Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 175

Thread: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

  1. #1
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Anybody knows about what/when Sony will release their next generation FF Top DSLR?

    How many MPs? Heard rumors about 32MP while having higher sensitivity (less noise)?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    where did you hear the rumours? I have heard nothing. 32mp up from 25 is not much of an increase (although more is generally better).

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  3. #3
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Hi Peter,

    I think you may be referring to the rumored Sony A1R @35 megapixels reported on the photo rumors website in September 09. I have a feeling someone mentioned it may not have a low pass filter though don't see in direct reference to this in the specs.

    A couple of links

    http://photorumors.com/2009/09/20/sony-alpha-a1r/

    http://www.1001noisycameras.com/2009...ctualidad.html

    Mark

  4. #4
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    OK, I'm interested 35mp on a "35mm" dslr could test even Zeiss lenses and would make an interesting comparison with the far more expensive but similar pixel count Leica medium format.

    Presumably, if its true, Sony would sell the sensor to Nikon, making a D4x a real possibility.

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  5. #5
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    If the A1R becomes true and if they hopefully come along without an AA filter, then this would be pretty sure the death of the S System and even some lower end MFDBs.

    And in combination with the Zeiss glass and also the high end Alpha glass this would give a remarkable solution for high IQ.

    Maybe we just have to be patient another 6 months?

    I am definitely interested!

  6. #6
    vyanush
    Guest

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    If the A1R becomes true and if they hopefully come along without an AA filter, then this would be pretty sure the death of the S System and even some lower end MFDBs.
    No, it will not kill it but would be nice "poor man Leica S"

  7. #7
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by vyanush View Post
    No, it will not kill it but would be nice "poor man Leica S"
    By "killing and death" I mean that they - Leica - would not sell many S2s after that - why should one buy into a system which is 3 - 5 times the price and get maybe only 10 - 20% more quality?

    I know this cannot be calculated like that in sharp numbers, but a big number of people who are considering to jump into MFDBs or the S System would stay in DSLR (Alpha) because of the IQ you could expect here.

    Another thought is - maybe this A1R sensor is the first sign for improved CMOS (EXMOR) sensors which could find their way into MFDB world. That would be a healthy competition to Kodak and Dalsa, as I am pretty sure they are not so advanced with CMOS as Sony and Canon are.

    All this is just great news as it again will reshape the whole photographic vendor landscape - great for us users!

  8. #8
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    All what we have so far is rumors. The A1R is not very likely though. Certainly you can expect the next Sony flagship DSLR to feature a sensor which has higher than 25 mp, probably in the 30-35 mp, and in my opinion, not sooner than end of 2010.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  9. #9
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    All what we have so far is rumors. The A1R is not very likely though. Certainly you can expect the next Sony flagship DSLR to feature a sensor which has higher than 25 mp, probably in the 30-35 mp, and in my opinion, not sooner than end of 2010.
    Hm, not sure they will wait as long. I am kind of sure it will be an Exmor R sensor, the ones they are using now in the compact cameras, optimized for FF. With that sensor they should easily be able to achieve 35MP while also up to ISO 6400 in very good quality, without too much processing.

    Only thing I really hope is, that they go the Leica / MFDB path finally and build this camera without any AA filter.

    Not sure if all will be possible, but if I believe in one vendor to do so then it is Sony.

    Also not sure if they will sell this sensor then to others like Nikon, but rather keep it as real competitive advantage.

    And finally dreaming - if this would be possible for MFDBs then we are in the range of 80MP with an IQ better than today's 40MP backs.

  10. #10
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Regarding the AA Filter, that of the A900 is already very weak. The pixel density plays by itself the role of the AA filter so that it probably won't be needed at 30 ++ mp.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  11. #11
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Regarding the AA Filter, that of the A900 is already very weak. The pixel density plays by itself the role of the AA filter so that it probably won't be needed at 30 ++ mp.
    So I have really high hopes then

  12. #12
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    I'd be surprised if the S2 has 10-20% better IQ than the A850, let alone a new Sony camera.

  13. #13
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    I'm kinda happy with what I've got....but this is coming from a gal that likes her micro 4/3's stuff for daily walk around

    My stitched shots from the A900 are pretty freaking huge and I only shoot for me. My new apartment has a lot of good wall space but not that much.

