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The future is here - Sony Nex 7

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Jim DE

New member
Jono, As you know Amazon sells a lot of products there are 4 Sony products in their top 20 sellers right now........ could be "mass market" ;)

I tried my normal camera retailer and they would not start a pre-order list till they had a firm date for the product (which they figured they would have that info by mid September) . They stated just keep an eye out for the change in product status from notify to pre-order. I have used their "notify" method before and I got an e-mail a week after the product went to pre-order status on their site (not good enough for me on the expected high demand of the a77 and NEX7 in the USA market). I then told them I was going to Pre-Order somewhere else to secure a spot in line I could count on. I Pre-Ordered from Amazon (Sonystyle just carries way too low of a customer satisfaction rating for my liking) though I would of preferred doing it at my regular dealer instead but they made no attempt to change their stand on pre-ordering. Their loss..... I'll buy my extra batteries, cards, and grip from them but I wanted to secure a spot in line for a camera I expect to be in short supply the rest of this year.
 

douglasf13

New member
290 grams, sure. Add three or four lenses and hoods, those brass-ring filters you will surely get for your new lenses, a camera bag, flash and batteries and the weight difference to an A77 is marginal. And WRT handheld stability and sharpness I'll take a 900g camera body over a 290g any time. Sometimes less weight isn't a good thing.
I can fit the NEX-5 with its leather half-case (which is marginally smaller than the NEX-7,) the 16mm (and it's .75x converter,) a CV 35/1.5, CV 50/1.5, Contax G 90/2.8, and an extra battery or two in the smallest Artisan & Artist bag made (about the size of a child's lunchbox) with a little room to spare. The only filter I bring is a single polarizer (I don't use UV,) and I don't use flash. Honestly, I wouldn't have been able to fit my A900 with a single 50mm lens into the same bag, as the bag is very slim. If I used native lenses, I could still fit the Sony 16, 24, and 50 into the same bag with the NEX-7, no problem.

As Jono said, it's about modularity. If I don't want to bring a bag at all, the NEX-5 (or 7) with a single prime is very packable in almost anything. With an MS Optical Perar 35, it is absurdly small.
 

douglasf13

New member
...Still, if Pentax can make little tiny lenses for an SLR with a mirror box, why on earth can't Sony make some teeny-tiny lenses for the NEX cameras?
That's exactly why. The mirror box gives Pentax an extra 25mm of "invisible lens" size that NEX doesn't have. With all of these different registration distances between different systems, we really need to measure cameras from the back of the camera to the tip of the lens, rather than just measuring the lens itself, to get an idea as to how big the system really is.

That being said, Sony could make a slower, longer pancake compared to the 24/1.8, if they wanted to. Hopefully 3rd party will answer that call.
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
There are some really nice pancakes from the 35mm camp - the 45mm Zeiss tessar from the Contax comes to my mind, which would be a perfect portrait lens for the Nex 7, whereas I will certainly use either my OM1,4/50 or my 1,4/85 Contax Planar, even if I need a second adapter. The only thing that makes me sad a bit is that the Nex 7 doesn´t have a chip IS like the Alpha 900. THIS would have been my wet dream- get all my old primes stabilized....
Maybe Nex9 ? ;-)))

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 

jonoslack

Active member
That's exactly why. The mirror box gives Pentax an extra 25mm of "invisible lens" size that NEX doesn't have. With all of these different registration distances between different systems, we really need to measure cameras from the back of the camera to the tip of the lens, rather than just measuring the lens itself, to get an idea as to how big the system really is.

That being said, Sony could make a slower, longer pancake compared to the 24/1.8, if they wanted to. Hopefully 3rd party will answer that call.
Just for once I'm going to disagree with you - what about M mount lenses? - the little summarit? - some of the CV lenses as well - and those are designed for full frame, not for APS-C and there's no mirror box - I'm not really talking about pancakes - but it should be possible to make quality lenses the size of M lenses.
 

douglasf13

New member
Just for once I'm going to disagree with you - what about M mount lenses? - the little summarit? - some of the CV lenses as well - and those are designed for full frame, not for APS-C and there's no mirror box - I'm not really talking about pancakes - but it should be possible to make quality lenses the size of M lenses.
Starting at around 35mm, many of those lenses have issues on the NEX-5 sensor, even though they're designed for full frame. Leica can get away with making lenses that need software correction to work properly, because they have such a back catalogue of lenses to deal with, but Sony would probably get reamed for such a thing, and they're going the more retrofocus route.

Of course, I do agree that smaller lenses are possible, but Sony seems to be after speed with the 24/1.8. I'd rather them have made a small 30/2.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Starting at around 35mm, many of those lenses have issues on the NEX-5 sensor, even though they're designed for full frame. Leica can get away with making lenses that need software correction to work properly, because they have such a back catalogue of lenses to deal with, but Sony would probably get reamed for such a thing, and they're going the more retrofocus route.

Of course, I do agree that smaller lenses are possible, but Sony seems to be after speed with the 24/1.8. I'd rather them have made a small 30/2.
Leica don't do any software correction to make Zeiss and Voigtlander M lenses work on the M9 - or many older M lenses (and they do work properly). Olympus can make a tiny 12mm f2. Sorry I think they aren't trying hard enough!
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I wondered why the Leica M glass doesnt work that good on nex and m4/3 but great on the M8/M9. Maybe the microlenses and even if it was software-the final result looks damn good-thats what counts for me.

Fact is IMO that even though the M9 is now 2 or 3? years old it is still (IMO) the best compromise between small size (larger than nex but much smaller than DSLR) body, small high quality lenses which are fast and offer shallow DOF for the times you want it and a good viewfinder.

The new Nex (body) looks great but the system lacks lenses which is essential.

If those old Oly lenses are small and fast and manual focus is ok than I would see this as the most interesting option.

I dont understand why they focus so much on development of the camera body and not more on lenses.
 

douglasf13

New member
Leica don't do any software correction to make Zeiss and Voigtlander M lenses work on the M9 - or many older M lenses (and they do work properly). Olympus can make a tiny 12mm f2. Sorry I think they aren't trying hard enough!
I would say that most who use Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses on the M9 still apply coding that approximates the nearest Leica equivalent, no? Plus, M lenses don't have to deal with the AF and auto aperture mechanisms in their lenses, so they can be really nice and compact (although the Summiluxes aren't exactly tiny.) Check out how little the elements actually are in the Zeiss 24/1.8. Maybe Sony could just make them skinnier?



The Zeiss ZM 25/2.8 isn't far off the size of the Zeiss 24/1.8, and it is a stop and a half slower and has no AF or auto aperture, but it is designed for 135 sensor, so who knows?

The Olympus 12/2 isn't really that small, considering it is twice the length of the Sony 16/2.8, despite being about the same equivalent field of view and DOF.
 

douglasf13

New member
I wondered why the Leica M glass doesnt work that good on nex and m4/3 but great on the M8/M9. Maybe the microlenses and even if it was software-the final result looks damn good-thats what counts for me.

Fact is IMO that even though the M9 is now 2 or 3? years old it is still (IMO) the best compromise between small size (larger than nex but much smaller than DSLR) body, small high quality lenses which are fast and offer shallow DOF for the times you want it and a good viewfinder.

The new Nex (body) looks great but the system lacks lenses which is essential.

If those old Oly lenses are small and fast and manual focus is ok than I would see this as the most interesting option.

I dont understand why they focus so much on development of the camera body and not more on lenses.
Fortunately, the NEX-C3 already has improved edges with M lenses, so hopefully Sony keeps on that route.

FWIW, the new Zeiss isn't THAT big. It just looks big compared to the tiny bodies. It is about the same size as a Summilux 24, although obviously much lighter weight:



Granted, I'm probably gonna stick to rangefinder lenses.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
I wondered why the Leica M glass doesnt work that good on nex and m4/3 but great on the M8/M9. Maybe the microlenses and even if it was software-the final result looks damn good-thats what counts for me.
I always understood it was the "angled" microlenses nearer to the corners which prevented the corner deteoriation.


If those old Oly lenses are small and fast and manual focus is ok than I would see this as the most interesting option.
Yes the Oly OM lenses are small, but once you figure in the adapter length (much longer than the M-adapter) they suddenly grow a lot.

I still haven't figured out the best WA solution for the e-mount. Maybe I should just get the native 16/2.8 but reviews are so mixed on it, which indicates poor QC and sample variation.
 

LizaWitz

New member
You can tell how significant a new camera is by the degree to which the people who complain about it are arbitrary or picking irrelevancies. The idea that it is too small, and too large is kinda silly. Which is it? It is small enough to be pocketable, as my NEX-5 with 18-200 lens is, and it is big enough to be held by american hands as my NEX-5 is. The NEX-7 is a bit larger, so easier to grip, not that I've had problems with the 5, while still being pocketable. Complaining because the viewfinder is not optical on a mirrorless system is kinda proof that I don't need to refute any other points.

