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Thread: Sony A77

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    Senior Member dhsimmonds's Avatar
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    Sony A77

    The long awaited Sony A700 replacement is expected to be announced in August 2011, a little later than the original anticipated July date.

    Expected to be called the A77, this is the provisional specification according to "Sony Rumors":

    The Sony A77 will be Sonyís new top APS-C model and replace the now very old Sony A700 (Click here to see that camera). It has a newly developed 24 Megapixel sensor which we have been told will deliver a crazy ISO performance. Specs are not 100% finalized yet but it looks like the ISO range goes from 100 up to 102.400 ISO. The A77 uses a new double Bionz processor and a newly developed 3 million dot OLED EVF. It takes more than 10 frames per seconds and has 11 cross AF points. Of course it can record videos at FullHD. It has a new USB 3.0 connection (with transmission speeds of up to 5 Gbit/s). Both cameras (the A77 and A65) will use the new translucent technology (there will be no optical viewfinder Sony camera anymore!). That allows Sony to reduce the production costs and we expect the A77 body only price to be around $1.000 only! Thatís much less than the competition:
    Cheers, Dave
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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    The A77 will be a good indicator as to what to expect from the A99. It seems that it's going to be an awesome camera, so there are reasons to be optimistic.
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    Senior Member dhsimmonds's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    You are right Edward. I have both the A700 and A900 the latter being twice the pixel count of the other. Imagine if this was continued into the A99! Especially with the low noise, high ISO capability double Bionz sensors. However I am not expecting a 48Mpx full frame A99, more like 32 to 36Mpx but still awesome!
    Cheers, Dave
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    Re: Sony A77

    Hope you have a lot of external hard drives to store your masters on.

    I am more than a little curious as to how good the A77 will be at high ISO. Many manufacturers have had issues packing far too many pixels on a sensor and effectively losing high iso performance. I'm not enough of a gearhead to understand the what's and the if's but I will wait for some owner user responses before I jump on this train.

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    As for me, it's not the high iso performance that is worrying me, Sony has shown in its latest cameras that it has already mastered this art. I am more concerned about the low iso performance and the color separation that makes the A900 so special in the color department. The high iso gain in performance may very well be on the expense of low iso, as we have seen with both Canon and Nikon.
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    Hope you have a lot of external hard drives to store your masters on.

    I am more than a little curious as to how good the A77 will be at high ISO. Many manufacturers have had issues packing far too many pixels on a sensor and effectively losing high iso performance. I'm not enough of a gearhead to understand the what's and the if's but I will wait for some owner user responses before I jump on this train.
    Well we haven't seen the A77 sensor yet, but the current 16Mpix APS Sony sensor is the highest resolution Sony APS sensor available and is generally considered to be the best high ISO APS sensor available (possible exception is the sensor in the Fuji X100 which is lower resolution).

    I don't think it is clear that higher resolution sensors are necessarily worse at high ISO. I fully expect that whatever resolution is used in the sensor for the A99, it will be better at high ISO than the A900 (if it is not, I won't buy one as I am really happy with my A900 except at really high ISO, I really don't need or really want any more Mpix than I already have).

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    Hope you have a lot of external hard drives to store your masters on.

    I am more than a little curious as to how good the A77 will be at high ISO. Many manufacturers have had issues packing far too many pixels on a sensor and effectively losing high iso performance. I'm not enough of a gearhead to understand the what's and the if's but I will wait for some owner user responses before I jump on this train.
    If anyone can do this Sony can. They have been the leader in sensor R/D and have invested heavily in the needed semiconductor fabs before anyone else.

    Alan

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    Re: Sony A77

    Eric Fossum, inventor of the CMOS, sees both megapixels and quality going up simultaneously, and it's kinda hard to argue with him. The so-called megapixel race is only improving image quality, so I wouldn't worry about it.

    In the beginning, we saw pixel counts going up and up, and then we saw a misguided rally against it, and now we're back to understanding that more pixels in the future is a good thing:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37409155

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    Re: Sony A77

    My comments were basically directed towards the evolution of say the Canon G series the G-9 was popular then came the G10 which the loaded over 15 mp on the same sensor and everyone screamed bloody H about it till Canon dropped it back down to 10 mp for the G11. I have a G10 I use in a underwater housing and I always liked it for this limited usage but I was a minority.

    I have seen nothing as of yet that states any negative comments about the new sensor used on the 77 but there is enough history to adding pixels to sensors to make me stand back and not be a beta tester for one of these this time.

    I bought a Nex 5 when first introduced and could not be happier. I got a a33 when it first hit USA Sony Style and have no real complaints except some fringing issues on some long tele shots. The a77 has had a bunch of anticipation about it and it's introduction and I expect it to be a great product BUT I will take a "wait and see" approach this time because I have not determined if I want the a77 or the rumored Nex7 OR Both But 24mp raws is not something I "have to have" for my usage and would cost me additional money for storage devices for sure. I very very rarely print over a 8x10.

    A lot will be revealed after Sony makes it's official announcements for the A77 and I will be reading as much as I can to determine when or if to pull the trigger on one or both if the Nex7 is a reality. But for me and my needs more pixels alone is not a big selling point but increased resolution and image quality is. We will all see soon enough huh?

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by dhsimmonds View Post
    You are right Edward. I have both the A700 and A900 the latter being twice the pixel count of the other. Imagine if this was continued into the A99! Especially with the low noise, high ISO capability double Bionz sensors. However I am not expecting a 48Mpx full frame A99, more like 32 to 36Mpx but still awesome!
    If this is becoming true, my way back into the Sony camp will be granted!

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    I've always suspected that Sony will end up owning the digital camera world and the rumours and speculation about the new A77 if true will win them new customers. However, if the trend is for smaller, lighter, higher performing cameras, when will that result in smaller, lighter lenses?

    The size/weight of the Sony-Zeiss lenses has always put me off owning their kit (mind you, the same is true for Nikon and Canon).

    LouisB

  12. #12
    richard.L
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    Re: Sony A77

    I'm more than a bit tempted by the rumored features...

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    As for me, it's not the high iso performance that is worrying me, Sony has shown in its latest cameras that it has already mastered this art. I am more concerned about the low iso performance and the color separation that makes the A900 so special in the color department. The high iso gain in performance may very well be on the expense of low iso, as we have seen with both Canon and Nikon.
    Hi Edward - but not with 16mp Sony sensor in the Pentax (and the A55), with it's excellent colour, dynamic range and colour.

    I doubt that the new sensor will be worse.

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    Re: Sony A77

    I am not a very patient person ..... I hate to wait for anything

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Edward - but not with 16mp Sony sensor in the Pentax (and the A55), with it's excellent colour, dynamic range and colour.

    I doubt that the new sensor will be worse.
    Great to know that, Jono, and I certainly hope you're right
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    Re: Sony A77

    Sony seems to still be using a more opaque CFA than its competitors, even though they use the same underlying silicon. On DxO Mark, the sensitivity metamerism index of the A580, while not quite up to the A900, is still higher compared to the D7000 and K5. Sony still seems to be continuing the practice of sacrificing a little bit of high ISO performance for better color (the NEX cameras have good color, too.) In daylight balanced light, Sony cameras tend test with a metamarism index in the 80s, whereas Nikon and Pentax cameras tend to be in the 70s. Granted, how much difference that can actually be seen is up in the air.

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Sony seems to still be using a more opaque CFA than its competitors, even though they use the same underlying silicon. On DxO Mark, the sensitivity metamerism index of the A580, while not quite up to the A900, is still higher compared to the D7000 and K5. Sony still seems to be continuing the practice of sacrificing a little bit of high ISO performance for better color (the NEX cameras have good color, too.) In daylight balanced light, Sony cameras tend test with a metamarism index in the 80s, whereas Nikon and Pentax cameras tend to be in the 70s. Granted, how much difference that can actually be seen is up in the air.
    I don't mind sacrificing a little high ISO to get the best colors. But I do confess that I covet the Nikon high ISO/low light capability. I'd love to have a separate high ISO camera for indoor work and even though I'm very happy with the A850 for everything else, I'd be fine with an APS-C camera for this indoor role. So if the A77 can take squeaky clean ISO 6400 shots, it'll be in my Christmas stocking this December (or August!).
    Regards
    John

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    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Sony seems to have been pretty constant in their cfa design, so I'd be surprised if the next round of cameras are any different, but who knows??

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    Re: Sony A77

    I'm in the camp of wait and see.

    I sold my A55 because I hated the EVF ... it was a novelty at first, then became an irritation. That has to improve to sway me back to any EVF.

    A higher ISO Sony would be nice, and that was what I initially got the A55 for, but it wasn't quite there in terms of ISO performance. A higher ISO Sony would be a welcome addition to my wedding bag ... but as of late the improvements in post programs like LR3 have increased the ability of my A900s to be used in lower available light with the faster ZA lenses. Learning to properly process them over time has also helped.

    The A900 (and A850) is such a good camera it is a hard act to follow. Not sure goosing the meg count to 32/36 or something like that is going to make all that much difference ... at least not as much as some think it will. It seems the higher you go, the more the diminishing returns.

    I'd be a happy camper if the A99 was 25 meg FF, but improved the ISO performance by a stop or maybe two ... this would help more in the ISO 400 to 1250 range where a majority of available light shots fall for me (and generally, a lot of others). The novelty of ISO 5,000+ is so rare a need for most folks, that it's not worth giving up anything we now have with the A900. My A900s have become the backbone of my gear closet ... even though I have a pile of exotic gear, these Sony's have delivered the majority of paying work time and again ... I trust them, and the file quality right out of the camera has made life much easier compared to most everything I'd owned and used.

    Time will tell if that can be actually improved upon.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member hot's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Sony will announce the A77, A65, NEX-7, (probably a NEX-5N and VG20 too) and the new
    16-50mm f/2.8 SSM and 24mm f/1.7 Zeiss E-mount lens (+ 50mm and 55-210mm) on August 23.

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by hot View Post
    Sony will announce the A77, A65, NEX-7, (probably a NEX-5N and VG20 too) and the new
    16-50mm f/2.8 SSM and 24mm f/1.7 Zeiss E-mount lens (+ 50mm and 55-210mm) on August 23.
    Why do you know? DO you work for Sony?

    Greetings from Austria to Austria

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Why do you know? DO you work for Sony?

    Greetings from Austria to Austria
    It has been leaked by several sources, including Sony Alpha Rumors, David Kilpatrick and Carl Garrard.
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    It has been leaked by several sources, including Sony Alpha Rumors, David Kilpatrick and Carl Garrard.
    Ok, then I missed it - just a day or so where you do not check and these things happen

    But I am still sceptic as there have been similar rumors already around for several times (BTW same is true for Nikon and Canon) and most of them just proved to be hot air.

    Well let's see!

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Ok, then I missed it - just a day or so where you do not check and these things happen

    But I am still sceptic as there have been similar rumors already around for several times (BTW same is true for Nikon and Canon) and most of them just proved to be hot air.

    Well let's see!
    HI Peter
    I don't think these are really 'rumours' - much more in the realm of viral marketing, so I think you can trust them - David Kilpatrick especially is not a purveyor of hot air.

    all the best

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'm in the camp of wait and see.

    I sold my A55 because I hated the EVF ... it was a novelty at first, then became an irritation. That has to improve to sway me back to any EVF.
    HI There Marc
    I hope you're well. Nice to see that you're still using the A900 and it's lovely files.

    The A55 is an odd and interesting beast - I took mine to the Cambridge folk festival over the weekend, having not really used it much for some time. I just wanted something light and fun to shoot some of the bands with, I didn't really get up too close, and I was shooting with the 70-300 G lens (again, it's light and convenient).

    The first point was how useful the EVF was - in those circumstances being able to see the 'actual' exposure in the viewfinder was a real bonus in quickly changing lighting situations. The high ISO and image stabilisation worked well, the AF was spot on, and almost every shot came out well. I wouldn't swap an OVF for an EVF yet - but if the A77 viewfinder is as good as it's cracked up to be, then I think we have a very interesting prospect on our hands.

    As for a higher MP A99, for those of you with an S2 or another MF camera, it's not of much value - for those of us who don't, but would like to have that kind of results, then it's an enticing proposition - even if in the end it doesn't really improve things - we'll have to wait and see! Once again, I think the A77 is a really interesting indicator of what's to come - if this sensor proves to give us some benefits over the excellent 16mp sensor, then I guess the same may be true for a high MP full frame sensor.

    To my mind the A77 is perhaps the most important new camera to come out for a number of years - it's indicating a different way forward for the stills camera. It's not so much that the A77 itself is important, more that it seems to be some kind of split in the road, it might be a dead end, but I suspect not.

    all the best

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There Marc
    I hope you're well. Nice to see that you're still using the A900 and it's lovely files.

    The A55 is an odd and interesting beast - I took mine to the Cambridge folk festival over the weekend, having not really used it much for some time. I just wanted something light and fun to shoot some of the bands with, I didn't really get up too close, and I was shooting with the 70-300 G lens (again, it's light and convenient).

    The first point was how useful the EVF was - in those circumstances being able to see the 'actual' exposure in the viewfinder was a real bonus in quickly changing lighting situations. The high ISO and image stabilisation worked well, the AF was spot on, and almost every shot came out well. I wouldn't swap an OVF for an EVF yet - but if the A77 viewfinder is as good as it's cracked up to be, then I think we have a very interesting prospect on our hands.

    As for a higher MP A99, for those of you with an S2 or another MF camera, it's not of much value - for those of us who don't, but would like to have that kind of results, then it's an enticing proposition - even if in the end it doesn't really improve things - we'll have to wait and see! Once again, I think the A77 is a really interesting indicator of what's to come - if this sensor proves to give us some benefits over the excellent 16mp sensor, then I guess the same may be true for a high MP full frame sensor.

    To my mind the A77 is perhaps the most important new camera to come out for a number of years - it's indicating a different way forward for the stills camera. It's not so much that the A77 itself is important, more that it seems to be some kind of split in the road, it might be a dead end, but I suspect not.

    all the best
    Thanks for the thoughts Jono. What I meant by "diminishing returns" is in reference to the limits of the 35mm film gate as opposed to competing with medium format and much larger sensors. To date, any major jump in meg count with the 35mm cameras has produced somewhat better files along with other interesting drawbacks.

    Personally, I'm not against EVF, just skeptical until I see a decent improvement. From a practical POV, I'd like to see a major improvement in things like Sony AF speed and ability in low light with moving subjects ... and other smaller things that are of real world value, like time saving ZA lens correction profiles in LR, some sort of separate master flash trigger like Nikon has ... and other things of that nature.

    -Marc

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    Re: Sony A77

    Hi Marc
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks for the thoughts Jono. What I meant by "diminishing returns" is in reference to the limits of the 35mm film gate as opposed to competing with medium format and much larger sensors. To date, any major jump in meg count with the 35mm cameras has produced somewhat better files along with other interesting drawbacks.
    I understand exactly what you mean - but until we get a major jump in MP count which doesn't produce better files - I'm hanging in there! If a 36mp 35mp sensor doesn't come up with the goods, that's the time I'll be seriously considering the S2 again - until then I'm living in hope. Certainly the jump to 24mp with the A900 was worth the candle.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Personally, I'm not against EVF, just skeptical until I see a decent improvement.
    I quite agree that it needs improving, but even now there are circumstances where it's worthwhile (e.g. the concert situation). The focusing on the A55 wasn't too bad either.
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    From a practical POV, I'd like to see a major improvement in things like Sony AF speed and ability in low light with moving subjects ... and other smaller things that are of real world value, like time saving ZA lens correction profiles in LR, some sort of separate master flash trigger like Nikon has ... and other things of that nature.

    -Marc
    Yes indeed - Sony still has a way to go in terms of system - flash doesn't impact me so much as I try not to use it! I do agree about the low light AF speed. It just feels to me right now that they're trying to get there. We shall see!

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Marc

    I understand exactly what you mean - but until we get a major jump in MP count which doesn't produce better files - I'm hanging in there! If a 36mp 35mp sensor doesn't come up with the goods, that's the time I'll be seriously considering the S2 again - until then I'm living in hope. Certainly the jump to 24mp with the A900 was worth the candle.



    I quite agree that it needs improving, but even now there are circumstances where it's worthwhile (e.g. the concert situation). The focusing on the A55 wasn't too bad either.


    Yes indeed - Sony still has a way to go in terms of system - flash doesn't impact me so much as I try not to use it! I do agree about the low light AF speed. It just feels to me right now that they're trying to get there. We shall see!
    Jono, I'm sure that a more megs will produce better files. How much better, and at what price is the question? The D3X was a leap for Nikon, but in the end it just wasn't worth the post work needed to realize the benefit. The fact that the A900 is/was 24 meg was far less important to me compared to the color quality out of the camera. IMO, 24 meg is pushing the envelope for 35mm and what 35mm tends to be used for.

    The penalty for hand-holding a 35 meg DSLR will be interesting to experience. The only reason for bigger files is bigger prints or more cropping severity ... in both cases, any flaw in technique will be magnified. Users of MFD know this concept well, and a smaller 35mm camera with less mass will be a true test of this phenomena.

    And yes, it remains to be seen since there are no 35 meg DSLRs yet. Thus, I am in the "wait and see" camp.

    My concern for Sony remains that it is not a full system that caters to both the professional and advanced enthusiast ... the very people who would have use of a 35 meg FF camera. I suppose if the faithful clamor for more megs, that is where the focus will be ... instead of smaller things that will actually make a big difference in day-to-day shooting.

    While you may try to not use flash (as do I), a vast majority of portrait and wedding photographers do need it (as do I). The Nikon system is testimony of its importance as a system component. Not to mention that when the meg count goes up, the tendency has been to need more light to realize the benefit.

    Just my opinion, but it wouldn't matter if the DSLRs go to 50 meg ... they will never equal the IQ of a MFD camera properly used ... real estate just can't be overcome. So, I do wish the DSLR companies would get off the meg band-wagon, and get on with making the cameras more useful for everyday shooting ... much better AF, much easier processing, more versatility in practical accessories, and so on. There are no T/S optics from Sony ... especially useful would be a T/S macro. No true flash system for the "strobists" enthusiasts. The A900 takes two cards, but can't shoot to both of them (how hard would that be to accomplish?) ... I could laundry list a host of other things. Instead we get even more meg, and in-camera pano jpegs, and other novelties which get used a few times and forgotten.

    Frankly, I do not need another camera. I need to make more use of the ones I have already paid for. I bought into the A900 because it held promise as a serious system going forward ... it appeared to be a great start ... I am now worried that it was the end.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Sony A77

    Some interesting news



    From here:

    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-huge-sony-leak/
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Jono, I'm sure that a more megs will produce better files. How much better, and at what price is the question? The D3X was a leap for Nikon, but in the end it just wasn't worth the post work needed to realize the benefit. The fact that the A900 is/was 24 meg was far less important to me compared to the color quality out of the camera. IMO, 24 meg is pushing the envelope for 35mm and what 35mm tends to be used for.

    The penalty for hand-holding a 35 meg DSLR will be interesting to experience. The only reason for bigger files is bigger prints or more cropping severity ... in both cases, any flaw in technique will be magnified. Users of MFD know this concept well, and a smaller 35mm camera with less mass will be a true test of this phenomena.

    And yes, it remains to be seen since there are no 35 meg DSLRs yet. Thus, I am in the "wait and see" camp.

    My concern for Sony remains that it is not a full system that caters to both the professional and advanced enthusiast ... the very people who would have use of a 35 meg FF camera. I suppose if the faithful clamor for more megs, that is where the focus will be ... instead of smaller things that will actually make a big difference in day-to-day shooting.

    While you may try to not use flash (as do I), a vast majority of portrait and wedding photographers do need it (as do I). The Nikon system is testimony of its importance as a system component. Not to mention that when the meg count goes up, the tendency has been to need more light to realize the benefit.

    Just my opinion, but it wouldn't matter if the DSLRs go to 50 meg ... they will never equal the IQ of a MFD camera properly used ... real estate just can't be overcome. So, I do wish the DSLR companies would get off the meg band-wagon, and get on with making the cameras more useful for everyday shooting ... much better AF, much easier processing, more versatility in practical accessories, and so on. There are no T/S optics from Sony ... especially useful would be a T/S macro. No true flash system for the "strobists" enthusiasts. The A900 takes two cards, but can't shoot to both of them (how hard would that be to accomplish?) ... I could laundry list a host of other things. Instead we get even more meg, and in-camera pano jpegs, and other novelties which get used a few times and forgotten.

    Frankly, I do not need another camera. I need to make more use of the ones I have already paid for. I bought into the A900 because it held promise as a serious system going forward ... it appeared to be a great start ... I am now worried that it was the end.

    -Marc
    I agree with most of what you said, especially the fear that the A900 was a great start but not so much is going to follow to make this system a real pro system.

    While I agree with the MF arguments WRT quality, I must say that this depends very much of the camera maker itself. Looking into M9 files with just 18MP, this already gives very good images which in case they are stiched can nicely rival 40MP MFDBs. Or even the 12MP of an E5 which uses just a very thin AA filter gives highest quality results which easily can hold up to the first 22MP backs some years ago.

    Having said that I think if the Sony's and Nikon's and Canon's could come up with a high MP DSLR without or at least with very weak AA filter, the results would be on par with all existing 37-40MP MFD solutions. Whatever little margin you would win in terms of IQ because larger sensor, would be nicely made up by much greater choice in optics and higher ISO capability. And to be fair - the rest difference in IQ can be easily calculated away in SW. And even MFD relies meanwhile heavily on SW.

    So I am holding my breath for the next generation of high res DSLRs from all the obvious brands and then would probably sell My H3D39 and not upgrade to an H4D60.

    And I think I am not the only one with that evolution in mind

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Some interesting news
    Yeah, like THIS!

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    Re: Sony A77

    Well, what's wrong with the Nex 7 taking my alpha flash units?
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Well, what's wrong with the Nex 7 taking my alpha flash units?
    Nothing at all!!!

    This thing is shaping up to be a x100 killer.
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    Re: Sony A77

    As long as the NEX-7's LCD still tilts up, I think I'm gonna bite (if this is a real camera.)

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    Re: Sony A77

    NEX-7 looks great. I saw a thread recently I think on FM re the edge color shift issue with rangefinder lenses being mitigated somewhat even on NEX-C3 -- that'd be a nice twist for the NEX-7 too.

    Not really in the market for a DSLR but the A77 developments look promising.

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I agree with most of what you said, especially the fear that the A900 was a great start but not so much is going to follow to make this system a real pro system.

    While I agree with the MF arguments WRT quality, I must say that this depends very much of the camera maker itself. Looking into M9 files with just 18MP, this already gives very good images which in case they are stiched can nicely rival 40MP MFDBs. Or even the 12MP of an E5 which uses just a very thin AA filter gives highest quality results which easily can hold up to the first 22MP backs some years ago.

    Having said that I think if the Sony's and Nikon's and Canon's could come up with a high MP DSLR without or at least with very weak AA filter, the results would be on par with all existing 37-40MP MFD solutions. Whatever little margin you would win in terms of IQ because larger sensor, would be nicely made up by much greater choice in optics and higher ISO capability. And to be fair - the rest difference in IQ can be easily calculated away in SW. And even MFD relies meanwhile heavily on SW.

    So I am holding my breath for the next generation of high res DSLRs from all the obvious brands and then would probably sell My H3D39 and not upgrade to an H4D60.

    And I think I am not the only one with that evolution in mind
    Stitching isn't an option ... except for stuff like landscapes, where MFD rules because you can put the sensor on a tech camera and use the best lenses available.

    I don't agree that a weak AA filter will suddenly make a 35mm sensor the equal of a 645 sensor.

    It also stands to reason that any SW technology that produces better files from 35mm can also be applied to MFD (like Capture One) ... so that isn't an advantage.

    The 35mm IQ equal to a medium format has been the "Holy Grail" for decades and decades ... never happened, and IMO, it never will. My old 16 meg CFV produced better files than my 24 meg Sony ... but they are different animals to actually use. Which is my point in all this ... refine the 35mm cameras to do what they do best ... and make it better, faster AF, lower light, more versatile machines than they even are now.

    -Marc

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    Yeah, like THIS!

    Wait....
    why is there a ZA lens on the NEX-7, is this an alpha mount Nex????
    has anyone else noticed this?
    am

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    Re: Sony A77

    ^^ Zeiss is making e-mount lenses for Sony, this being one of them...
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by arashm View Post
    Wait....
    why is there a ZA lens on the NEX-7, is this an alpha mount Nex????
    has anyone else noticed this?
    am
    Notice it has an "E" in the designation. NEX is still considered part of the Alpha line, so it looks like their sticking with ZA for both e and a mounts.

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    Re: Sony A77

    That lens is supposed to be part of the new product rollout for Sony along with 2 others and 3 cameras ..... As rumored anyway ... We will see huh?

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    Re: Sony A77

    @ Douglas
    Thanks
    I see the "E". But saw the ZA first and got all confused
    so it's a ZA for the E mount....
    I find this slightly confusing, but I guess that's just me!
    am

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    Re: Sony A77

    This, if true will be a very interesting camera for me.
    I was looking at the X100 but the lack of focal lengths was a bit of a potential problem.
    The bigger problem is that there seems to be non to actually buy, going on a month or so long waiting list is not my idea of fun!
    The more I look at this supposed NEX 7 WITH Built in EVF, the more I'm liking the idea.
    am

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by arashm View Post
    @ Douglas
    Thanks
    I see the "E". But saw the ZA first and got all confused
    so it's a ZA for the E mount....
    I find this slightly confusing, but I guess that's just me!
    am
    +1, it is not only you who is confused by the Sony naming.

    Actually this naming is not so much different from the totally confusing naming in their other consumer product lines - TV, stereo, computer, etc. so why should we expect to do better in their photography department ?????

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I bought into the A900 because it held promise as a serious system going forward ... it appeared to be a great start ... I am now worried that it was the end.

    -Marc
    And that sums up my fears perfectly in one sentence. I was just chatting with Jono about that this morning. There is a great opportunity for Sony to either gain market share or lose what little of the professional market they have. I realize that pros are not a profitable market segment because we are a fickle, demanding, whiny lot, but if you think the sea of white lenses on the sidelines had nothing to do with Canon's overall market share you are kidding yourself.

    My A900 meets my needs better than any other camera on the market, but it's hard to invest in a system without a clear roadmap. One great body and a couple great lenses does not a system make. Sony appears to have taken aim the highly profitable (guessing) prosumer market. What they don't understand is they really don't have to roll out tons of killer pro level gear to capture that market, just let people know what to expect. Practically no one has a huge cache of legacy Sony glass as they might with Canon, Nikon, Mamiya, Hassy, Rollei tying them to the system. Market share has to be earned one lens, body and photographer at a time, rather then just maintained like Canikon. All Canon has to do to maintain its user base is roll out new products that keep pace with other manufacturers and don't suck. When they roll out a faulty camera, then -- and only then -- they lose customers.

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Green View Post
    And that sums up my fears perfectly in one sentence. I was just chatting with Jono about that this morning. There is a great opportunity for Sony to either gain market share or lose what little of the professional market they have. I realize that pros are not a profitable market segment because we are a fickle, demanding, whiny lot, but if you think the sea of white lenses on the sidelines had nothing to do with Canon's overall market share you are kidding yourself.

    My A900 meets my needs better than any other camera on the market, but it's hard to invest in a system without a clear roadmap. One great body and a couple great lenses does not a system make. Sony appears to have taken aim the highly profitable (guessing) prosumer market. What they don't understand is they really don't have to roll out tons of killer pro level gear to capture that market, just let people know what to expect. Practically no one has a huge cache of legacy Sony glass as they might with Canon, Nikon, Mamiya, Hassy, Rollei tying them to the system. Market share has to be earned one lens, body and photographer at a time, rather then just maintained like Canikon. All Canon has to do to maintain its user base is roll out new products that keep pace with other manufacturers and don't suck. When they roll out a faulty camera, then -- and only then -- they lose customers.
    +1

    and market share cannot be earned by bringing out big number of new and in fact useless camera models, rather show a clear line of consumer and pro gear and evolve that over the years. This is I am totally missing.

    Also they have that great cooperation with Zeiss, so why do we not yet see a lineup of Zeiss tele primes and zooms like 2.8/300, 2.8/400, 4/100-400 etc, etc ??? They are missing on a definite opportunity also in this area!

    And further - I owned the Zeiss 2.8/16-35 and 2.8/24-70, but both lenses did by far not convince me. All my Nikon and Canon counterparts were simply better - WRT optical quality as well as mechanics and stability and haptics.

    So I think Sony can produce great sensors, but delivering on cameras or even more systems they fail.

    This was the main reason I went out of this system some 18 months ago and it will be hard to convince me to go back.

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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by arashm View Post
    Wait....
    why is there a ZA lens on the NEX-7,
    Uaaaaahhhh ... $ 999 for this lens is no bargain ... I think IQ is for $ 399

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    Re: Sony A77

    Zeiss lenses are not exactly cheap. If you can't afford it don't buy it
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    Re: Sony A77

    Interesting thread. But if Sony were reading through the comments they might be confused. Some folks think there are not enough high end (pro) lenses and cameras. Other folks think the equipment (lenses) are too expensive. I guess they'll just have to steer for the middle and hope to hit the sweet spot where they satisfy the highest number of people (or make the largest amount of money, which can be a different thing).

    Regards
    John

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    Re: Sony A77

    No wonder why Sony seem to be confused. They must be reading the forums
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    Re: Sony A77

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    No wonder why Sony seem to be confused. They must be reading the forums
    Sorry but this is not a good discussion!

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