  14. #14
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Aren't we forgetting one very important question here: What's in it for Sony? While they may or may not attract a little group of MF or would be MF customers with a higher pixel-count, that is a tiny segment compared to the "normal" DSLR users. Other than being able to boast that they have the highest resolution DSLR (which they already have), the gain is probably tiny. A much more important improvement would be low light performance, and while it's not impossible that they could achieve that and increase the pixel count, they would obviously be able to improve it more by not increasing the pixel count other than by a small fraction.

    I don't doubt that there will be a thirtysomething MP DSLR from Sony some time in the future, but I doubt that they are in a hurry.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I'd be surprised if the S2 has 10-20% better IQ than the A850, let alone a new Sony camera.
    Hi Douglas,

    interesting statement. Could you please explain how you came to this insight?

    Me, I think the a900 can certainly come a long way and I'm very happy with my Zeiss and Minolta glass. I've downloaded and played with the full size studio portraits, the DNG's that can be found on the net, and I must say that the difference with the a900 is not as big as I had expected.

    But the S2 has a 50% larger sensor and Peter Karbe's glass... I guess we'll have to wait and see what Guy and Jack will show us next month.

    Regards, Peter

  16. #16
    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Not sure if all will be possible, but if I believe in one vendor to do so then it is Sony.

    Also not sure if they will sell this sensor then to others like Nikon, but rather keep it as real competitive advantage.
    You appear not to be aware that there are two separate Sony divisions involved: Sony Semiconductor (which designs and manufactures the sensors) and Sony Imaging (which uses those sensors in the various Sony cameras). There is also a strong relationship between Sony Semiconductor and Nikon Precision (which makes technology that Sony Semiconductor uses to manufacture the sensors that both Sony Imaging and Nikon Imaging purchase).

    It would hardly be in Sony Semiconductor's interest to alienate Nikon Imaging -- one of their biggest customers, apart from Sony Imaging -- by refusing to sell them a high-end sensor that would only be used in a relatively small number of Sony cameras. Such an action would create the kind of unnecessary tension that tightly interlocked Japanese companies do their best to avoid.

  17. #17
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Hi Douglas,

    interesting statement. Could you please explain how you came to this insight?

    Me, I think the a900 can certainly come a long way and I'm very happy with my Zeiss and Minolta glass. I've downloaded and played with the full size studio portraits, the DNG's that can be found on the net, and I must say that the difference with the a900 is not as big as I had expected.

    But the S2 has a 50% larger sensor and Peter Karbe's glass... I guess we'll have to wait and see what Guy and Jack will show us next month.

    Regards, Peter
    Eventhough I don't like to go into the numbers game, 10-20% can mean anything and nothing. What I know is that the S2 sensor is 1.25X linearly larger than 24X36mm. From the optical characteristics point of view, there should be very little difference. I am not sure how the pixel density compares though, but it should be very close as well. Probably the only area where I see a difference is in the 16bit vs. 12 bit depth.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  18. #18
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I'm kinda happy with what I've got....but this is coming from a gal that likes her micro 4/3's stuff for daily walk around

    My stitched shots from the A900 are pretty freaking huge and I only shoot for me. My new apartment has a lot of good wall space but not that much.
    But you will be able to crop that much more LOL

  19. #19
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    The biggest improvements which Sony can make in their next gen high end sensor are:

    1) Some higher pixel count than today - 35 should be ok

    2) better high ISO performance up to 6400

    3) NO AA Filter !!!! - this is the most important improvement in order to enhance micro contrast

    If they manage to balance all of these 3 improvements, then the outcome should be IQ pretty close to MF from 30 - 40 MPs.

    Not sure if that will happen and how fast, but technically it is doable and the advantages would be huge compared to MF. And the Leica S2 would look pretty old then - unfortunately for Leica.

    WRT lens quality and Peter Karbe etc .... not saying this is not goiong to be excellent lenses, but keep in mind that also all the best glass makes only a small difference for most of the photographic applications - even high end needs. And the glass available for Sony is pretty excellent - Zeiss anyway but also original Sony (Minolta) glass.

    Just my 5c

  20. #20
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Peterv, I have no real insight on comparisons between the S2 and A900. I was simply implying that 20% is likely too optimisitic of a difference.

    Ptomsu, I'd be careful about wishing for great high ISO performance in the next Sony fullframe, or Sony may go ahead and follow Canon and Nikon with more transparent color filters. As the 5dii has shown, attempts at making a do-all camera can fall short, and using different cameras for different situations yields better results. Granted, the 5dii is outselling everything else. Lol.

  21. #21
    vyanush
    Guest

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Regarding the AA Filter, that of the A900 is already very weak. The pixel density plays by itself the role of the AA filter so that it probably won't be needed at 30 ++ mp.
    Edward, i'm in doubt for that. Did you see Lenstips M9 comparison with top-res DSLRs? A900 came behind 1Ds. It even loose to A100 in lppm by ~5% though has more densed sensor. IMHO its AA&CFA are realitively strong vs Canikon rivals and A100
    But i trully believe Sony could try to drop AA at 30+MPs that would be very appealing body, at least for me myself...
    ^)

  22. #22
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Lenstip's testing, like most online testing sites, should be taken with a grain of salt.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Peterv, I have no real insight on comparisons between the S2 and A900. I was simply implying that 20% is likely too optimisitic of a difference.
    Douglasf13, I'm just trying to understand what you're communicating here
    So what you're saying is that 20% is likely too optimisitic of a difference in IQ between the €18.600 Leica S2 and the €1.750 Sony a850.
    Now I agree price isn't everything, but I find it hard to comprehend this statement, especially when you say you have no real insight on comparisons between the S2 and A900.

    Really, I'm quite happy with the IQ of my a900's and all my A-mount glass. Ever since Photokina '08 I have been closely following all the S2 news, and the more S2 info becomes public, the more I've come to realize what a bargain the a900 is.

    Again, I think we should wait and see what comes out of Guy and Jack's test next month.

    Kind Regards, Peter

  24. #24
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Douglasf13, I'm just trying to understand what you're communicating here
    So what you're saying is that 20% is likely too optimisitic of a difference in IQ between the €18.600 Leica S2 and the €1.750 Sony a850.
    Now I agree price isn't everything, but I find it hard to comprehend this statement, especially when you say you have no real insight on comparisons between the S2 and A900.

    Really, I'm quite happy with the IQ of my a900's and all my A-mount glass. Ever since Photokina '08 I have been closely following all the S2 news, and the more S2 info becomes public, the more I've come to realize what a bargain the a900 is.

    Again, I think we should wait and see what comes out of Guy and Jack's test next month.

    Kind Regards, Peter
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not attempting to characterize the S2 without any experience with the system. All that I'm saying is that I'd personally be surprised if the S2 is "20%" better than the A900, but that's all pretty nebulous anyways. I've certainly seen enough of the A900 vs. digital backs with a similar pixel count to say that the differences are there, but subtle. Regardless, I'd sure like to be in the position to test the S2 firsthand. It looks great to me so far.

  25. #25
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    I am almost sure the S2 will perform better WRT IQ than the A900 and also better like any next generation Axyz. Only issue is how big will that difference remain and will it be worth that big amount of additional money?

  26. #26
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by vyanush View Post
    Edward, i'm in doubt for that. Did you see Lenstips M9 comparison with top-res DSLRs? A900 came behind 1Ds. It even loose to A100 in lppm by ~5% though has more densed sensor. IMHO its AA&CFA are realitively strong vs Canikon rivals and A100
    But i trully believe Sony could try to drop AA at 30+MPs that would be very appealing body, at least for me myself...
    ^)
    I just took a look at the M9 comparison, and indeed the A900 images seem to be the softest but very close to the 1Ds3 (which is also known to have a very weak AA filter like all 1Ds models) while the D3X seems to have the weakest AA filter. Very interesting.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  27. #27
    nautilus
    Guest

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    A900's files are more than big enough for Sony's customers. These don't want to handle and save too big files.
    AA filters have a function and Sony like all other mass market DSLR manufacturers use these filters for a good reason.
    Sony allready has the image of producing cameras with noise problem compared to Nikon and Canon.

    Therefore Sony will not ignore all theses circumstances and will not build the camera that is described in this thread.
    They will concentrate on cameras with better noise behaviour (-> A500), features with market demand (video) and competition fom micro FT and Samsung's APS mirrorless camera. That's much more important for them than adressing the demand of minorities.

  28. #28
    vyanush
    Guest

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Another indication is from David Kilkpatrick:
    http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2009/0...-the-big-view/,
    note section at the bottom of A900 page that he found A700 softer than A900 and MUCH softer than A100 who was the sharpest to his eyes.
    IMHO that sounds promissing for all of us... Sony clearly has a handicup over Canikon in possible AA-weakening in the next FF-MP-Monster

  29. #29
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    A900's files are more than big enough for Sony's customers. These don't want to handle and save too big files.
    Well I'm a Sony customer and I can tell you that's completely wrong so far as I am concerned and I expect others feel the same. In fact its the high resolution / pixel count that attracted me to the A900 in the first place.

    AA filters have a function and Sony like all other mass market DSLR manufacturers use these filters for a good reason.
    Kodak produced the 760, 14nx and SLR/n and c without an AA filters, and the cameras were the better for it.

    Sony allready has the image of producing cameras with noise problem compared to Nikon and Canon.

    Therefore Sony will not ignore all theses circumstances and will not build the camera that is described in this thread.

    They will concentrate on cameras with better noise behaviour (-> A500), features with market demand (video) and competition fom micro FT and Samsung's APS mirrorless camera. That's much more important for them than adressing the demand of minorities.
    Well they might, but at the higher end, the demands of minorities become the demands of majorities. Budget DSLR users are different from more serious enthusiast and pro users. A removeable AA filter is an alternative to a fixed choice - as Kodak offered with the 760 and Mamiya offered with the ZD, for example.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  30. #30
    nautilus
    Guest

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quentin, I have no doubt that this forum has the highest BRPC (buying rate per capita) and it's users usually use the best of the best equipment. I think that quite a few that are here around would buy such a camera. And I understand the reasons that you've mentioned. But I think that this is not representative for the whole market.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    Quentin, I have no doubt that this forum has the highest BRPC (buying rate per capita) and it's users usually use the best of the best equipment. I think that quite a few that are here around would buy such a camera. And I understand the reasons that you've mentioned. But I think that this is not representative for the whole market.
    True, but what market are Sony targeting with their full frame high resolution dslr's? The point of high end dslr's is to service the more discerning and demanding end of the market. If that's Sony's objective, then my points hold true. If its not their objective, then I wonder what the point was of producing the A900 or a rumoured higher end model. For Sony to keep my custom, they need to meet pro end of the market demands because sure as heck, Canon and Nikon will and I have no real brand loyalty (I write as an ex Contax and Nikon user).

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  32. #32
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    True, but what market are Sony targeting with their full frame high resolution dslr's? The point of high end dslr's is to service the more discerning and demanding end of the market. If that's Sony's objective, then my points hold true. If its not their objective, then I wonder what the point was of producing the A900 or a rumoured higher end model. For Sony to keep my custom, they need to meet pro end of the market demands because sure as heck, Canon and Nikon will and I have no real brand loyalty (I write as an ex Contax and Nikon user).

    Quentin
    Could not agree more! Sony entered this game with a clear intent (part from others) to serve the high end pro market. So the A900 should just be their first step in that direction and I am waiting to see more high end.

    I also do no longer have any brand loyalty as ex Nikon, Contax, Canon and Olympus user. Take the system which suits me best at the given time!

  33. #33
    nautilus
    Guest

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    True, but what market are Sony targeting with their full frame high resolution dslr's?
    ...
    Quentin
    I think that up to now they are walking on the line that separates the enthusiastic amateurs and semi-professionals from the full professional customers.
    This is exactly the positioning that Minolta decided for for many years. Very good lenses, one high-end camera that was competitive with Nikon and Canon top cameras in many respects but not all, let me call it a lighthouse camera for the system. But without the professional services and broad range of a professional system.
    Konica Minolta including the former Minolta division was in the opinion that their customers (with exceptions of course) would not buy a camera above €2000. At least that was what they told me and indeed there never existed a higher camera. Probably due to the customer base that was developped by Minolta consisting mainly of amateur photographers.

    At the time Sony launched the A900 they hesitated to call the A900 a true professional camera. That has changed a bit. Now they clearly call the A900 and A850 professional cameras on their websites. This could be a hint that the Minolta and KonicaMinolta positioning will be left by Sony. I wish it for you and other more demanding customers.
    When? Market share could be an indicator. Sony started with around 10% which was exactly the share that KonicaMinolta had when they left the market.
    Sony customers were KonicaMinolta and Minolta customers. The last numbers I heared of were around 13% worldwide but these were 2008 data. I think that 20% or 25% could be the critical mass for entering the professional market more seriously. We expect more Zeiss lenses and a huge expensive tele lens that were displayed as demonstrators 2 or 3 years ago. These lenses make sense to be launched together with new cameras.

    These lenses were hold back.
    Why? Did they rework these lenses to be usable on new mirrorless camera designs with or without video? Or should they be launched as a full professional package together with a new pro camera?
    We will get the answer next year I think.
    There are rumours that Samsung will have two mirrorless cameras, on of them being fullframe. Maybe that's Sony's next camera as well.

  34. #34
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    Why? Did they rework these lenses to be usable on new mirrorless camera designs with or without video? Or should they be launched as a full professional package together with a new pro camera?
    We will get the answer next year I think.
    There are rumours that Samsung will have two mirrorless cameras, on of them being fullframe. Maybe that's Sony's next camera as well.
    Would make sense from this view, although I beg that they always will offer a high end (professional) camera with mirror - maybe I am old fashioned, but I really do not want to get into that EVF game when doing high end photography.

    I hope for more high end lenses, especially from Zeiss, like a 2.8/300 or even better a 2.8/120-300 like the one Sigma offers. And maybe also something in the range of a 200-400 like what is available for Nikon for years already. These would be the lenses I would buy more or less instantly, also for a higher price tag.

    Now again coming back to the sensor - most important thing here is that it comes without any AA filter - PLEASE!

  35. #35
    nautilus
    Guest

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    My biggest fear is that interesting new cameras work together with my lenses only via an adpater. One of my lenses has SSM, all the others mechanical coupled AF. I don't want to hear how they will rattle, get slow, backfocus due to such an adapter. Not to speak of changing lenses and adpters and that every lens gets physical longer (lens'+adpaters' lenght I mean).

    No AA filter means clearer and sharper pictures together with a CCD sensor. Was there ever a CMOS sensor without AA in the camera world? Will Sony sacrifice the benfits of the CMOS sensor in a DSLR like better noise behaviour? Will customers accept moiree in their pictures?

  36. #36
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    The way things are quickly developing, I can see Sony introducing their first full-frame evil camera soon. From there, the remaining days or years of Dslr are numbered. It was really weird that Sony coming so strong in the market would suddenly stop introducing new lenses for Dslr, does not announce an upgrade for the A700, even Zeiss must have been busy designing lenses for the new evil format. Now it is all starting to make more sense.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  37. #37
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    This is actually my dear old Contax G2 coming to life again. With a few select Zeiss primes, 100% EVF with no parallax, the possibility to AF anywhere in the frame...etc.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  38. #38
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Sony EVIL camera - at somyalpharumors ....

    http://sonyalpharumors.com/sr2-sony-evil-ccameras/

    If this becomes true and I have no doubt, and the EVFs are useable (enough pixel count and fast) then the MF world will be really shaking!

    Also it means you need new lenses for these beasts in order to come to maximum performance. So maybe it is wise to control investment in existing Alpha system.

  39. #39
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    And another hint on possible Sony EVIL

    http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk...8.html?aff=rss

  40. #40
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    34.8 meg ... that's okay. :sleep006: Pixel pitch will be getting pretty tiny here compared to a 39 meg MFD. Personally couldn't care less about cramming even more pixels into a 35mm frame.

    Here's the useful rumored news IMO:

    1/12,000 top shutter speed !!!!!!!!!!!!!! (no more flashing shutter speeds with the fast lenses outside)

    High speed flash sync @ 1/1,000 (Super useful for large aperture fill flash outdoors)

    Live View. (if like the Canon or Nikon versions ... WaHoo!)

    Tilting LCD

    Eye start AF (remains to be seen how well it works ... seemed okay in lesser Alpha cameras)

    Dual CF card slots. (doesn't say if it's dual simultaneous capture, but I'm going to assume so until informed differently ... this is a BIG deal for me).

    Anti-dust function

    HVL-F64AM flash is mentioned

    Hyper-focal AF option

    5 year warranty on parts and Labor ... Gold pro services mentioned.

    Weak:

    Top ISO 3200 ... which will be okay if ISO 1250 or 1600 is good.

    No mention I could find if it's 12, 14 or 16 bit.

    3 FPS max burst speed. This triggers worries about buffer speed in real world shooting.

    Really not interested in learning yet another Post program like DXO

    -Marc

  41. #41
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Really not interested in learning yet another Post program like DXO

    -Marc
    Same for me - enough programs already!

  42. #42
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    The way things are quickly developing, I can see Sony introducing their first full-frame evil camera soon. From there, the remaining days or years of Dslr are numbered. It was really weird that Sony coming so strong in the market would suddenly stop introducing new lenses for Dslr, does not announce an upgrade for the A700, even Zeiss must have been busy designing lenses for the new evil format. Now it is all starting to make more sense.
    I'm not so sure about that, Edward. 2009 has been the busiest year for the Sony DSLR division by far. 6 new camera bodies, and 6 new lenses (not including the shown tele prime) have become available this year. We all wish there were more Zeiss primes, but we mustn't forget that it's been three years since the first two were released, and Sony has done a lot since then.

