The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Finally a Carl Zeiss 24 mm f 2.0 coming

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Wedding was just an example Marc, I only speak for that which I know, any profession which requires backup on site would be the same would it not?
Not being a pro myself, but even as passionate non pro photographer I would not consider carrying 2 different DSLR systems at the same time, simply because operating these systems is so different that it just can be the source of failure.

Truth is that each system has its merits and drawbacks and all have their outstanding lenses etc. Unfortunately these are not coming from just 1 system.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Makes sense to me, Marc. Granted, your mentor's advice may need a little updating, because we don't all use the same "film" in cameras anymore, so the body makes more of a difference these days.

p.s. Man, I would kill for a couple of M9s!
That's about what you'd have to do to get two of them douglas. :wtf: I got one of the first 20 into the USA, then I dropped to the bottom of the list for the second one. So, until I get the M9 back-up, I'll have to drag the Sony bag of bricks to every wedding. A M8 is not an option, been there, done that.

M9 is the BEST 35mm camera I've ever used in terms of IQ to my eye. I only wish Leica had produced the AF R10 successor to the CCD DMR, which was the next best 35mm camera I've ever used regarding IQ. I just have never taken to any CMOS sensor camera ... the Sony probably being the closest.

My dream is to off the 35mm DSLRs completely like Jack just did. The latest crop of MFDs has raised my hopes that can be accomplished.

-Marc
 
T

Tony Beach

Guest
I missed these improvements at Sony so far, maybe they will come but I cannot see that happen anytime soon. Lenses like a 2/24 or similar are not what would make me buy into a prime, as long as I have a great and reasonably fast zoom in that area - as a 2.8/24-70. Maybe there is more vignetting with the zoom, but that can be easily corrected via any post processing SW.
Well, the Zeiss 24-70 is not "great" at 24mm, it has soft corners (not just vignetting, but completely smudged detail). The problem on the two copies I had was so bad that I'm on the fence about abandoning the 24-70 entirely and replacing it with primes. I can see doing 98% of my people shots using just two primes, the 24/2 and the 85/1.4, and that makes the 24-70 unnecessary weight.

As for Nikon, they don't have a 24 MP DSLR that I can afford. I am inclined to stick with both Sony and Nikon because I don't want to be dependent on just one brand delivering for me. I've been waiting two years for Nikon to deliver a camera like the A900, and it's starting to look like it's not going to ever happen. Besides that, I like the colors I get from my A850 better than anything I've seen from a Nikon camera.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well, the Zeiss 24-70 is not "great" at 24mm, it has soft corners (not just vignetting, but completely smudged detail). The problem on the two copies I had was so bad that I'm on the fence about abandoning the 24-70 entirely and replacing it with primes. I can see doing 98% of my people shots using just two primes, the 24/2 and the 85/1.4, and that makes the 24-70 unnecessary weight.

As for Nikon, they don't have a 24 MP DSLR that I can afford. I am inclined to stick with both Sony and Nikon because I don't want to be dependent on just one brand delivering for me. I've been waiting two years for Nikon to deliver a camera like the A900, and it's starting to look like it's not going to ever happen. Besides that, I like the colors I get from my A850 better than anything I've seen from a Nikon camera.
The Nikkor 24-70 is really a winner, I had this lens and if I had known how good it is compared to the Zeiss I would have never switched from N to S a year ago - almost sure.
 

douglasf13

New member
I certainly wouldn't say that the Nikkor 24-70 is a better lens than the Zeiss. Just different strengths/weaknesses. I'm not sure I've ever seen another zoom that has a better "look" to the pictures than the Zeiss.

I guess we should take your opinion with a grain of salt though, because two of the things that you mentioned that you disliked about the Sony, handling and color, are two of the major reasons most buy the camera in the first place. ;)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I certainly wouldn't say that the Nikkor 24-70 is a better lens than the Zeiss. Just different strengths/weaknesses. I'm not sure I've ever seen another zoom that has a better "look" to the pictures than the Zeiss.

I guess we should take your opinion with a grain of salt though, because two of the things that you mentioned that you disliked about the Sony, handling and color, are two of the major reasons most buy the camera in the first place. ;)
The Sony colors (camera) are great indeed. But what happened since the D3 that the Nikon colors out of the camera are at least as good. So the difference is the optics. I must say I really like Zeiss and I liked all my Hasselblad and Contax optics from Zeiss just because of the IQ they produced. But I cannot see this difference any more with the current Sony-Zeiss lenses. I am not saying the IQ and colors are better or worse than Nikon but I see mainly no more difference.

Adding that all up and have more flexible lens offering from Nikon my decision was clear. Maybe not urgent and I also do not earn my living with photography, because then I maybe would have not invested, but for me as a passionate photographer it was enough to switch.

And I must admit it is always nice to have something new to play with - of course.
 

douglasf13

New member
...And I must admit it is always nice to have something new to play with - of course.
Agreed! My M9 lust is pretty high. :)

As for colors, I have to disagree. On technical terms, the A900 is able to resolve more green hues than any Nikon since the D2x, and the D2x still wasn't quite up to the A900 in this regard. Now, whether you see that or not is, of course, another issue, but I suggest you reconsider your raw converter, profiling, etc. to maximize your A900 files before moving on to another brand, as it seems you may have not been getting the most out of the A900.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Agreed! My M9 lust is pretty high. :)

As for colors, I have to disagree. On technical terms, the A900 is able to resolve more green hues than any Nikon since the D2x, and the D2x still wasn't quite up to the A900 in this regard. Now, whether you see that or not is, of course, another issue, but I suggest you reconsider your raw converter, profiling, etc. to maximize your A900 files before moving on to another brand, as it seems you may have not been getting the most out of the A900.
My RAW converters were (are): C1Pro, Aperture 2 and 3 as well as LR2 and of course PS CS3 and 4. I have calibrated displays, one being an Eizo 24" latest generation which comes with a calibration device.

I am using a calibrated workflow.

I never liked the colors of the D2X, which was the issue to change finally to A900. So interesting that you put it above the newer Nikon cameras. I have seen numerous samples from D3, D300s, D3X and some D3s on this equipment and I find all of them equal or better to A900.

Either I am doing something wrong or I am color blind - no matter this is my impression and this is what finally counts for me.

PS1: all of these color reproductions can be just forgotten compared to my H3D39. This is also the reason why I am a bit more reluctant about exact color reproduction of my DSLR equipment, as for the real stuff I am using Hasselblad. Maybe I should not think like? Not sure, but this is the way I go.

As I said these decisions are all very subjective and may not be accurate for anyone else of course.

PS2: I actually never found the greens of the A900 so outstanding, I liked more the overall color reproduction, especially in the blues and reds, not the greens, which tended to be too yellowish - in all RAW converters.
 

Tex

Subscriber Member
Wow, this is incredible - something is wrong. I have owned the D2X, D3, D3X & D3s - all are sold and gone. No one approaches my a900, 24-70 and 135 1.8 in color reproduction.

Douglas told me (thanks a million Douglas) to use Raw Therapee last year and the results always bring a smile to my face.

These are my observations (including Douglas & Marc) and obviously differ from yours.

PS: Has anybody noticed how the build quality of Nikon lenses has fallen in the past few years?

Best Regards,

Robert
 

douglasf13

New member
I certainly don't use standard profiles for C1 and LR3 (of course, any adobe converter pre-LR3 isn't even worth mentioning for A900 files.) The C1 profile for the A900 is particularly bad. Anyways, we're confusing color accuracy with profiling. Below is probably one of the most enlightening, single posts about color that I've seen. Everyone should read it, if they haven't already. Peter, you may find the MFDB part particularly interesting:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/847088/2#7908771
 
T

Tony Beach

Guest
I have seen numerous samples from D3, D300s, D3X and some D3s on this equipment and I find all of them equal or better to A900.
I see a big difference between the colors coming from my D300 and A850, and I am much more impressed with the A850 colors.

Either I am doing something wrong or I am color blind - no matter this is my impression and this is what finally counts for me.

PS2: I actually never found the greens of the A900 so outstanding, I liked more the overall color reproduction, especially in the blues and reds, not the greens, which tended to be too yellowish - in all RAW converters.
It's about resolving colors, not about rendering them.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
@Robert and Tony

Well so be happy with your choice. If it brings the results you want and prefer, then it is perfect.

Enjoy!

PS: WRT build quality of Nikkor lenses it depends very much on the different models, but especially the new Nanocoated versions are superb build. I rather could not say the same about my Zeiss 16-35 and 24-70, which build quality and ergonomics did by no means impress me.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
My RAW converters were (are): C1Pro, Aperture 2 and 3 as well as LR2 and of course PS CS3 and 4. I have calibrated displays, one being an Eizo 24" latest generation which comes with a calibration device.

I am using a calibrated workflow.

I never liked the colors of the D2X, which was the issue to change finally to A900. So interesting that you put it above the newer Nikon cameras. I have seen numerous samples from D3, D300s, D3X and some D3s on this equipment and I find all of them equal or better to A900.

Either I am doing something wrong or I am color blind - no matter this is my impression and this is what finally counts for me.

PS1: all of these color reproductions can be just forgotten compared to my H3D39. This is also the reason why I am a bit more reluctant about exact color reproduction of my DSLR equipment, as for the real stuff I am using Hasselblad. Maybe I should not think like? Not sure, but this is the way I go.

As I said these decisions are all very subjective and may not be accurate for anyone else of course.

PS2: I actually never found the greens of the A900 so outstanding, I liked more the overall color reproduction, especially in the blues and reds, not the greens, which tended to be too yellowish - in all RAW converters.
It is not the end result, it is the process to get there. With effort I can make most any RAW file from a 20+ meg CMOS camera look as good as another ... and did so with the D3X ... which is notorious for relatively flat colors initially. Fine for those who wish to sit at a computer screen forever and a day. I prefer shooting to doing that : -)

Again, I make no claim to any superiority of any of these systems ... just a VERY personal preference for certain economies of my time and for spending as little on something I'm not fond of anyway ... namely CMOS sensored cameras with AA filters. I put the "Nikon Money" into more M gear, which I do prefer, so cost is no object : -) On the other hand, I'll NEVER spend $8K on a DSLR body again. NEVER.

-Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
@Robert and Tony

Well so be happy with your choice. If it brings the results you want and prefer, then it is perfect.

Enjoy!

PS: WRT build quality of Nikkor lenses it depends very much on the different models, but especially the new Nanocoated versions are superb build. I rather could not say the same about my Zeiss 16-35 and 24-70, which build quality and ergonomics did by no means impress me.
Nothing is really better than the next is it?

It's all subjective, or based on different experiences.

I see excellent build quailty from the ZAs and you don't. You see something from Nikon that attracts you, and I thought they were okay ... actually not okay when my new Nikon 24-70 broke in half revealing questionable materials used as the frame work ... looked like cheap pig metal of some type ... cracked right in half. Then it went to service and the part wasn't availabe for almost 2 months. To Nikon's credit, they finally just replaced the lens with a new one. But in the meantime I had to buy another to shoot my weddings with. Crap experience :thumbdown:

So, different strokes for different folks. It can happen with anything to anybody at any time.

But I don't go onto the Nikon forum and diss Nikon while lauding Sony. It's a waste of time.

And so is this.

-Marc
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Ouch! Aren't you an NPS member Marc? Just speaking to a friend, wedding shooter, going out of his mind with the D700 hotshoe issue and Nikon not having parts either. He ended up taking it to a private repair guy and finally getting it fixed. Got another friend, PJ, same issue with D700, ended up buying another while Nikon fixed his.

I've just been informed by Canon UK that they are starting a new 3 tier CPS service (although still free as it's pro only) - rather nervous about what they will change - the 3 day turnaround is worth its weight in gold and canon always have parts, etc.
 

dhsimmonds

New member
Agreed. The lack of a 200mm prime is a glaring hole in the current line-up, and I wonder which way they'll go with it?
I agree that a good Zeiss or Sony G 200 mm F2.0 macro would be a killer of a lens on the A900/850. I have seen some excellent results from the vintage Minolta versions which are now virtually unobtainable.
 
Top