Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 58

Thread: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

  1. #1
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Hi there
    I've just seen this on Alpha Rumours
    Sony Alpha Rumors

    Seems like a 36mp full frame sensor (same to be used on the Nikon 800). With an SLT screen and a lower price.

    Interesting at the very least.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    384
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Thanks Jonathan

  3. #3
    Senior Member dhsimmonds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    904
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    20

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there
    I've just seen this on Alpha Rumours
    Sony Alpha Rumors

    Seems like a 36mp full frame sensor (same to be used on the Nikon 800). With an SLT screen and a lower price.

    Interesting at the very least.

    all the best
    This is good news Jono. I particularly like the bit about new lenses for the "A99" which should also fit the A900 and A77! I just hope that they get the firmware right this time before releasing it!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by dhsimmonds View Post
    This is good news Jono. I particularly like the bit about new lenses for the "A99" which should also fit the A900 and A77! I just hope that they get the firmware right this time before releasing it!
    HI Dave
    I do as well (hope they get the firmware right) . . . but I have to tell you, we have had zero problems with the original 1.02 firmware, and if you do a bit of searching on the net it would seem to me that most others don't have problems either (i.e. there isn't much about it).

    I'm now teetering on the brink of coughing up the readies for the 24 zeiss. teetering, teetering.

    Just this guy you know

  5. #5
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    I will have to say that personally, I wouldn't be interested in an SLT, unless the mirror can be moved out of the way by some mirror lock up mechanism. Hopefully Sony will provide this feature. Otherwise I will probably wait until Sony makes its first FF mirrorless body. I just started shooting film with Minolta 7 bodies and my Sony Zeiss lenses, and I'm enjoying it a lot, so I'm not in a hurry to upgrade my A900 which is still working perfectly. I would be very interested in the new lens announcements though.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  6. #6
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Not likely to happen without a major redesign, Ed. The mirror can be manually popped out of the way for sensor cleaning, but it sticks out of the throat of the lens mount so lenses cannot be used with the mirror up.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    I hope Nikon aren't going to put a sensor like that in the D800, D4X maybe but not the D800.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I hope Nikon aren't going to put a sensor like that in the D800, D4X maybe but not the D800.
    Hah . . maybe you're right Ben, but wouldn't it be a release not to have to do all that up-ressing?

    Just this guy you know

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    I will have to say that personally, I wouldn't be interested in an SLT, unless the mirror can be moved out of the way by some mirror lock up mechanism.
    Hi Ed
    of course I understand the 1/3 stop disadvantage of an SLT . . . but have you tried the viewfinder on the A77? there's a couple of minutes of disappointment that it isn't optical . . . followed by a real pleasure at seeing the WB and the exposure 'as it is'. Instinctively I'd prefer an OVF, but going back to one is rather odd - I've been shooting this evening with the A77 and the 24 f2 - the combination is quite compelling.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  10. #10
    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    526
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    I'm really looking forward to the a900 replacement, considering how much I like the a900... I hope they have one more optical viewfinder, but if not, I'll probably be just fine with an evf, just taking some getting used to.

    After using the M9 since December 2009, I want the Sony to raise the bar. Lacking an AA filter, the M9 produces a superior image, even with lower MP numbers, but the a900 produces a really great result with excellent color. At 36MP, I'll be surprised if the a900 replacement won't produce a superior image to the M9, most especially at higher ISO's.

    Then, Leica needs to raise their bar as well.
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    I'm really looking forward to the a900 replacement, considering how much I like the a900... I hope they have one more optical viewfinder, but if not, I'll probably be just fine with an evf, just taking some getting used to.

    After using the M9 since December 2009, I want the Sony to raise the bar. Lacking an AA filter, the M9 produces a superior image, even with lower MP numbers, but the a900 produces a really great result with excellent color. At 36MP, I'll be surprised if the a900 replacement won't produce a superior image to the M9, most especially at higher ISO's.

    Then, Leica needs to raise their bar as well.
    All we need to do is to keep our bank balances well charged!

    I slipped up today and bought the zeiss/sony 24 f2 - it works quite well on the A77 . . .and on the A900 too, the only thing it isn't good for is my credit card!

    Just this guy you know

  12. #12
    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    526
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Jono, compared to leica glass... Anything for the Sony gear is inexpensive.
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    44
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    I am pretty happy with my A900 except for high ISO. I've felt that if Sony's next FF camera gives me at least a stop better usable ISO (preferably more), I'll get one no matter what they have screwed up (like possibly an EVF vs Optical, though I think I could live with the EVF, the G1 I have is almost there and the Sony OLED sounds better). If they don't give me at least a stop better, I can't imagine what they could do to make me want one. More resolution isn't something I'm personally interested in.

    With that in mind, the pixel pitch of a 36 Mpixel FF sensor is very, very close to the 16 Mpixel APS sensor. If the sensor in the next FF camera is a scaled up version of the latest 16 Mpixel APS sensor, there is a very, very good chance that high ISO will be great! The latest Sony 16 Mpixel sensor seems to be at least a stop and half better than the one in the A700.

    I'm looking forward to it.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    384
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    When I sent my a77 back yesterday for unlocking, Sony upgraded the firmware to 1.03 and there is no longer time lag in the EVF. The camera is much more snappy....

  15. #15
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Not likely to happen without a major redesign, Ed. The mirror can be manually popped out of the way for sensor cleaning, but it sticks out of the throat of the lens mount so lenses cannot be used with the mirror up.
    That's too bad Carlos. I still hope Sony might surprise us with a classic DSLR model Though.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  16. #16
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Ed
    of course I understand the 1/3 stop disadvantage of an SLT . . . but have you tried the viewfinder on the A77? there's a couple of minutes of disappointment that it isn't optical . . . followed by a real pleasure at seeing the WB and the exposure 'as it is'. Instinctively I'd prefer an OVF, but going back to one is rather odd - I've been shooting this evening with the A77 and the 24 f2 - the combination is quite compelling.

    all the best
    First, congratulations for the A77 and 24/2, Jono. I love this lens.

    For sure, I have no concern about the EVF. I don't have any particular preference for an OVF and I do find the EVF idea more practical for most applications. My concern is about the mirror, not only the slight light loss, but also the slight image degradation. I have seen some evidence that indeed there is a softening effect mostly visible at wide apertures. Nothing dramatic but the effect is there nonetheless. The difference I would say is similar to that of a 500$ lens vs a 2000$ lens. Subtle but visible.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  17. #17
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,871
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Finally the 36MP FF sensors seem to arrive! Great news!

  18. #18
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hah . . maybe you're right Ben, but wouldn't it be a release not to have to do all that up-ressing?
    Thing is that one of the reasons the D700/D3 combo were so incredibly successful was that they didn't cram so many megapixels in. The people using them are PJ's and wedding shooters who really don't want 36 megapixels but do want incredible high iso and small files which are still good enough to do a nice big print. Once you get over the 20 megapixel barrier you're pretty much heading into the commercial and fine art realm ONLY for needing those kind of file sizes. Many people respect the demarcation between Nikon's D700/D3 line and the D3X. Yes the megapixels are going to go up and personally I think 16 megapixels would suit the D700 better as it's got a rather strong AA filter but 36 would be a shame IMO.

    No doubt lots of enthusiasts would disagree but the pro's who use and love the D700/D3 pretty much use them for one purpose rather than the 5DII crowd who will shoot street with it one day and fine art the next day and travel the day after that. I'd prefer the chip to stay with a smaller megapixel upgrade than competing with the canon megapixel hysteria but get even better at what they already do so well, DR and high iso, big buffers, small files and not having to compromise on pro features and even the top pro processing of the signal from that chip to pay for a more expensive chip (ala canon 5DII again).

    Here's to hoping, having to deal with 1200 36 megapixel files at the end of a wedding is far from my ideal and the various versions of downsized raw files so far have all been IQ compromised.

    There should be a 36 megapixel sensor, but not in the D800.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    No doubt lots of enthusiasts would disagree but the pro's who use and love the D700/D3 pretty much use them for one purpose rather than the 5DII crowd who will shoot street with it one day and fine art the next day and travel the day after that. I'd prefer the chip to stay with a smaller megapixel upgrade than competing with the canon megapixel hysteria but get even better at what they already do so well, DR and high iso, big buffers, small files and not having to compromise on pro features and even the top pro processing of the signal from that chip to pay for a more expensive chip (ala canon 5DII again).

    Here's to hoping, having to deal with 1200 36 megapixel files at the end of a wedding is far from my ideal and the various versions of downsized raw files so far have all been IQ compromised.

