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Thread: With a little help from my friends...

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    With a little help from my friends...

    First off.... Thanks to all for the concerns about the DP1 selling issue.

    I love the DP1 and it is truely a wonderful camera.
    My only issue is/has been, the FOV. At 28mm, it's to wide
    for my inner vision. I have used Leica M's with a 35mm for
    4 1/2 decades. Old I know....So the idea of a EP1 with the
    17 and finder gets to my very essence.
    I long for the comfort in those lost but not forgotten moments.

    Am I thinking strait or am I acting out of impulse?
    I have struggled since the beginning of the digital revolution
    with this issue. Now at last, the solution seems to be at hand.
    I will not sacrifice IQ thus the DP1......So....
    Any help from my friends would be appreciated......
    Thanks in advance.....Don

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    I feel a bit like a heretic saying this, but I think many if not most of the current camera offerings can produce wonderful images. The subtle distinctions between them make for some interesting discussion, but fantastic images are made with all of them. With that in mind, I propose that one can get to image-making nirvana with any of them.

    However, if the camera you have is feeling more like a barrier than a passport, it might be time for a change. The new equipment will keep you busy for a short time while you get used to it, but ultimately it will drop you right back where you started. Which is (IMHO) that every day is a blank page and filling it with your personal vision is far more difficult and complicated than buying a new camera.

    Good luck with your decision!
    Tim

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Tim, Thanks...agreed but to a point.
    Sucessful image making is about having
    a formula. My visual part is with a 35mm
    FOV. I can frame exactly without a camera...
    Then when framing with the finder...
    it has to be where I see...no intrusion from
    the camera....
    I'm not saying I can't do this with other len combos but
    my preference is my natural vision.
    The 28mm is wider than I prefer and forces
    compromise....unacceptable to me.
    I was hoping the DP2 would work for me but
    didn't because it was too long.....
    Anyway.... Thanks for the input....
    Don

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    I have the DP1/DP2 and the E-P1. The Olympus is not the same as the DP cameras simply because the sensors are different. The Foveon sensor is unique and I have yet to see its qualities in any other camera sensor. However, the E-P1 is more fun and far easier to use than the DPs. The stock 14-42mm lens is good but not great (I have the 17mm coming today). However, with an adapter I absolutely love to use my Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm lens. Also great but drawing less love is the Zeiss Biogon 35mm lens. The issue with these is that their focal lengths are doubled, which won't work for your needs.

    I will keep my DP cameras, but to be honest I don't know how much I will use them. If I had more time for photography I would use them more, but for now the E-P1 is perfect for me since it can have great IQ yet offers flexibility and compactness. To my mind there is nothing else like it out there right now.

    BTW 28mm is a little bit wide for me too. I got used to it because of my Ricoh GRD2 but for some reason I could not get used to the DP1 28mm focal length. The responsiveness and macro capabilities of the Ricoh helped.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    I can certainly understand that and it makes perfect sense. I simply want to relate my own defense against the rolling waves of "urge to buy" that overtake me from time to time. A little dose of devil's advocate.

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Andrew.....
    Key reply!
    The advantage of changing a lens is
    monumental!
    Please tell me how the IQ really compares. I adore
    the ORGANIC quality the DP1 produces and
    will not want to loose that....
    Don

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Tim,
    There definately exist that URGE to buy but
    justified after years of waiting/longing for
    the camera that will support my vision.
    My heart was broken with 2 M8's 2 different
    times..... I actually felt betrayed....but that's
    another story we need not rehash here.
    Don

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Like I said, the Foveon sensor is unique and you won't get it with the E-P1. That's why as little as I might use the DP cameras I'll keep them.

    And I'm not an IQ pixel peeper. As you can see from Flickr photos I'm not always concerned with pixel perfection : ) I'm more of a gestalt kind of guy with my photography. Both cameras work well in that regard. But the DPs are terrific clean B&W cameras with their dynamic range.

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Roger that. The B&W from the DP1 is wonderful.
    I could care less about color images.
    So are you seeing a marked difference between
    the Sigma and the Oly?
    That concerns me .....don

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Gotta question....
    Does the EP1 have a focus scale on the screen
    so you can set Hyper Focal Distance etc?

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    Gotta question....
    Does the EP1 have a focus scale on the screen
    so you can set Hyper Focal Distance etc?
    Not that I found, but it sure needs one.

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Not that I found, but it sure needs one.
    WHAT!?
    That is unacceptable and stops me in my tracks
    instantly......

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Don, I don't know if the EP1 is really going to be to your liking or not. For moving subjects, I found it, in all honesty, worthless. I haven't really said anything, because there are a lot of people around here that are really enthusiastic about The EP1, as I was, when it was first announced, and I didn't want to rub people the wrong way.


    There is one good thing that came out of my EP1 experience and that was that I think I finally came to my senses I've spent thousands of dollars over the past several years, trying to get something that I could use for everything and at the same time, be a great little street camera. I always seemed to come up short, in one area or another.

    My personal revelation is that there is no silver bullet, no swiss army knife/jack of all trades. No small sized body to put in my pocket, that will do everything from weddings to street photography and make me happy and content.

    I sold off everything, but my Panasonic TS1( it does fit in my pocket and is sealed from sensor dust and makes nice movies). Then I bought a D700 ( no more crop factor, no more waiting for Olympus or Sony or Canon to invent some small primes) and with a couple of primes and flash I finally feel like I'm done chasing the horizon. I'm probably not, but I can dream about not wanting anything else, can't I?

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Clay,
    Thanks for the insightful response. I'm not looking for a silver bullet,
    just a camera I can photograph the theater of life with that
    sees as I see.
    I am getting very turned off to the Oly as it seems there is no
    focus scale. What an enormous blunder for the EP1.
    Don

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Well friends...thanks for the input and I might add that those that did not post...I got that message too....give it up, not worth responding....righty ....so

    I have spent countless hours exploring images and the actual mechanics of the OLY and it seems that the lack of a focus scale is not that big of an isse for most.....I'll never understand that....

    It also seems that the IQ of the images I've seen being very good but appear to be lifeless unlike the DP1...DP2 of course but I recently sold that...

    So my decision as it stands at the moment is to not get the OLY...simply because it lacks the important things I require in a camera and it was designed that way...they don't even see it as a flaw...that's scary to me....

    After viewing about 100 exhibition quality prints from the last year, I have to admit happily that the DP1 has the most in the selection and also the most grit....please don't think I mean GRIT...I mean LIFE.....those prints are just a joy to behold...then I went to Lightroom and only viewed images from the DP1....another joyful moment.....so..in conclusion....I have been waiting for the ideal camera to come along...I know but still it needs just a few things in it...

    35mm, FOV...Optical View Finder....screen off and focus scale...I don't need even AF at all......so, I'll wait cause the OLY falls short and the DP1...while it's a 28mm...
    does not....

    The DP1 IQ is unmatched.....and I am off on a tangent again...
    thanks to all and I am off work tomorrow, cause I was gonna work the OLY but instead I'm taking Siggy down to the Jersey Shore......

    Geeze another day to suffer in paradise with the DP1...
    later....Shooter

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Don

    We all feel your pain! This is not an ideal solution, perhaps, but it might buy you time until something better comes along:

    Have you considered mounting a 35mm external viewfinder on your DP1, cropping the file to fit and contenting yourself with smaller prints?

    All the best,

    Irenaeus

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irenaeus View Post
    Don

    We all feel your pain! This is not an ideal solution, perhaps, but it might buy you time until something better comes along:

    Have you considered mounting a 35mm external viewfinder on your DP1, cropping the file to fit and contenting yourself with smaller prints?

    All the best,

    Irenaeus
    Irenaeus...
    I'm turning 60 in OCT this year...I try not to use 4 letter words but fail all the time because it's part of my syntax....

    But....I never use or do that Crop word....
    Sorry my friend but it's against my religion to crop...and the shooters that came and went before me would haunt me in my dreams if ever I did that....yes I am a purest in that respect....

    The idea works but just not for me....
    Funny thing happened today...I picked up old blackie.......(blackie is a beat up Black Laq M4 with a 35 Cron on it)...and I looked at the room and framed an image in my mind...then raised the camera and looked thru the window and sure enough, even after all these years, blackie saw as I saw......

    then I posted here about scrapping the OLY thinggy and am now making love to the DP1 again.....

    Thanks for your reply but this is a clean forum and no 4 letter words need be posted...

    Don

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    hi don,
    that was my reaction to the oly pics: flat and lifeless. i didn't want to say anything cause i thought it might just be me!
    best of luck with the dp1,
    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    Well Wayne
    The times they are a changin'. I actually picked up the OLY today and I have to admit, I didn't want to like it....but it's to hard to not enjoy......
    I'll update with a new thread later after I figure out the stupid raw processor Oly gives ya.....

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    I bought the EP1 last weekend and have been enjoying it a lot. It is far from perfect, but it fills a "middle ground" that I have been looking for. Frankly my favorite camera is my DLux4. I find it incredibly easy to carry, it has a fast lens, and is great for "street" shooting. The only downsize is that there are some times that I'd like a little higher resolution file.

    On the other hand I have a Pentax K20d and an assortment of ltd prime lenses. I use this when I need a "good file" but being a dSLR it has downsides for street shooting. While it is less intimidating and much lighter with a small prime, it still is a "big black camera" to some. Plus it is sometimes too clean for my tastes.

    Enter the EP1. I originally wrote it off because I thought that the 230K dot screen was too low rez. But my local shop got a demo camera in and I took a card with me and snapped some photos. When I got home to look at them I was rather taken. Not because Olympus had made the "best sensor ever" or "beat an APS-C" or anything like that. But rather I just liked the images, especially higher iso images. To me the noise just looked right. I went back later in the day and bought the EP1/17mm kit (I don't like zooms).

    I am a lazy shooter and rely on AF a lot. I like to worry about framing rather than focus, and even then often I will hold the camera at an odd angle because I think I see something interesting. Contrary to some complaints, I've found the 17mm to AF quickly and accurately even in low light. Today I got a Voightlander 40/1.4 and M-u4/3 adapter and have been playing with that. Fast glass is a great thing, though handling for MF is a little clunky to me.

    So to me the EP1 isn't a replacement for anything. It is another tool that gives me a different look. A high quality file with a very understated appearance. It isn't for everyone, but it can be addicting and fun.

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    Re: With a little help from my friends...

    well, i spoke too soon, obviously. i've about two dozen digital cameras and everyone of them does something different, especially with color. so, carry on with the experiment, all.

    i am trying to find out what makes us better photographers, and i think i have an answer, but that's another thread.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

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