Also, "9/11" was never mentioned in the original post. The OP talked about it coming out in "december", then someone said "12/11 is that date familiar?" thinking of pearl harbor, which prompted a correction that pearl harbor happened on 12/7. The OP came back trying to figure out what the sensitivity was about and guessed the person meant 9/11. Remember- in europe the month and day are reversed, something I'm guessing most americans are not aware of- so 9/11 and 12/11 to a european are only a few days apart. Still when he did mention 9/11 he said it was no joke.... and still someone decided to get their panties in a bunch.

Sorry, if you're an american, you should know 9/11 was our reichstag fire, and if I can make that comparison without expecting our friend from Mucnich-- the town where the architect of the reichstag fire gained power, in large part because he was able to blame the fire on "terrorists"-- then by damn any american shouldn't take offense at a mention of the date 9/11. Especially when that date was never mentioned except as response to american oversensitivity about an event that happened over 60 years ago! Yeah, "political correctness" is exactly the right term.

Anyway, before all the nonsense, the reason I came here was to share this bit of sony marketing:
http://vimeo.com/28111764
 
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LizaWitz

New member
Does anyone know if the NEX-7 has the touch screen that the NEX-5N does? The ability to do rack focus by touching the screen is a feature that I've been wanting since the first mirror less cameras came out.

This really is a game changer for video. It is a feature that is worth $700-$2,000 for people shooting movies, as that's what it would cost to put in an external rack-focus system.

For video, no other options have:
- 1080p/60 and 24fps on a large sensor
- pocketable with APS-C sized sensor
- Optical Steady shot of sony's caliber (which is in the new 50mm f1.8 lens as well)

The 5N has the touch screen rack focus, and I'm really hoping the 7 has it as well. The 7's viewfinder is great. While the larger VG series is good for people shooting from tripods, street video is great with the NEX-5 and probably with the 7 as well.

I have lived for years without a viewfinder, relying on the LCD on the back of my camera while shooting video, handheld is not great. The viewfinder will help a lot (but it breaks the "hold it at my waist and nobody knows I'm shooting video" pose.)

==================

Turns out the NEX-7 does NOT have the touch display... this is too bad... or maybe its good, cause it gives me an excuse to wait until next year, since the NEX-5 is doing fine for now.
 

uhoh7

New member
290 grams, sure. Add three or four lenses and hoods, those brass-ring filters you will surely get for your new lenses, a camera bag, flash and batteries and the weight difference to an A77 is marginal. And WRT handheld stability and sharpness I'll take a 900g camera body over a 290g any time. Sometimes less weight isn't a good thing.

Shooting with legacy glass once again has nothing to do with mass-market success. It's a pastime for a small gathering of enthusiasts.

Not even excitement from Leica shooters is any indications of potential mass-market success. Once again, a small, albeit price-insensitive, niche.

And if the best EVF ever made is limited to 1024x768 pixels then I don't see any bragging rights there whatsoever. Personally I think full HD is too limited for focusing, as my eyes - through an optical viewfinder - can resolve more than that.

I'm not stuck with in-the-box thinking at all - having used many cameras over the years I just know bad ergonomics when I see it.

BTW why dont you post with your real name so we can follow up on this discussion from either end a year from now?
I'll pm you my contact info--I'm easy to find--I use the same name on all the forums.

Would you consider the Nex-3 and 5 to be succesful cameras?

Certainly the nex-7, for my taste, would be smaller,and the EVF would be more like the x100, but with RF like splitscreen focusing.

But what it can do far outweighs the details.

They will not be able to produce enough of these cameras, you watch.

As far as the size with lenses, you once again miss the point:

With a nex, it's your choice. You can go lean, or you can go big.

As far as the legacy lens being "niche", this feature has attracted many to the nex line, and has brought the camera tremendous respect---priceless marketing.

It's curious you don't see the huge coup the Nex-7 represents. I'm no fan of giant corporations, but thank god for sony, in this case. Obviously Canon and Nikon think just like you do :)

To dismiss the ergonomics of the nex 7 out of hand, never having spent any time using it (not sure if you have shot with the nex), really is been there done that hubris.

Nothing new there, we have seen one silly review of the Nex-5 after the next, utterly missing the point of the camera, from digtital Rev to DP review.

Only a few ever bothered to get to know the camera, like steve huff, because their parameters were already set.

But it doesn't matter, the market knows much better.

I think Doug said he'd never pre-ordered a camera in his life, till this one. Posts like that are all over the place in the various forums. If that does not tell you something, you simply aren't listening.

I saw the same attitude amoung the wise elders when shaped skis came on the market

"It's a fad!" they said, loudly and repeatedly.

10 years later those same people can't even concieve of using "classic skis".

best,
Charlie :salute:

PS this guy never has and never will see a DSLR.


nex-5 + OM200/5 ;)
 

petetsai

Member
I really wanted to want the nex-7, but I'm swaying toward the nex-5n at this point. The high ISO quality is a known with the 5n and from what I've seen so far I'm not really impressed with the 7. I don't need 24mp on a crop frame, I want quality, so the sensor of the 5n fits the bill better as I shoot most of my street with this camera and I want to be able to have fast exposures. Everything else about the 7 featurewise I prefer, except lack of touchscreen but I'm not even sure if thats a must have as I've never owned a camera with one.

Maybe as more comparisons come out it may sway me, but the cost savings would also pay for 2/3 of the 24mm f1.8 as well...
 

douglasf13

New member
I really wanted to want the nex-7, but I'm swaying toward the nex-5n at this point. The high ISO quality is a known with the 5n and from what I've seen so far I'm not really impressed with the 7. I don't need 24mp on a crop frame, I want quality, so the sensor of the 5n fits the bill better as I shoot most of my street with this camera and I want to be able to have fast exposures. Everything else about the 7 featurewise I prefer, except lack of touchscreen but I'm not even sure if thats a must have as I've never owned a camera with one.

Maybe as more comparisons come out it may sway me, but the cost savings would also pay for 2/3 of the 24mm f1.8 as well...
I don't think there's going to be too much tangible difference between the Nex-5N and Nex-7 at high ISO. Everything we're seeing now is jpeg based, and the NEX-5N jpegs certainly look more dialed in, but raw is always an entirely different story with Sony. One user on dpreview posted raw comparisons between the A77 and A35, and they're in the same ballpark (and the NEX-7 should be better, since it doesn't have the half stop disadvantage of a mirror being in the way.)

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39193110&changemode=1
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Liza

thanks for taking care, but it´s OK, I know America and Americans pretty well, my sister lives in Canada (with C-Passport since years) and I know this is a weak point. I tend to try make drastical statements and I still think it´s valid, but maybe I should have taken this "specialty" into account. My mistake - not for making this statement, but to forget how emotional some people can get about this stuff.

Something else: I made a pic of some of my OM lenses - just to show how tiny they are. And they are really good too.Even with the planned Kipon tilt adapter ( I already drool for getting the 1,4/50 on that) this will be pocketsize for some of my wintercoats/Jackets or worst a really small bag.

And as I have seen my change in style the last years, this may mean I will do a lot of portraits/people and maybe nudes very soon - this combo really sounds too good to be true.

And I think this camera looks incredibly sexy, very technical, very photographic, not a plastic toy. Thanks Sony !

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

PS: forgot - the really cool feature of the OM lenses is their stop downs, press the 2 buttons that are also locking the lens and you can stop down to preselect f-stop. you will be able to do this just before exposure and get perfect workflow with measurement and focusing on open aperture.
 
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Jonas

Active member
(...)
And if the best EVF ever made is limited to 1024x768 pixels then I don't see any bragging rights there whatsoever. Personally I think full HD is too limited for focusing, as my eyes - through an optical viewfinder - can resolve more than that.

I'm not stuck with in-the-box thinking at all - having used many cameras over the years I just know bad ergonomics when I see it.
(...)
Hi Lars,

Since November 2008 i have been swaying back and forth between optical viewfinders (5DMkII) and EVFs (Panasonic G1 and later models).

It may be my ageing eyes but I have to say the EVF beats the optical ones whenever critical focusing is of interest. The EVF also has some other things going for it, like camera information showed right in the viewfinder and the possibility to review images in the viewfinder, very much improved conditions for focusing in the dark and so on. For anyone in need of reading glasses all this is great.

OTOH the optical viewfinder is faster, as fast a ray of light...

The EVF resolution is of interest. I found that the Minolta A2 VGA viewfinder wasn't really enough. The G1 however managed to give me an image were the pixels weren't obviously visible. If Sony has managed to improve on that I think it's "good enough". When you mention you can resolve better using an optical viewfinder you dismiss features like enlarged view and JPG setting reflected in "real-time" in the viewfinder.

The big problem with the EVFs this far has been the shutter lag. I guess it's due to the viewfinder and the shutter mechanism. Until today mirror free cameras suffered from a shutter having to close before opening and taking the image. It will be interesting to see how the Nex-7 behaves there as Sony say they have introduced an electronic first curtain.

As I said earlier; if we can agree about waiting before saying something is the best ever, then we should also be able to wait before saying something is bad.

regards,

Jonas
 
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