  43. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    I wish there will be a firmware upgrade for A900/A850 to solve the noise problem, but a newer FF body should be no surprise to everyone. I also hope there will be a sport camera like 1D IV or D3s with tele lens. I really hate myself going for a 7D and 1D IV simply because of delayed Sony telephoto lens.

  44. #44
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
    I wish there will be a firmware upgrade for A900/A850 to solve the noise problem, but a newer FF body should be no surprise to everyone. I also hope there will be a sport camera like 1D IV or D3s with tele lens. I really hate myself going for a 7D and 1D IV simply because of delayed Sony telephoto lens.
    The noise problem isn't firmware fixable. It's a result of the denser CFA and better color separation that the A900 has over its competitors. Canon is trading color for high ISO. They say as much when mentioning their "more transparent color filters" in their 1D 1V and 5d ii press releases.

  45. #45
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    The noise problem isn't firmware fixable. It's a result of the denser CFA and better color separation that the A900 has over its competitors. Canon is trading color for high ISO. They say as much when mentioning their "more transparent color filters" in their 1D 1V and 5d ii press releases.
    Absolutely right, Douglas, but I have in mind a few things about noise that they can fix with firmware, but only affects jpgs of course.

    The NR off option still applies some NR. I would preferer a real NR off.

    The NR options use too much luminance NR and not enough chrominance NR, which results in plasticky looking files that still contain substantial colored blotches. I would prefere absolutely no luminance NR and more efficient chrominance NR, same way Nikon and Canon do it in their FF cameras.

    This does not affect me at all since I shoot raw exclusively but I may have considered shooting jpgs at a few occasions but decided not to because of the above issue.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  46. #46
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I'm not so sure about that, Edward. 2009 has been the busiest year for the Sony DSLR division by far. 6 new camera bodies, and 6 new lenses (not including the shown tele prime) have become available this year. We all wish there were more Zeiss primes, but we mustn't forget that it's been three years since the first two were released, and Sony has done a lot since then.
    Well, this is very true, even though Sony did not address the increasing demand to fill in the gaps in their lens line up, Zeiss or not, preferring to introduce APS-C lenses and a rebadged Tamron.

    However, what I really mean, is that with the current race to introduce evil cameras from all manufacturers, it is to be expected that the EVF technology will get better very quickly, to the point that it will be able to outperform OVFs in not so long time (it is still quite far but much better than a few years ago). That is why I believe that a company like Sony, who has a long history with EVF cameras (717, 828, R1) and video, will not need so long to develop its technology to the point that it can replace DSLR with mirrorless cameras. Actually I believe it has already done it, but the time is not yet right to release it.

    If my speculation is correct, I hope that Sony will not kill the Alpha mount and still use it in the future evil cameras.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  47. #47
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
    I wish there will be a firmware upgrade for A900/A850 to solve the noise problem, but a newer FF body should be no surprise to everyone. I also hope there will be a sport camera like 1D IV or D3s with tele lens. I really hate myself going for a 7D and 1D IV simply because of delayed Sony telephoto lens.
    Mark, I've found that in actual practice the A900 not only delivers better color out of the camera than any of my Canon's did, or current Nikon's do ... I've also mostly overcome any noise issue up to and including 1000. when evaluated in print form ... not pixel peeping on a 30" computer monitor.

    In studying Exif data of what I actually shoot at as opposed to what I think I want, I found real world ISOs rarely exceeded ISO 1000, and with my settings and processing techniques, the Sony noise is no better nor no worse than that of my second shooters using a 5Ds and 5DMKIIs in the same conditions (often standing right next to me) ... but the A900 color is definitely better.

    I process all wedding images from all cameras together by tossing them all into one folder and sorting by time shot. This means I can have up to 5 different cameras all mixed together (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Hasselblad) ... which is a really revealing exercise.

    -Marc

  48. #48
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Same observations from my side - if it comes to color, then this is my ranking:

    1) Sony
    2) Nikon
    3) Canon

  49. #49
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    +2

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Same observations from my side - if it comes to color, then this is my ranking:

    1) Sony
    2) Nikon
    3) Canon
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  50. #50
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Same observations from my side - if it comes to color, then this is my ranking:

    1) Sony
    2) Nikon
    3) Canon
    Agreed.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •