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Thread: Sony A77

  1. #101
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    The more I look into the features of the A77 and what Sony has on their plate for the future, the more interesting this concept gets for me

  2. #102
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    Re: Sony A77

    According to the newest rumor the A77 will be released in Japan on 16 September 2011 and in USA and Europe somewhere between 10-27 October 2011.
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes Jono, it'll put me off unless it is a substantial improvement over the A55 ... which it may well be. I'm more interested in the high ISO IQ as a suppliment to the A900 for wedding work.

    -Marc
    I echo Marc's sentiments. If the A77's IQ at high-iso exceeds my D700, I may well jump ship to be able to use the Zeiss AF glass.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Hi, Peter. There've already been sizing approximations done by various people, and it looks to be a little bigger than my NEX-5 with a leather half-case on it. So, while it is a little bigger than current NEX cameras, it isn't anywhere near M9 size. The Zeiss 24 in the rumored photos looks to be just a tad longer than the kit zoom.

    Hi Douglas,

    If it's anything SAR seems to hint that the NEX 7 may indeed be close in size to an M9, which wouldn't be bad in my opinion. In fact very much welcome.

    P

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  5. #105
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    Re: Sony A77

    Yeah, I think the person that SAR used as a reference must not have really handled an M9 before. Here is another comparison from another forum:


  6. #106
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    +1

    and market share cannot be earned by bringing out big number of new and in fact useless camera models, rather show a clear line of consumer and pro gear and evolve that over the years. This is I am totally missing.

    Also they have that great cooperation with Zeiss, so why do we not yet see a lineup of Zeiss tele primes and zooms like 2.8/300, 2.8/400, 4/100-400 etc, etc ??? They are missing on a definite opportunity also in this area!

    And further - I owned the Zeiss 2.8/16-35 and 2.8/24-70, but both lenses did by far not convince me. All my Nikon and Canon counterparts were simply better - WRT optical quality as well as mechanics and stability and haptics.

    So I think Sony can produce great sensors, but delivering on cameras or even more systems they fail.

    This was the main reason I went out of this system some 18 months ago and it will be hard to convince me to go back.
    Agree and disagree.

    Agree that for some including me, (but not everyone), a plethora of novelty cameras is a waste of time and energy. This isn't elitist, it's based on need and srandards which vary for each person. I have little interest in more toys and so called innovations that have little relationship to real world needs ... (even though I have very diversified needs, I found them to be mostly useless). I sometimes buy one of these things just to see what the hub-bub is all about (Like the A55), and find them more hub-bub than a serious tool ... something I need to stop wasting money on.

    I'd have to subjectively disagree on the lens thing. I actually shot my Sony A900 side-by-side with a Nikon D3X for thousands of images. The Zeiss feel is my preference by a fair margin over the Nikon Nano coated counter-parts that, while technically well behaved, have less emotional or artistic guts in how they render. Different strokes for different folks.

    I dumped the Nikon stuff once the Sony A900 and ZAs proved robust enough to withstand the rigors of relentless wedding and portrait work that I use these cameras for. In comparison, my Nikon 24-70 broke in half twice because of the pig-iron (or whatever it is) frame casting inside the lens. Having the KEY wedding lens go down twice in one year isn't funny ... at all. Bad luck? Maybe. However, twice with two different lenses, makes me more suspicious.

    Zero issues with the A900s and all of the lenses almost three years running. I think that may be the longest I've ever stuck with the same 35mm DSLR camera body. I have no intention of replacing a well proven kit with an unknown to get more meg or some initial innovation of dubious real world use ... unless it adds other benefits not available with my S2 or other high IQ system ... like truly usable higher ISO without giving up file size and IQ for the majority of the shots that do not need anything over ISO 800 or 1,000 which the A900 does quite well already.

    Currently my S2/A900/M9 team meets or exceeds 98% of my varying demands ... I don't need toys, I need substantive stuff that improves on this, not something that does the same thing in a different way.

    -Marc

  7. #107
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    ... The Zeiss feel is my preference by a fair margin over the Nikon Nano coated counter-parts that, while technically well behaved, have less emotional or artistic guts in how they render. Different strokes for different folks.
    ...

    -Marc
    My experience mirrors what Marc have just said. While Nikon 24-70/2.8 is almost a 'perfect' lens, I much prefer the rendering style of Zeiss ZA zoom.

  8. #108
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    Re: Sony A77

    +1 on the rendering qualities of Zeiss glass. The ZF.2 lenses I have tested are stellar performers but the lack of auto-focus keeps them in my "artsy lens" category. If the A77 and the A99 come through as promised, I will move just gain access to the Zeiss glass.
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  9. #109
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    A

    Currently my S2/A900/M9 team meets or exceeds 98% of my varying demands ... I don't need toys, I need substantive stuff that improves on this, not something that does the same thing in a different way.

    -Marc
    Mine would as well (if I had an S2 )
    Still, I agree with pretty much everything you say . . . despite serious GAS attacks my principle gear always seems to gravitate back to the A900 and the M9.

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  10. #110
    Senior Member hot's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Last edited by hot; 21st August 2011 at 16:45.

  11. #111
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    Re: Sony A77

    Yes I just posted these images to my blog as well.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Sony A77

    I will be very interested to see if the viewfinder is useable with polarized sunglasses.

  13. #113
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    Re: Sony A77

    Did they get rid of steady shot? Don't see it on these photos

  14. #114
    Senior Member ecsh's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Probably a menu item only as in some of the other models.

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    Re: Sony A77

    The wait is finally over. Sony has formally announced the A77. More info at http://dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta77/.

  16. #116
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    Re: Sony A77

    . . .. and I've formally ordered one. looks great to me.

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  17. #117
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    . . .. and I've formally ordered one. looks great to me.
    LOL,
    I am looking for a button to push to do that too.
    -bob

  18. #118
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    LOL,
    I am looking for a button to push to do that too.
    -bob
    I had to push several buttons - on my talky thing, then have a chat with the nice man at Park cameras - he said that I'm first in line (which is always nice).
    October for the A77, and when I've had some fun with that there'll be an Nex7 in November.

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  19. #119
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    Re: Sony A77

    I'm trying to be skeptical here, but after looking at some samples from dpr, I'm officially impressed. They look good, and that lens can't be too shabby either. Surprisingly sharp in the corners, even at 16mm.

    But... a buffer of only 13 RAW files when the camera shoots at 12fps... isn't that on the skinny side. Even an F6 can shoot for 4 seconds before it runs out of steam. And... according to Imaging Resource (thank you for the link, Jono) they have not solved the viewfinder delay problem. One still sees the last shot, not the actual action. In the marketing video for the A77, they make it look like one can follow action during a burst, but it's done head-on, and it wouldn't work well with a pan shot. The fast frame rate helps a lot of course, since one will get an impression of what is going on simply by watching the photos as they appear in the viewfinder, but 12fps the whole day a whole race weekend? That sounds like 10,000+ photos after one weekend.

    Back to the drawing board (or to Nikon).
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 24th August 2011 at 04:22.

  20. #120
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'm trying to be skeptical here, but after looking at some samples from dpr, I'm officially impressed. They look good, and that lens can't be too shabby either. Surprisingly sharp in the corners, even at 16mm.

    But... a buffer of only 13 RAW files when the camera shoots at 12fps... isn't that on the skinny side. Even an F6 can shoot for 4 seconds before it runs out of steam. And... according to Imaging Resource (thank you for the link, Jono) they have not solved the viewfinder delay problem. One still sees the last shot, not the actual action. In the marketing video for the A77, they make it look like one can follow action during a burst, but it's done head-on, and it wouldn't work well with a pan shot. The fast frame rate helps a lot of course, since one will get an impression of what is going on simply by watching the photos as they appear in the viewfinder, but 12fps the whole day a whole race weekend? That sounds like 10,000+ photos after one weekend.

    Back to the drawing board (or to Nikon).
    10,000 at that size (phew!). Still, they were working on 0.58 firmware, so it may be different when it appears. But I can see you're point. Doesn't bother me, as the 12fps is the least of my interest.

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  21. #121
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    Re: Sony A77

    jono and Bob, I as well pulled he trigger and pre ordered a a77. Estimated date for the USA will be Oct 19th just in time for some fall mountain stream shots and the return of the eagles at Conowingo Dam.

    Now, it is the worst part of this .... waiting and reading all the negative comments and stone throwing from the pixel peeper's and nay sayers

  22. #122
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    stone throwing from the pixel peeper's and nay sayers
    Don't worry about it. After I got my a900 I did a lot of pixel peeping too, and was shocked at the "noise" in the files......




    ...Until I started making some really big (20x30" and 24x36" prints). The stuff they are looking at will never be seen at "normal" resolutions. Going to a file this big takes some adjustment in how you look at it...


    However, as tempting as this camera is, I think I'm holding off until the FF comes out next year.
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  23. #123
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    Re: Sony A77

    Well, you'd better carry LOTS of batteries because according to DPReview "The A77 uses the familiar FM500H battery that dates back to the A700. It's an 11.8Wh battery that the A77 can get 530 shots out of when using the rear display and 470 shots when using the viewfinder, according to CIPA standard testing."

    At 12fps, that's 39 SECONDS of shooting. Okay, you don't hold the shutter release down for 39 seconds (the buffer only holds 13 RAWs) but really, when I shoot a pro lacrosse game I take 1500-2000 shots per game with my Canon 1Dm4 using part of 1 battery. On the A77 that would take 5 batteries per game. DEAL BREAKER for pro sports. They need a pro battery grip ASAP that extends the life to more than 2000 shots.
    Brad Husick

  24. #124
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    Re: Sony A77

    I have to agree with Lonnie. Looking at the files onscreen is never a substitute for looking at them on their destination media. If Sony I'd serious about getting SLT into the pro mainstream (vs. the consumer mainstream), they quickly need to address the technical shortcomings of their offering that will put a lot of pros off.

    I, for one, am interested in the high-iso performance. The sensor crop works to my benefit as I like to shoot from the back of the venue and finding long, fast glass can get ridiculously expensive. The Nikon D300s did not have the high-iso I needed and thus I shoot with a D700. The A77 holds promise, but I am also waiting to see what Nikon has to offer.
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  25. #125
    Senior Member mathomas's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Looks like a very nice piece.

    Re batteries: my A55 eats batteries like they're M&Ms. I can imagine the A77 is pretty voracious, too (though it's probably a different battery). I hope they've fixed the overheating issue, too, for the A77. It's only bitten me a couple of times, for a short period.

    I'll probably stick with the A55 since it's so nicely small and 16MP is enough for me. I shoot film for the "important" stuff, anyway . I'll definitely have to play with an A77 sometime (or maybe I shouldn't....).

  26. #126
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    Re: Sony A77

    I don't take 2000 shots in 6 months ... I'm kinda old school in my method of capture. More in line with how I used my view cameras ..... The only time I used sequential shooting setting is on BIF shots otherwise it's one frame per shutter activation so battery life will never be an issue with me as it hasn't been with my current SLT especially once I can find someone selling the vertical grip.

    All my minolta/Sony glass works on crop sensor Sony cameras (many of my lenses won't on FF sensors) plus I like the lens factor/cost advantage crop sensor cameras offer in super long telephoto wildlife photography so a full frame camera is not in my plans anytime soon.

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    Re: Sony A77

    More so than anything else, I think this camera puts pressure on Canon and Nikon to improve performance and costs. At $1400 it's obviously it's aimed at the 7d and d7000 market. I'm sure that if the price of the Dollar vs the Yen hadn't gone sideways recently, it would been closer to the $1000 mark we heard a few months ago.

    With a few exceptions, feature for feature, this camera trumps both offerings from Canon and Nikon. Resolution (total megapixels), Steady shot, AF speed, FPS, GPS etc, etc. Now we need to see if the IQ is there in the RAW files (I don't put too much stock in OOC jpgs). If it is, look out big boys....

    It is going to be interesting to see how this shakes out and how the "big two" react. I don't think they can continue going they way they've gone or they are going to get passed by....
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  28. #128
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    Re: Sony A77

    Granted, but I purely hope that Sony will have some other battery solution in the pipe if they want pro shooters to take this camera seriously. That and the anemic buffering.

    Jim, it's not a question of being old school, when i shoot live dance performances i don't have the luxury of telling the dancers to do a routine over so I can get a better shot of it. That is reserved for the studio stuff.
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  29. #129
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    Re: Sony A77

    The battery life question is interesting.
    One of the reviews said they got 870 shots and 30 minutes of video out of a charge - the battery grip holds two batteries.

    But even if it only takes 450 shots on a battery - that's twelve times as many shots as a roll of film, and a spare battery is cheap as chips, and smaller than a roll of film. I understand why Carlos and Brad need to take a lot of shots, but is 500 shots (or 1000 with the grip) really that much of a hardship? If the raw files are the same size as the A900 it sounds like you'll need to change 16gb cards at almost exactly the same time!

    all the best

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    Re: Sony A77

    Paul Genge just said on the Sony UK Facebook webcast that the battery is rated for 4-5 hours of continuous use, video, or stills. Don't worry about the # of shots, just an average for the average user.
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    Re: Sony A77

    Carlos, I fully understand your situation and back in the 60's I shot sports for a local paper and thought we really had the bomb with 3-5fps motor drives though most times we would still shoot both eyes open and fire of one to three shots to get the second base ball in glove base runner tag shots but we had no choice but to live with the technology that existed. If I was doing that kind of photography I am sure I would be smoking the megapixels like everyone else. I stand at the railing at Conowingo dam photographing the bald eagles next to guys that sound like they are running video cameras the way they fire off their shots. Last year I could of done 7fps but still just used the slower setting instead judiciously.

    But, as I said if I needed to smoke um off I surely would give the ole 12fps a go! I have nothing against that technique what so ever. My primary photography anymore is scenics, wildlife, and outdoor sportsmens photos. With only a few exceptions it is set up and wait shooting

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    Re: Sony A77

    Hey Jim. I fully appreciate the film situation with activities like sports and stage productions. I cut my eye teeth with film as well, but in the 70's. I did not mean to imply that my technique was based on "spray and pray" (so many are these days), but like you said, having the 12 fps is nice for those kinds of moments.

    Jono, in a perfect world, the dance companies would allow me to attend the full dress rehearsal so i could get the timing down. In reality, I am usually hired the day before the show and 98% of the time I don't even get a chance to look at the program. Turkey doesn't get much colder than that.
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    I stand at the railing at Conowingo dam photographing the bald eagles next to guys that sound like they are running video cameras the way they fire off their shots.
    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    "spray and pray" (so many are these days), but like you said, having the 12 fps is nice for those kinds of moments.
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    . . .. and I've formally ordered one. looks great to me.
    Oh no What are you gonna offload on me now?.
    Think you should get rid off all your stuff, stop messing around and get an S2, all the rest are compromises and you know it
    Cheers
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    Re: Sony A77 vs NEX 3 IQ

    I've printed Imaging resource sample images (the mannequin still life) from the A77 and NEX 3 at base ISO for both at the maximum size I can squeeze on to A3 paper (on my R2400).

    Having carefully scrutinised the prints under bright light close up through reading glasses the only meaningful difference I can detect is a bit of colour moire in the manniquin's wig from the NEX 3 ( I assume that means the A77 has a stronger AA filter).

    It seems that if you are printing on a desktop printer there is little or no resolution advantage from the 24MP sensor.

    That'll save a lot of dosh then,

    Cheers

    Dave

  36. #136
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    Re: Sony A77

    Well over 95% of those buying these cameras will probably never print larger than A4 and would be very well off with 6MP

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Well over 95% of those buying these cameras will probably never print larger than A4 and would be very well off with 6MP
    Yes, we 95% do not print large. Also, many of us do not nail composition; often we make up for that with a crop in post-processing. That's where more good-quality pixels help.
    Last edited by Charles2; 24th August 2011 at 19:29. Reason: Grammar

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    Re: Sony A77

    i'm anxious to see what the RAW files look like.

    not to be a debby downer...but...

    sony's jpegs (supposedly early firmware...blah blah blah) from this camera look attrocious, with really bizarre looking artifacts, and lots of smoothing even at low-moderate ISOs. and it could be the lens, or the jpegs, or the photographers shooting at f/8 when diffraction should start about there, or slightly wider...whatever, but they just don't look like i would expect 24mp to look like (comparing to 12mp DX, nevermind 22mp MF)

    i'm way more interested in the nex-7. though at ~$2200 with the zeiss 24, i'm not sure i'm interested in that either at this point when fuji likely has a system forthcoming (and has proven their mettle with the x100)

    *sigh*

    the rest of the specs look awesome. and i imagine the final firmware will clean things up a bit as well, as the a700 update did so miraculously years ago.

    definitely curious to see what their next FF effort looks like.
    --David

  39. #139
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles2 View Post
    Yes, we 95% do not print large. Also, many of us do not nail composition; often we make up for that with a crop in post-processing. That's where more good-quality pixels help.
    Since you can make rather sharp A4 prints already with 3MP, 24MP should give you around A1 format (84 x 60cm). That reminds me of a journalist I met many years ago who only had one lens, a 35mm. "I just point the camera in the general direction of the subject and let the desk staff choose the cropping" was his mantra.

    A NEX-7, the 24mm and nothing else? Maybe that's the solution

  40. #140
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    Re: Sony A77 vs NEX 3 IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by davemillier View Post
    I've printed Imaging resource sample images (the mannequin still life) from the A77 and NEX 3 at base ISO for both at the maximum size I can squeeze on to A3 paper (on my R2400).

    Having carefully scrutinised the prints under bright light close up through reading glasses the only meaningful difference I can detect is a bit of colour moire in the manniquin's wig from the NEX 3 ( I assume that means the A77 has a stronger AA filter).

    It seems that if you are printing on a desktop printer there is little or no resolution advantage from the 24MP sensor.

    That'll save a lot of dosh then,

    Cheers

    Dave
    A 4000 pixels and 15.6mm tall sensor calls for a lens that delivers 256 lines per milimeter (128 line pairs/mm). In fact taking into account AA/IR glass plate and debayer algorithm losses, the lens resolution should be higher. This is a very tall order if good contrast was to be maintained. Even the best cinematic primes costing 15-20k a pop would fail here. From the optics point of view 100lp/mm with 30% contrast is possibly a practical maximum lens performance (or ca 80lp/mm at MTF50). Today it's reached by
    some very top glass only (cinematic Zeiss Master and Leica C primes, Leica M, Olympus SHG).
    Mounted on top bodies they would deliver max. at MTF30:

    in 4/3 format (ca 13 mm tall sensor)- 2600 line widths/picture height
    APS-C (ca 15 mm)-- 3000lw/ph
    FF 35mm (24mm)-- 4800 lw/ph
    So much for theory, in practice of photography all top systems deliver currently ca 2700-2800 lw/ph regardless of format. At 240dpi that translates into 11-12 inches of fully detailed print.

  41. #141
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    I have read this whole thread; from what I can seem the NEX 7 and the A77 are the same camera, sensor- and EVF-wise, and a different form factor—is this about right? do they take the same mount lenses? If so, Sony might have just made my take-everywhere camera (NEX 7 and a single lens). Interesting times indeed.

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    Re: Sony A77

    The mount is different but there is an adapter. However it's so big (400$ too) it negates the whole sense of the smaller nex7 body.

  43. #143
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    Re: Sony A77

    The UK retail price as reported by BJP (British Journal of Photography) today:

    The A77 will retail at price of £1150 body only or £1650 with the new 16-50mm lens (more details soon). The A65 will retail at £800 body only or £900 with a standard 18-55mm kit lens.

    Read more: http://www.bjp-online.com/british-jo...#ixzz1W1g58wp6


    Availability: October 2011 Just in time for my trip to India at the end of October hopefully!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

  44. #144
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    I have read this whole thread; from what I can seem the NEX 7 and the A77 are the same camera, sensor- and EVF-wise, and a different form factor—is this about right? do they take the same mount lenses? If so, Sony might have just made my take-everywhere camera (NEX 7 and a single lens). Interesting times indeed.
    Only major difference is the mount (but as mentioned it can be adapted) and secondly the A77 has in body anti-shake while the Nex 7 has not.

  45. #145
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    [headslap]Of course[/headslap] (re. the mount)

    the A77 has in body anti-shake while the Nex 7 has not.
    Another good point.

    OTOH, a NEX 7 with two lenses (the 24 and the 50) might just do; really, might just do.

  46. #146
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    which lens can resolve 24Mpix APS-C

    Last edited by nugat; 9th February 2014 at 07:38.

  47. #147
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    [headslap]Of course[/headslap] (re. the mount)



    Another good point.

    OTOH, a NEX 7 with two lenses (the 24 and the 50) might just do; really, might just do.
    Exactly my thought as well, and the direction I'm going in with the OM-2; 35 and 85mm but I'll carry a 21mm as well. Unfortunately there's no good ultra wide available for the Sony. The 16mm is crap and the 24 plus 50 plus body are already close to $3,000

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Unfortunately there's no good ultra wide available for the Sony.
    This. Come on SOMEBODY, make us a 10mm. I have a real need for an ultralight weight landscape kit....
    SONY A900
    Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
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  49. #149
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by nugat View Post
    The mount is different but there is an adapter. However it's so big (400$ too) it negates the whole sense of the smaller nex7 body.
    Let's get it right - there are two adaptors - there is a new one with a mirror and phase detect af - rather like a modern day visoflex - this is what you're talking about. This allows AF with old screwdriver driven lenses.

    However there is an existing adaptor which is not huge and not expensive, which allows you to use (and autofocus with SSM and SAM lenses).

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    This. Come on SOMEBODY, make us a 10mm. I have a real need for an ultralight weight landscape kit....
    Hi Lonnie . . . I do agree . . . . but there ain't nothing to beat an M9 and a WATE in that department (i.e. ultralight landscape).
    Nice pictures by the way.

    Just this guy you know

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