    There should be a 36 megapixel sensor, but not in the D800.
    Hi Ben

    Whilst I completely understand the argument with respect to PJs, where you just aren't going to need the extra resolution I just don't agree about weddings. You never know when you've going to get that shot which needs to be BIG, and with the fact that cropping can be a necessity, the D700 simply doesn't provide the real-estate.

    I never found processing the 24mp files from the A900 a problem after weddings. Give me a choice between an A900 and a D700 for a wedding (and I've used both on several occasions) and I'd choose the A900 every time.

    Mind you, it seems to me that what would be really good would be a pixel binning option - preferably across two cards, so one card would hold your nice 36mp file, and the other a 12mp file. Would that suit you?

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    431
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Who needs 36MP? I would be happier with a 16MP Full Frame or a NEX7 with the 16MP NEX5N sensor. I wish the manufacturers' would spend their efforts on improving high ISO performance.

  21. #21
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,871
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Interesting to see all the NAY sayers .....

    Why not more MP if high ISO and DR is same or better compared to today's 12MP incarnations? I would aways choose a higher MP count if price is attractive and IQ is good.

    I do agree though with Jono, that pixel binnig (like Phase does) could be a good solution to keep file size and resolution down and allow cleaner high ISO.

    But stop all these discussions about why and wieso and warum more MP! You will not be able to stop evolution and/ or change where it goes to. Just a waste of time to try IMHO!

  22. #22
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Ben

    Whilst I completely understand the argument with respect to PJs, where you just aren't going to need the extra resolution I just don't agree about weddings. You never know when you've going to get that shot which needs to be BIG, and with the fact that cropping can be a necessity, the D700 simply doesn't provide the real-estate.

    I never found processing the 24mp files from the A900 a problem after weddings. Give me a choice between an A900 and a D700 for a wedding (and I've used both on several occasions) and I'd choose the A900 every time.

    Mind you, it seems to me that what would be really good would be a pixel binning option - preferably across two cards, so one card would hold your nice 36mp file, and the other a 12mp file. Would that suit you?

    all the best
    Disagree Jono, made too many great large prints and large storybook albums (which are viewed up close) from my 5Dc to agree with that one even post crop. Weddings are not particularly resolution intensive. I had a 1Ds3 for a while for wedding work and have never regretted going back to the 5D's.

    I'll also add that the megapixel count of the 1Ds/1DsII/5Dc/D700/D3 was and is enough for wedding work for the greater part of the past decade and still today for all that they didn't even hit 18 megapixels nevermind double that. Every single wedding photographer I know personally uses a D700 or D3 apart from my partner who has a 5D and 1D3 (we can't afford to switch to Nikon). I recently printed a canvas from that 1D3 for a wedding show we did at 30X20" and it was breathtaking. Not going to even start talking about the film we used to shoot wedding with.

    24 megapixels is one thing (and the files from my 1Ds3 were a royal pain to batch because of the size) but 36 megapixels is a whole new ballgame. To be honest I really, really wouldn't ever want to go there unless I had a specific need.

    I stitch regularly as you may know to between 40-70 megapixels, am setting up a studio with a Leaf 40 megapixel back and used to own a 1DsIII. I have an assistant with a 5DII. I really don't believe that weddings for the vast majority of the time require more than about 16 megapixels.

    But that's just my personal opinion. If you have a brand whose use of extra IQ is making you more money then all power to you. Us wedding shooters have to do whatever we can these days to seperate us from the crowds unfortunately.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  23. #23
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Interesting to see all the NAY sayers .....

    Why not more MP if high ISO and DR is same or better compared to today's 12MP incarnations? I would aways choose a higher MP count if price is attractive and IQ is good.
    And my mother in law will always buy a 2 for 1 offer even if she didn't even need one nevermind both .

    If you have defined a specific need and have something that fills that need then to buy more is a luxury but not a necessity.

    Though I could get stoned for saying that on this forum?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    271
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    All 24-36MP (and any high MP) cameras mean is, sometime soon, our printers and video displays are going to be operating at much higher resolutions than they are currently. When that happens, we'll all NEED cameras with this many MP's....
    SONY A900
    Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
    My Site|Facebook Fanpage|

  25. #25
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    But that's just my personal opinion. If you have a brand whose use of extra IQ is making you more money then all power to you. Us wedding shooters have to do whatever we can these days to seperate us from the crowds unfortunately.
    Well - here we have to agree (each to his own)

    Just this guy you know

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Well I'm in trouble enough on this forum for having owned the same system, the same two cameras and pretty much the same lenses (with the exception of one) for the past 6 years. I'm the misfit at the back of a classroom where Guy is the teachers pet...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there
    I've just seen this on Alpha Rumours
    Sony Alpha Rumors

    Seems like a 36mp full frame sensor (same to be used on the Nikon 800). With an SLT screen and a lower price.

    Interesting at the very least.

    all the best
    Come to Papa

    -Marc

  28. #28
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Come to Papa

    -Marc

    Just this guy you know

  29. #29
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Well I'm in trouble enough on this forum for having owned the same system, the same two cameras and pretty much the same lenses (with the exception of one) for the past 6 years. I'm the misfit at the back of a classroom where Guy is the teachers pet...
    Well Ben - I'm also in trouble - I have one of the most accomplished GAS syndromes . . . but I've managed to avoid falling into the MF trap all this time.

    Just this guy you know

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Czech Republic and Austria
    Posts
    305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Interesting to see all the NAY sayers .....

    But stop all these discussions about why and wieso and warum more MP! You will not be able to stop evolution and/ or change where it goes to. Just a waste of time to try IMHO!
    This is not an irrelevant discussion - the point is not warum more MP - I think you are missing the point a bit.... I am ok with more MP but I want to be sure that the entire imaging chain corresponds to the 36MP resolution of the chip - i.e. lenses with appropriate resolution and contrast, intelligent and accurate AF system, image stabilization etc. My concern is that these cameras (and lenses) have to be built to a price point (with corresponding tolerances, machine assembly etc.), whereas the hi-res sensors really require the tightest tolerances, super-precise focusing and therefore very careful QC in lens assembly etc. Leica can do this now but at a very high price, with a hand assembled product. Can Sony/Nikon/Canon do this with mass produced consumer cameras and lenses? I hope so but I want to be convinced.

    And I am not even talking about the necessity of impeccable technique, use of high shutter speeds or tripod etc.

    I've learned my lessons with a 33MP digital back on MF camera bodies, and with an M9. And the main lesson is that shooting with a high resolution imaging system is not trivial. It is often a different cup of tea than shooting with a 12-20MP camera.

    Last point - I don't care about high ISO performance but I want beautiful colors out of the camera and DNG raw files that are easy to edit and can be heavily processed without falling apart. I think Sony should be able to deliver this and this will be key for me.

    The product I am waiting for is the NEX9, with a 36MP full frame sensor :-) (I'd take one with 24MP too, but if they offer 36MP I won't be disappointed, as long as my concerns about lenses and build tolerances/focus accuracy are proven to be unfounded.

  31. #31
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Thing is that one of the reasons the D700/D3 combo were so incredibly successful was that they didn't cram so many megapixels in. The people using them are PJ's and wedding shooters who really don't want 36 megapixels but do want incredible high iso and small files which are still good enough to do a nice big print. Once you get over the 20 megapixel barrier you're pretty much heading into the commercial and fine art realm ONLY for needing those kind of file sizes. Many people respect the demarcation between Nikon's D700/D3 line and the D3X. Yes the megapixels are going to go up and personally I think 16 megapixels would suit the D700 better as it's got a rather strong AA filter but 36 would be a shame IMO.

    No doubt lots of enthusiasts would disagree but the pro's who use and love the D700/D3 pretty much use them for one purpose rather than the 5DII crowd who will shoot street with it one day and fine art the next day and travel the day after that. I'd prefer the chip to stay with a smaller megapixel upgrade than competing with the canon megapixel hysteria but get even better at what they already do so well, DR and high iso, big buffers, small files and not having to compromise on pro features and even the top pro processing of the signal from that chip to pay for a more expensive chip (ala canon 5DII again).

    Here's to hoping, having to deal with 1200 36 megapixel files at the end of a wedding is far from my ideal and the various versions of downsized raw files so far have all been IQ compromised.

    There should be a 36 megapixel sensor, but not in the D800.
    The problem here is the assumption that more megapixels leads to more noise, given the same sensor technology, when output to the same size. The advantage in lowlight of the D700/D3/D3s isn't the number of pixels per se, but, rather, the design of the sensor and AD converters themselves. If Nikon built a 36mp version of the D3s sensor, then it'll likely be as good as the D3s in lowlight when outputted to the same size. If Nikon chooses a Sony EXMOR design, then it'll likely have better low ISO DR, but it won't perform quite as well at high ISO.

    It sounds like what you're asking for is a specific sensor design, not a certain number of megapixels.

  32. #32
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by baudolino View Post
    And I am not even talking about the necessity of impeccable technique, use of high shutter speeds or tripod etc.

    I've learned my lessons with a 33MP digital back on MF camera bodies, and with an M9. And the main lesson is that shooting with a high resolution imaging system is not trivial. It is often a different cup of tea than shooting with a 12-20MP camera.
    HI There - Whilst I understand, and I quite agree that to get the very best out of these chips then you need to have the best glass and the best technique.

    However - stick the humble Sony SZ 16-80 on the 24mp chip of the A77 . . . and you aren't getting the best out of the chip - but the results are still better than they were on the A55 - the point being that the extra sampling has it's own benefits - actually, I've been rather surprised with this lens.

    Sometimes the results from the combination of a high resolution sensor and a rather mediocre lens can be more than the sum of their parts.

    Like you, I'm not a high ISO freak (it's nice of course) But I'm looking forward to a FF 36mp A99 - I've started to like the EVF of the A77, and it's just as much a 'real camera' as the A900 - it gives me high hopes for the A99 - I'm sure it'll be fab with the 24 f2, the 85 f1.4 and the 135 f1.8 - but I expect it'll be just fine with the 70-300 G lens as well.

    Just this guy you know

  33. #33
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Park City, UT
    Posts
    1,071
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    34

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Yikes a 36mp FF sensor?? OMG, Besides the 85mm and 135mm Sony Zeiss lenses, I'm not sure if any of the the other Sony lenses will do the camera any justice also to add precise focus and either very high shutter speed or a tripod.
    I still struggle with my MF 33MP Leaf Back in regards to getting a sharp image, and thats using MLU, Tripod and release, yet when I get one, it's for sure with the extra effort .

    Jono, so far it sounds like you are pleased with the A77, in comparison to your A900 at base ISO, I am thinking about getting one myself, since I am not a WA shooter or a high ISO shooter, the A77 maybe just the ticket.

    Steven
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  34. #34
    Senior Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    I have no problems handholding my a850 and lenses like the ZA 24-70 at speeds where the *annoying* shake warning is on permanently in the viewfinder. It's not hard to hand hold a 50 at f/8 1/30s and get technically perfectly sharp images. I'm sure 36MP will be just fine as well.

  35. #35
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Park City, UT
    Posts
    1,071
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    34

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Jan I hope you are right... 36mp is a whole new world
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  36. #36
    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    526
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    I have no problems handholding my a850 and lenses like the ZA 24-70 at speeds where the *annoying* shake warning is on permanently in the viewfinder. It's not hard to hand hold a 50 at f/8 1/30s and get technically perfectly sharp images. I'm sure 36MP will be just fine as well.
    Jan,

    I defy you to prove that you can hand hold a 50mm at 1/30 and have it equal to a comparable shot taken at 1/500, or better yet on a tripod with mirror up, at an 'ideal' shutter speed.

    I do agree that it is possible to get sharp images, but not sharp images that match the technical perfection of the ideally arranged camera. Whether the difference is relevant for your or most people's uses is another issue, but there will be observable differences.

    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

  37. #37
    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    526
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Yikes a 36mp FF sensor?? OMG, Besides the 85mm and 135mm Sony Zeiss lenses, I'm not sure if any of the the other Sony lenses will do the camera any justice also to add precise focus and either very high shutter speed or a tripod.
    ...And this is part of the reason that I do not believe that an AA filter is needed on a camera with that density of sensor...

    Boy would it be nice to get rid of that thing... let the lenses perform at their limits and fail if they aren't up to the resolution of the sensor. It doesn't matter, because it will still be sharper that the same lens on a 24MP sensor that has AA built in.

    The M9 has convinced me of the merit of this approach, even though it does occasionally suffer from moire with that pixel density. I bet the next M camera will be in the 25-28MP range, and at that point will likely be beginning to out resolve some of the Leica lenses as well.

    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

  38. #38
    Senior Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    I'm as picky as they come.

