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Thread: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    http://www.sonynex7.net/

    http://www.systemkamera-forum.de/blo...08/sony-nex-7/ for english use this
    http://translate.google.de/translate...x-7%2F&act=url

    Camera is announced for december 2011 for 1199 $.

    I think this means I´ll be a Sony user soon.....;-)))

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    http://www.sonynex7.net/

    http://www.systemkamera-forum.de/blo...08/sony-nex-7/ for english use this
    http://translate.google.de/translate...x-7%2F&act=url

    Camera is announced for december 2011 for 1199 $.

    I think this means I´ll be a Sony user soon.....;-)))

    Regards
    Stefan
    The future of what?

    -Marc

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Stefan,
    Perhaps you might say why?
    -bob

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I was looking for a camera to go with me everywhere - my 5DII+BG-E6 with my Vario Sonnar 24-85 is nice but just a brick. I tried but I cannot do this.
    I also have my iPhone 4 with me all the time, the camera is surprisingly good, but hey-I used 8x10 inch for 25 years - it´s somehow not what I want when I see something interesting.
    I have taken a look to the nex3 and nex5 but I thought the features were not quite there.
    But now there is this new OLED electronic viewfinder - which shall be "on par" with every optical finder with all the electronic advantages - YES thats right for my aging eyes and I can use my nice old collection of tiny excellent olympus lenses either with tilt or shift from out of my pocket....
    The whole list reads to be to good to be true. DSLR beware - if the output holds up to the feature list this december may become the 12/11 of DSLR photography.(the day that changes it all)

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I REALLY understand the old eyes bit.
    ...but I have read lots of words like these before and frankly I need to get one of those things in my hands and up to my eyes before I have an opinion.
    -bob

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Spoiler alert! Highlight to read.
    The finder won't be on par with decent 100% optical finders and nowhere near any rangefinders nor medium format.

    p.s. 12/11? What happened on that date? Excuse my ignorance.
    p.p.s Please don't take my post the wrong way, it looks like a great camera. I just don't like the dependence on telecentric lenses inherent in the NEX design, and I don't believe in putting too much stock in a single camera to be the second coming. For me, the M9 was a revelation, but for others it is a let-down. Don't go selling all your gear until you've properly used the camera and discovered whether it *is* more convenient and *does* provide a superior (or on-par) final product.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Spoiler alert! Highlight to read.
    The finder won't be on par with decent 100% optical finders and nowhere near any rangefinders nor medium format.
    That is what I expect as well.
    But am willing to suspend disbelief until I can see one.

    -bob

    p.s.
    This is a very expensive habit of mine as I buy lots of stuff based on the marketing materials only to find it sort of unsatisfactory.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Wasn't it December 7th?

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Ahh, this is an aphorism to 9/11. Not a joke and a serious date, but for the industry I could imagine this to be a similar landmark.

    And Bob - sure - we need to see this and I need to make picture by myself - I don´t believe ANY tests maybe with the exception of LLoyd at diglloyd.com or Andy Westlake at DPreview.com.

    the dpreview page is down at the moment - they have a hands on preview on the Nex 7 - which I definitely want to read ASAP !

    of course this is not to be my working camera for jobs I will use my IR+UV- antialias converted 5DII + Hartblei superrotators, my HCam + Digiback whatever resoultion up to 80 Mpix plus my newly bought Mamiya RZ II Pro (soon D) plus about 15 lenses for serious stuff. But It is definitely sexy to have something again like in earlier days my Nikon EL2+ 50 Micro Nikkor I was carrying with me for YEARS - no joke everywhere, i felt naked without it.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Ahh, this is an aphorism to 9/11. Not a joke and a serious date, but for the industry I could imagine this to be a similar landmark.

    And Bob - sure - we need to see this and I need to make picture by myself - I don´t believe ANY tests maybe with the exception of LLoyd at diggloyd.com or Andy Westlake at DPreview.com.

    the dpreview page is down at the moment - they have a hands on preview on the Nex 7 - which I definitely want to read ASAP !

    regards
    Stefan
    Stefan,
    And I would skip those too as well.
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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I place Lloyd from diglloyd on par with Ken Rockwell.

    I'll wait until Sean Reid, Steve Huff or a forum member reviews one.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Daniel

    there are pretty nice Leica M lens adapters for Sony Nex..........;-)))

    regards
    Stefan
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Well - it looks interesting to me, interesting enough to order one, which means that if I don't like it I can get rid of it without losing out too much.

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Daniel

    there are pretty nice Leica M lens adapters for Sony Nex..........;-)))

    regards
    Stefan
    Only useful for lenses ~24mm (35mm equiv) and longer. I would need cornerfix profiles for every moderately wide lens and anything wider than about 18mm (~28mm) need not apply. Some designs like the pre-asph 35 lux and 21mm super-angulon are also non-starters on nex.

    I might be interested for video, however wide angle (wider than 35mm) is not pretty with adapted rangefinder glass.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    For a rough estimation how a new camera is all these tests are equally good IMHO.

    For a decision on what I need and how useable it is for me it can be only my decision.

    Thus I actually could not care less about any tests from whoever calls themselves a "camera or lens tester"

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    It's interesting to see how we can agree about waiting before saying things are good - and then feel free to say they are bad.

    I mean, I have seen WA images from the M9 in need of a cornerfix fix despite having been processed in-camera. I have also seen fully usable WA images taken with the Nex C3. I say we should wait and see before judging, in either direction.

    The specifications make the camera super interesting. If it delivers in real world use, well....

    /Jonas

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    after some more reading the news I also found this - very clever:

    http://www.systemkamera-forum.de/blo..._medium=E-Mail

    and here translated to english:

    http://translate.google.de/translate...edium%3DE-Mail

    for all the guys and girls with the nice Zeiss Autofocus lenses - this is definitely a benefit.

    regards
    Stefan
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    Super Duper
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Looks very interesting to me - ahigh quality sensor in a relativly small body including a viewfinder.
    Now Sony needs to bring some fast primes for the NEX like Oly and Pana have done the last weeks. The 24mm for the NEX is a starting point.
    I see this as an important point.

    I have also made up my mind (since getting the G3) regarding EVF and OVF.
    I prefer OVF....as long as they have a certain size.
    But I guess for cameras like the NEX or m4/3 or maybe even DX OVF get relativly small and in this case EVF might work better.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    This adapter looks promising. Same should be possible for mounting 43 Zuiko lenses on M43 bodies with full PDAF and speed.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    HI Tom
    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Looks very interesting to me - ahigh quality sensor in a relativly small body including a viewfinder.
    Now Sony needs to bring some fast primes for the NEX like Oly and Pana have done the last weeks. The 24mm for the NEX is a starting point.
    I see this as an important point.
    I don't think they will be able to do small fast primes - the problem is that they don't seem to be able to do small for APS/c - it's always the thing that brings one back to m4/3 - smaller lenses. On the other hand, the leica primes are better on APS/c
    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I have also made up my mind (since getting the G3) regarding EVF and OVF.
    I prefer OVF....as long as they have a certain size.
    But I guess for cameras like the NEX or m4/3 or maybe even DX OVF get relativly small and in this case EVF might work better.
    I prefer an OVF as well, but the Olympus evf isn't too bad, and this Sony one should be a lot better.

    We'll see!

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I would say with this electronic viewfinder i don´t even need AF. My old Olympus OM lenses are tiny AND fast AND sharp - and even better some of them are darn cheap to get. I have several of them, collected through the last years, bought on Ebay for some bucks and this is something that I will love to use now.... ;-)))

    there are Tilt and there are shift adapters already for under 100 € on Ebay (Kipon) and maybe maybe......as I am in close contact of a company who make TS stuff......lets see

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Only useful for lenses ~24mm (35mm equiv) and longer. I would need cornerfix profiles for every moderately wide lens and anything wider than about 18mm (~28mm) need not apply. Some designs like the pre-asph 35 lux and 21mm super-angulon are also non-starters on nex.

    I might be interested for video, however wide angle (wider than 35mm) is not pretty with adapted rangefinder glass.
    There is a link to comparisons between NEX5 and the NEXC3 around here somewhere, with adapted RF lenses. The colors shift problems appear to be significantly improved or even eliminated, hopefully the 7 sensor has this as well (don't know why it wouldn't.)

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    My old Olympus OM lenses are tiny AND fast AND sharp - and even better some of them are darn cheap to get.
    Agreed. These are great lenses on the NEX.
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    ... the future is never here

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    For a rough estimation how a new camera is all these tests are equally good IMHO.

    For a decision on what I need and how useable it is for me it can be only my decision.

    Thus I actually could not care less about any tests from whoever calls themselves a "camera or lens tester"
    +1 ... the future is never "here" ... it's always in the future.

    All the reviews are useful for is providing information about a camera's features, controls and specifications. The moment they leap off into evaluations and opinion, my eyes glaze over and a flip to the next page. I've never found any of their tests or opinions to be of any value.

    The NEX 7 looks like it might be a very fine camera. It's going to have to be to compete against the Ricoh GXR with its dedicated A12 Camera Mount for M-bayonet lenses, for my purposes, or with the upcoming Leica LIVE camera system recently announced. The feature list looks great, the camera's controls look better than anything else recent out of Sony ...

    I look forward to seeing one when hit hits the stores. Ya never know, I might buy one or at least a body. At that point, I'll have been using the GXR+A12 Camera Mount with a small collection of nice M-bayonet lenses from 21mm to 90mm for a few months and will have a solid basis of comparison, tuned to my needs and purposes.

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    Re: ... the future is never here

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    +1 ... the future is never "here" ... it's always in the future.

    All the reviews are useful for is providing information about a camera's features, controls and specifications. The moment they leap off into evaluations and opinion, my eyes glaze over and a flip to the next page. I've never found any of their tests or opinions to be of any value.

    The NEX 7 looks like it might be a very fine camera. It's going to have to be to compete against the Ricoh GXR with its dedicated A12 Camera Mount for M-bayonet lenses, for my purposes, or with the upcoming Leica LIVE camera system recently announced. The feature list looks great, the camera's controls look better than anything else recent out of Sony ...

    I look forward to seeing one when hit hits the stores. Ya never know, I might buy one or at least a body. At that point, I'll have been using the GXR+A12 Camera Mount with a small collection of nice M-bayonet lenses from 21mm to 90mm for a few months and will have a solid basis of comparison, tuned to my needs and purposes.
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Ahh, this is an aphorism to 9/11. Not a joke and a serious date, but for the industry I could imagine this to be a similar landmark.
    Just for the record, most Americans take this date very seriously, and any comment no matter how "distinctly" or "directly" stated, is generally not associated with anything good or positive. So in no way do I see the announcement of a new camera on any date being appropriate to compare to the United States 9-11...
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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Jack

    As I said this is not to be meant to harm anybodies feelings, but it may as well be seen as a negative impact for some DSLR companies in some years looking back. Time will show if my drastic words were right.

    I understand that "PC" is important in the US, but there was no insult in using this and I always thought in british/american tradition a free argument as long as it has content is what helped to build these countries, so this is essential to the democratic discussion culture.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Only useful for lenses ~24mm (35mm equiv) and longer. I would need cornerfix profiles for every moderately wide lens and anything wider than about 18mm (~28mm) need not apply. Some designs like the pre-asph 35 lux and 21mm super-angulon are also non-starters on nex.

    I might be interested for video, however wide angle (wider than 35mm) is not pretty with adapted rangefinder glass.
    The NEX-C3 already largely corrects this issue, and I'd expect the Nex-7 to do the same.

    p.s. Steve Huff seems a great guy, but, as a technical reviewer, dubious at best.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Stefan,

    Aside from whether it is "PC" to refer to 9/11, it is simply stupid. Sony can put Canon and Nikon and Leica out of business, and it wouldn't be comparable to a terrorist attack that killed thousands of people. Your claim that there is some sort of "PC" sensitivity that makes it hard for your brilliant insights to be aired is just silly.

    Steve

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Well said Stephen.

    I think we understand that Stephan meant no disrespect, and we both understand that different countries/cultures view things differently. However, it never hurts to clarify exactly where and when certain limits are reached...

    Let's all shake hands and move forward with the point of the thread, the new Sony
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Looks good on paper, but I don't get the beer can on a credit card design of these things.

    Anyway, this will be the camera of the month until Fuji/Pana/Nikon/Leica/etc come out with new ones and everyone rushes off to buy those so they can test it by shooting brick walls, bookcases, and cluttered desktops. Gets a bit ridiculous.....

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    ...For me, the M9 was a revelation, but for others it is a let-down. ...
    Yeah as in have to mortgage my house letdown.
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Looks good on paper, but I don't get the beer can on a credit card design of these things.
    Agreed. Luckily, that "credit card" has a built in high resolution viewfinder (comparable in size and brightness to a 35mm FF viewfinder, from the reports), a built-in flash, a hotshoe, full/direct manual controls with 3 different dials and several buttons, a tilting (even though I would have preferred a fully articulating one) 3" high resolution screen and a 24MP APS-C sensor.
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Stefan,

    I find the whole idea of a tiny body more or less useless - lenses aren't smaller so it's still not anywhere close to a compact camera. Sony should have focused hard on making lenses with a smaller outer envelope, like Leica does.

    Without a built-in EVF I don't see much bragging rights there - keeping an attachment finder in the hotshoe at all times is awkward and brings the volume of the whole thing up to DSLR size (if not weight). Sony should have built in an EVF like (conceptually) in the Fuji X100.

    EDIT: Sorry I looked at NEX5N. built-in EVF makes a dfference. But lenses are still bulky and it sure ain't pretty
    Last edited by Lars; 24th August 2011 at 09:09.
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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by roweraay View Post
    Agreed. Luckily, that "credit card" has a built in high resolution viewfinder (comparable in size and brightness to a 35mm FF viewfinder, from the reports), a built-in flash, a hotshoe, full/direct manual controls with 3 different dials and several buttons, a tilting (even though I would have preferred a fully articulating one) 3" high resolution screen and a 24MP APS-C sensor.
    My mistake I saw pics of the NEX5N w external viewfinder.
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I'm not sure if THE future is here, but I think MY future is here with the NEX-7. Looks great, so far.

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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Lars

    I am also astonished about how big these standard lenses are.probably because of the AF and zoom and whatever. There are 2 new small primes announced for it, these should be pretty good. But I will not even use these. I have here some really small OM lenses that I will use with a Kipon Tilt adapter

    http://cgi.ebay.de/Kipon-Tilt-Adapte...item5196fa42f9.

    It may be even possible we will make a full TS version for it (using the camera myself helps to get motivated.....) ;-)

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    here is the link to DPreview- they are online again, after some hours offline today - somebody knows what happened ?

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/1108/11...x7overview.asp
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  39. #39
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    bye bye 5DII

    fingers crossed that zilions of others may also opt to kiss their Canon 5D MKIIs goodbye as a result of today's Sony launch that will help push the used price of the Canon 5D MKII down to the current price for a used Canon 5d that will be cause for celebration for us bottom feeders until canon launch their next generation of DSLRs that will push the used price of a Sony down that will be a cause for celebration until...

    ^^^^^^^^
    o
    o
    o


    (no i'm not holding my breath)

  40. #40
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    It´s funny that some people do neither read nor understand what is written.Nobody said that everybody will throw away his or hers 5DII.
    But starting from december significantly more will think about of how a camera will look like that could replace a 60D or 7D for ease of use, a more advanced viewfinder and a much more refined concept of modular usage.
    Even if this Sony EVF may not yet be the perfect solution, I am sure that nobody is thinking a 5DII finder is the perfect solution.
    And actually not so many 5DII are sold compared to smaller APSC DSLR´s, these are the bread and butter turnaraound makers for the Canon´s and Nikons of this world. This will hurt them MUCH more than these (comparably) "some" full format bodies.
    I bet with this Sony lauch a comparable camera from Canon will follow. Nikon is already close to launch something like this and this will even cannibalize their own DSLR´s.

    So - have fun in Danmark
    Stefan
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  41. #41
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    "it may as well be seen as a negative impact for some DSLR companies in some years looking back. Time will show if my drastic words were right."

    at least we agree about this

  42. #42
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    I don't think NEX7 will sell in large volumes at all. Seriosuly, who would buy it?
    It's too expensive for the mass market so it's not an alternative to even high-end compacts like G12 etc.
    It's too big to be pocketable, even with a pancake lens, so it doesn't replace a compact.
    It's too expensive and too big to be a compact travel alternative to a DSLR.
    The system is nowhere complete enough to be seen as an only system for.

    What remains, then, is enthusiasts who are not cost sensitive, looking for more of the latest gear.
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  43. #43
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    What remains, then, is enthusiasts who are not cost sensitive, looking for more of the latest gear.
    Or enthusiasts who are looking for a platform fo adapted rangefinder and older SLR lenses.
    Agree that's also not going to ba a huge mass of people.

    However only time will tell, same logic could be applied to the Nex 3 and 5 when they came out, and I think they have been a reasonable success.

  44. #44
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Or enthusiasts who are looking for a platform fo adapted rangefinder and older SLR lenses.
    Agree that's also not going to ba a huge mass of people.

    However only time will tell, same logic could be applied to the Nex 3 and 5 when they came out, and I think they have been a reasonable success.
    Resonable success yes, but hardly world-changing. NEX7 is in a different price bracket, significantly higher than entry-level DSLRs so it won't be seen as an alternative to a DSLR by the mass market.

    I think Sony needs a few more generations of the NEX system to find its identity. Perhaps they should consider joining the camera and lens departments.
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  45. #45
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Obviously the Nex 7 is more of a niche product, unlike the Nex 3/5. I would not expect Sony to sell huge quantities either, but I know a lot of advanced amateurs, even non Sony users, who are very eager to get it (just look at FM alt forum).

    I know I will order one as soon as available, together with the Zeiss 24/1.8.

    Imho, the Nex 7 is not the future, but it gives us an idea on how the future is going to look like. All cameras will be mirrorless sooner or later.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  46. #46
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Lars
    if you take a look at Sony themselves you may come to the conclusion you are right - they are playing this like the sink battleships game with 3 shots at the same time the Nex7 the 77 and the 65 all 3 with the same sensors and similar features (EVF).
    But Even if Sony will not become Market leader immediately (I´m pretty sure this will NOT happen) the impact of this will be a shift to these Mirrorless systems. And this is not only my opinion, Michael Reichmann calls it a game changer, DPreview says :" This is clearly Sony's response to its discovery that it's not just upgraders from point-and-shoot compacts that are interested in this type of camera."
    We will see - in a year we can talk about what happened.
    And in the meantime I´ll get this for my walk arounds ;-)

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  47. #47
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Stefan,
    Reichmann isn't exactly the most insightful person on the planet - his talent is in networking (getting all manufacturers to lend him products to review). His best technical and photographic insights come from guest authors. I would rather say the Fuji X100 is a game changer.

    What I DO like about Sony's recent releases though, is that it pushes its competitors WRT resulution as well as image quality and computing speed. Perhaps Nikon can finally climb out of the 12 Mpx trench and realize it needs higher res sensors AND lenses to compete. Rumors say that's in the works, but I believe it when I see it.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  48. #48
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    on dpreview there already is a hands on preview of the A77 with samples

    http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta77/page7.asp

    this should be comparable to theNex7(same sensor, same lenses usable)

    there is a black and white image, I have downloaded this and run this through photoshop with a little sharpness tweaking - OMG !
    This will be a lot of fun !

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  49. #49
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Stefan,
    I would rather say the Fuji X100 is a game changer.


    Sorry for the strong language
    A very expensive niche camera with a fixed lens which main attraction is retro style can never be a game changer in my book. It might give good IQ, but for that price with it's limited options it better does that or otherwise it doesn't even have a reason for existence.

  50. #50
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: The future is here - Sony Nex 7

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    A very expensive niche camera with a fixed lens which main attraction is retro style can never be a game changer in my book. It might give good IQ, but for that price with it's limited options it better does that or otherwise it doesn't even have a reason for existence.
    I was more thinking of the viewfinder of the X100, which conceptually qualifies as a game changer, at least to me (though I have never used one so implementation might not meet the promise).

    You could turn your argument around and ask what's the big deal is about an EVF camera whose main attraction is piss-poor ergonomics unless you have tiny Japanese hands.

    I still don't understand why you are so excited about the NEX7 that you want to call it a game changer. What game is changed, and for whom?
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