Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 36 of 36

Thread: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

  1. #1
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Well, I've just made a discovery that should have been more obvious to me earlier. After complaining like a lot of users that my Leica M to E-mount adapter focused past infinity, I made another discovery today. My Sony issued A-mount to E-mount adapter does the same thing This leads me to believe one of three things:

    A) the tolerances of the camera aren't great, and my sensor and lens mount are too close together

    B) I just so happen to have two adapters that are off by approximately the same value

    C) There is something more to the idea that the AA filter or microlenses are further than normal away from the sensor, and that is causing the variation. See this thread: http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/...hp?f=49&t=4419

    So, I was hoping that a few of you could throw on the various adapters you have for your NEX camera and do a manual focus zoom at infinity to see if yours is slightly off as well. That could help me narrow down the cause. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    First off, I sincerely hope that folks would leave the AA filter alone in their discussions. No one knows anything about the AA filter, even when you take them apart, nothing can be gleaned from them.

    I only have the RJ c-mount adapter which after my adaptation also doubles as a pen F adapter.

    I have no problems with infinity focus of c-mount lenses or pen F lenses.

    Using the c-mount, I can also mount:

    1. Minolta MD

    2. Olympus OM

    3. Nikon F

    all via the corresponding c to XX mount adapters.

    No worries there.

    The supplied kit lens 16/2.8 can focus way past infinity if one needs it. Adding a diopter lens to it, I can still focus close to infinity while getting close-up capabilities down to ~5cm.

    BTW, what makes you suspect the tolerances of the camera registry based on the adapters? Who sets the standards for these adapters?

    Is your Leica M lens sample calibrated for infiniity?

    Way too many variables, Douglas.

    IMHO, this issue (a non issue) is the least of NEX' problems.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    495
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Both my leica m and canon eos reaches infinity focus before the infinity mark.

  4. #4
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Vivek, I'm not talking about the qualities of the AA filter itself, but rather its distance from the sensor. Regardless, it is probably a red herring. Just so I am clear, you're saying that, when you line up the infinity mark on all of your adapted lenses, they are actually focused to infinity? On mine, lining up the infinity mark is actually past infinity. Granted, like I mentioned, we're only talking about two adapters here.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    135
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    46

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    I am using the RJ adapter and all of the M Leica and Voigtlander lenses reach infinity focus before the point marked for infinity on the lens. The mismatch is more than what I found with the Voigtlander M adapter for m43, but does not bother me because I use focus assist and never zone focus with the NEX. Of course, I assume I am losing a little range at the close end, which is a mild annoyance.

  6. #6
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Yeah, I use the focus assist, too. I agree that loosing a little close end range would be annoying.

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Vivek, I'm not talking about the qualities of the AA filter itself, but rather its distance from the sensor. Regardless, it is probably a red herring. Just so I am clear, you're saying that, when you line up the infinity mark on all of your adapted lenses, they are actually focused to infinity? On mine, lining up the infinity mark is actually past infinity. Granted, like I mentioned, we're only talking about two adapters here.

    I am saying that is a non issue due to live view and magnified focus assist possibilities with a live view cam.

    On the m4/3rds, where I have dedicated lenses (adapted), I set the infinity by adjusting the focus scale on the lenses. The pen F lenses (most of them) close focus better than the Leica M/LTM lenses, so no worries about close focusing.

    If I use a Cosina 35/1.4, specifically for the NEX (and no RF use at all), I would adjust the lens or use thin shims to adjust the adapter thickness for a given lens or a set of lenses.

    This is one of the strong points of the live view cams as opposed to the RF ones where you will have to dig up the addresses of DAG or Sherry to get the cam aligned and the lens aligned/collimated and the RF patches aligned.

    I still have painful memories of getting the Canon 50/0.95 (leica M mount) collimated so that the focus would be accurate. That is what led me away from the RF cams and once live view came about there was no turning back.