  39. #39
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Park City, UT
    Posts
    1,071
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    34

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Michael,
    Being an ex M9 owner and now regretting ever selling it, I agree with everything you have to say. No AA filter would be a great thing and then we can really see how these high megapixel cameras really perform and if the lens can really do the job.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  40. #40
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Yikes a 36mp FF sensor?? OMG, Besides the 85mm and 135mm Sony Zeiss lenses, I'm not sure if any of the the other Sony lenses will do the camera any justice also to add precise focus and either very high shutter speed or a tripod.
    I still struggle with my MF 33MP Leaf Back in regards to getting a sharp image, and thats using MLU, Tripod and release, yet when I get one, it's for sure with the extra effort .

    Jono, so far it sounds like you are pleased with the A77, in comparison to your A900 at base ISO, I am thinking about getting one myself, since I am not a WA shooter or a high ISO shooter, the A77 maybe just the ticket.

    Steven
    I think it is all relative. An increase in meg count on its own isn't quite the "linear leap" that many people seem to think it is ... which is the mis-informed fuel that keeps the meg race engines accelerating forward. MFD has been at this "man up" game longer than 35mm DSLRs have, and it is there that you can see just how big of a leap is really needed to realize any sort of eye popping difference based solely on meg count ... 16 to 22 to 33 to 39/40 to 50 to 60FF to now 80FF .... (and even 200 meg for some applications.)

    I seriously doubt that there will be that big of a difference in sheer resolution between the current 24 meg A900 and a 36 meg A99. How that additional data is handled is another story ... and frankly, is the core question yet to be answered.

    What plays into the equation are advancements in both proprietary processing engines and post software. Those sort of differences can be illustrated by looking at the Nikon D3X and Sony A900 which use the same base sensor/meg count. Beyond those base fundamental similarities, they are very different imaging devices delivering visibly different results.

    Chief amongst the software opportunities are profile driven lens corrections ... primarily pioneered by MFD to keep legacy lenses abreast of the increased resolution that magnifies any flaws when under the watchful eye of the pixel peepers. While every one of my Hasselblad lenses and Leica S optics have full lens corrections in LR ... none of the Sony ZA optics do ... yet. Lord knows that the 24-70 could benefit from a LR lens profile, and most certainly the ZA85's CA could as well. Frankly, I think THAT is more important than whether you can hand-hold a 35mm DSLR camera with 36 meg verses 24 meg.

    I also asked the question regarding the A77 as to whether they included the ability to correct each lens' focusing point like the A900 has ... and I'll ask the same question regarding the A99. As the meg count increase, the accuracy of the AF become more critical, and the ability to zero in every lens to make up for manufacturing anomalies increases in importance. My first ZA24/2 was so off, that I had to use near maximum corrections to get it zeroed in, so I returned it for a second one that only needed a very little tweak.

    Lastly, it would be interesting to know if Sony has worked on improving the anti-shake technology for these cameras.

    -Marc

  41. #41
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Park City, UT
    Posts
    1,071
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    34

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    as usual Marc is right on the money +1
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  42. #42
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    +2 for that!

    Just this guy you know

  43. #43
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,871
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Yikes a 36mp FF sensor?? OMG, Besides the 85mm and 135mm Sony Zeiss lenses, I'm not sure if any of the the other Sony lenses will do the camera any justice also to add precise focus and either very high shutter speed or a tripod.
    I still struggle with my MF 33MP Leaf Back in regards to getting a sharp image, and thats using MLU, Tripod and release, yet when I get one, it's for sure with the extra effort .

    Jono, so far it sounds like you are pleased with the A77, in comparison to your A900 at base ISO, I am thinking about getting one myself, since I am not a WA shooter or a high ISO shooter, the A77 maybe just the ticket.

    Steven
    Steven,

    I almost never struggle with my H3D39 when it is set to the right mirror pre release. And I think you had the same camera, so did you have problems?

    BTW, do you still shoot the Pentax 645D or completely switch to another MFDB?

    Peter

  44. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    44
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    One thing that should help the anti-shake of the A77 and A99 is the lack of a moving mirror. If it will or not, who knows (other than some Sony engineers), but I have read reports of people being able to hold the A55 at slower speeds than previous SLRs with moving mirrors.

    I haven't even seen an A77, but the specs list AF micro adjust like the A900.

  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    8

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I seriously doubt that there will be that big of a difference in sheer resolution between the current 24 meg A900 and a 36 meg A99. How that additional data is handled is another story ... and frankly, is the core question yet to be answered.
    I'm kind of in a wait and see pattern with gear right now. If they use the 36 mp as a reason to skip the AA filter, this could be quite a camera. If the A99 is the A77 with more pixels I may just pickup an A77 or another A900 as a backup. That said, I have been watching the rumors on the Nikon D800, and if it turns out to be a Sony A900 with 36 MP, I could be very interested.

    My issue with the A900 that I have been very vocal about (but no one seems to agree with me) is that, while it is a great camera, it doesn't seem to do as much with its 24 MP as I would expect. 36 MP is getting to the point where files are starting to be BIG. It would have to be a big leap over the A900 for me to make the jump. The A900 is already at the point that I can tell which tripod I shot an image on based on sharpness.

    I suppose what I am saying is that I am quite intrigued, but I'm not putting a deposit on one.

  46. #46
    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    526
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    15

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Green View Post
    ...while it is a great camera, it doesn't seem to do as much with its 24 MP as I would expect.

    The A900 is already at the point that I can tell which tripod I shot an image on based on sharpness...
    Don't these two comments seem to contradict each other?

    I do agree that the a900 is a little less than it could be... If they used a very light AA filter, it would have produced a sharper image and better contrast overall. The 18MP M9 simply smokes it for pixel-level sharpness, using comparable lenses, etc. That wouldn't happen but for the AA filter, all things created equal.

    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

  47. #47
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Park City, UT
    Posts
    1,071
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    34

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    I think having an AA filter would be a deal breaker for me, yet I am sure sony will have one in place.
    I can't imagine much of an increase in over all quality of a 36mp FF body with a AA filter over the current 24mp FF cameras with an AA filter. I don't care what lens you have attached.
    As Michael pointed out an M9 having owned own, does simply smoke all the current 24mp FF cameras out there in terms of pixel level sharpness. To date I have yet to see a more sharp image coming off any dslr as sharp as an M9. Heck even all my expensive digital MF stuff sometimes can't match the M9...

    I think my dream DSLR would be Lecia M9 with sony's new EVF with there peak focusing. I can dream

    Oh well we wills see.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  48. #48
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    All this talk about the AA filter, while there is actually a piece of plastic, called translucent mirror, in the optical path. That would be more detrimental to the IQ than the AA filter. Actually the mirror may be playing the role of an AA filter, partially at least.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    8

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    Don't these two comments seem to contradict each other?
    No. You clearly know what I am saying as you readily admit the M9 does more with it's 18 than the Sony does with 24. As for the tripod, 24 MP is enough to show errors in technique -- whether focus or stability -- pretty clearly. Of course stability becomes moot at higher shutter speeds.

    All this talk about the AA filter, while there is actually a piece of plastic, called translucent mirror, in the optical path. That would be more detrimental to the IQ than the AA filter. Actually the mirror may be playing the role of an AA filter, partially at least.
    Excellent question and I don't know enough about optics to answer intelligently.

  50. #50
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: 36mp Full Frame A99 SLT rumour

    There is a very detailed and informative article in the most recent issue of LFI titled "Lens Verses Sensor" which explains the role each plays in resolution/sharpness, and how they work in concert with one another.

    It also explains the effect of any interruptions in the optical path ... like what an AA filter actually does at the pixel level, which I didn't quite understand until reading this.

    Of interest was the fact that Canon already has a 120 meg sensor that's slightly larger than the M8's sporting a pixel pitch of 2.2 nm (which is larger than those of a current P&S) ... and, get this, a 36 X 24 sensor resolving 200 meg is currently possible and would effectively eliminate the issue of morie' ... something not possible even if 35mm sensors went to 40 meg. This may answer the question as to whether Sony will eliminate the AA altogether even at 36 meg ... since Sony sells cameras to the average consumer, I doubt the A99 will not have an AA. BTW, does the A77 have one? That would also be a strong indicator.

    Personally, I wish Sony would offer a camera like the A99 in an "advanced" version sans the AA and I'd be willing to take my chances with morie' ... something I already do with the M9 ... but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

    Unfortunately, with a gain to the degree of 200 meg comes a massive loss of dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratio to an unusable level, which is explained in detail. This somewhat clarifies the balancing act between increased meg count and higher ISO performance ... or at least tempers expectations of a super cam of 36 meg with the high ISO performance of a camera with 1/3 or even 1/2 the meg count.

    -Marc

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •