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Good Bye OVF!

PeterA

Well-known member
Ah Peter . . . if you want to argue the benefits of an SLR viewfinder over an EVF I can argue back . . . but if you're arguing about a rangefinder, then I don't have a word to say! Seeing around the image is so important, and provides so much more information.

Still, although the NEX7 is MY current toy - I think it's a bit patronising to refer to it as a toy - it's certainly capable of producing great images.

but with respect to the original post . . . I really can see the mirror SLR being replace by the EVF over the next few years . . . but not the optical rangefinder.

One of the things which really impresses me about the Fuji X1-pro (another toy) is that they've realised the truth of the OVF and provided two different settings with proper framelines. I've always felt it would be nice if Leica produced a three setting RF window - but I suspect it's too difficult from a technical point of view.
I have no inclination to disrespect anyone's 'choice' of camera Jono - I will leave it there regarding the implications of my definition of attitude towards cameras by the collective.

Regarding SLR viewfinders - I respectfully suggest that you look through a Mamiya RZ or an Hy6 or Hasselblad or an S2 viewfinder before suggesting that the EVF from Sony or anyone else is better!;)

I cant speak about a Nex7 - as I have only bought a Nex5N and Sony77 ( or is it a 75?) I cant remember ...

both these viewfinders are interesting and revolutionary - but both can't compare to My Nikon D3 viewfinder or my R9 viewfinder..

I think we agree on the superiority of the rangefinder for compositonal purposes - and the Xpan is top of the pops for me there.

The only caveat - again though I say - that focus is not a high priority for me relative to framing. If we are talking focus ease - I think that these Sony cameras are as good as anything from rangefinder or 35mm land in auto mode - and certainly better than anything in automode from MF land.

I am spoilt for choice I guess - but these days I prefer less 'stuff' and am finding that i use my Alpa or artec for most shooting and auto nothing.

* Yes IF EVF was as large as I get from MF viewfinders - I think it would kill off mirror systems- bring it on!

Pete
 

Tim

Active member
Hi Jono ( since you asked) :)

I define a toy camera as any camera bought by those so inclined and tossed in a few months when internet forum chatter has moved on to the next brand new priced cheap enough to buy and talk about for a few months toy - before selling and moving on to the next priced cheap enough to buy before selling in a few months when the next comes along ...etc etc etc

Pete
Hmm, an interesting definition, I'll weigh in..
for me, in no particular order and by no means complete -

Toys - Canon EOS1, Leica MP, Leica CM, Nikon D80, Nikon N8080, Konica Hexar RF, etc, etc, etc
Not Toys - Ricoh GRD III, Contax T3, Olympus OM4, Olympus C5050, Canon EOS50, etc, etc, etc

I suspect the lists will vary a lot.

On the original posters topic though. One thing I have noticed is that humans tend to keep every bit of their technology, even if only in a small way. There are still people painting, even though there are pencils. People still draw with pencils even though there are cameras. Some use vinyl even though there are CDs and some don't have CDs but only use a mp3 and so on. Aficionados I think they are called.
So even if EVFs take over someone will make a flappy mirror camera for a long while. I hear they still make Rangefinders. They are from the 1930's right?
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Tim, The difference could be what one actually does with a camera. :D
 
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Tim

Active member
Tim, The difference could be what one actually does with a camera. :D
YES, very true. For me though, with one example, the Leica MP just did not work. Possibly, the camera that most meshed with me has been the Contax T3. I got many "keepers" from that. It can depend on factors at the time. Some cameras I never had the time to put into working with them. So many variables.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Was that an a la carte BP MP, Tim?

I have seen pictures posted by some toy owners!

Gorgeous camera! :p
 

Paratom

Well-known member
One could argue that if EVF were so much better than OVF-why dont we put computerdisplay-glasses in front of our face in see the world through those;)

My opinion: an optical viewinder-if it is good- will be the best posibility to see the reality how it is-without being darkended or brightened up, without any change in color, and without any (if we forget the speed of light) delay.
You see the real thing.
So one could say with the EVF you see what you get later - but while being very good the EVF-image is still far away from what you get in the image (resolution alone but also color and tonality).
There is one big reason for me for EVF: Size, as long as we talk about smaller cameras.
And mabye the ability to use (and focus) legancy lenses is also a strong argument for a mirrorless/EVF camera.
And maybe for video integration.
For those reasons the EVF makes total sense in the Nex7 IMO.
But if it is only about the seeing experience I prefer an OVF everyday as long as its ff-size or bigger.

Yeah, totally. I find it interesting that some find it impossible to frame, focus and shoot with a little computer screen on the camera, yet they are able to tweak and process pictures for hours on their computer screens at home. :)

Don't get me wrong, I hate poor EVFs as much as the next guy, and there are things that I like about OVFs, but the new Sony EVF may be the tipping point.
 
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Vivek

Guest
One could argue that if EVF were so much better than OVF-why dont we put computerdisplay-glasses in front of our face in see the world through those;)

A lot of us do not put ANYTHING at all in front of our eyes to see the world.;)
 

dhsimmonds

New member
Tim, The difference could be what one actually does with a camera. :D
+1

I imagine that we all buy cameras to make images ( I sometimes wonder!) and our individual preferences should (but often will not) determine our choice of tool to achieve the picture we seek.

Sometimes internet hype overtakes reality and at the moment as good as modern EVF's are for most general photographic purposes, they are still not good enough to replace OVF's for certain types of photography.

I have used my Sony A77 for several months now and whilst the EVF is great for most of my photography, when it comes to action shots, it isn't a patch on either my A900 or A700. The EVF freezes just as I fire the shutter and pan to get the next shot. It can be worked but I lose several shots in the process. It is very frustrating!

Until EVF development overcomes this problem, then the OVF will remain supreme for professional use IMHO.
 

alphaman

New member
I think as EVF's improve this issue will diminish. I can see lots of advantages to EVFs in terms what they will be able to offer, such as a properly cropped image in the viewfinder for panoramic formats and also for using DT lenses on FF. Also the use of PC lenses and the like are going to be better than with OVFs, but I think we aren't quite there yet - hence the 10 year suggestion.
 
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Vivek

Guest
In addition to that, it is easier to see in B&W. No need to visualise the picture or there isn't a need for monochrome filter like the Wratten #90 filter to see in B&W.

Personally, live view and EVF are extremely useful to me because they let me see in Ultraviolet and in Infrared- the invisible domains of light spectra.

Really useful technological leap! :thumbs:
 

alphaman

New member
In addition to that, it is easier to see in B&W. No need to visualise the picture or there isn't a need for monochrome filter like the Wratten #90 filter to see in B&W.

Personally, live view and EVF are extremely useful to me because they let me see in Ultraviolet and in Infrared- the invisible domains of light spectra.

Really useful technological leap! :thumbs:

Good point!
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Personally, I prefer a choice of technology in the market place. Which all the advance in technology, there never has been a perfect solution. The EVF/Monitor with my m4/3 camera is really nice, the optical viewfinder in my Pentax 645D is also really nice. I would not want to reverse those options though.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Thanks for the link Doug - very nice hot-rod mod there! I am waiting for Nex7 deliveries down here in Oz and will definately add this functionality.

Pete
 

douglasf13

New member
Sure, thing, Pete. That contraption works surprisingly well, although there is some distortion at the edges, which never bothered me much.

Something did just hit me, though. The Nex-5 has notches below the LCD that you clip that hood into, but, for some reason, those notches aren't on the Nex-5N, and I don't know if they're on the Nex-7. You may need another hood that attaches a different way.
 

philip_pj

New member
'You see the real thing.'

You mean like the real thing you see in perfect detail *before* you bring your eye to the EVF to take the photo you have chosen to take?

The same EVF which has the potential to show you exactly, according to your carefully selected settings, the ex-camera image that is the result of all the effort in the first place - which is what you presumably took the photo to obtain.

It is a potent technology as compared with merely imagining what the camera will deliver...At the pace Sony is innovating the technology, EVFs and associated tech will soon be good enough for most photographers.

It will definitely soon beat squinting at dim, lame OVFs that lack focus aids because they are now so AF-dependent that they need the crutch of micro-adjust/LV to deliver accurately at all. OVFs are good for framing the composition and not a great deal more, and only then if 100% VF. My opinion anyway, FWIW.
 
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