Sony NEX-7 Discussion

[LizaWitz]

Spent the day shooting video in bright sunlight with the NEX-5. First real shooting day since the NEX-7 was announced. I've adapted to the LCD viewfinder, so I wasn't really wishing I had the EVF of the NEX-7 (though I'm sure I'll appreciate it).

What I really was missing was a mic-input jack on the NEX-5. We've started doing standup shots and we're going to be doing interviews more and more going forward and today was a disaster, almost.

We're in venice. Great location, right? Shooting from the bridges with the canals in the background.

So, of course, the on camera mics are picking up everyone walking by, the boats going by, etc, and when those things are quiet, of course the wind blows across them. Today we had the our talent holding a recorder with a mic attached to her lapel. But she'd start and stop the recorder at different times than we were starting and stopping the camera, and after the fact I've now got a lot of audio to sync with video.

Fortunately, and this one feature is why I will buy the NEX-7-- the new camera has a mic input.

So, the EVF is nice, the built in flash is nice, the extra controls are nice, the seemingly thicker grip is nice, but that little mic hole is worth $1,200 to me.

 

[kit laughlin]

Can I make a suggestion?

Get a Zoom H4n; great broadcast-standard recording, and keep on using the same camera. Slate (or handclap) for sync. This method has worked for the last—oh, 100 years or so.

lapel mike > radio transmitter > > receiver > Zoom (I suggest taped to the camera tripod, or in your pocket). The control is in your hands.

record; call "handclap", and you're good to go; and the handclap can be done at the end of the recording "end slate"). Reliable, and no need for a mike socket.

 

[bradhusick]

Can I make a suggestion?

Get a Zoom H4n; great broadcast-standard recording, and keep on using the same camera. Slate (or handclap) for sync. This method has worked for the last—oh, 100 years or so.

lapel mike > radio transmitter > > receiver > Zoom (I suggest taped to the camera tripod, or in your pocket). The control is in your hands.

record; call "handclap", and you're good to go; and the handclap can be done at the end of the recording "end slate"). Reliable, and no need for a mike socket.

Kit is totally right. On-camera audio is inferior and limiting. Separate digital audio recorders are the best way to go, hands-down.

 

[ustein]

>Separate digital audio recorders are the best way to go, hands-down.

Don't forget to also record in camera to sync sound.

 

[hot]

Best - using Zoom H1, records on microSDHC, price < $ 99

 

[das_schlechte_gewissen]

Mmhh, there is an external mic for the NEX5 from Sony. You simply put it on the top accessory port of the camera.
Downside is that you can't use it together with the NEX 7.

 

[kit laughlin]

The only reason I prefer the H4n is that it accepts XLR connectors: very low noise, and universal cabling system.

Uwe, you can record in-camera sound too, and it's always a good idea to have as backup (or atmosphere), too.

For the OP, make sure you delete the "guide" track (Uwe's suggestion for how to use the in-camera around); otherwise (depending on your editing program) each track may be regarded as the two halves of a stereo pair—and the sound will not be good!

I suggest an on-camera shotgun mic, and the other setup for the on-camera speaker. He/she (if doing interviews) could use that feed as a hand-geld mic, so that they can both speak and get the interviewee's responses; mic is in vision. Done every day on TV.

hth, kl

 

[LizaWitz]

Sorry for being slow to respond, I've been on the road since making my post. Thanks very much for the advice!

Get a Zoom H4n; great broadcast-standard recording, and keep on using the same camera. Slate (or handclap) for sync. This method has worked for the last—oh, 100 years or so.

Before making my post I'd looked at Zoom recorders and considered going this route. The thing is, I've done this in the past, and it eats up a lot of time. Just thinking about it right now stresses me out. I'm not ruling it out, but if we can cut out that step it would have a big impact on the effective cost of this project. So, I'm hoping actually to do both-- use the zoom to effectively record, and provide a quality (no AGC) signal to the camera.

Best - using Zoom H1, records on microSDHC, price < $ 99

We bought a lapel mic. I just saw an H1 this evening in target and was thinking about buying it.

If we plug the lapel mic into the H1's external mic port, will it record three channels? (Stereo from the built in mics and then the additional mic channel?)

I wish the H1 had both a line out and a monitor. I don't know if I can put a splitter in there and plug in headphones.

I'd like to run the lapel mic into the H1, record from all three mics, and at the same time, run the output to BOTH a headset for monitoring, and into the mic port of a (future possibly) NEX-7 to record the results along with the video.

Then we get two recordings of audio and sync should be really easy since the waveforms should be identical.

But I may be asking too much from a $99 recorder.

I suggest an on-camera shotgun mic, and the other setup for the on-camera speaker. He/she (if doing interviews) could use that feed as a hand-geld mic, so that they can both speak and get the interviewee's responses; mic is in vision. Done every day on TV.

hth, kl

Yes, thinking along these lines too. In fact, interviewer could be picked up with the lapel mic running into the Zoom and the Zoom could be used as a handheld mic....for the interviewee to speak into.


Edit to add: Hot, you always have the sexy gear. I like that mounting setup.

 

[kit laughlin]

Lisa,

If we plug the lapel mic into the H1's external mic port, will it record three channels? (Stereo from the built in mics and then the additional mic channel?)

I am in Chattanooga now, and the recorder is with a friend, but IIRC, once you plug an external mic in, the "taser" mics are cut off.

