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Lonnie Utah

New member
A point to the evf in bright light. We aren't thinking about the flipside of that equation, which is the evf's ADVANTAGE in LOW light. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm WAY more likely to be using my camera in low light situations, than in bright light situations. There is always the rear screen to use as well....

The most pleasant surprise in this cam for me is the joystick white balance adjustments. That was unexpected and is really keen.
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Quote from MR over at Lula:


Is it good? Yes, it's very good – for an EVF. I would go so far as to say that it is much preferable to the dim and small reflex viewfinders found on most reduced frame DSLRs. This then begs the question – how does it compare to the viewfinder on a full frame DSLR like the Sony A900.

Not so well. The viewfinder on the A900 is one of the brightest and largest found on any 35mm DSLR – ever. Sony's new OLED EVF, as good as it is, is up against what may the gold standard, and it doesn't quite deliver.

The area where I find EVFs to be problematic is in high contrast situations. As one moves from bright to dark areas the viewfinder's brightness pumps. I find this distracting. An optical viewfinder allows the eye to compensate for brightness differences, while an EVF (even one as good as Sony's new one) does its own compensation.

Outdoors the A77's viewfinder does the job, though shadow areas can become blocked up. In low light I find that it gives an unrealistically bright and contrasty impression of the scene in front of it, and also one that gets grainy as the VF's amplification is boosted to enhance visibility.
 

monza

Active member
Pretty much the same thing that was said about the Panny G1 EVF three years ago. And I agree, the A900/A850 OVF is fantastic.
 

peterb

Member
Sony has certainly laid down an impressive gauntlet. 3 cameras with identical sensors, lightning fast lag, DSP's and OLED's.

The A77 offers magnesium, weather-proofing and a somewhat over engineered rear LCD (the Pany and Canon 60D approach is SOOOOO much better). A somewhat better AF (than the A65). All in a body on a par in volume as a Canon 7D.

The A65 offers somewhat a somewhat lesser (but by no means horrible) AF. An LCD that's is pretty useful most of the time (except for side shots, self-portraits and any swing out use on a tripod) all in a nicely compact, nicely sculpted (according to what I saw on dpreview.com), non-weather proofed, very high grade plastic body that should take a reasonable amount of abuse (I haven't seen too much loss for wear in the G1 I've owned for three years).

Another pleasant surprise is this 16-50mm f2.8 lens which really WOWED SLR-Gear who gave it a very impressive review:

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1449/cat/83

With identical BIONZ engines the ISO noise and DR should be similar. And unless you really need the extra power of the A77, $1600 for the A65 body and 16-50mm could be a great way to go.

The NEX 7 with the 24mm f1.8 Zeiss would be no slouch either. Solid build. Very nice sculpting. All in a compact body that lies between the X100 and M9. (The X100 has certainly got a serious competitor.)

They've got my vote.
 

douglasf13

New member
The A77 offers magnesium, weather-proofing and a somewhat over engineered rear LCD (the Pany and Canon 60D approach is SOOOOO much better).
How so? I can't stand the swing out to the side LCDs, and I think the A77 has a nice solution to keeping a wide range of adjustment while keeping the LCD more in line with the camera. In fact, I'm stoked that Sony left the tilt up only LCD in the NEX-7. That would have been a deal breaker for me, personally.
 

peterb

Member
The LCD on the A77 is an engineering tour-de-force. Very impressive in that it swings up and out and then about. It seems to utilize a U shaped holder with a central pivot. It appears to be Sony's answer to complaints that their current design which swung down and swiveled not only wasn't feasible for mounting on a tripod nor was it very good for side angle street photography when you wanted to casually look forward while shooting sideways to capture your subject unawares.

It reminded me of an anecdotal story I mentioned on another forum when North American Mercedes-Benz dealers were begging Stuttgart to design a cup holder for their cars. The dealers knew THAT silly thing was a major selling point among American tastes. The engineers at Stuttgart would constantly resist saying that cup holders were a safety issue and would not be something THEY would incorporate in ANY Mercedes. Well after years of haggling Stuttgart finally relented and said, "Here's your cupholder!" The design they came up with was mind boggling. At the touch of a button, the thing would rise hydraulically from a hidden compartment in the center console, open up and SENSE the girth of the cup then grasp it applying proper pressure. To me, over engineering (but typical of Mercedes approach to these things).

The approach used by Panasonic and Canon (on the 60D) seems, to me anyway, simpler. By having the LCD swing to the left and enabling a full 180 degrees of movement on two axes you enable high angles, low angles, side angles and even self-portraiture framing all while even clearing a tripod if mounted.

The NEX 7' LCD is VERY nice. And works for me too!
 

jsparks

Member
The approach used by Panasonic and Canon (on the 60D) seems, to me anyway, simpler. By having the LCD swing to the left and enabling a full 180 degrees of movement on two axes you enable high angles, low angles, side angles and even self-portraiture framing all while even clearing a tripod if mounted.

The NEX 7' LCD is VERY nice. And works for me too!
I have a G1 and find the swing out mechanism unusable except for verticals. I hold the camera with 2 hands and my hand gets in the way of opening the LCD all the way. I find it impossible to keep the camera level if I don't swing the LCD out parallel to the camera before tilting it. I know it works great for most people, but it doesn't work for me. I find the Sony design much more usable personally. The A77 version does seem a bit over complicated; I prefer the one on the A65.
 

sirimiri

Member
For me the Minolta heritage is innovation, not body shape.
What specific innovations are we talking about?

Eye-start?
1/12,000th of a second top shutter speed?
Honeycomb AF arrangement?
Powerzoom image framing compensation?
"Creative" expansion cards?
Unique flash mount system?
Fractionally higher flash shutter speed synchronization than the competition?
 

LizaWitz

New member
sorry with the exception of the 16/2.8 no NEX lenses will fit in my pocket, maybe they mean body only?
The NEX-5 with the largest E-mount lens, the 18-200 zoom fits in my vest pocket. So, at the height of summer, when it is too warm for my vest, I wear the thing around my neck, without getting any strange looks. The rest of the year, it fits in my pocket.

People say the lenses make the size of the body irrelevant for pocket ability, but I could never fit an A77 in that pocket.... the body would be too big to get in and out of the pocket, even if the lens on it was much smaller than the 18-200.

Every time I go out, i go out with this camera in my pocket. (except the hottest days)
 

LizaWitz

New member
I notice that in the DPReview they mention the EVF is still hard to see in bright light when wearing glasses.
This is the site that claimed the new 55-210mm E-mount lens is the "first zoom for the e-mount". The e-mount had the 18-55mm zoom at launch, it was the kit lens, and the 18-200 was a couple months later.

DP Review has no credibility. I've found numerous factual errors in their "Reviews" spec listings, and even after reporting them, and getting the errors acknowledged, they didn't fix them.

Sorry but a viewfinder that can't be viewed in the sun for glasses/sunglasses wearers is still far from replacing an OVF for all their hype. Nothing, absolutely nothing should ever stand in the way of taking a photo.
You're probably talking about the A77. For the NEX-7 there is no OVF to replace. My NEX-5 has no viewfinder at all. I am dubious at the notion that Sony is going to ship a camera where the EVF is not usable by people with glasses or in bright light. I don't see Sony doing something like that, which would result in a large number of returns.

If "nothing should stand in the way of taking a photo" then where do you draw the line? This seems arbitrary. Electronics metering? Could fail. Mechanical shutters? Could fail!
 

douglasf13

New member
I've noticed that some of the review models seem to have a rubber eye piece around the EVF opening, and others don't. I wonder if that makes a difference one way or the other with the reviews about glasses wearing?
 
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