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Thread: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    this should be realized and launched pretty soon:

    http://nikonrumors.com/2011/08/16/fi...#ixzz1W2CWp5Ab

    and if Fuji wants to stay in the game they must launch an X200 with interchangeable lenses.

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    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 25th August 2011 at 02:28.
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I don't think NEX7 will sell in large volumes at all. Seriosuly, who would buy it?
    It's too expensive for the mass market so it's not an alternative to even high-end compacts like G12 etc.
    It's too big to be pocketable, even with a pancake lens, so it doesn't replace a compact.
    It's too expensive and too big to be a compact travel alternative to a DSLR.
    The system is nowhere complete enough to be seen as an only system for.

    What remains, then, is enthusiasts who are not cost sensitive, looking for more of the latest gear.
    I predict here and now, you are dead wrong.

    The Nex-7 will outsell the field at that pricepoint.

    There has never been a camera made with the size, performance and versatility of the nex-7. There is huge buzz already in the staid lecia community--who rarely cast a second glance at the dirty little nex-5

    The true performance of the sensor is not apreciated, since the raws are still unreadable.

    10FPS, fast AF, best EVF ever made, new lens adapters, and lenses on the way from sony, not to mention all the makers who now have the specs from sony.

    It will shoot beautifully with legacy glass.

    It weighs 290 grams.

    The talk of too big and too small is simply silly--it's the smallest thing ever seen that can do what it can do---by a mile.

    Sony has just wiped the floor with canikon and the in the box thinking you put forward.

    The camera will be available in November. One year from then I'll dig up this thread and we'll see who was right LOL

    PS please don't misread my tone, not trying to be disrespectful. Many agree with you, I just think they all are crazy!

  3. #53
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I was more thinking of the viewfinder of the X100, which conceptually qualifies as a game changer, at least to me (though I have never used one so implementation might not meet the promise).

    ....

    I still don't understand why you are so excited about the NEX7 that you want to call it a game changer. What game is changed, and for whom?
    Viewfinder is neat, but we'll have to wait and see if it "changes the game".

    Btw, I was never was exited about the Nex 7 and certainly I did not call it a game changer. I only like the Nex as a platform (or digital back) for my Leica M and Olympus OM lenses. However for that (for me) the Nex 5 does everything I need in that respect

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    this should be realized and launched pretty soon:

    http://nikonrumors.com/2011/08/16/fi...#ixzz1W2CWp5Ab

    and if Fuji wants to stay in the game they must launch an X200 with interchangeable lenses.

    Regards
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    The Nikon sure will be of limited interest to enthusiasts, I'd imagine, with its tiny sensor that falls in between p&s and m4/3 in size.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I was more thinking of the viewfinder of the X100, which conceptually qualifies as a game changer, at least to me (though I have never used one so implementation might not meet the promise).

    You could turn your argument around and ask what's the big deal is about an EVF camera whose main attraction is piss-poor ergonomics unless you have tiny Japanese hands.

    I still don't understand why you are so excited about the NEX7 that you want to call it a game changer. What game is changed, and for whom?
    It's potentially a game changer for me. I already migrated completely away from my A900 system after using the NEX-5 and rangefinder lenses for a while, but I do see the resolution differences at my usual print size. This NEX-7 is like combining the GH2, NEX-5 and A900 into one camera, and then adding a little rangefinder seasoning (in terms of the lenses I'll use.) It's really almost exactly how I'd design a digital camera for myself...outside of maybe wanting a larger sensor that probably won't happen for a long time, if ever.

    In fact, I believe the NEX-7 is the first camera I've ever pre-ordered.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    It's potentially a game changer for me. I already migrated completely away from my A900 system after using the NEX-5 and rangefinder lenses for a while, but I do see the resolution differences at my usual print size. This NEX-7 is like combining the GH2, NEX-5 and A900 into one camera, and then adding a little rangefinder seasoning (in terms of the lenses I'll use.) It's really almost exactly how I'd design a digital camera for myself...outside of maybe wanting a larger sensor that probably won't happen for a long time, if ever.

    In fact, I believe the NEX-7 is the first camera I've ever pre-ordered.
    Sure, I understand your thinking and I don't really disagree. And I understand others' excitement here, for the same and other reasons. But that's pretty far from a mass-market success.
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    How does one define a mass market success?

    The 3 through the 7 cover a pretty wide market segment.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    I predict here and now, you are dead wrong.

    The Nex-7 will outsell the field at that pricepoint.

    There has never been a camera made with the size, performance and versatility of the nex-7. There is huge buzz already in the staid lecia community--who rarely cast a second glance at the dirty little nex-5

    The true performance of the sensor is not apreciated, since the raws are still unreadable.

    10FPS, fast AF, best EVF ever made, new lens adapters, and lenses on the way from sony, not to mention all the makers who now have the specs from sony.

    It will shoot beautifully with legacy glass.

    It weighs 290 grams.

    The talk of too big and too small is simply silly--it's the smallest thing ever seen that can do what it can do---by a mile.

    Sony has just wiped the floor with canikon and the in the box thinking you put forward.

    The camera will be available in November. One year from then I'll dig up this thread and we'll see who was right LOL

    PS please don't misread my tone, not trying to be disrespectful. Many agree with you, I just think they all are crazy!
    290 grams, sure. Add three or four lenses and hoods, those brass-ring filters you will surely get for your new lenses, a camera bag, flash and batteries and the weight difference to an A77 is marginal. And WRT handheld stability and sharpness I'll take a 900g camera body over a 290g any time. Sometimes less weight isn't a good thing.

    Shooting with legacy glass once again has nothing to do with mass-market success. It's a pastime for a small gathering of enthusiasts.

    Not even excitement from Leica shooters is any indications of potential mass-market success. Once again, a small, albeit price-insensitive, niche.

    And if the best EVF ever made is limited to 1024x768 pixels then I don't see any bragging rights there whatsoever. Personally I think full HD is too limited for focusing, as my eyes - through an optical viewfinder - can resolve more than that.

    I'm not stuck with in-the-box thinking at all - having used many cameras over the years I just know bad ergonomics when I see it.

    BTW why dont you post with your real name so we can follow up on this discussion from either end a year from now?
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Sure, I understand your thinking and I don't really disagree. And I understand others' excitement here, for the same and other reasons. But that's pretty far from a mass-market success.
    Hi Lars
    I've been reading all the comments here (and yours as well). I actually agree with you that once you start adding adaptors etc you can end up with something the size of the A77.

    I also saw your remarks about the X100 viewfinder. I had an X100 for a month, and the problem was that with the optical viewfinder there wasn't really a good way of judging whether you had focus - either in manual or auto focus. The EVF was the only real way to shoot (except for street, where you are probably zone focusing anyway). Added to which, maybe Fuji will prove us wrong, but the information I get suggests that this sort of hybrid viewfinder will only work with a fixed focal length lens (that's fixed on the camera, not interchangeable).

    I'm not convinced you're right about being able to out resolve 1068x760 in an EVF - that's higher resolution than an iPhone 4, and I don't think anyone's eyes out resolves that. Of course, you may not like EVF's (I'm equivocal).

    It seems to me that this camera really can be a jack of all trades - stick a 35mm summicron on it and it really is pocketable - put a Zeiss 135 f1.8 on it and it certainly isn't (the resulting images might be interesting though). Think of it as a 24mp digital back which will take almost any lens made and suddenly it does sound like an interesting camera (to me at least).

    The Fuji seems to be selling like hot cakes - I can't see any good reason why this wouldn't sell better - it's pretty sexy, and has lots of advantages . . . and having thought that Fuji's hybrid viewfinder was the answer to life, the universe and everything, after a month I thought it was just a neat idea which didn't really work yet.

    Still, if Pentax can make little tiny lenses for an SLR with a mirror box, why on earth can't Sony make some teeny-tiny lenses for the NEX cameras?

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Douglas looks like you are not the only one.... NEX7 Pre-Orders in the top ten for Amazon

    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/amazo...-than-the-a77/


    uhoh7, looks like you won't have to wait till next year to be validated

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    Douglas looks like you are not the only one.... NEX7 Pre-Orders in the top ten for Amazon

    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/amazo...-than-the-a77/
    I've ordered one - it's too interesting not to try - does Amazon top 10 amount to 'mass market'?

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Jono, As you know Amazon sells a lot of products there are 4 Sony products in their top 20 sellers right now........ could be "mass market"

    I tried my normal camera retailer and they would not start a pre-order list till they had a firm date for the product (which they figured they would have that info by mid September) . They stated just keep an eye out for the change in product status from notify to pre-order. I have used their "notify" method before and I got an e-mail a week after the product went to pre-order status on their site (not good enough for me on the expected high demand of the a77 and NEX7 in the USA market). I then told them I was going to Pre-Order somewhere else to secure a spot in line I could count on. I Pre-Ordered from Amazon (Sonystyle just carries way too low of a customer satisfaction rating for my liking) though I would of preferred doing it at my regular dealer instead but they made no attempt to change their stand on pre-ordering. Their loss..... I'll buy my extra batteries, cards, and grip from them but I wanted to secure a spot in line for a camera I expect to be in short supply the rest of this year.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    290 grams, sure. Add three or four lenses and hoods, those brass-ring filters you will surely get for your new lenses, a camera bag, flash and batteries and the weight difference to an A77 is marginal. And WRT handheld stability and sharpness I'll take a 900g camera body over a 290g any time. Sometimes less weight isn't a good thing.
    I can fit the NEX-5 with its leather half-case (which is marginally smaller than the NEX-7,) the 16mm (and it's .75x converter,) a CV 35/1.5, CV 50/1.5, Contax G 90/2.8, and an extra battery or two in the smallest Artisan & Artist bag made (about the size of a child's lunchbox) with a little room to spare. The only filter I bring is a single polarizer (I don't use UV,) and I don't use flash. Honestly, I wouldn't have been able to fit my A900 with a single 50mm lens into the same bag, as the bag is very slim. If I used native lenses, I could still fit the Sony 16, 24, and 50 into the same bag with the NEX-7, no problem.

    As Jono said, it's about modularity. If I don't want to bring a bag at all, the NEX-5 (or 7) with a single prime is very packable in almost anything. With an MS Optical Perar 35, it is absurdly small.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...Still, if Pentax can make little tiny lenses for an SLR with a mirror box, why on earth can't Sony make some teeny-tiny lenses for the NEX cameras?
    That's exactly why. The mirror box gives Pentax an extra 25mm of "invisible lens" size that NEX doesn't have. With all of these different registration distances between different systems, we really need to measure cameras from the back of the camera to the tip of the lens, rather than just measuring the lens itself, to get an idea as to how big the system really is.

    That being said, Sony could make a slower, longer pancake compared to the 24/1.8, if they wanted to. Hopefully 3rd party will answer that call.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    There are some really nice pancakes from the 35mm camp - the 45mm Zeiss tessar from the Contax comes to my mind, which would be a perfect portrait lens for the Nex 7, whereas I will certainly use either my OM1,4/50 or my 1,4/85 Contax Planar, even if I need a second adapter. The only thing that makes me sad a bit is that the Nex 7 doesn´t have a chip IS like the Alpha 900. THIS would have been my wet dream- get all my old primes stabilized....
    Maybe Nex9 ? ;-)))

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    That's exactly why. The mirror box gives Pentax an extra 25mm of "invisible lens" size that NEX doesn't have. With all of these different registration distances between different systems, we really need to measure cameras from the back of the camera to the tip of the lens, rather than just measuring the lens itself, to get an idea as to how big the system really is.

    That being said, Sony could make a slower, longer pancake compared to the 24/1.8, if they wanted to. Hopefully 3rd party will answer that call.
    Just for once I'm going to disagree with you - what about M mount lenses? - the little summarit? - some of the CV lenses as well - and those are designed for full frame, not for APS-C and there's no mirror box - I'm not really talking about pancakes - but it should be possible to make quality lenses the size of M lenses.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Just for once I'm going to disagree with you - what about M mount lenses? - the little summarit? - some of the CV lenses as well - and those are designed for full frame, not for APS-C and there's no mirror box - I'm not really talking about pancakes - but it should be possible to make quality lenses the size of M lenses.
    Starting at around 35mm, many of those lenses have issues on the NEX-5 sensor, even though they're designed for full frame. Leica can get away with making lenses that need software correction to work properly, because they have such a back catalogue of lenses to deal with, but Sony would probably get reamed for such a thing, and they're going the more retrofocus route.

    Of course, I do agree that smaller lenses are possible, but Sony seems to be after speed with the 24/1.8. I'd rather them have made a small 30/2.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I'd rather them have made a small 30/2.
    I think I'd be inclined to agree.
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Starting at around 35mm, many of those lenses have issues on the NEX-5 sensor, even though they're designed for full frame. Leica can get away with making lenses that need software correction to work properly, because they have such a back catalogue of lenses to deal with, but Sony would probably get reamed for such a thing, and they're going the more retrofocus route.

    Of course, I do agree that smaller lenses are possible, but Sony seems to be after speed with the 24/1.8. I'd rather them have made a small 30/2.
    Leica don't do any software correction to make Zeiss and Voigtlander M lenses work on the M9 - or many older M lenses (and they do work properly). Olympus can make a tiny 12mm f2. Sorry I think they aren't trying hard enough!

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I wondered why the Leica M glass doesnt work that good on nex and m4/3 but great on the M8/M9. Maybe the microlenses and even if it was software-the final result looks damn good-thats what counts for me.

    Fact is IMO that even though the M9 is now 2 or 3? years old it is still (IMO) the best compromise between small size (larger than nex but much smaller than DSLR) body, small high quality lenses which are fast and offer shallow DOF for the times you want it and a good viewfinder.

    The new Nex (body) looks great but the system lacks lenses which is essential.

    If those old Oly lenses are small and fast and manual focus is ok than I would see this as the most interesting option.

    I dont understand why they focus so much on development of the camera body and not more on lenses.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Leica don't do any software correction to make Zeiss and Voigtlander M lenses work on the M9 - or many older M lenses (and they do work properly). Olympus can make a tiny 12mm f2. Sorry I think they aren't trying hard enough!
    I would say that most who use Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses on the M9 still apply coding that approximates the nearest Leica equivalent, no? Plus, M lenses don't have to deal with the AF and auto aperture mechanisms in their lenses, so they can be really nice and compact (although the Summiluxes aren't exactly tiny.) Check out how little the elements actually are in the Zeiss 24/1.8. Maybe Sony could just make them skinnier?



    The Zeiss ZM 25/2.8 isn't far off the size of the Zeiss 24/1.8, and it is a stop and a half slower and has no AF or auto aperture, but it is designed for 135 sensor, so who knows?

    The Olympus 12/2 isn't really that small, considering it is twice the length of the Sony 16/2.8, despite being about the same equivalent field of view and DOF.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I wondered why the Leica M glass doesnt work that good on nex and m4/3 but great on the M8/M9. Maybe the microlenses and even if it was software-the final result looks damn good-thats what counts for me.

    Fact is IMO that even though the M9 is now 2 or 3? years old it is still (IMO) the best compromise between small size (larger than nex but much smaller than DSLR) body, small high quality lenses which are fast and offer shallow DOF for the times you want it and a good viewfinder.

    The new Nex (body) looks great but the system lacks lenses which is essential.

    If those old Oly lenses are small and fast and manual focus is ok than I would see this as the most interesting option.

    I dont understand why they focus so much on development of the camera body and not more on lenses.
    Fortunately, the NEX-C3 already has improved edges with M lenses, so hopefully Sony keeps on that route.

    FWIW, the new Zeiss isn't THAT big. It just looks big compared to the tiny bodies. It is about the same size as a Summilux 24, although obviously much lighter weight:



    Granted, I'm probably gonna stick to rangefinder lenses.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I wondered why the Leica M glass doesnt work that good on nex and m4/3 but great on the M8/M9. Maybe the microlenses and even if it was software-the final result looks damn good-thats what counts for me.
    I always understood it was the "angled" microlenses nearer to the corners which prevented the corner deteoriation.


    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    If those old Oly lenses are small and fast and manual focus is ok than I would see this as the most interesting option.
    Yes the Oly OM lenses are small, but once you figure in the adapter length (much longer than the M-adapter) they suddenly grow a lot.

    I still haven't figured out the best WA solution for the e-mount. Maybe I should just get the native 16/2.8 but reviews are so mixed on it, which indicates poor QC and sample variation.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    You can tell how significant a new camera is by the degree to which the people who complain about it are arbitrary or picking irrelevancies. The idea that it is too small, and too large is kinda silly. Which is it? It is small enough to be pocketable, as my NEX-5 with 18-200 lens is, and it is big enough to be held by american hands as my NEX-5 is. The NEX-7 is a bit larger, so easier to grip, not that I've had problems with the 5, while still being pocketable. Complaining because the viewfinder is not optical on a mirrorless system is kinda proof that I don't need to refute any other points.

    Also, "9/11" was never mentioned in the original post. The OP talked about it coming out in "december", then someone said "12/11 is that date familiar?" thinking of pearl harbor, which prompted a correction that pearl harbor happened on 12/7. The OP came back trying to figure out what the sensitivity was about and guessed the person meant 9/11. Remember- in europe the month and day are reversed, something I'm guessing most americans are not aware of- so 9/11 and 12/11 to a european are only a few days apart. Still when he did mention 9/11 he said it was no joke.... and still someone decided to get their panties in a bunch.

    Sorry, if you're an american, you should know 9/11 was our reichstag fire, and if I can make that comparison without expecting our friend from Mucnich-- the town where the architect of the reichstag fire gained power, in large part because he was able to blame the fire on "terrorists"-- then by damn any american shouldn't take offense at a mention of the date 9/11. Especially when that date was never mentioned except as response to american oversensitivity about an event that happened over 60 years ago! Yeah, "political correctness" is exactly the right term.

    Anyway, before all the nonsense, the reason I came here was to share this bit of sony marketing:
    http://vimeo.com/28111764
    Last edited by LizaWitz; 25th August 2011 at 12:28.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Does anyone know if the NEX-7 has the touch screen that the NEX-5N does? The ability to do rack focus by touching the screen is a feature that I've been wanting since the first mirror less cameras came out.

    This really is a game changer for video. It is a feature that is worth $700-$2,000 for people shooting movies, as that's what it would cost to put in an external rack-focus system.

    For video, no other options have:
    - 1080p/60 and 24fps on a large sensor
    - pocketable with APS-C sized sensor
    - Optical Steady shot of sony's caliber (which is in the new 50mm f1.8 lens as well)

    The 5N has the touch screen rack focus, and I'm really hoping the 7 has it as well. The 7's viewfinder is great. While the larger VG series is good for people shooting from tripods, street video is great with the NEX-5 and probably with the 7 as well.

    I have lived for years without a viewfinder, relying on the LCD on the back of my camera while shooting video, handheld is not great. The viewfinder will help a lot (but it breaks the "hold it at my waist and nobody knows I'm shooting video" pose.)

    ==================

    Turns out the NEX-7 does NOT have the touch display... this is too bad... or maybe its good, cause it gives me an excuse to wait until next year, since the NEX-5 is doing fine for now.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    290 grams, sure. Add three or four lenses and hoods, those brass-ring filters you will surely get for your new lenses, a camera bag, flash and batteries and the weight difference to an A77 is marginal. And WRT handheld stability and sharpness I'll take a 900g camera body over a 290g any time. Sometimes less weight isn't a good thing.

    Shooting with legacy glass once again has nothing to do with mass-market success. It's a pastime for a small gathering of enthusiasts.

    Not even excitement from Leica shooters is any indications of potential mass-market success. Once again, a small, albeit price-insensitive, niche.

    And if the best EVF ever made is limited to 1024x768 pixels then I don't see any bragging rights there whatsoever. Personally I think full HD is too limited for focusing, as my eyes - through an optical viewfinder - can resolve more than that.

    I'm not stuck with in-the-box thinking at all - having used many cameras over the years I just know bad ergonomics when I see it.

    BTW why dont you post with your real name so we can follow up on this discussion from either end a year from now?
    I'll pm you my contact info--I'm easy to find--I use the same name on all the forums.

    Would you consider the Nex-3 and 5 to be succesful cameras?

    Certainly the nex-7, for my taste, would be smaller,and the EVF would be more like the x100, but with RF like splitscreen focusing.

    But what it can do far outweighs the details.

    They will not be able to produce enough of these cameras, you watch.

    As far as the size with lenses, you once again miss the point:

    With a nex, it's your choice. You can go lean, or you can go big.

    As far as the legacy lens being "niche", this feature has attracted many to the nex line, and has brought the camera tremendous respect---priceless marketing.

    It's curious you don't see the huge coup the Nex-7 represents. I'm no fan of giant corporations, but thank god for sony, in this case. Obviously Canon and Nikon think just like you do

    To dismiss the ergonomics of the nex 7 out of hand, never having spent any time using it (not sure if you have shot with the nex), really is been there done that hubris.

    Nothing new there, we have seen one silly review of the Nex-5 after the next, utterly missing the point of the camera, from digtital Rev to DP review.

    Only a few ever bothered to get to know the camera, like steve huff, because their parameters were already set.

    But it doesn't matter, the market knows much better.

    I think Doug said he'd never pre-ordered a camera in his life, till this one. Posts like that are all over the place in the various forums. If that does not tell you something, you simply aren't listening.

    I saw the same attitude amoung the wise elders when shaped skis came on the market

    "It's a fad!" they said, loudly and repeatedly.

    10 years later those same people can't even concieve of using "classic skis".

    best,
    Charlie

    PS this guy never has and never will see a DSLR.


    nex-5 + OM200/5

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I really wanted to want the nex-7, but I'm swaying toward the nex-5n at this point. The high ISO quality is a known with the 5n and from what I've seen so far I'm not really impressed with the 7. I don't need 24mp on a crop frame, I want quality, so the sensor of the 5n fits the bill better as I shoot most of my street with this camera and I want to be able to have fast exposures. Everything else about the 7 featurewise I prefer, except lack of touchscreen but I'm not even sure if thats a must have as I've never owned a camera with one.

    Maybe as more comparisons come out it may sway me, but the cost savings would also pay for 2/3 of the 24mm f1.8 as well...

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by petetsai View Post
    I really wanted to want the nex-7, but I'm swaying toward the nex-5n at this point. The high ISO quality is a known with the 5n and from what I've seen so far I'm not really impressed with the 7. I don't need 24mp on a crop frame, I want quality, so the sensor of the 5n fits the bill better as I shoot most of my street with this camera and I want to be able to have fast exposures. Everything else about the 7 featurewise I prefer, except lack of touchscreen but I'm not even sure if thats a must have as I've never owned a camera with one.

    Maybe as more comparisons come out it may sway me, but the cost savings would also pay for 2/3 of the 24mm f1.8 as well...
    I don't think there's going to be too much tangible difference between the Nex-5N and Nex-7 at high ISO. Everything we're seeing now is jpeg based, and the NEX-5N jpegs certainly look more dialed in, but raw is always an entirely different story with Sony. One user on dpreview posted raw comparisons between the A77 and A35, and they're in the same ballpark (and the NEX-7 should be better, since it doesn't have the half stop disadvantage of a mirror being in the way.)

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...0&changemode=1

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Hi Liza

    thanks for taking care, but it´s OK, I know America and Americans pretty well, my sister lives in Canada (with C-Passport since years) and I know this is a weak point. I tend to try make drastical statements and I still think it´s valid, but maybe I should have taken this "specialty" into account. My mistake - not for making this statement, but to forget how emotional some people can get about this stuff.

    Something else: I made a pic of some of my OM lenses - just to show how tiny they are. And they are really good too.Even with the planned Kipon tilt adapter ( I already drool for getting the 1,4/50 on that) this will be pocketsize for some of my wintercoats/Jackets or worst a really small bag.

    And as I have seen my change in style the last years, this may mean I will do a lot of portraits/people and maybe nudes very soon - this combo really sounds too good to be true.

    And I think this camera looks incredibly sexy, very technical, very photographic, not a plastic toy. Thanks Sony !

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan

    PS: forgot - the really cool feature of the OM lenses is their stop downs, press the 2 buttons that are also locking the lens and you can stop down to preselect f-stop. you will be able to do this just before exposure and get perfect workflow with measurement and focusing on open aperture.
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 25th August 2011 at 14:00. Reason: PS added
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    (...)
    And if the best EVF ever made is limited to 1024x768 pixels then I don't see any bragging rights there whatsoever. Personally I think full HD is too limited for focusing, as my eyes - through an optical viewfinder - can resolve more than that.

    I'm not stuck with in-the-box thinking at all - having used many cameras over the years I just know bad ergonomics when I see it.
    (...)
    Hi Lars,

    Since November 2008 i have been swaying back and forth between optical viewfinders (5DMkII) and EVFs (Panasonic G1 and later models).

    It may be my ageing eyes but I have to say the EVF beats the optical ones whenever critical focusing is of interest. The EVF also has some other things going for it, like camera information showed right in the viewfinder and the possibility to review images in the viewfinder, very much improved conditions for focusing in the dark and so on. For anyone in need of reading glasses all this is great.

    OTOH the optical viewfinder is faster, as fast a ray of light...

    The EVF resolution is of interest. I found that the Minolta A2 VGA viewfinder wasn't really enough. The G1 however managed to give me an image were the pixels weren't obviously visible. If Sony has managed to improve on that I think it's "good enough". When you mention you can resolve better using an optical viewfinder you dismiss features like enlarged view and JPG setting reflected in "real-time" in the viewfinder.

    The big problem with the EVFs this far has been the shutter lag. I guess it's due to the viewfinder and the shutter mechanism. Until today mirror free cameras suffered from a shutter having to close before opening and taking the image. It will be interesting to see how the Nex-7 behaves there as Sony say they have introduced an electronic first curtain.

    As I said earlier; if we can agree about waiting before saying something is the best ever, then we should also be able to wait before saying something is bad.

    regards,

    Jonas

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Something else: I made a pic of some of my OM lenses - just to show how tiny they are. And they are really good too.
    I agree, the OM lenses are super on the NEX. Perfect blend of size, price and quality. I've got the 50 f/1.8, and the 135 f/3.5 (Got that one for $15+shipping off ebay). I'm still hunting for the 28 f/2.8 at a really cheap price to round out my "kit". I thought long and hard about the 35 f/2.8, but that FL it didn't seem quite right to me (I have a 35-70 f/2.8 zoom too and at 35, the view felt a bit too tight).

    Just for scale, here they are on the NEX5....

    NEX5 + OM 135 f/3.5


    NEX5 + OM 50 f/1.8
    SONY A900
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by LizaWitz View Post
    Turns out the NEX-7 does NOT have the touch display... this is too bad... or maybe its good, cause it gives me an excuse to wait until next year, since the NEX-5 is doing fine for now.
    Exactly how I feel.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I like that the NEX-7 doesn't have a power hungry lcd touchscreen. The evf would be my goto 80% of the time.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Lonnie

    there are a 21mm and as well a very good 24mm too........;-)

    to go even shorter, there is probably the Orgasmotron (this is Woody Allen, He is Jewish AND American so I hope this is PC.....;-) of Tilt Lens users:

    Get this adapter:
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tilt-adapter-...item2a11f38e15

    + a Nikon G-ED Adapter maybe this one:
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kood-Pro-Cano...item588e427fb8

    and then this:
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nikon-AF-S-14...item27bceb7b73

    ....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Regards
    Stefan
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    The OM lenses are certainly compact in the SLR lens world. I think the only size complaint that some make in regards to them is concerning the size of the adapter, because Contax G, M, LTM and Olympus Pen F lenses all take adapters nearly a third of the size of the OM to NEX adapter, and it is a tangible size difference at some focal lengths.

  36. #86
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    As many may have guessed I am an addict to Lens movements, if possible on any platform. And thus the longer flange focal distance of the Oly´s perfectly make sense. They also have the image circle, so vivat Zuiko- we´ll move them....

    regards
    Stefan
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    As many may have guessed I am an addict to Lens movements, if possible on any platform. And thus the longer flange focal distance of the Oly´s perfectly make sense. They also have the image circle, so vivat Zuiko- we´ll move them....

    regards
    Stefan
    I'm not sure I follow.

  38. #88
    Senior Member ecsh's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Heres a Utube video showing the new items including the Nex 7, so you get a better perspective of its actual size. Already preordered.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-sFeGaVqQ0

    Joe

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    here's the OM 135/2.8


    but per Dougs comments, it's now been replaced in the bag by my sweet new canon RF 135/3.5 in LTM. It is a sharp devil, and since one M adapter and a tiny LTM to M will mount a bunch of great stuff--you forget the 90 gram OM to nex adapter.

    as he also mentioned the PenF stuff works great too--I have the 25/2.8 and the 42/1.2: both superb.

    An SLR lens has to be REALLY special for me to drag it around.

  40. #90
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Interestingly, on Amazon.com the NEX-7 is beating the A77 in pre-orders by quite a bit. The NEX-7 is the #3 selling camera with the A-77 being #8 in the top 100.

    I might buy the new 50mm f1.8. I know y'all are big fans of the OM lenses and adapting SLR lenses to these cameras. I'm sure they produce better results photographically... but since I hand hold I need optical image stabilization for video.

  41. #91
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by LizaWitz View Post
    Interestingly, on Amazon.com the NEX-7 is beating the A77 in pre-orders by quite a bit. The NEX-7 is the #3 selling camera with the A-77 being #8 in the top 100.

    I might buy the new 50mm f1.8. I know y'all are big fans of the OM lenses and adapting SLR lenses to these cameras. I'm sure they produce better results photographically... but since I hand hold I need optical image stabilization for video.
    I may do the same. It's only about 5mm or so longer than my Nokton 50/1.5, and I'd like the OSS.

  42. #92
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Liza

    even more interesting is the fact that it is twice in the top ten now # 4 Body only and #10 Body with kit lens. This after 3 days when the others took hundreds of days to get there. AND - All competitors are about 30-50% cheaper.
    Buyers seem to completely ignore that, the feature set seems to be so addictive that nobody seems to care............;-)))

    Q.E.D.

    the industry needs to innovate, not evolute. The right word is "Chuzpe".

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    and another number from the amazon charts:

    the first MFT body - the Panasonic GH2 is on # 42.

    the also new Nex 5n is on # 13 even not being available - but less looked after than the twice as expensive Nex 7.

    I Think this says about all.

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  44. #94
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah
    I agree, the OM lenses are super on the NEX. Perfect blend of size, price and quality. I've got the 50 f/1.8, and the 135 f/3.5
    Lonnie, I use the exact same OM lenses, and in addition also the 85/2 and 100/2.8.
    All deliver stellar results. The 135 from wide open, most others are also OK wide open but significantly improve when closed 1 stop.

    If you want a real WA try to find a 21/3.5, at least I'm also hunting for one and it will be much smaller than using my Minolta 20/2.8 with the LA-EA1 adapter (which is my current WA "go to" for the nex)

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    What I find very interesting is that the 5N plus viewfinder pretty much negates the size and price advantage when you compare the additional benefits of the 7 as a photographers camera. That is at present of course, I assume the 5N will be bundled with the viewfinder in attractive packages very soon..
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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Hi Ben

    it shows in the sales numbers -the nex 7 outselling the nex 5n despite the lower price which at first seems to be unlogical, but as you say - infact is just a better deal integrated - so cost does not play that role anymore.
    product placement at it´s best, very clever !

    The more I think of it, the more I see how much thought was put into this, it took Sony SOME years to straighten this out, but now I think this will be the 5DII of the mid to top consumer range.

    regards
    Stefan
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Let's wait and see how the IQ pans out before sweeping statements though. This sensor has 4/3 type pixel density and we'll have to see just how big a rabbit if any they pulled out of the hat in comparison to the tried and tested, oh and incredible, sensor they've put in the 5N.
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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Would you consider the Nex-3 and 5 to be succesful cameras?
    Certainly the nex-7, for my taste, would be smaller,and the EVF would be more like the x100, but with RF like splitscreen focusing.
    But what it can do far outweighs the details.
    They will not be able to produce enough of these cameras, you watch.
    As far as the size with lenses, you once again miss the point:
    With a nex, it's your choice. You can go lean, or you can go big.
    As far as the legacy lens being "niche", this feature has attracted many to the nex line, and has brought the camera tremendous respect---priceless marketing.
    It's curious you don't see the huge coup the Nex-7 represents. I'm no fan of giant corporations, but thank god for sony, in this case. Obviously Canon and Nikon think just like you do
    To dismiss the ergonomics of the nex 7 out of hand, never having spent any time using it (not sure if you have shot with the nex), really is been there done that hubris.
    Nothing new there, we have seen one silly review of the Nex-5 after the next, utterly missing the point of the camera, from digtital Rev to DP review.
    Only a few ever bothered to get to know the camera, like steve huff, because their parameters were already set.
    But it doesn't matter, the market knows much better.
    I think Doug said he'd never pre-ordered a camera in his life, till this one. Posts like that are all over the place in the various forums. If that does not tell you something, you simply aren't listening.
    I saw the same attitude amoung the wise elders when shaped skis came on the market
    "It's a fad!" they said, loudly and repeatedly.
    10 years later those same people can't even concieve of using "classic skis".
    best,
    Charlie
    nex-5 + OM200/5
    Well - in the end it's just another camera. Really. There are already small cameras, there are already camera systems, there are already mirrorless cameras. It won't change the way we shoot. If you want to use different lenses, you still have to schlep around a bag of lenses.

    Perhaps a smaller bag, but it won't fit in your pocket like a compact. So you still have to make an active decision to bring the camera gear along -quite different from the compact csmera experience.

    So, who's buying this camera? Perhaps the people who were early adopters of MFT cameras are the ones preordering NEX7. That won't take much sales away from DSLRs. At $1200 the NEX7 is unlikely to cannibalize sales of $600 entrylevel DSLRs, and the NEX3/NEX5 who were competitively priced for that segment were a hardly noticeable blip on the DSLR market.

    I can see people who do not want to be seen with a DSLR as a target market, the crowd moving up from fixed-lens compacts, the fraction of that group who could justify a $1200 budget instead of/in addition to a $300-$500 compact. But they already made the move to MFT or NEXT3/5, so DSLR market won't be impacted at all by that group moving to NEX7.

    It is SO easy to make predictions about a whole market based on your own needs/preferences/taste. The fact is, hardly anyone on this forum is anywhere near a typical consumer in the target market we are discussing. Of course that is true for me too, so feel free to dismiss anything I say for the same reason hehe.
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  49. #99
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Nex-7 with pancake still fits in cargo pockets, purse, jacket pocket, etc. With a bunch of lenses, it'll still fit in a very small bag. When I look at the differences in various bag sizes between my Nex and A900 systems, it is incredible.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Nex-7 with pancake still fits in cargo pockets, purse, jacket pocket, etc. With a bunch of lenses, it'll still fit in a very small bag. When I look at the differences in various bag sizes between my Nex and A900 systems, it is incredible.
    Well, here I do agree . . but the new batch of panasonic lenses announced and rumoured still put them some way ahead from that point of view.

    Just this guy you know

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