Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 122

Thread: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

  1. #1
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Hi there
    I thought it was worth posting this here, as so many of us are preoccupied with small cameras (and the DP1 doesn't have a small sensor).
    I thought the E420 announcement was interesting, here is a comparison of sizes and weights:

    Olympus 420: 125 X 53 X 91 380 gm
    Sigma DP1: 113 X 50 X 59 250 gm
    Ricoh GX100: 112 X 25 X 58 260 gm
    Ricoh GRD 1: 107 x 25 x 58 200 gm
    Leica D-Lux3: 106 x 26 x 56 220 gm

    The Olympus will be slightly bigger with the 50mm f2.8 pancake lens (but less than 10mm).

    Of course, it has the advantage that at other times one can put on the excellent Olympus 14-42 zoom.

    Food for thought - here are a couple of links:

    http://fourthirds-user.com/2008/03/t...s_examined.php

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0803/08...lympuse420.asp

    Sorry if this is the wrong place, but I thought it would be of interest to those looking for a pocket camera with an optical viewfinder, I think the Olympus certainly qualifies.

    Just this guy you know

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Jono,
    I don't know the Oly lens line up. Do any of the good long zooms have stabailization in the lens?

    I know there is a Panny one for the L10 that also works for the contrast detection AF. So maybe this would work on thr E420. Just looking at coverage longer than the M8 can get.

    Sorry I just saw another E420 thread and will post this over there.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Hi Terry,

    the (two varients of) Leica 14-50mm and Leica 14-150mm lenses both offer OIS... and you can use legacy lenses, like the Leica R 135mm f2.8 in manual focusing mode - which gives a fast, compact prime lens option. Live View will make legacy lens focusing possible (and you can add a KatzEye split prism focusing screen)

    Hope that helps

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  4. #4
    7ian7
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Wow. The 420 + 50mm (equiv) pancake lens
    is compelling. It's cheap and small enough for
    serious consideration even with no plan to fully
    commit to the Olympus lens line-up. Nice post.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    can you get the Leica lenses by themselves though? I haven't seen them offered (but I also haven't looked *that* hard). I'm back into "hunt" mode for a larger sensor camera, having dabbled in Pentax land with the K10d and liking it but not being thrilled by it. I got better pics from my DLux3. I pondered 4/3 before...hmm...

  6. #6
    PeterLeyssens
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Olympus 420: 125 X 53 X 91 380 gm
    Sigma DP1: 113 X 50 X 59 250 gm
    Ricoh GX100: 112 X 25 X 58 260 gm
    Ricoh GRD 1: 107 x 25 x 58 200 gm
    Leica D-Lux3: 106 x 26 x 56 220 gm

    The Olympus will be slightly bigger with the 50mm f2.8 pancake lens (but less than 10mm).
    Hi Jono & all,

    In the meantime you already know that I'm interested in most of these cameras (though my personal preference would be E510 and the DP1 leaves me cold). But, I noticed I forgot to introduce myself ! My name is as my nick suggests. About 20 years ago, I bought my first camera, an OM-1. I stuck with Olympus for about 10 years, until I joined a photography course and got interested in other ways of working. I bought a Minolta TC-1 and some Leica thread mount stuff, but I'm slowly selling my stock to provide funds for the move to digital.

    I noticed that dragging around an SLR or even an M8 is quite a hassle because of the size, particularly the lens that sticks out. The small sensor cameras definitely have an edge here. Also, for the flexibility (e.g. 24mm lens on GX-100), they're very cheap. On the other hand, if you wad out piles of cash, any SLR or RF is much more flexible because of the interchangeable lenses. But the one digital RF on the market (M8) is so expensive that I'd be scared to use it, so that one is out. As for the choice between small sensor or SLR: the best is to have both ! The small one for every day photography, and for bigger jobs, an SLR gives more flexibility. I'm still in the market for a cheaper RF, though, if that should come out.

    With this E420 and the pancake lens, Olympus is effectively reopening the OM market segment and improving it. The complete package is about the size of an OM-4T with the 40mm pancake lens (a bit less long but a bit taller). The other lenses seem really big, but it's okay to carry one or two in a coat pocket, like we did in the OM days. That the two lenses I'd pick would be an 11-22mm or a 40-150mm. Gettting the range from 21-300mm on OM would've taken a lot more lenses and a lot more weight than this FourThirds setup, so Olympus has actually delivered on their promise: smaller cameras. Quite impressive !

    I'll still probably just go for the GX-100 for now and save up for a decent E510 in the next few months. But I'm excited !


    Peter.

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Lili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    All this talk has me really excited.
    Right now the E410, old skool but still very capable and tiny, has gotten really cheap.
    I bet it will work great with that 25/2.8 pancake.
    Mayhap not so well with live view, but you have tiny DSLR with a fast lens.
    PURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
    ^_^

  8. #8
    Mitch Alland
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    The E420 does look interesting — of course if I got it I'd have to destroy it's files to get the effect I want <g>. Rather than the 25mm lens that gives an EFL of 50mm I would have preferred an EFL of 40-42mm, as I have really started to like the 40mm EFL of the Ricoh tele-converter of the GRD/GRD2. And I'd want 21 and 28mm EFL lenses, but I gather there are no small 4/3 lenses if these EFLs, are there?

    I must say that I'm much more attracted by the idea of the E4120 than by the DP1, and wonder whether this is partly because I feel Olympus has always made better lenses that in the pass.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  9. #9
    7ian7
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Vs the DP1, I agree Mitch.

  10. #10
    7ian7
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Oly has always been such a sensible manufacturer, that I think I must have a block against diving in, save for a Stylus at some point in the early 90s.

    BTW, seems like there's plenty of noise at 400 and beyond on their other sensors, and no, not a big selection of primes yet.

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Lili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    I quite agree with both Mitch and Ian, givine the choice of the DP-1 and an E-410/420 with the 25, I would go Oly all the way
    Last edited by Lili; 5th March 2008 at 08:44.

  12. #12
    PeterLeyssens
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    About the DP1: I fully agree: it'll be more expensive, with most probably a weaker lens that's not exchangeable. And it's not very pocketable because it's 5cm deep. Of course, that's only where the lens sticks out of the body that's fairly much a brick otherwise, but you can't take that lens off

    Peter.

  13. #13
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Now I want to see Olympus make a Digital XA, same great lens, same form factor, same VF, but it can be autofocus. That would be a camera worth owning and possibly a GR-D killer.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    The E420 does look interesting — of course if I got it I'd have to destroy it's files to get the effect I want <g>. Rather than the 25mm lens that gives an EFL of 50mm I would have preferred an EFL of 40-42mm, as I have really started to like the 40mm EFL of the Ricoh tele-converter of the GRD/GRD2. And I'd want 21 and 28mm EFL lenses, but I gather there are no small 4/3 lenses if these EFLs, are there?

    I must say that I'm much more attracted by the idea of the E4120 than by the DP1, and wonder whether this is partly because I feel Olympus has always made better lenses that in the pass.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
    Hi Mitch,

    you could use the 14-42mm f3.5-f5.6 lens for an EFL of 28-84mm and plenty of dof... plus shooting at ISO 3200 would perhaps give you a head start on getting your signature style (which is fantastic. by the way!)

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Hi Mitch,

    you could use the 14-42mm f3.5-f5.6 lens for an EFL of 28-84mm and plenty of dof... plus shooting at ISO 3200 would perhaps give you a head start on getting your signature style (which is fantastic. by the way!)

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Mitch
    It's also worth mentioning that this zoom lens of which Brian talks weighs . . . 190 gm and focuses down to 25cm - it's also very sharp, and I second his opinion, crank up the ISO and you'll be where you want to be!
    for your other pocket there is a 40-150 (80-300) which only weighs 220 gms

    The pancake lens weighs 95 gm

    all small enough to go on your belt without trouble!

    Just this guy you know

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    351
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Holy cow, I read that part about the new E410 this morning, before work, but didn't see the part about the new 25 mm lens. That is so cool. After what, about eight years of affordable DSLR's, someone finally comes out with a lens that really makes sense, for street photography. I know Pentax had a couple pancakes, but they were still sort of odd ball focal lengths. This has got to be the package I've been waiting for. Now, if they can just add a 14 2.8 to go along with it. Good going Olympus! Anyone hear of a release date for the lens?
    Last edited by clay stewart; 5th March 2008 at 13:58.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    145
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Hi Mitch,

    you could use the 14-42mm f3.5-f5.6 lens for an EFL of 28-84mm and plenty of dof... plus shooting at ISO 3200 would perhaps give you a head start on getting your signature style (which is fantastic. by the way!)

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Yeah I was surprised how well the 14-42 performs, don't see much difference compared to my Zuiko primes. I've been using the 28/3.5 Zuiko with an adapter and split prism focus screen with my 410 but the new pancake looks like the ticket.

    tm

  18. #18
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Lili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Holy cow, I read that part about the new E410 this morning, before work, but didn't see the part about the new 25 mm lens. That is so cool. After what, about eight years of affordable DSLR's, someone finally comes out with a lens that really makes sense, for street photography. I know Pentax had a couple pancakes, but they were still sort of odd ball focal lengths. This has got to be the package I've been waiting for. Now, if they can just add a 14 2.8 to go along with it. Good going Olympus! Anyone hear of a release date for the lens?
    Per DPReview; May

  19. #19
    Hypnohare
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Great Post Jono!

    Suddenly my day got quite a bit more interesting! I've always liked my old Olympus film camera and I really look forward to checking this new camera out along with the cool pancake lens.

    I really hope this gets Nikon and Canon to start developing compact cameras for the advanced photographers and not just compacts for the entry level consumers. Frankly they (Nikon and Canon) could do a lot better than the P5100 and G9! Just my opinion.

  20. #20
    asabet
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    While there have been a number of posts on a number of sites to the effect that the E-420/ 25 pancake combo eliminates the need for the DP1, I don't see it that way. I can understand that someone with the already somewhat compact E-420 might want their compact camera to really compact, eg GRD. The GRD is truly a "go everywhere," fit in any pocket-type camera. OTOH, some will find the DP1 small enough to go everywhere and the E-420 a good size for travelling light on days when deliberate work is planned. Still others will enjoy carrying both a DP1 to cover the 28mm FOV and E-420/25 for the 50mm FOV. That's nearly as compact as carrying the E-420/25 and the separate 14-42 zoom and comes with two distinct bonuses. 1) You get to use two different "films" - Foveon X3/Sigma and Panasonic/Oly; and 2) No lens switching required. Although there is overlap between these two cameras, there are plenty of differences; and to me, both cameras make sense as photographic tools.

  21. #21
    Mitch Alland
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    ...you could use the 14-42mm f3.5-f5.6 lens for an EFL of 28-84mm and plenty of dof... plus shooting at ISO 3200 would perhaps give you a head start on getting your signature style (which is fantastic. by the way!)...
    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ....It's also worth mentioning that this zoom lens of which Brian talks weighs . . . 190 gm and focuses down to 25cm - it's also very sharp, and I second his opinion, crank up the ISO and you'll be where you want to be!
    for your other pocket there is a 40-150 (80-300) which only weighs 220 gms

    The pancake lens weighs 95 gm

    all small enough to go on your belt without trouble!
    Thanks for the kind words, Brian.

    Brian, Jono: Great minds think alike: I was also thinking about the 14-42mm lens and pushing ISO to 3200 to work around the f3.5-f5.6 maximum aperture limitation. The only issue with that is that I use the LCD rather than the viewfinder for framing and the LCD is going to be (disconcertedly?) dark at ISO 3200 — but that may not matter because I look at the subject when pressing the shutter button and only use the LCD for loosely establishing the edges of the frame: I'll have to try this.

    AS state above I certainly am much more interested in the Olympus E420 than in the Sigma DP1, but most likely won't buy it because I like the results that I'm getting with the GRD2 so much that I don't feel the need for "more image quality", as you can see in the pictures in following thread:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=942

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  22. #22
    Mitch Alland
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    While there have been a number of posts on a number of sites to the effect that the E-420/ 25 pancake combo eliminates the need for the DP1, I don't see it that way...Although there is overlap between these two cameras, there are plenty of differences; and to me, both cameras make sense as photographic tools.
    That's not the way I see it; nor is it the way the market is likely to see it either, not least for the reason of the general reputation of Olympus and Ricoh as camera and lens makers compared to that of Sigma. I can see going the with the GDR2 or the E420, or with both; but if the E420 and it's lens are as good as expected a large portion of the DP1's market has suddenly evaporated — or at least as far as my needs are concerned. Time will tell...

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  23. #23
    Member kai.e.g.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Friuli-Venezia-Giulia, Italy
    Posts
    150
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    I have to agree with Mitch. Especially if Olympus take the E420 one "little" step further down the track and remove the "reflex" aspect of the camera (no mirror, no prism, no slr "hump") - shaving off the entire top plate of the camera, and either eliminate the flash (keep the flash shoe!!) or make it a little pop-up one like DP1/Ricoh. They'd be approaching something along the lines of a Canon G9 in length/height, except with 4/3rds sensor and interchangeable lens, including the possibility of the skinny pancake. They'd retain the SLR's lens register distance, just to make existing lenses compatible, at the obvious cost of increased thickness.... but my word the flexibility and ease of transport would turn heads. Now I can speculate more easily on why the president of Sigma was recently quoted with promises of more models of DP1-like cameras before the year's end (in any other circumstance a crazy thing to reveal) - I wonder if he knew competition was soon about to tighten up!

  24. #24
    Mitch Alland
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Kai, I'd be surprised if Olympus got rid of the "vestigial" reflex hump as they probably don't need to do it for competitive reasons. Is it really likely that the reflex VF on the E420 would be so poor that people would want to see it go? Är det möjligt?

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  25. #25
    Member kai.e.g.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Friuli-Venezia-Giulia, Italy
    Posts
    150
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    I suppose I was thinking of it more as an avenue of approach for Olympus should they want to enter the high-end compact market... but you might be right that the market itself wouldn't care about the body size if the lenses are in any case relatively hefty (certainly when compared to "real" compacts). Most people would prefer the TTL view of course. It's probably just me who hates the resulting bulge :-)

    Är det möjligt
    You're just one country too far to the west for my 2nd language, but I do have a Swedish-English dictionary handy :-)

  26. #26
    PeterLeyssens
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    Kai, I'd be surprised if Olympus got rid of the "vestigial" reflex hump as they probably don't need to do it for competitive reasons. Is it really likely that the reflex VF on the E420 would be so poor that people would want to see it go?
    I agree: people recognise SLRs by their hump. Olympus already tried to get rid of the hump in their E-3xx series. Aside from how good a tool those cameras may be, Olympus switched back to a hump and I'm guessing it'll stay that way. It's a bit of a macho thing like a big spoiler on a car: you may not need it, but people recognise it as a sports car.

    I personally wouldn't mind, though. Taking out the viewfinder and that silly built-in flash would reduce the size even more. I'm considering an external viewfinder anyway, not just because I hear FourThirds viewfinders are tunnel like. That can be solved to some extent with the ME-1 1.2x eyecup. But I think I'd miss having the surroundings in the viewfinder, like a rangefinder shows it.


    Peter.

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterLeyssens View Post
    I agree: people recognise SLRs by their hump. Olympus already tried to get rid of the hump in their E-3xx series. Aside from how good a tool those cameras may be, Olympus switched back to a hump and I'm guessing it'll stay that way. It's a bit of a macho thing like a big spoiler on a car: you may not need it, but people recognise it as a sports car.

    I personally wouldn't mind, though. Taking out the viewfinder and that silly built-in flash would reduce the size even more. I'm considering an external viewfinder anyway, not just because I hear FourThirds viewfinders are tunnel like. That can be solved to some extent with the ME-1 1.2x eyecup. But I think I'd miss having the surroundings in the viewfinder, like a rangefinder shows it.


    Peter.
    There has been a lot of talk on the olympus forums of the "EVIL" (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens) camera, but personally I like real light.

    As for the 'tunnel like' 4/3 viewfinder - it's true of all but the E3, which has one of the nicest and brightest viewfinders I've used (with a proportionately larger 'hump').
    The E420 will be (I guess) the same as the E410 etc. Still, one should get this in perspective, it might be 'tunnel like' but it's in a completely different league from the nasty little holes you get in the likes of the Canon G9.
    Mind you - I agree, rangefinders have taught me how nice it is to see what isn't going to be in the picture as well as what is.

    Just this guy you know

  28. #28

  29. #29
    Player
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    I see the E-420, as Mitch does, as more of a competitor to the DP1 than the GRD2. It's probably worthwhile to sacrifice the smaller-dimensioned DP1 to gain the flexibility of an SLR, since both cameras aren't exactly svelte. The sensors are close enough to be moot. The GRD2 seems to be still unrivalled.

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Lili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Amin beat me to punch here
    However that picture there does illustrate there is still considerable size difference between the DP-1 and E420.
    Whether or not one is willing to sacrifice the added flexibility of the 420 for the far greater carryability of the DP-1 is very much a personal decision.
    Given the MSRP of both cameras I suspect many will opt for the 420 25/2.8 combo, even if it doesn't cover the wide angle of the DP-1.
    For me it is a kind of tough choice.
    I adore my GRD first gen so would not find the fixed prime WA lens to be a onerous limitation at all.
    The slower speed of the lens would be annoying but then most of my shots with the GRD are in bright daylight or high ISO and f4 seems to be my most used aperture so I might be nit picking here.
    The live view of the 420, while a step up from the 410 does not seem so fast by its very nature in focus as the GRD or DP-1. However if one prefocuses or uses scale focus then the point is moot.
    Question; does the Oly 25/2.5 actually have a focus scale?
    If not how does one do scale focus?

  31. #31
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Near London
    Posts
    1,054
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    I've linked it from the post by Guenter Borgemeister in DPR


  32. #32
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I've linked it from the post by Guenter Borgemeister in DPR

    That's a nice illustration - I'd like to see it showing the DP1 with the lens properly extended and the OVF fitted. I realise you wouldn't keep it in a pocket that way, but it would still be a good comparison.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  33. #33
    7ian7
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Is the point really that it has to be as small as the DP1? Its build is way more sturdy — presumably — so it could live on a strap on one's shoulder, without fear of ruining it. It can shoot six RAW frames in two seconds. It will focus faster than any of our little cameras. It has "contrast detection" or whatever — it focusses differently in Live View, so even then it may still be quick as hell. The only thing I think might disappoint some of us, is that the Oly's "Super High Grade" fixed aperture zooms are not tiny, and also that they don't make a very wide prime. Lately I've been eyeing new dSLR systems — such as the D300 in combination with a used Nikon or new Voightlander pancake lens, which would be a way bigger investment (and probably worth it), but definitely not as small. I guess the question is what the files look like: are they only slightly "better" than our Ricohs or only slightly "worse" than higher end dSLRs. I read about dynamic range issues in an article about the top-of-the-line Oly dSLR (as well as the 410 and 510) on Luminous Lanscape.

  34. #34
    asabet
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Most people have their own subjective size categories. For one person, a DP1 may compete in the same size category as the E-420. For others, a DP1 may compete in the GRD II size category. I'm in the latter camp. A DP1 is very similar in size to a GX100, as Björn Utpott has shown in this comparison . As for the size added by extending the lens, a consideration Brian and Jono have mentioned, that is not a significant factor for me. The OVF is a factor, but I will try to get by without it for now in order to keep the form as compact as possible.
    Last edited by asabet; 6th March 2008 at 08:29.

  35. #35
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Lili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Amin, Thanks for that very informative link, puts things in a very clear perspective!
    As to this size issue, I carried my Hexar AF for long time and counted myslef lucky for such a portable camera.
    The really small size and weight of the GRD is wonderful for all that it can do.
    However, do *I* really need such a small camera for everyday carry?
    Propbably not, but it really does help!
    My only gripe with the DP-1 (in so far as I can have any, not having even seen one) are the fact the it does very much the same job as the GRD (albeit with a much bigger sensor) with which I am more than pleased ( liking very much the small sensor look ) for a bit more $$.
    "If it ain't broke dont fix it"
    However the E420 appeals a lot, I seldom took (its still at Pentax for repairs) my K100D anywhere due to size/weight/noise issues.
    The little Oly does not have these (I have handled and shot with an E410 and the lightweight but very sharp 14-42 kit lens)
    With the 25 it would very much rock, however I see it in light of my Pentax and hexar, not in comparison with the GRD/DP-1's of the world

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by 7ian7 View Post
    Is the point really that it has to be as small as the DP1? Its build is way more sturdy — presumably — so it could live on a strap on one's shoulder, without fear of ruining it. It can shoot six RAW frames in two seconds. It will focus faster than any of our little cameras. It has "contrast detection" or whatever — it focusses differently in Live View, so even then it may still be quick as hell. The only thing I think might disappoint some of us, is that the Oly's "Super High Grade" fixed aperture zooms are not tiny, and also that they don't make a very wide prime. Lately I've been eyeing new dSLR systems — such as the D300 in combination with a used Nikon or new Voightlander pancake lens, which would be a way bigger investment (and probably worth it), but definitely not as small. I guess the question is what the files look like: are they only slightly "better" than our Ricohs or only slightly "worse" than higher end dSLRs. I read about dynamic range issues in an article about the top-of-the-line Oly dSLR (as well as the 410 and 510) on Luminous Lanscape.
    I guess I can chip in here - having loads of both D200 / D2x / K14n / E3 / E510 images - for me the 4/3 images are less good at high ISO, but I think they always have better colour. But, for the sake of your argument, and in your words, 4/3 files are only slightly 'worse' than higher end dSLR files (although many would bicker about that). They are definitely much 'better' than ricoh files (please note the quote marks!). Which is what you'd expect, the sensors being so much larger.

    Just this guy you know

  37. #37
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Good timing on this discussion as I returned my Pentax K10d because I barely used it in HK and was getting better shots with the Leica. For whatever reason I still feel the "need" to have a dslr around. I'm starting to get more call for doing some shots at work (a sideline), and I love to shoot macro, which a good dslr and proper lens will do beautifully (when I get it right).

    Sadly, part of the DSLR thing is just legitimacy. When I'm shooting for other people (ie work), if I pull out the Leica I'm perceived as being an "amateur" and treated as such. If I pull out a dslr (like when I shot our group photos with the D70), I am a "professional." While the proof should be in the pudding, often it isn't. Plus I do like the idea of being able to swap lenses if need be. Since I'm a digital media guy and not a "photographer" per se, it isn't that big of a deal but it is palpable.

    So I was pretty much set to get a K20d because of the new sensor, and I do like the UI of the Pentax, plus the "vibe" of the brand. Plus I can buy older primes and use them. But 4/3s has always intrigued me.

    Part of me just says to keep shooting with the Dlux3, and I will, but I think I need more than just one tool...if for no other reason than to inspire me to see differently.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    If you're happy with your Dlux3 (I'm happy with my LX1 for small sensor cam) then the E-420 would be ideal, considering the legendarily sharp Olympus ZD 50mm f2 macro lens would also be available.

    It's worth mentioning that the shutter sound of the E-420 is likely to be an issue for anyone used to the near silent small sensor cams - you'll want to keep your Ricoh / consider the DP1 for those ultra low profile shots!

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  39. #39
    asabet
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    Amin, Thanks for that very informative link, puts things in a very clear perspective!
    As to this size issue, I carried my Hexar AF for long time and counted myslef lucky for such a portable camera.
    The really small size and weight of the GRD is wonderful for all that it can do.
    However, do *I* really need such a small camera for everyday carry?
    Propbably not, but it really does help!
    My only gripe with the DP-1 (in so far as I can have any, not having even seen one) are the fact the it does very much the same job as the GRD (albeit with a much bigger sensor) with which I am more than pleased ( liking very much the small sensor look ) for a bit more $$.
    "If it ain't broke dont fix it"
    Lili, that makes very good sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    However the E420 appeals a lot, I seldom took (its still at Pentax for repairs) my K100D anywhere due to size/weight/noise issues.
    The little Oly does not have these (I have handled and shot with an E410 and the lightweight but very sharp 14-42 kit lens)
    With the 25 it would very much rock, however I see it in light of my Pentax and hexar, not in comparison with the GRD/DP-1's of the world
    That's how I see it as well. The E-420 as very much in the same size class as the Hexar AF/RF, Leica M, and Olympus OM series. I think it will be a big hit along with the ZD 25/2.8.

  40. #40
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    If you're happy with your Dlux3 (I'm happy with my LX1 for small sensor cam) then the E-420 would be ideal, considering the legendarily sharp Olympus ZD 50mm f2 macro lens would also be available.

    It's worth mentioning that the shutter sound of the E-420 is likely to be an issue for anyone used to the near silent small sensor cams - you'll want to keep your Ricoh / consider the DP1 for those ultra low profile shots!

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    I did compare the E510 with the K10d at the shop, and for me the viewfinder was night and day difference. The K10d has a beautful, big, bright viewfinder. The Oly was...um...not.

    How does the live view implementation work? I am used to shooting without a viewfinder with the Dlux and wouldn't mind that in a dslr if need be. However with macro stuff I really need a decent view to check focus.

    Obviously I should buy an Oly to have a 4/3 cam, my dlux for small sensor, and the Pentax for larger sensor

  41. #41
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    What is the aspect ratio of the Pentax? The 4x3 frame of the Olympus is a deal-breaker for me.

  42. #42
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Lili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    What is the aspect ratio of the Pentax? The 4x3 frame of the Olympus is a deal-breaker for me.
    The Pentax DSLR's are all 3:2, like 35mm frame Maggie

  43. #43
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    3x2. Standard dslr. The K20d seems like a monster cam: 14.6mp APC sensor, fits all legacy Pentax glass, image stabilization in the body, full weather sealing, built-in sensor cleaner, up to iso 6400, etc. $1299 for the body. Significantly cheaper than the D300 or E3. Downside is "legendary" Pentax AF (which is weak in low light), but they seem to have addressed most of the niggles people had with the K10d (especially jpg engine).

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08...pentaxk20d.asp

  44. #44
    Member gromitspapa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Market price on the D300 is only about $430 more than the K20d, and it outperforms the former $4,500 flagship D2Xs in every way (except pro-body feel). CMOS sensor, outstanding LED, 6-8fps, 14-bit option, best flash system, and the best AF on the market (including 3D color tracking) makes for a professional camera in most respects. Been on the market now long enough to prove itself solid and reliable, with stellar IQ. Big selling point for me is the ability to use Capture NX on the RAW files with its U-Point tool and optional Nik filter set.

  45. #45
    Player
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    gromitspapa, I'm with you on the Nikon boat. I love my D200, and I now think of my D80 as an E420 killer. I'll probably skip a generation though and get a "D400."

  46. #46
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,037
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    The good Nikkor lenses are wicked expensive though. I love the idea that you can buy a used Pentax SMC A 50/1.4 for about $150 and get great glass.

  47. #47
    7ian7
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I guess I can chip in here - having loads of both D200 / D2x / K14n / E3 / E510 images - for me the 4/3 images are less good at high ISO, but I think they always have better colour. But, for the sake of your argument, and in your words, 4/3 files are only slightly 'worse' than higher end dSLR files (although many would bicker about that). They are definitely much 'better' than ricoh files (please note the quote marks!). Which is what you'd expect, the sensors being so much larger.
    Hey Jono, thanks for your response, I only caught it now. Definitely quotes around the superlatives; I know sensor drawing quality is at least on some level subjective. Though I might add this is an eye-opening link: <http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/h3d-1.htm> Unfortunately, the Hasselblad isn't exactly pocketable.

    Nostatic/Player, I've shot with the D3 and D300 and they're both great, but the D300 gets noisy beyond 400asa, though it's still kind of appealing. The D3 is fully usable at 6400. It's wild. It's silly, but I also wish the D300 had the in-camera 4/5 crop. That's a nice shape, not far off from our 4/3 ratio.

    I hope Nikon will create a 25 (50equiv) pancake lens for the D300 and a 50mm pancake for the bigger but full frame D3. Now that they're rocking it, I think an expanded lens line is imminent.

  48. #48
    Member gromitspapa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    The good Nikkor lenses are wicked expensive though. I love the idea that you can buy a used Pentax SMC A 50/1.4 for about $150 and get great glass.
    You could say the same thing about Olympus lenses, although you get more "bang for the buck" with the 2x crop factor. A Nikkor 50mm 1.4 is an excellent lens at around $270 brand new.

  49. #49
    7ian7
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by gromitspapa View Post
    You could say the same thing about Olympus lenses, although you get more "bang for the buck" with the 2x crop factor. A Nikkor 50mm 1.4 is an excellent lens at around $270 brand new.
    True; and then there's all the incredible and cheap vintage (and arguably nicer) Nikon glass that works on these cameras ... including a sweet pancake 50!

  50. #50
    Sean_Reid
    Guest

    Re: Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there
    I thought it was worth posting this here, as so many of us are preoccupied with small cameras (and the DP1 doesn't have a small sensor).
    I thought the E420 announcement was interesting, here is a comparison of sizes and weights:

    Olympus 420: 125 X 53 X 91 380 gm
    Sigma DP1: 113 X 50 X 59 250 gm
    Ricoh GX100: 112 X 25 X 58 260 gm
    Ricoh GRD 1: 107 x 25 x 58 200 gm
    Leica D-Lux3: 106 x 26 x 56 220 gm

    The Olympus will be slightly bigger with the 50mm f2.8 pancake lens (but less than 10mm).

    Of course, it has the advantage that at other times one can put on the excellent Olympus 14-42 zoom.

    Food for thought - here are a couple of links:

    http://fourthirds-user.com/2008/03/t...s_examined.php

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0803/08...lympuse420.asp

    Sorry if this is the wrong place, but I thought it would be of interest to those looking for a pocket camera with an optical viewfinder, I think the Olympus certainly qualifies.
    Thanks for that post Jono. A good set of pancake lenses is just what 4/3 needs to help fulfill its promise of being a compact format.

    Cheers,

    Sean

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •