to focus, the GX200 is not as reliable and exhibits the same issue like the R10 and GRD II with the screen freeze. This means every time you half press the shutter button the screen (and EVF) will freeze while the camera tries to focus. This was a major problem and the biggest issue I had with the R10 and is an even bigger issue here considering that this is a camera aimed at enthusiasts. Same as the GRD II and R10, not only will the screen freeze but the camera won’t take the picture till it has focus confirmation or failed completely to focus. Again this is a major problem for me and something that needs to be fixed if possible with a firmware update.

    Let me put this in perspective, you stand by a road and want to take a picture of a passing car. You see the car coming towards you, half press the shutter to focus on it, the screen freezes for a moment and when you see again if the camera has locked the focus, the car is already out of your frame. This has caused me a lot of headache and was very annoying at times although I already knew about it from the GRD II, which does not get used much exactly because of this behaviour. It is not excusable for a serious compact to exhibit this problem, not even if other cameras like the Sigma DP1 and Panasonic LX3 show the same problem when focusing. As I mentioned in my R10 review, it looks to me like it is a problem with the contrast detection AF which utilizes the sensor to focus. So not only is the GX200 slower to focus than the GX100, which has the phase detection AF, it also freezes your screen long enough for you to miss the decisive moment. The focus priority instead of shutter priority does not help either and so using AF will be a consideration for non moving objects very soon. Another problem with the AF that I noticed while doing the comparison is that if you focus on the sky, the GRD I, GX and GX100 with phase detection manage to focus on infinity where the GX200 and the other cameras without phase detection can’t and fail to focus. The strange thing is that the Panasonic LC1 and Nikon D70 have exactly the same problem to achieve focus and both use phase detection.

    This is the biggest problem with the GX200 but, like on the R10, it can be worked around with by using Snap focus or using Manual Focus. This is not always a good solution however but it at least kind of makes up for this shortcoming.
    The snap focus is one of the best things about Ricoh cameras since it takes advantage of the big depth of field the sensors have and pre-sets the focus to 2.5m. This means you get a sharp picture from 2.5m to almost infinity. This method also helps to eliminate the auto focus lag and together with the none existent shutter lag makes this the preferred mode for street photography. It works very well in practice, as long as you don’t require the focus to be much closer than 2m, and you can assign it to one of the Fn buttons for fast switching between normal AF and Snap."

    You have to use Snap focus to get no shutter lag with the GRD II and then it works fine.

  7. #7
    ddk
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    Thanks Vladimir, you explained the problem perfectly. Yes, I do use Snap mode often with GRD2 but like you mentioned it limits its use, fortunately I kept my GRD which I use a lot more than the newer camera. The only thing that I prefer with GRD2 is its raw write speed, otherwise I find the GRD the better camera, specially the IQ.

  8. #8
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    thank you both. you just saved me from wishing i had a 200 for the write speed. i'm really finding the 100 a great camera in most cases. probably no better street shooter. and the macro outstanding. it really will fit in a shirt pocket.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

  9. #9
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    Re: GRDI vs GRDII Shutter Lag

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    I keep my GRDII completely current on sw -- know nothing about the metering?!? Just checked the camera with the top dial set to 'M' and the leftmost button is user selectable. (I have it set to switch between color and B&W.)

    Is there a user setting you selected to assign to the 'Fn' button (leftmost) for the metering?
    It's the "M mode quick set option" - pressing the fn button sets the appropriate shutter or aperture, depending on what option you choose. There's also a program option.

    I set the aperture, and the shutter speed gets set by pressing fn.

    The way I've been photographing recently is to decide what in the frame I want to meter as "average grey" (which happens not to be 18% btw), and meter off that. The fact the metering on GRDII is more central than on GRDI is a big plus.

    If I want to meter plus/minus whatever number of stops from this, one stop is three clicks on the dials. And remember that an object 2.5-3 stops brighter blows the highlights.

    It has quickly become second nature.

    Regarding the focusing, I personally don't find the problems VladimirV and ddk describe bothersome. (Not that I don't understand that they can be for others). The reason is that if I want to really try and catch the moment, no compact AF is fast enough, and the best thing is to use the huge dof and zone focus (I also don't use snap, but manual focus, not to mess up things close by). On the other hand, for slower subjects the lag doesn't matter. And inbetween scenarios have been rare in my case.

    I'm not sure, but could it be that on the GRDI the AF override is better? I.e. that the AF is not finished anyway, but the shot is taken - in which case the purpose of AF is sort of defeated.

    In any case, I do agree that the GRDI solution is better (although the whole issue makes no difference to my shooting).

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