    Add to this the fact about focus shifts- there are shifts associated even with aperture changes (few lenses, thankfully) and in my case, focus shift due to wavelength change. UV focus is different than visible focus and that is quite different than IR focus.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    all of my NEX adapters are from RJ and all allow focus past infinity (as they are supposed to). most cheap adapters are designed to allow for focus past infinity in order to make up for slop in machining precision (better going past infinity than not reaching it). i am surprised to hear that the sony adapter doesn't hit infinity bang on. i'm assuming alpha lenses don't focus past infinity on your a900? if not my best guess would be that sony is simply being economical and not bothering to be to precise with flange to sensor distance since precision doesn't matter for cdaf the way it does for a viewfinder + phase detect autofocus. as Vivek say's there is plenty of extra throw in the kit lens(es) to compensate for wide tolerances in sensor positioning.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    145
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    All manual focus lens have some sort of adjustment to set infinite focus so they can be set up at the factory. Ya just need to adjust your lens to the adapter / camera.

    Tim

  10. #10
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Sebboh, yeah, you're probably right about the Sony adapter. Just poor tolerances.

    tmessenger, my Alpha lenses focus fine on my A900, so I'm pretty sure it isn't the lenses.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    145
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Sebboh, yeah, you're probably right about the Sony adapter. Just poor tolerances.

    tmessenger, my Alpha lenses focus fine on my A900, so I'm pretty sure it isn't the lenses.
    I was referring to MF lenses only AF lenses are a different beast.

    Tim

  12. #12
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    My adapted m42 lenses are also fine on my A900. If I adjust them to focus properly at infinity on NEX, then they will be off on the A900.

  13. #13
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    I shimmed my RJ adapter for my M lens and it focuses right to infinity as it should. It took a few tries though.
    V/r John

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Noosa Australia
    Posts
    61
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Both my Leica M adapter and the Contax one go past infinity. I shimmed the Leica adapter so it is pretty close now but only close.


    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Well, I've just made a discovery that should have been more obvious to me earlier. After complaining like a lot of users that my Leica M to E-mount adapter focused past infinity, I made another discovery today. My Sony issued A-mount to E-mount adapter does the same thing This leads me to believe one of three things:

    A) the tolerances of the camera aren't great, and my sensor and lens mount are too close together

    B) I just so happen to have two adapters that are off by approximately the same value

    C) There is something more to the idea that the AA filter or microlenses are further than normal away from the sensor, and that is causing the variation. See this thread: http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/...hp?f=49&t=4419

    So, I was hoping that a few of you could throw on the various adapters you have for your NEX camera and do a manual focus zoom at infinity to see if yours is slightly off as well. That could help me narrow down the cause. Thanks!

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I shimmed my RJ adapter for my M lens and it focuses right to infinity as it should. It took a few tries though.


  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    All of my adapters (RJ, Kipon, etc.) for my Contax G, Nikon F, Canon EOS, Leica M do focus past infinity. That becomes a problem for me since I want to use the NEX as an aerial photography camera. The best I can do right now is to pre-focus the lens on the ground to infinity and tape the focus dial so it won't move when I mount the camera to my radio control helicopter. The lens I try to use is the Sam Yang 14 mm f2.8.

    I also have the 16mm f2.8 which is a good enough lens. However there is no distance mark for manual focus and it also focus way past infinity.

    I have a hard time doing manual focus from the LCD in bright sun. Zooming in and focusing is just too cumbersome. So I am trying to build a little view finder box with a magnifying glass to clip on the LCD screen.

  17. #17
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Hmm, it just seems strange to me that none of my adapters for DSLRs have this problem, yet all of the NEX adapters seem to so far.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Hmm, it just seems strange to me that none of my adapters for DSLRs have this problem, yet all of the NEX adapters seem to so far.
    most of my adapters for dslr have this problem as well. i've heard of a few people with canon dslrs having the opposite problem with their adapters.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by HansenTsang View Post
    All of my adapters (RJ, Kipon, etc.) for my Contax G, Nikon F, Canon EOS, Leica M do focus past infinity. That becomes a problem for me since I want to use the NEX as an aerial photography camera. The best I can do right now is to pre-focus the lens on the ground to infinity and tape the focus dial so it won't move when I mount the camera to my radio control helicopter. The lens I try to use is the Sam Yang 14 mm f2.8.

    I also have the 16mm f2.8 which is a good enough lens. However there is no distance mark for manual focus and it also focus way past infinity.

    I have a hard time doing manual focus from the LCD in bright sun. Zooming in and focusing is just too cumbersome. So I am trying to build a little view finder box with a magnifying glass to clip on the LCD screen.
    may i recommend shimming your adapter till you have infinity? the best method i've found to do this is to fold up a sheet of tin foil a number of times and then cut out a ring from the folded tin foil that matches the interior of the adapter. place the stack of tin foil rings in between the part of the adapter that connects to the lens and the rest of the adapter. check infinity focus. hopefully it now no longer reaches infinity (if it still focuses past infinity you need more tin foil rings). take out the tin foil rings one at a time checking infinity focus each time till it is dead on.

  20. #20
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    On the subject of adjusting adapters, I just got an RJ M39-NEX adapter and the lens ends up offset rotationally. I.e., the normal top position of the lens is about 30 degrees to the left. Is there a way to adjust the adapter to allow the lens to return to the top position?

    Cheers,

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    On the subject of adjusting adapters, I just got an RJ M39-NEX adapter and the lens ends up offset rotationally. I.e., the normal top position of the lens is about 30 degrees to the left. Is there a way to adjust the adapter to allow the lens to return to the top position?

    Cheers,
    yes: the RJ adapter is made of two pieces, an outer black aluminum piece and an inner chromed brass piece that sits inside. the inner piece is held in place by 3 set screws that can be seen inset around the the outer ring of the adapter. if you loosen these screws the inner ring can be rotated. you could do this with the lens mounted to the adapter to make alignment easy or you could mark on the adapter the distance you want to rotate the inner m39 threads and then remove the lens for realignment.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebboh View Post
    may i recommend shimming your adapter till you have infinity? .
    I believe the "Jinfinance" M-NEX adapter has a mechanism that will enable the adapter itself to be adjusted, without the need for any shimming. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the below link, to see how they do it.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/leica-M-lens-Son...item2eae43b765
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

  23. #23
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebboh View Post
    yes: the RJ adapter is made of two pieces, an outer black aluminum piece and an inner chromed brass piece that sits inside. the inner piece is held in place by 3 set screws that can be seen inset around the the outer ring of the adapter. if you loosen these screws the inner ring can be rotated. you could do this with the lens mounted to the adapter to make alignment easy or you could mark on the adapter the distance you want to rotate the inner m39 threads and then remove the lens for realignment.
    Sebboh,

    Thanks, I'd seen the screws and had assumed that might allow it, but it's nice to have the confirmation.

    Thanks,

  24. #24
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by roweraay View Post
    I believe the "Jinfinance" M-NEX adapter has a mechanism that will enable the adapter itself to be adjusted, without the need for any shimming. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the below link, to see how they do it.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/leica-M-lens-Son...item2eae43b765
    I believe that this only adjusts the tightness of the bayonet mount. I can't see how it would allow focus adjustment.

    Cheers,

  25. #25
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    My jinfinance adapter doesn't have that gap on it.
    V/r John

  26. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    I believe that this only adjusts the tightness of the bayonet mount. I can't see how it would allow focus adjustment.

    Cheers,
    correct that is for adjusting how tightly the lens bayonet fits. it has no effect on infinity focus.

  27. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    My jinfinance adapter doesn't have that gap on it.
    is it an m-mount adapter (not ltm or anything else)? i've heard jinfinance is actually a few different manufacturers so it is possible some are made differently than others or that the design has evolved.

  28. #28
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    I have a question that i hope someone knows an answer. When shooting in "Anti Blur" or "Hand Held Twilight" using MF, as soon as you press the MF assist button it places the area under magnification at the far upper left corner rather than the center of the frame. I can't seem to find a way to have it default to the center instead of the upper left corner. Anyone else have this experience and if so did you find a solution?
    V/r John

  29. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I have a question that i hope someone knows an answer. When shooting in "Anti Blur" or "Hand Held Twilight" using MF, as soon as you press the MF assist button it places the area under magnification at the far upper left corner rather than the center of the frame. I can't seem to find a way to have it default to the center instead of the upper left corner. Anyone else have this experience and if so did you find a solution?
    mine starts in the center of the frame in both those modes. i believe it depends on what type of autofocus mode the camera was in last (center, auto, moveable single point, etc).

  30. #30
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    It doesn't seem to make any difference what focus mode I have set prior. I am stumped!

    I just discovered that if in MF mode with a manual lens it does start in the center but if in DMF mode with either manual or AF lens, when MF assist is initiated either by the button push with manual lenses or the turning of the focus ring on AF lenses it starts in the upper left corner.
    V/r John

  31. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    It doesn't seem to make any difference what focus mode I have set prior. I am stumped!

    I just discovered that if in MF mode with a manual lens it does start in the center but if in DMF mode with either manual or AF lens, when MF assist is initiated either by the button push with manual lenses or the turning of the focus ring on AF lenses it starts in the upper left corner.
    mine behaves the same way, didn't notice since i'm always in MF mode lately. there are some autofocus modes that will produce the same behavior (focus assist in the top left corner) in all shooting modes when you mount a manual focus lens.

  32. #32
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    I'm guessing this must be a firmware bug. Anyone that has an in with SOny, you might let them know about this bug. It really makes it slow to use the DMF mode when you have to move the focus point to the center of the frame each time before you shoot or conversely if you will be switching back and forth between manual focus lenses and the NEX lenses you have to change the focus mode first. Otherwise you could leave it in DMF for both.
    V/r John

  33. #33
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebboh View Post
    may i recommend shimming your adapter till you have infinity? the best method i've found to do this is to fold up a sheet of tin foil a number of times and then cut out a ring from the folded tin foil that matches the interior of the adapter. place the stack of tin foil rings in between the part of the adapter that connects to the lens and the rest of the adapter. check infinity focus. hopefully it now no longer reaches infinity (if it still focuses past infinity you need more tin foil rings). take out the tin foil rings one at a time checking infinity focus each time till it is dead on.
    If I may, another question on this to clarify...

    Do you place the foil shims on the inside of the adapter? Is the object to push the lens away from the body/adapter combo slightly so the lens can reach infinity focus fully racked out?

    I need to do this for several lens/adapter combos so I want to be sure of the methodology.

    Cheers,

  34. #34
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    You normally, remove the 4 screws that hold the lens mount to the adapter and place the shim between it and the adapter and screw the 4 screws back in. We are talking about very small increments. The thickness of a piece of paper or heavy duty aluminum foil. It sure would be nice if the vendors offered pre-machines shims in metal that one could try until the right thickness was found. It has the effect of moving the lens slightly further out from the sensor. If you have a micrometer you could measure the required thickness by visually focusing on a distant object (infinity) and measuring the lens end to fixed portion of lens, then mechanically setting lens to infinity and remeasuring and taking the difference between the two readings.
    V/r John

  35. #35
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    Thanks John.

    Cheers,

  36. #36
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: NEX-5 and infinity focus. A question for you.

    I now have my infinity focus spot on but it was not easy. I purchased four 1/8" retaining rings-External Copper Plated at Lowes. They are .25mm thick. As it turns out that is slightly too thick but it was the thinest smallest I could find. I then used my Dremel tool to grind away some of the metal from the back of the flange at each of the screw hole locations. I placed a retaining ring at each screw hole, carefully lowered the ring in place and screwed the 4 screws in slowly tightening but not too tight and testing how smoothly the lens turned and locked. I then took pictures at infinity and compared them to pictures I had taken of the same subject when I manually focused for infinity prior to any modification. I took shots at f2.8 and f5.6. It took several iterations of removing the ring, grinding some more metal off, reassembling and testing again. Before the modifications infinity focus showed 10' on the lens barrel and now it shows infinity.

    I almost thought I was there when I was getting sharp images at 5.6 and slightly softer images at f2.8 but further tweaking and comparison with shots taken when it would focus past infinity convinced me I wasn't quite there and sure enough, further tweaks got me right on so at f2.8 it looks very sharp just like at f5.6 for the same distant object.
    V/r John

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •