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Thread: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

  1. #151
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Does anyone recall what the Mamiya IR filter cost? I seem to remember that it was rather pricy.
    US$2,894 at B&H.

  2. #152
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Right, so this strategy might not work well for Canon et al. I am sure they can reduce the price, but by that much?
    Carsten - Website

  3. #153
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Ditto!

    No video PLEASE

    Live view. Very useful for certain work.

    -Marc
    Hmmmm...And on RED

    No SIngle Frame?

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Right, so this strategy might not work well for Canon et al. I am sure they can reduce the price, but by that much?
    I'd expect lower unit cost price for a smaller filter to cover 35mm and produced in larger quantitiies - and if offered as a option (like with Mamiya ZD), then my guess would be many would not want it. Wedding photogs and others who prioritise reduced moire might. I think the vast majority of Kodak DCS PRo 760 buyers opted for the IR filter, not the AA filter alternative.

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  5. #155
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    I don't want to steer this discussion off course but why do we not have 50mm, 35mm and 24mm Zeiss lenses for the Alpha system yet? I would love to buy the A900's successor if the high ISO performance was greatly improved (which I suspect will be) but the fast primes might keep me in Canon's camp otherwise.

    I wouldn't mind having video on the A900 too. If you don't want it you don't have to use it. I think keeping video off of the A850's successor would be a good way to keep the cost down on that body and differentiate between the two future models more than the A850 and A900 are today.

  6. #156
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by canon5dshooter View Post
    I don't want to steer this discussion off course but why do we not have 50mm, 35mm and 24mm Zeiss lenses for the Alpha system yet? .
    One of the users on dyxum who has contacts with Sony beta testers (and whose predictions in the past have been remarkably accurate) indicate that 2010 will see the introduction of 8-10 lenses, including the 500mm f/4.

    That is a boatload of lenses and is expected to include some Zeiss units too.
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

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    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Unfortunately, Sony never claimed they were going to bring a full range of Zeiss primes, and, since they already have a Sony branded 35 1.4 and a 50 1.4, it seems Sony has put its priority in bringing out other lenses, like the Zeiss zooms. I suspect we'll see the 24 1.4 Zeiss this year. If a Zeiss 50 comes, I'll buy that in a second, but I'm not betting on it appearing any time soon.

    I'm worried that Sony will focus on bringing better high ISO at the cost of color in the next round of fullframes. While I certainly welcome better high ISO performance, I'd prefer Sony not following Canon's path with poor color response in order to achieve it.

  8. #158
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by canon5dshooter View Post
    I don't want to steer this discussion off course but why do we not have 50mm, 35mm and 24mm Zeiss lenses for the Alpha system yet? I would love to buy the A900's successor if the high ISO performance was greatly improved (which I suspect will be) but the fast primes might keep me in Canon's camp otherwise.

    I wouldn't mind having video on the A900 too. If you don't want it you don't have to use it. I think keeping video off of the A850's successor would be a good way to keep the cost down on that body and differentiate between the two future models more than the A850 and A900 are today.
    I personally don't care if they made a Zeiss 24 if it was just f/2.8 ... but a Zeiss 21/2.8 like the legendary one for the Contax system would be most welcome. 35/1.4? YES! Zeiss never made a 50/1.4 I cared about (questionable Bokeh), but a 50/1.2 is a whole other possibility.

    IMO, including video is just another thing to go wrong in an already overly complicated electronic camera. I'm not a fan of "dual personality" cameras. Make the next flagship Sony tougher and more capable as a still camera ... and make it simpler, not more complex please.

    -Marc

  9. #159
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ..............

    IMO, including video is just another thing to go wrong in an already overly complicated electronic camera. I'm not a fan of "dual personality" cameras. Make the next flagship Sony tougher and more capable as a still camera ... and make it simpler, not more complex please.

    -Marc
    Marc,
    In general I would agree, for high end. There you want the best tool. No chef uses a swiss army knife!
    However, Sony is a different animal. I have P65+ and M9 so a Sony for me would be a GREAT stabilized 24MP camera with Leitax and Leica R lenses. It would be for me (and for you I believe) a 'family' or 'knock around' camrera. As such, having given up on carying a separate 'toy' video, I am looking at the Pentax k7 for R lenses only because of video. Both Sony and Pentax are BODY stabilized, so I can get 1-2 stops of effective EV for wildlife. Only Pentax has video.

    We all have multiple needs, and trying to make a Sony A9xx into a Phase 30+ killer doesn't make sense. However, for some special wildlife and family opportunities, it can make sense for some of us. It seems to be their market.

    Put in the video!!!

    A short story;

    My grandson was playing baseball and I had my Contax 645, the Zeiss 250mm SA, and a Phase 65+ back. He hit a great shot to center field and I think he got a triple. I had some good images from it.

    He said "Graff (my name ), did you get my hit?" I chimped the Contax and showed him his hit..

    He siad, "..that's not my hit, that's only me with a bat standing at homeplate...!!!

    Sometime movies are better.

    Regards
    Victor
    Last edited by gogopix; 8th January 2010 at 07:18.

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    As envious as I am of your Phase and M9, I would say that, for most users, the A900 is very much a faster/smaller/cheaper replacement for a P30+ type camera, and those users appreciate some of the trade-offs Sony has made. If one needs a swiss army knife in the same price bracket, the 5Dii seems a no-brainer.

    p.s. I'm of course not saying that the A900 actually is a P30+ beater, IQ-wise.

  11. #161
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    As envious as I am of your Phase and M9, I would say that, for most users, the A900 is very much a faster/smaller/cheaper replacement for a P30+ type camera, and those users appreciate some of the trade-offs Sony has made. If one needs a swiss army knife in the same price bracket, the 5Dii seems a no-brainer.

    p.s. I'm of course not saying that the A900 actually is a P30+ beater, IQ-wise.
    Well, the two needs I have are; body stabilization and video. They are also smaller than 5DII, yes?

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Ah, gotcha. I forgot about needing stabilization. The A900 is actually a little bigger than the 5Dii. The APS-C K7 is much smaller. Why not consider something like the EP-2? Small, movies, stabilization, and you can mount your R and M lenses.

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by canon5dshooter View Post
    (...) I wouldn't mind having video on the A900 too. If you don't want it you don't have to use it. (...)

    I wouldn't want to have to pay for video features.
    And I don't want all kinds of video related buttons (how about zoom buttons ) and menu choices.

  14. #164
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Agreed. When you compare the 5Dii and the A900, which are the same cost, which features would you rather have? The best VF/higher sync speed/higher fps/better build/ faster AF or....video? Canon did very little to update the 5Dii from the 5D, outside of the new sensor and the video capability. I think before the 5Dii's release, most were hoping for a fullframe camera that is more similar to the current 7D, but, instead they got the 5D with 21mp and video.

  15. #165
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Canon has not put video in it's top of the line studio camera but in the 5D. For phojournalists where media outlets want video and stills for web and print an integrated camera now makes sense. For some amatuer uses it does as well.

    But the A900 is more a studio camera -great color and resolution at low ISO. I'm looking forward to an integrated capture device from RED, Sony or Canon but for the A900 successor I would agree Sony should continue down the same path as it set for the current A900. Don't sacrifice it's edge at what it does really well for high ISO or video. Don't mess with the excellent viewfinder either. Sony should put video in another model similar to the A900 like Canon did with the 5D to get the ball roling on their integrated capture device of the future.

    The only Zeiss primes that would make me think about opening my wallet (aside from the current 135) are a PC/TS wide or a f/1.2 50mm.

  16. #166
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Graber View Post
    Canon has not put video in it's top of the line studio camera but in the 5D.
    But the A900 is more a studio camera -great color and resolution at low ISO. .
    Wow, is that true? I thought the A900 fell behind in bit depth and the resolution was fine, but some of the processing had the 'sony red' look?

    Are pros really using this camera for studio? I'm thinking portrait and product espectially.

    Not challenging, just curious. It is just that any comparisons I have seen of A900 to any MF or high end DSLR was lacking. I even saw (maybe a self serving ? :-) comment on the X1 having better files than the Sony.

    Victor

  17. #167
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Yeah, Victor, the A900 has become a very popular studio and landscape camera. There is no better 35mm camera in a controlled lighting environment, and while the D3x has a bit of a DR advantage in high DR scenes due to less shadow noise, the A900 has the color advantage. Any issue with reds that you've heard about were from poor profiling or processing, as color is one of the biggest IQ strenghts of the camera, outside of resolution. (C1's generic profile for the A900 is way too magenta, for example.)

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Its a first class studio camera.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Interesting about reds, IDC produces drop dead perfect reds with wonderful tonality, to my eyes at least. Other RCs less so, in default mode anyway.

    My use is landscape. I'd like a more refined shutter; a better, more user-friendly, less fragile, better placed cable release port; Live View; a full LCD histogram with channel selection, a RAW friendly histo display, and built-in UniWB option. Plus CZ wide primes, slow or fast, at least equivalent of the ZF/ZE ranges, but lighter like the CY range. We are never satisfied...

  20. #170
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by canon5dshooter View Post
    I wouldn't mind having video on the A900 too. If you don't want it you don't have to use it. I think keeping video off of the A850's successor would be a good way to keep the cost down on that body and differentiate between the two future models more than the A850 and A900 are today.
    And if you want video YOU can pay for it. Turn about is fair play.

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by Theresa View Post
    And if you want video YOU can pay for it. Turn about is fair play.
    Agreed... There is little room for extra buttons on the a900, which means something would likely have to go to implement video -- and I use all of the buttons!

    That's only the most obvious issue other than cost... I've seen it argued that other cameras add video with no downside to still imaging. Maybe, maybe not; was it a video-enabled Canon DSLR that had banding issues and ghost image issues(maybe that was two different models...)?

    Besides, I already have a cheap crappy $250 HD cam, why would I want one in my DSLR as well? If I wanted to get serious about video I'd get a real video camera. Hopefully if Sony jumps on the crap-de-jour video bandwagon at the high end of the DSLR range they will not include it on every camera so we can really "choose not to use it".
    α900+VG|F20|2xF58|16-35,24-70,135Z|STF|70-400G|50,85 1.4|16,20,28,100M,80-200APO f/2.8|28-135|500f/8|1x-3xMacro|2xMFC-1000|Tiltall+RRS, Bellows, etc.

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Video equipped sensors require more complex, faster read outs, which can lead to more heat/noise. Granted, the D3s and other cameras seem to be still very low noise. The 5Dii banding due to video is an interesting theory, Dave. It seems like it could be possible, but I don't know.

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Video equipped sensors require more complex, faster read outs, which can lead to more heat/noise. Granted, the D3s and other cameras seem to be still very low noise. The 5Dii banding due to video is an interesting theory, Dave. It seems like it could be possible, but I don't know.
    I wouldn't even call it a theory, just a question mark in my mind... e.g. do the banding/ghosting issues tend to be more common on cameras where some compromise has been made to enable video? May be little more than a first-generation growing pain, but IMHO the heat issues are of concern as well.

    I'd like to try a test, say on an a550, where I take a pic in the conventional way, then using MF-Check LV for 10, 20, 30 sec take the same pic, then take a 3rd pic in the conventional way. I don't have the means to perform a 100% scientifically valid test but I think I can determine if there is a difference visible to the casual observer. It's way down the list though...
    α900+VG|F20|2xF58|16-35,24-70,135Z|STF|70-400G|50,85 1.4|16,20,28,100M,80-200APO f/2.8|28-135|500f/8|1x-3xMacro|2xMFC-1000|Tiltall+RRS, Bellows, etc.

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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    A firmware upgade for the A900 is rumoured for February. We shall soon know now but I will only believe it when I see it!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

  25. #175
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    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    The Sony's, although just 12 bit, actual dynamic range and color depth are better than the 5D2 with its 14bit spec. I really don't want video, all I'd do is ignore it and have to pay for it. Better noise performance would be good. I'm afraid that video and live-view have become a "must have" because of marketing and reviews that focus on the number of features, useless to many or not. I think we will end up with EVFs too, even though a good pentaprism is more useful to me. The only EVF I have experience with is the KM DiMage a2 and a200 which have megapixel EVFs but are still greatly inferior. Perhaps someone will make one soon that is as clear, fast, and contrasty as a pentaprism, but I doubt it.

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