Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

[Lili]

Wow.....ABsolutely Superb
other worldliness......Divine :clap: helen

i completely agree!!!

 

[Maggie O]

Whoops, meant to post this version of the sculpture :

Kind Regards

Brian

That is five kinds of cool! :clap::clap::clap:

 

[Hypnohare]

After reading these posts I was very curious about the new model Olympus!

Today I had the opportunity to handle the Olympus E-410 which is physically almost identical to the soon to be released E-420.

The E-410 seems like it is well made and I really liked the user interface when in manual mode. It is much smaller and lighter than most DSLRs, but it is still a DSLR. I took the lens off the camera and even in that state, it looked like it was almost twice the volume of the Canon G9.

So even if you use the Olympus with the new Zuiko 25mm (50mm EFOV) f 2.8 Pancake lens on the body, it is still NOT a camera you can slip into your pocket!

The Olympus is a very nice, easy to carry DSLR and frankly I am very tempted to purchase one. But it is in a totally different category than the compact cameras that we know love (Ricoh GR II, Leica D-LUX 3, Canon G9, Etc.).

Therefore because of the form factor alone, I just don't see the Olympus as being any sort of competition to the Sigma DP1. With that big APS-C sensor the Sigma seems to have created a whole new category: the medium sized sensor - pocket camera.


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http://www.flickr.com/photos/16699882@N07/

 

[Brian Mosley]

The big question for me is, will the improved good light performance of the DP1's sensor over the GR-DII justify the 2x price difference and backwards leap in user interface?

If I want pocketability I think the Ricoh wins, and if I want large sensor performance the E-420 wins... both are much more mature & polished cams IMHO. The DP1 is squeezed on both sides but could still compete - at half the RRP.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Hypnohare]

I agree with you Brian. The Ricoh and Olympus seem to be much more mature products.

The DP1 looks like a version 1.0 product. It's a brilliant first step, but I will wait for the second version to be produced before I will seriously consider purchasing one.

I've learned this lesson the hard way, that when it comes to automobiles or consumer electronics, it is usually best to avoid the first generations products. There are always problems in the hardware or UI, that the designers never foresaw.

My GR2 is only a few months old and I have a long way to go before I fully understand and utilize its capabilities. For the rest of the year, I will keep taking pictures and studying my images to see where I went wrong (technically and artistically). When I have mastered the Ricoh (to my satisfaction) then I might consider getting a different camera to expand my image palette.

In the meantime I'll keep my ears open to hear what I users of the DP1 think of their new camera.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/16699882@N07/

 

[cam]

I've learned this lesson the hard way, that when it comes to automobiles or consumer electronics, it is usually best to avoid the first generations products. There are always problems in the hardware or UI, that the designers never foresaw.

i always have to smile when i hear that opinion and, trust me, i hear it often! after working in sales and for an electronics manufacturer for several years (decades?), i see things the other way around. whilst the first generation product may have flaws, it is almost always (if not always) built the best. sure, second generation products smooth out the kinks and whatnot and add a little cosmetic glitz. but manufacturers also learn how many corners they can cut and get cost down in production so they reach their ultimate goal -- make money!

 

[Maggie O]

Cam's post reminds me of the 2nd generation iBooks- I got one of the first ones, and it had a gorgeous clear polycarbonate case that was painted white on the inside, giving it a 3-D "ice" look. By the time Apple moved the iBooks to the G4, the case was molded white plastic, not nearly as cool looking.

 

[Lili]

I go back and forth on this.
I far prefer smaller and/or lighter cameras.
The DP-1 does make it on the size front.
But we keep seeing both negative and positive feedback on it.
I very much hope the local Sigma Dealer, Competitive Camera gets one in stock.
Because I feel the only way to judge it will be to handle one.

 

[cam]

I go back and forth on this.
I far prefer smaller and/or lighter cameras.
The DP-1 does make it on the size front.
But we keep seeing both negative and positive feedback on it.
I very much hope the local Sigma Dealer, Competitive Camera gets one in stock.
Because I feel the only way to judge it will be to handle one.

i'm doing the same. my dealer actually has it in stock, but i'm waiting til next week to go.... i actually was still kind of up in the air with my original GRD purchase until i handled it against the GX100. had no idea what i was doing in either case, but the GRD just felt right... if the DP1 feels wrong initially, then maybe that is that as it seems to be with others. there's something about the pics that tempt me, though. and so many of my pics are taken when people (even those i know) aren't aware, that near silence is a necessity.

i took fantastic pics of a friend today in therapy, who was just glowing with the admission that she may be in love.... i have to respect her privacy so i can't share them (sorry). i never would have gotten them had she been able to hear the shutter (when she did, i got a big black exposure where her hand conveniently met my lens

 

[SimonL]

Some interesting comparisons here:

http://ricoh.grfan.net/showthread.php?p=28497#post28497

 

[Sean_Reid]

While looking at photography monographs is useful and can give you ideas, ultimately, to improve your composition I think the best thing to do is to look at paintings because painters have to create the whole composition; their composition is completely intentinonal. The trouble is that it's difficult to look at paintings: you can look at a painting for a few minutes and think about the composition, but the only real way to understand the composition is by making a sketch of the painting that emphasizes the compositional elements. That's a huge effort that, understandably, most people do not want to undertake. I do feel, however, that the time I spent drawing and painting did more than anything else to teach me how to see, which is what you need for good photography.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

The sketching, as Ben Lifson has often written about, is enormously useful. In the early 1990s, I spent a lot of time sketching from life and from Old Master drawings.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

You don't have to be able to draw to do this. Just get a reproduction of a painting, drawing, or a photograph and use tracing paper to block out the compositional elements. you can use the same technique to study the way artists handle the bottom edge of their works, the framing, etc. It is a great way to better understand why some photographs work and others don't.

Ben Lifson uses this approach in some of his essays.

Mike

Here's the link: http://www.rawworkflow.com/making_pictures/index.html

I'd recommend reading all 11 essays, they're some of the most valuable information on the web for serious photographers.

Edit: Just saw that Scott already posted this.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[asabet]

Some interesting comparisons here:

http://ricoh.grfan.net/showthread.php?p=28497#post28497

Thanks for the link Simon. Very interesting! There's a good section with the DP1 compared to the GRD II. I put links to English translations here: http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/03/euyoungs-six-part-sigma-sigma-dp1.html

Regards,
Amin

 

[thomasl.se]

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/03/euyoungs-six-part-sigma-sigma-dp1.html

M-hm, all the way from the ceremonial box opening. Popcorn, big time.

Thanks

 

[Joel.Gottlieb]

Some wonderful files from DP1 at ISO 800 by a pro--
http://saidkarlsson.com/blog/?page_id=179

Joel

 

[Lili]

Some wonderful files from DP1 at ISO 800 by a pro--
http://saidkarlsson.com/blog/?page_id=179

Joel

Saids work is really quite nice, all RAW of course and pp'd.
But gorgeous quality

 

[Brian Mosley]

Superb shots, I'm a sucker for great photography

I think I'll bite the bullet, and get one as an upgrade for my LX1.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[nostatic]

Some wonderful files from DP1 at ISO 800 by a pro--
http://saidkarlsson.com/blog/?page_id=179

Joel

He had me until this comment:

"For pros looking for something to back up their SLR however, im dead certain that the DP1 will be a huge success, and hopefully the other manufacturers will follow in Sigmas footsteps. That would finally make digital compacts a useful category of cameras."

 

[Lili]

He had me until this comment:

"For pros looking for something to back up their SLR however, im dead certain that the DP1 will be a huge success, and hopefully the other manufacturers will follow in Sigmas footsteps. That would finally make digital compacts a useful category of cameras."

Taken in the context that he wants a tiny camera that 'draws' like the bigger ones, that comment makes sense.
Of course, for those of us that prefer the look of the small sensor then it's a non sequitor
I note that despite the slow f4 maximum aperture (examining the exif shows he uses f4 a lot) he is getting OOF effects in many shots where my GRD at f2.8-2.4 would still appear sharp.
So the larger sensor and longer focal length is making itself seen even in these small web shots, whether that is Good Thing is very much a matter of personal taste.
Different Brushes, Different Palettes

 

[Maggie O]

A DP1, with its large sensor, can back up a DSLR. A GR-D II, with its small sensor, compliments a DSLR.

It makes perfect sense, no matter what your personal preference may be.