Yes, thinking along these lines too. In fact, interviewer could be picked up with the lapel mic running into the Zoom and the Zoom could be used as a handheld mic....for the interviewee to speak into.

yes, that is what I think is the best way with your setup

cheers

KL

 

[LizaWitz]

Kit, I think there's a misunderstanding. Normally I'd just get the manuals and see, but none of the Zoom manuals answer the question.

The method I was proposing, which you said "I think is the best way..." was to use the Zoom H1 as a mic, using its internal mics, *AND* to have the lavaliere mic plugged into the external port.

I'm guessing in this configuration, either the built in mics go to one channel and the external mic to the other, or the external overrides the built in.

I can't find any indication of how external mics are handled on any of the zooms, though I know the H4 and H2 should be able to record quad.

 

[kit laughlin]

Lisa, you are right, if talking about the H4n: you can record four channels (see the small screenshot). I was talking about the Zoom H1, the one you mentioned (I don't own this) and a quick search doesn't answer the question. Someone else might come in on this.

Looks like your problem is solved if you intend to use the H4n.

The only downside is that the H4n is heavy. Worth considering, too, is that the H1 takes micro SD cards and has no XLR connectors.

regards

KL

 

[LizaWitz]

Thanks for the help Kit. I'm going to go try and find some forums where people have used the H1 and ask around. Thanks for the pointer on H4n weight, I'll see if that's going to be a problem for us.

 

[saxshooter]

Kit makes some great suggestions. When I shoot video with my 5D Mark II I use the onboard microphone and also have a separate digital recorder hooked up to a shotgun or a wireless lavalier, depending on the job, and recording audio the entire time. The onboard dSLR microphone records my "backup" audio. I match it up later in the edit.

A colleague who is using the new Final Cut Pro X tells me that there is an easy way to match up audio recorded on a separate device to imported video footage. Clap may no longer be needed.

I've got a Sony NEX-7 on order. Very excited for the EVF with focus peaking!

 

[hot]

So excited!! My Nex 7 body says it will ship on 12/13/2011!!
If you preordered, take a look on Sonystyle!

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1042&message=40061777

 

[hot]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1042&message=40075955

 

[ecsh]

Body only. I ordered the kit. Apparently they do not have any of those.
Joe

 

[ken_vs_ryu]

Luminous Landscape> "There is no question (to my eyes at least) that the Sony sensor out-resolves the Leica using the same lens. The 50mm Summilux f/1.4 ASPH is one of the finest lenses of its focal length. What we are seeing is that this lens can out-resolve the M9's 18MP sensor, because the 24MP Sony sensor clearly shows better resolution of fine detail even though the M9 does not have an AA filter, and the NEX-7 does
This result shouldn't be a surprise, because when I visited the Leica factory two years ago I asked Leica's chief lens designer if sensors were out-resolving lenses yet, and his answer was – no not yet. It would appear that the NEX-7's 24MP sensor shows this to be the case."

 

[philip_pj]

And I would expect that when (not 'if') Sony release a 28M-30 Mp APS-C sensor, the images it takes will show yet more 'detail'. It seems Michael may be implying that the NEX7 sensor is 'outresolving' the Leica lens mentioned. I don't believe he has has established this as a fact, if indeed that is his contention.

Comparing two sensors with the same lens is a sensor comparison! We have no reason to believe the NEX7 sensor does anything more than approach the lens performance more closely than the Leica sensor, should his observations be valid.

Also, this is not a bottleneck issue, with the weakest link being the limiting factor. A higher Mp sensor will, ceteris paribus, always deliver a better image than a lower Mp camera...this is optical science at work, because the total system MTF is a *multiplicative function* - increase the performance (MTF here) of either major component and you increase the final image quality (and vice versa). So well done Sony, but the case for its latest APS-C sensor 'outresolving' the lens used is far from being evidenced.

And other factors intrude: 'outresolve' where? all of the frame, or just the centre? All apertures, or just the best performing one?

Regarding the lens, I have the MTF chart for the LEICA SUMMILUX-M 50 mm f/1.4 ASPH; it certainly is a fine performer, but there are better 50-60mm options, especially the macro lenses from Leica and Zeiss.

 

[hot]

 

[Paratom]

Luminous Landscape> "There is no question (to my eyes at least) that the Sony sensor out-resolves the Leica using the same lens. The 50mm Summilux f/1.4 ASPH is one of the finest lenses of its focal length. What we are seeing is that this lens can out-resolve the M9's 18MP sensor, because the 24MP Sony sensor clearly shows better resolution of fine detail even though the M9 does not have an AA filter, and the NEX-7 does
This result shouldn't be a surprise, because when I visited the Leica factory two years ago I asked Leica's chief lens designer if sensors were out-resolving lenses yet, and his answer was – no not yet. It would appear that the NEX-7's 24MP sensor shows this to be the case."

I dont understand the article on LL.

1) the Nex images look sharper than the ones of the M9 - so why does the Nex7 sensor outresolve the lens?? It would outresolve the lens if the lens on the Nex7 would not deliver better images even though the sensor has more resolution.

2) I think we all have seen before that different sensor-even when having the same pixel density can lead to different results, for example cause by micro lens assignment etc. (remember how some m-lenses dont shine on thre Nex5 but look better on the Nex5N)

3) Comparing a downsampled image to a cropped 100% image doesnt tell much IMO.

IMO the only relevant comparison would be to shoot one image with a 35asph on the Nex and the other with a 50 asph on the M9, print at same size and look at the results.

I am still surprized how fast some people draw conclusions based on 2 or 3 images.