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Fun with NEX-7

philber

Member
Another great one, Ron! Are you using a Hawk's helicoid adapter to get closer, or is that a crop? BTW, I am using it, and it give me gret results.
 

Ron Pfister

Member
Another great one, Ron! Are you using a Hawk's helicoid adapter to get closer, or is that a crop? BTW, I am using it, and it give me gret results.
The APO-TELYT results in approx. 200mm focal length in full-frame terms. The above shot is actually un-cropped. I do have the Hawk's helicoid adapter as well, but I don't use it very often. This is for two reasons:

1.) It is not very mechanically rigid, particularly when extended. This is not ideal, particularly when using longer lenses and/or slow shutter speeds (most of my images are taken with the camera on a tripod).

2.) Mine doesn't allow focussing to infinity on most of my lenses, which means it is not my default adapter for M-lenses (I use a Voigtländer VM-adapter for this purpose).

That said, I have used it a bit for macro-like work and for portraits, but because it's not always on the camera, it doesn't get used much. I should really make an effort to use it more often...

BTW: for close-focus work, particularly with longer/heavier lenses, I use the Kenko extension tubes for E-mount. They are much more rigid than the Hawk's adapter, and they carry the added benefit of providing all electrical connection to E-mount lenses. Despite their mechanical robustness, they are actually surprisingly light-weight.

Best,

Ron
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Good read, Ron! And nice work.

Yesterday I went out with three cameras on the same subject. I have to regret to say it but the NEX-7 files, although they are very flexibel in PP, are in the third place. (compared to Ricoh GXR and DP2m)
But I love the camera in use and it is a great adapter for all kinds of Alt lenses.
(And the files are good enough)

Michiel

Corus Steel plant.

 

Ron Pfister

Member
Good read, Ron! And nice work.
Many thanks! I like many of your images. I have a soft spot for ships, boats (the older the better) and the sea. Unfortunately, we don't have much of that around here... ;)

Yesterday I went out with three cameras on the same subject. I have to regret to say it but the NEX-7 files, although they are very flexibel in PP, are in the third place. (compared to Ricoh GXR and DP2m)
But I love the camera in use and it is a great adapter for all kinds of Alt lenses.
(And the files are good enough)
Interesting! I agree, NEX RAWs are wonderfully malleable in post - much more so than those of the Canon 5DII.

Besides Sony NEX, the only alternative use for M-mount lenses I've seriously tried is MFT (with a Panasonic GX-1 - this was actually before I started using the NEX-7). While the results were definitely OK, they were nowhere near the image quality I get with the NEX-7. Considering the differences in resolution and sensor size, this is no surprise, I guess.

Are you using the Mount A12 module on the GXR? I've always found the concept of the GXR very interesting, but have never had the chance to try one...

I have just recently started using an NEX-6, mainly because I was looking for a sensor that has better characteristics for use with M-mount WA lenses. I am planning to use it as a complement to the NEX-7, not as a replacement. I haven't worked much with it yet, but there's definitely a big difference with regard to image quality in the corners when using WA lenses compared to the NEX-7. The color shifts are almost gone, and the loss in detail and sharpness is much less pronounced.

I was also considering the Fuji XE-1, but after processing some sample RAWs in Lightroom, I decided against it. LR/ACR definitely don't process these files optimally at this point, and out-of-camera JPEGs provide much more detail than RAWs processed in LR. Quite a shame, really.

I'm thinking of renting a Leica M once it becomes available. I'm very curious how it will compare to the NEX-7 and how my M-mount lenses draw in the peripheral regions on a FF sensor. But the results would have to be nothing short of amazing to justify the price of the camera...

Since I do a fair bit of large-format printing, I very much like the high-res files of the NEX-7. I would only replace it with a camera that features a sensor with 20MP or more (and featuring noticeably higher IQ, of course). I would really like to see a full-frame NEX, but I have my doubt's that will ever happen. IMO, Zeiss should work with SONY on a digital IKON with the same sensor used in the RX-1. That would be exciting! :D
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Are you using the Mount A12 module on the GXR? I've always found the concept of the GXR very interesting, but have never had the chance to try one...
The body, which is very nice and sturdy, is so cheap but the M mount module is not so, around €500,-
But no corner problems, no loss on sharpness. It has a Sony sensor as well but no AA filter. The files are rather sharp by themselves. For example; The NEX-7 files sharpness can be turned up to around 90 in ACR and the ones from the Ricoh should never go above 55 in my opinion.

I'm thinking of renting a Leica M once it becomes available. I'm very curious how it will compare to the NEX-7 and how my M-mount lenses draw in the peripheral regions on a FF sensor. But the results would have to be nothing short of amazing to justify the price of the camera...
Same here.....

Since I do a fair bit of large-format printing, I very much like the high-res files of the NEX-7. I would only replace it with a camera that features a sensor with 20MP or more (and featuring noticeably higher IQ, of course). I would really like to see a full-frame NEX, but I have my doubt's that will ever happen. IMO, Zeiss should work with SONY on a digital IKON with the same sensor used in the RX-1. That would be exciting! :D
I don't know how big you print but I think 60 x 80 cm prints will still be very exeptable from the Ricoh. BTW the Sigma DP2M is very good for B&W as well.
You would be surprised/shocked by the amount of sharpness.....

Yes, or a Foveon mirrorles FF camera from Sony, Sigma or Ricoh.....I don't really care..
 

Ron Pfister

Member
Here's an image made with the Biogon 35 without flat field correction applied. I quite like the purple hue in the corners in this case...

 

philber

Member
Nice picture, Ron! Like you, sometimes I correct 35mm pictures and sometimes I don't. But that still doesn't tell me what magic you perform on your ZM 21, which turns me green with envy. Fell free to replay in PM if you want.
 

Ron Pfister

Member
I should add, though, that one of the reasons (the main reason, actually) for my recent purchase of the NEX-6 was the disappointing corner performance of the Biogon 21 and the Heliar 15 on the NEX-7. Corner performance is much better with these lenses on tne NEX-6 compared to the NEX-7.
 
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Ron Pfister

Member
@philber: maybe I should ask what you consider 'magical' about the image. Are you unhappy with the performance of your ZM 21? Perhaps you could share a sample image to illustrate?

Generally speaking, the ZM 21 is a very good lens (it should be, considering its price), being very sharp corner-to-corner (on full-frame) from f/5.6 on, demonstrating very low distortion and quite good flare resistance (the latter thanks to high-quality coatings). Sean Reid has a good review on his site (subscription required).

Edit: I should clarify that I'm speaking of the 21mm f/2.8, not the f/4.5 C Biogon. Which one do you have?
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Great shot, Michiel! I was wondering: what adapter do you use with your C/Y lenses?
Thanks Ron!

I have actually tree adapters. A cheap Pixco wich I bought for the connected tripod mount for my Zeiss Vario Sonnar lenses which have no tripod mount collar.
The tripod connection started wobbling in no time so I took it off but then it wouldn't hold my 85 Planar which has a slightly worn-ou mount.

After that I started to use a C/Y to Leica on top of a Leica to NEX adapter that worked surprisingly well. Looks like Leica adapters are quiet precise. No name.

Now I use a Tilt C/Y to NEX adapter which is good. I bought it because I did some nice things with tilting with OM lenses on M4/3. But now I am mainly using it as a regular adapter. It is well made. Look for Tilt C/Y to NEX on Ebay. It is a no name adapter. There are two types. I have the all black one.

Michiel
 

Ron Pfister

Member
Many thanks for the info, Michiel! To me, the Zeiss C/Y 85/1.4 and the 180/2.8 look most interesting, considering the lenses I already have. Good to know what adapters work well!

Here another image made with the APO-TELYT-M. This is the kind of work I usually use my DSLR-rig for, but I wanted to see how the NEX+APO-TELYT combo would work in such a setting...

 

Ron Pfister

Member
One of the reasons I got into landscape photography is panoramas. Below an example from the Swiss Alps. Sorry that it's a bit small. The original is more than 15'000 pixels wide. I find that the 35mm C Biogon is very suitable for this kind of work.



And here a 100% crop:

 

philber

Member
Actually I don't own a ZM 21, Ron, I tried the excellent ZM 25 and was disappointed with corner performance even on NEX 5N, and I knew it would be worse on the 7. So I switched to Leica for the great Elmar 24mm f:3.8 instead, which can be corrected easily in CornerFix. Had I known that the ZM 21 could be corrected, I might have chosen otherwise. And thanks for the info!
 

Ron Pfister

Member
The vignetting and the color shift can be corrected no matter what lens it is, as I'm sure you know. Both CornerFix and the Adobe DNG Flat Field Plug-in do a good job at this. The loss of detail and sharpness is another matter. It can be alleviated to some extend by local sharpening, but that's about all that can be done (as far as I know).

You may notice that the 'Window to the Sea' doesn't have subject matter with fine details in the corners, so the corner artifacts don't show. I wouldn't say that the Biogon 21 doesn't suffer from them when used with the NEX-7 - far from it. But in many cases, it simply isn't much of a problem, as long as the color shift is corrected.

My first M-mount lens was the Heliar 15mm, and I decided to go further down this route (i.e. with other WA-lenses of quasi-symmetrical design), betting on the possibility that at some point in the not-so-distant future, a camera body will be available that handles these lenses well. Time will tell if my bet turns out to be a winner. In the meantime, I decided to go for the NEX-7. My opinion is that lenses are the lasting investment, not the sensors behind it. I hope I invested well... ;)

Philber, when you say that you 'switched to Leica', are you speaking only of lenses, or camera bodies as well?
 

Taylor Sherman

New member
Hi Ron! Great pictures! The panorama looks great. Nice to see the ZM35C getting some use on the Nex-7, I think people have been scared of that combo. Though probably the "worst" would be the ZM21C (or the Contax G 21).

The recent Leica lens designs do lead to, IME, generally better corner detail than the ZM Biogons do with the Nex-7. But you do have to pay for it.

I've found that generally, I get better results with the 21 Super-Elmar using Cornerfix. For the 28 Elmarit (latest), I mostly use DNG Flat Field, but sometimes I get better results using Cornerfix. Though, I also have been trying to get away with just a single reference picture (f/2.8) with that lens.
 

philber

Member
My analysis is fairly close to yours Ron. The M-mount is now pretty much an open platform, with 6 manufacturers providing camera bodies compatible with it. That generates faster progress than the Canikon lines, where high-end models get replaced only every 3 years +.
So, once I decided to go M-mount, considering my lack of lust for an M9, the NEX line was an obvious port of call.
On my 5, then my F3, then my 5N, I loved the results with ZM lenses. Then I tried the Elmar 24, and was hooked. I bought it, and a Summilux 50, and rarely use my ZM 18 and 35 f:2.0. That is partly due to my weakness in PP, because the Leica lenses require less of it than the ZMs IMHO, and I am trying to correct that so that I can use both lens brands equally to my satisfaction.
What next? I will obviously try a Leica M, because the inclusion of LiveView makes a big difference to me. Otherwise, I shall wait for the platform to get better, whether it is at the hands of Sony, Ricoh or anybody else...
 

Ron Pfister

Member
Thanks for your feedback, Taylor and philber! One lens I've been curious about is the Leica 16-18-21mm WATE. Have any of you tried this on NEX? If so, what are your findings? I think this could be an excellent choice when you can only bring one lens.
 
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