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Thread: Is the NEX system winding down?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    ...... I raise my arm high as far as chasing technology throughout most of my years in photography. I plead guilty as charged

    The sad thing is that nearly all of them KNOW it's rarely ever the hardware that makes the difference but continue to grasp for the gold ring while riding full blast on the techno junkie merry go round. GAS is addicting and is a fix that never seems to satisfy only accelerate our need to chase the latest and greatest.

    Without question 90% or more of those we see on this treadmill could take a great photo with a wooden box, a sheet of 4x5 film, and pinhole drilled through one side. They are very accomplished photographers! I guess the chase is what keeps their interest heightened and keeps them in the game. I truly hope they find what they are looking for .......

  2. #102
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Millsart:

    it also has a very fast refresh rate (with an option to double it)
    how is that activated, please?

    I have sold my NEX-7; and will have a bunch of CV lenses for sale when I get back home, too.

    I have settled on the OM-D, 12/2, 20/1.7, 25/1.4, and 45/1.8 for now. I will probably get the 7–14/4, and compare side-by-side with the GXR-M and 12/5.6. If the 7-14 works (distortion-wise) in Lr (AFAIK, there is no auto lens correction in Aperture), then I will sell the GXR, too, as well as the CV 12.

    One or two minor glitches in the OM-D's setup (thinking of TerryB's posts re. non-sticky setting of the focus rectangle, for example), and a menu that is—interesting—but overall the best package for me. Those lenses are excellent AND have AF that works. The Face Detection is a blessing when shooting children; it works extremely well.

  3. #103
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    aawee sad kit, guess new OM-D grreatly out surpassed the Nex 7.Let me know how much you would be wanting for the CV12, hehe

  4. #104
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Kit, go into the custom setup menu, tab J- "built in EVF" and there is an option for frame rate between "normal" and "high"

    High will show a bit more graininess in low light/high ISO though

  5. #105
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I think that for many, the quest of finding the "perfect" gear, isn't so much done with the idea that the new gear will make them better photographers or anything, but merely part of the fun in that its an excuse to shoot more.

    As a guitar player, I know some very talented players who would sound great on darn near any cheapo guitar and amp rig. However, they often are always buying new pickups for their guitars, new effects pedals etc. Its really just to keep things new and fresh and exciting.

    I'll be the first to admit that as much as I do love photography, as I do it for a living as well, I don't shoot for pleasure as much as I used to.

    However, when I get a new camera, naturally I've got to head out to the park etc to try it out. Its an excuse to get me out and shooting just for fun, under the guise of "testing" new gear, but darn if I don't find myself having fun.

    Now, sure, I should probably be able to grab my current gear and go do the same thing, but I find I just don't.

    A new camera, a new lenses, etc seems to be the requiring motivation to get me out there shooting for fun and remind my what I love so about the hobby. I think a lot of people are perhaps the same way.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I think your right Millsart...... it is a GAS addiction that keeps the photography enthusiasm juices flowing for many or most in the techno pack. Sad thing is those non pack consumers seeking a single camera to use and enjoy read the packs enthusiasm and see their pics and may go ahead and buy "todays special" only to find out that well maybe it is not "the best camera I have ever owned."

    The "pack" has a huge number of fantastic photographers that draw a lot of attention from those looking to emulate them ...... you have to feel sorry for the guys just starting out that buy "today's special" because the pack has blessed this or that camera system only to find a month later that "it's not the best anymore in the packs eye's" and quite honestly the camera they (the noob) bought probably was never the best camera for their need and wants to begin with. I am sure this happens more than we realize.

    Personally, I bought my original NEX5 because I enjoyed it and saw it's potential as a universal digital back for any lens I owned. The pack came and left and I still loved my NEX5. Then the pack returned with the 5n and EVF ... I still enjoyed my NEX5. I decided to try the 7 because I had the a77 and liked the base iso resolution and figured the 7 would be even better for my landscape shots with legacy glass. I like my 7 and still use my 5, a33, and a77 each has their own strong points which I use to my advantage when needed. For the first time in many years I am content and actively using my tools not lusting for anything new and exciting........... it too is a great feeling!!!!

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millsart View Post
    As a guitar player, I know some very talented players who would sound great on darn near any cheapo guitar and amp rig. However, they often are always buying new pickups for their guitars, new effects pedals etc. Its really just to keep things new and fresh and exciting.
    Man, tell me about it. I used to spend myself into the ground on guitars, pedals and amps. Working at Guitar Center Hollywood in my early 20s sure didn't help! Eventually, I settled on a couple of each and finally got of that GAS train.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Man, tell me about it. I used to spend myself into the ground on guitars, pedals and amps. Working at Guitar Center Hollywood in my early 20s sure didn't help! Eventually, I settled on a couple of each and finally got of that GAS train.
    I luckily switched to software modeling (Amplitube 3, Amplitube Fender and Overloud TH2) so now I can have literally hundreds of different effects pedals, amps, cabs etc, and they often keep updating the software with some new stuff too.

    So much cheaper and yet equally satisfying to try a new Ibanez wah model via software as it would be to hunt one down on Ebay.

    Usually either way I end up playing with it for an hour and then going back to what I've got LOL

  9. #109
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millsart View Post
    I luckily switched to software modeling (Amplitube 3, Amplitube Fender and Overloud TH2) so now I can have literally hundreds of different effects pedals, amps, cabs etc, and they often keep updating the software with some new stuff too.

    So much cheaper and yet equally satisfying to try a new Ibanez wah model via software as it would be to hunt one down on Ebay.

    Usually either way I end up playing with it for an hour and then going back to what I've got LOL
    Yeah, I was playing live around town for several years, so I was into hand wired pedals, non-master volume amps, and all of that ridiculous stuff. I'm lucky that my ears recovered from those amps...well, I should say mostly recovered. I eventually wised up a bit and stuck with a Bogner Ecstasy, a handful of pedals, and a few guitars. Like with photography, too much choice really starts bogging me down.

  10. #110
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    @ mazor: no, the NEX-7 does produce slightly better files, and more tweakable in PP, too, but overall, the IBIS, excellent EVF, and the also excellent lenses mean that (for the first time, for me) the gear is not getting in my way. I will keep this for a while.

    And the CV 12 will be up for sale, along with all the GXR gear and quite a few other CV lenses. Should be up on the BS this weekend.

    @ Millsart: thanks for that heads-up re. the EVF; can't see any visual differences yet, but will keep an eye on it.

    In general, like many here, getting new gear is a buzz, but I have got to the point now where I just want to be able to have something with me all the time, and a single system, at that. And I also have to admit that having used so many systems over the last ten years, I have not become 100% automatic/fluid with any of them (I am talking under production shooting pressure) apart from the D3. But once I moved from that system to the Sony A850, roughly coinciding with the advent of the mirrorless systems maturing, I decided I wanted to intense time and energy trialing and choosing a single system.

    It's not perfect, but it's the OM-D for now.
    Kit Laughlin, www.StretchTherapy.net/, www.KitLaughlin.com/bodypress/
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  11. #111
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    kit laughlin, good to see you are liking your OM-D. Good to see you are not buying into a single system when you go OM-D, as now you have future options especially if Panasonic bring out models in the future that are appealing to you.

  12. #112
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?


    Douglas,
    I didn't know you were a rock star also. Way to go.
    I use to live walking distance to the Roxy on Sunset Blvd. back in the mid 1980's

    Steven

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Yeah, I was playing live around town for several years, so I was into hand wired pedals, non-master volume amps, and all of that ridiculous stuff. I'm lucky that my ears recovered from those amps...well, I should say mostly recovered. I eventually wised up a bit and stuck with a Bogner Ecstasy, a handful of pedals, and a few guitars. Like with photography, too much choice really starts bogging me down.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  13. #113
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I was one of those fools with a JCM800 and a 1960A cabinet that I used to play in the basement. Cranked

    Given I'm currently back in school earning a doctorate in Audiology I feel such practices would be looked down upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Yeah, I was playing live around town for several years, so I was into hand wired pedals, non-master volume amps, and all of that ridiculous stuff. I'm lucky that my ears recovered from those amps...well, I should say mostly recovered. I eventually wised up a bit and stuck with a Bogner Ecstasy, a handful of pedals, and a few guitars. Like with photography, too much choice really starts bogging me down.

  14. #114
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    After lusting after the Nex 7, the new Fuji, and possibly saving for an M9, I decided to concentrate on my health (being on the camera lust wagon can make one crazy) and buy a concept 2 rowing machine instead. I will continue using the a900 until I can afford another camera or it falls apart.

    Wow, I feel better already.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    After lusting after the Nex 7, the new Fuji, and possibly saving for an M9, I decided to concentrate on my health (being on the camera lust wagon can make one crazy) and buy a concept 2 rowing machine instead. I will continue using the a900 until I can afford another camera or it falls apart.

    Wow, I feel better already.
    Best camera purchase decision I've read on this entire forum for the last 5 years.

    -Marc

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    There in laid the problem with buying into a Olympus system but it looks like Panasonic bought into them which should help their future.

    Marc, the 900 is an excellent camera.... And once the "camera of the day" for the pack

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Jim DE, I would have used my M6s until I died if I remained single or had no kids. My wife is the one who told me I must get a good digital camera because the kids are growing and she wants to post pics on FB.

    I am not a professional photographer by any means, but I do need good gear for the photos I take (birthmoms placing their babies for adoption, and adoptive parents seeing their babies for the first time) because I hate flash. I am usually the only person in the room not overwhelmed by what is going on and am counted on to get the shots.

    That said, it is now triathlon season and my wife is competing, so I may need to pick up another Sony body (the 850 will be fine for me) so I can get the pictures of her and her friends that THEY want. If I don't get another body, I will be ok because I can shoot sports (or try to shoot sports) with an M6 and 35 or 50. I have nice glass for the Sony (minolta 24/2.8, minolta 85/1.4, minolta 50/1.4, Leica Summilux R 50/1.4, and the pimp daddy of them all, the CZ 135/1.8.) and have most of the focal lengths covered so I don't need more. I had the 24-70/2.8 but I sold it because it was too slow and I don't like zooms.

    Jim, the a900 might have been the camera of the day for the pack, and other than its weight, it is still an excellent camera for this lone wolf.

  18. #118
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    As I told Marc, the 900 is a great camera! Thing is though today its hard to find one that isn't great depending on ones needs and wants. The thing is I have never found one camera that excelled in all the areas of my needs and wants. My solution because my two most done genre's of photography are so opposite is to find 2 or three camera's to use to cover all my bases.

    This is what I have done ... I use several cameras. Works for me. Would be nice if one camera covered all my bases but I haven't seen one that could and for sure the OMD doesn't even come close. Make a hybrid d800e/D4 with the low light ability of the D3s in a single body and we might be getting close As long as I don't have to mortgage my first born male child to get it and enough great glass to be effective.

    Not asking for much am I ...

    Till then I am sticking with my current 4 cameras that are covering all my needs and wants.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    What is a bit odd, is that when Sony launched the Alpha cameras, there was a relatively complete range of lenses within a short period of time. With NEX, that hasn't happened, and that leaves me totally uninterested in the cameras as well. Maybe NEX isn't winding down, but I do get a feeling that it has never really been winding up.
    Sony acquired Minolta, so there was already a large number of lenses available.

  20. #120
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I guess Sony is dragging their feet on NEX specific glass because they may see with offering two types of A to NEX adapters they have essentially opened up all the current A mount glass to the NEX system.

    I know what you mean though and I don't disagree but I don't use the glass they have already offered either opting for a few great pieces of legacy glass for most all my needs. So for me unless they offer NEX specific lenses that surpass what my legacy glass can do I won't be using them either.

    I own the 16 with both aux lenses, the 30 sig, 18-55 kit lens which all usually sit collecting dust in the backpack.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Jim DE

    The ancient Minolta lenses that I own for the a900 are good enough, and with a bit of post processing, they become better than good enough. After owning the camera for 2 years I am finally figuring out digital photography and the a900. I would like the Nex 7 but I firmly believe that Sony is lazy in developing lenses specific to the system because of all of the other lenses out there. Let's face it, alot of people want Leica glass for the Nex system but Leica glass is way too expensive for most.

    They are also a company that is hemorrhaging money, so the R&D cash is not available. I am not sure that Nex specific lenses will be better than what is already out there and Sony realizes this.

    Years ago, I read a great quote about photography and the pursuit of new gear, which I will paraphrase. Newer glass won't make a person a better photographer if the photographer has no talent. The old adage of "crap in, crap out" still holds for the most part, but photoshop can now work wonders on crap.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I find it surprising everyone here have forgotten history. Seriously.

    Recall just last year, m43 land was complaining about lack of lens and consumer grade body and weak sensor. Remember the complaints about lack of primes in m43? Remember the complaints about overlapping consumer zoom ranges in m43? Fast forward over a year and TWO companies have heeded the calls and produced quality lenses and bodies for m43. I bet those lenses and bodies were atleast 2 years in the planning stage.

    So where does this leave Sony? Distracted and caught off guard. Distracted because they're still trying to satisfy the miniscue marketshare they have in DSLR. I predict they will decide to leave that market within 2 years. Up till last Winter, NEX was just a consumer product. It wasn't till NEX-7 was introduced that it became a serious camera system. Sony even said they were caught off guard by the success of the NEX 7 and rediverting resources to NEX and E lenses. They can't just turn on a dime. Should they have known that NEX was where they should have put more resources in the first place? Yes. I think it really shows how poorly Sony understand the photographic market and consumer sentiment. To be "caught off guard" when consumers have been clamoring for quality lenses and a body like the NEX-7 shows very poor marketing at Sony. On top of that, how big is Sony's optics group versus Olympus' and Panasonic? Olympus is a leader in optics. Panasonic is one of the top 3 aspherical lens foundry in the world. This takes time for Sony to build up and catch up.

    Another year of huge losses should focus Sony. The best case would be for them to completely dump their SLT line and focus on the NEX line. However, the roadblock for them appears to be lenses. They have plenty of engineering capacity on the electronics side so what would they do with those engineers? Can't put them to work in optics because of different skillset. Lay them off? No. They'll probably keep the SLT going just to keep those electronics engineers working. They simply need to divert most of their optics capabilities to NEX and let the SLT die off naturally.

    Anyway, that's just my opinion. I'm still staying with NEX and will give it another year or two. NEX isn't my primary system so I don't really care about lens completeness right now.

  23. #123
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Can't say I do remember the plight of the 4/3 format but honestly I have never taken even the slightest interest in that format.

    I think Sony would be making a mistake bailing in SLT's and the alpha mount lenses. To date I have owned 2 of them and would not like to go back to a dSLR and OVF. What we have is not perfect yet and there is considerable room for improvement but I don't see then going back to OVF's. Just like we don't see pummels built into out cars bucket seats. OVF dSLR's are about to be a casualty of evolution just like 8 track players.

    This is coming from a person who has had a camera in his hands since the 60's and has witnessed numerous evolutionary changes that has change photography tremendously over the years. I see mirrors and OVF as the next evolutionary change about to happen. Whether we like it or not.... Hell I never thought digital would compete with film and dug my heels in and resisted this change ... How much good did that do?

  24. #124
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    I think Sony would be making a mistake bailing in SLT's and the alpha mount lenses.

    I see mirrors and OVF as the next evolutionary change about to happen. Whether we like it or not.... Hell I never thought digital would compete with film and dug my heels in and resisted this change ... How much good did that do?
    First off, would it be a mistake for Sony or for Alpha A owners if they bailed on SLTs? Sony is a company going through many, many years of extreme losses. Even if they had a chance to gain marketshare in the future, would it make financial sense? Even if SLT was profitable, it still might not make sense to continue since they would need to consolidate R&D money on the businesses they WANT to be in. This is simply how big corporations think... especially ones that have been losing massive amounts of money. It also makes more sense to focus on the fast growing line of camera rather than one that isn't growing that much. They have an opportunity in the NEX line that can stagnate very quick if they don't fund it properly. Their ability to gain on Nikon and Canon in SLR/SLT is nearly impossible.

    Concerning the mirror and OVF. I just don't believe in absolute. Medium format still exist. OVF and mirror will also. Perhaps EVF will overtake it in time, but it will not be the only form. Even the current Sony EVF have some serious performance issues when compared with OVF. The lag in the eye sensor enabling the EVF most likely have to do with OLED startup time or battery. Extreme contrast is a problem too. The EVF's quickness to turning off if you take your eyes slightly off the EVF probably has to do with power management. I also would not be surprise to see a future day when researchers warn about the harmful eye health problems of man-made radiation coming from high power EVF. Sometimes, progress brings unintended consequences. Sometimes, the KISS principle is still the best. Sometimes, the natural glow of light from mother nature is most healthy on our eyes. This really is a concern for me.

  25. #125
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    sxlfn, Have you owned and used the EVF on the a77/a65? Or are you taking random internet babble as fact. I will admit (as I did before in the previous post) that the EVF is not perfected yet but you would be hard pressed to find a current owner/user of the a77/a65 (with firmware 1.05 installed) willing to return to the OVF. Those who only gave one a couple minute review at a camera counter really either could not handle change or didn't want to like it in the first place and their posted opinion should be viewed with skepticism. (Sports and low light photographers have justifiable reasons IMO to not go for the a65/77 cameras as they are not the best cameras one could pick for these activities but more due to other reasons than the current level of the EVF alone).

    I think you need to look at the last 8 months sales in the a77 and a65 SLT's to say "it isn't growing" is just bizarre (I know local shops that still have waiting lists for the a77 and it has been out since Oct '11). Then throw on that the sales in the a33, a55, a35, a57 and I assure you it is significant and would of been even more if the natural hazards had not slowed down the flow of inventory. Is it at the d800/800e levels? Of course not what other camera in history has ever been at the d800/800e sales levels? But to say SLT sales "it isn't growing" is not accurate either.

    Either way ----- I see mirrored cameras on the way out. To use the argument of medium format is still around is like saying view cameras are still around and reverse ground glass and loupes are coming back. There are hold outs and reluctance to change as far back as you want to look at photography. When I started no one thought color film was going to make it. Then the digital age came and NO ONE thought digital would ever be a serious photographic media. Hell I was one of those and held a death grip on my Mamiya 645 and Contax G film cameras far longer that I should of (I still even have the Contax G system and use it with Velvia100F). I see the OVF going the same way as the film cameras in the not to distant future (I am sure I will see it in my lifetime and I am an old fart). Just let Nikon or Canon put one on a high end camera and you then can count the years before the OVF will fade away. Remember Nikon owners would always put down high MP sensors not that long ago.... funny when you don't have something how it looks horrible then when you have it it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Listen to a d800 owner now about high MP cameras

  26. #126
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Who knows what Sony is thinking or may be doing in future. I think they are a company enamored of their own corporate ego. Like always, they layer on technology to solve minor issues or needs, and let the more important ones go wanting.

    Case in point, the A900. Wonderful camera ... but they arrogantly dismissed live view, and included two card slots, but never enabled simultaneous RAW capture to both cards.

    The big draw for the Sony Alpha line was the Zeiss optics. Without them, I seriously doubt many would have considered a FF "Sony". Yet ... is there a Zeiss 21mm like the famed C/Y lens? A 28/2 "Hollywood"? 35/1.4FLE? A 100/2 Macro? Nope, and there probably never will be ... because Sony isn't an optics company, they are an electronics business.

    So we get video game, pilot cockpit, innovations to solve issues that no-one has ... and sparse lens innovations or support with new optics for the A or E mount. But hey, we can machine gun off 10 fps to make a crappy in-camera jpeg pano and other highly desirable children's distractions.

    Sony should move the camera division over to their entertainment group.

    -Marc

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Marc, Sony has always been innovative but proprietary to a fault and there in lies many of the issues Sony has had over the years. Look at Betamax for example.

    I don't think you will ever see Sony competing for the high end customer base of Nikon or Canon in still photography (they do dominate in the broadcast/video markets). I think with stills they target lower cost image devices and the customer base that buys them. Kinda like a fishing tackle store carrying 10 times the $40 fishing outfits than the high end stuff and only special ordering a $1500 fly reel if one orders it and pays for it in advance. Ask that tackle dealer and he will tell you he makes far more selling volumes of the cheaper outfits than he does on the high dollar stuff. Sony is after the higher volume budget market not the Pro's. I don't blame them either .... just how much do Pro's spend on gear as a group compared to the entry/average photographers spend as a group? Want to hear nothing but equipment chatter get a group of beginner/average photographers together... thats all they talk about is gear. Look at the Pro's in general and their gear is taped up and beat up and many versions behind what is being sold currently. They make due with what is making them money.... and will use it till it falls apart. I see this all the time around here in the Mid-Atlantic Region.

    Honestly, do you think a guy making money with his camera who cut his teeth with a Nikon film camera, has boxes of lenses and accessories, and can change settings blindfolded with his Nikon's is going to switch camera systems? Same for a Canon owners.... I mean really they are just far too vested and most really don't care what the flavor of the week is so why would Sony even attempt to attract these customers. The smart thing for them is to build their own base of photographers who are starting out and decided to use Sony equipment.

    Yeah we have the techno pack here that jumps systems like some change underwear but they are far from the norm especially for professional photographers. Let me clarify most of these Techno Pack players are exceptional photographers and many make their livings with cameras in their hands but they are not the norm compared to the professionals I personally know and are exposed to weekly. To suggest a move to another brand to the guy's I know will get you a "what the hell for look like you would not believe".

    As far as the bells and whistles on current Sony badged products I feel you pain. I would like to remove or deprogram every video record button on each of them and if the bodies did not have a JPEG mode at all it would no bother me at all. I shoot M,S,A modes in RAW only and it is all I need or want. But, those entry/average customers they are targeting with all these bells and whistles would not buy a camera without them. I see why Sony offers these and I am glad I have the option to just not use them and RAW stops nearly all the BS except that damn video record button.

    Marc, I honestly see your point and truly feel your pain but I don't see it getting any better with future Sony products and if you notice the bells and whistles are filtering into the higher end Nikon's and Canon's as well so even they must see them as marketable items. But I don't ever see Sony offering a Pro line OVF camera again sad as that may be for some to hear. Sony has even come flat out and stated this .... that era is over.

  28. #128
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Jim, I don't disagree with you for the most part. However, I think you place too much emphasis on "Pro" gear habits, and their wants and needs, or are actually limiting "Pro" to a smaller segment than it actually is.

    For example, you over-look a key area of professional photography where photographers DO almost exclusively use 35mm DSLRs, and DO upgrade regularly, swap systems, and buy a lot of camera equipment ... weddings, events, and related portrait/children/family photography. A massive market dominated by full-timers, part-timers and wanna-bes looking to earn some extra cash. The number one weapon of choice for this crowd has been the Canon 5D/5D-II, or Nikon D700 ... and a few rebel personalities like me using an A900 or A850. Plus this group buys at least two of everything and tends to do so every 2 years.

    I follow these markets closely on sites such as the massive DWF pro forum and photo.net wedding/event forums which tends toward the newbies, and there is little to no discussion or interest in EVF on either site. This group is catered to by the big two, so even if Canikon were to adopt EVF, it'll be a sloooooow process and done only when it is obviously salable to such an important cliental. Unlike Sony they will NOT arrogantly force immature technology down the throats of their customers.

    Add to that, the more advanced enthusiasts more focused on IQ than esoteric toys, which are legion these days as evidenced by the run-away success of the D800, and the ranks swell even more.

    Sony is no-wheres-ville in either key market. Instead, they concentrate on a market segment that will increasingly be challenged by the Fuji's of the world on one end (who do know optics), and eventually by cell phones on the other end.

    (Warning: Highly Subjective Rant):

    As to the Sony A77 ... I succumbed to buying one looking to improve the ISO performance over the A900 ... immediately putting it through my usual intense battery of tests to determine its abilities for weddings and such for 3 straight days in all kinds of conditions ... and found it to be the worst camera in hand since I owned and tried using an A55.

    Fussy little camera more suited to those addicted to video games and parlor tricks than photography ... terrible viewfinder experience that distracts more than it informs ... and to top it off, the A900 equalled or beat it at the "usable" ISO comparison for print sizes most used. I returned it forthwith, hopefully having better learned the lesson I should have learned after the A55.

    (End Rant)

    The NEX did interest me as a side line camera, mostly to back-up my M9 at a far more reasonable cost than a second M digital, but the lack of dedicated AF lenses that are optically up to the NEX camera's ability have been conspicuously missing. If I weren't vested in the M system, I'd probably opt for a Fuji X-Pro ... which does have lenses, and probably will get better and better if Fuji stays the course.

    In the meantime I'll run the wheels off the A900s, and wait to scope out the Canon 1DX .... if I even buy into 35mm DSLRs anymore, which I may not do as I wind down the wedding work.

    -Marc

  29. #129
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    The a77 is definitely not a ISO tool and I try to stay 400 and under if at all possible but as I just posted in another thread with my shots and printer even at 1600 I don't see the noise I see at screen viewing. Very odd but is my reality on this. If I have to shoot an eagle at 1600 to get 1/1600 shutter speed I will knowing that my printed image will be fine.

    As far as the EVF on the 77 it isn't perfect but for what I do it isn't distracting either as I rarely even notice a difference except those rare times I am burning pixels on a bird in flight and I get a slideshow.

    But as you said in the beginning this is subjective ...

    Marc, I am friends or know a bushel full of wedding and event photographers through our photographic society. One or two of these people follow the form factor you describe. The rest buy 4-6 camera bodies and keep using them until they no longer work and it cost them to get them fixed. Then they use them as parts cameras for the other ones. They have found cameras that meet their customers needs and wants and just stay with the course. These guys are all making modest incomes as photographers and don't have money to waste chasing technology. Suggest to them to try anything different and you get a big "WHY, I am making money with what I have?"

    I guess high dollar advertising or fashion photographers might be techno chasers as they have much larger bank rolls but the day in day out professionals I know stay with what the have till they can't go any longer then they go out and spend as little as they can to get 4-6 new bodies to restart the process all over at levels their customers accept and enjoy.

    As far as numbers of entry/ average photogs compared to number of pros my guess it would be in the thousands to one or more ( I'm not talking internet pros as it seems on some sites everyone is a pro I'm talking people who make their whole living in photography) I know I was in business all my life and I would not target the Pro camera market over the user market if I wanted to maximize profits. Give me the much greater numbered users cash any day.....

  30. #130
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Bottom line, if I personally was going to re-enter the shooting for cash market (I helped put myself through college and in beer money in the late 60's and early 70's shooting events with medium formats ... Long story and too this day I avoid humans in my pictures because of the burnout I got doing this back then) there in NO doubt I would go with Nikon equipment. It would be stupid to do otherwise and it has nothing to do with viewfinders but everything to do with the company services and hardware line up. I would not go rogue and vary from the course ... No need or reason to Nikon will be here today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow when I might need them.

    As a personal hobby shooter I can live with a lot of things I would not be able to as a pro. For example equipment failure is no big deal for me but devistating for a cash shooter without a pro plan. I bought into Minolta with the 7d due to in body stabilization. I have stayed with this format because I am vested and feel I can get my shots with any box in my hand. If I had abundant cash flow with money no object? I surely would have many varied systems to play with from digital Tech cameras to the flavor of the month cameras.

  31. #131
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Your rhetoric about what you have, be happy, blah, blah. Good for you! Be happy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I think your sole purpose here appears to be to harrass me. I have no clue who you are and I would ask you to leave me and my posts alone. Thanks. I am not too enthusiastic to be posting here under these circumstances.
    The feelings of harrassment are entirely mutual, and I think it was not me who started to behave in that manner. But rest assured, I'll happily comply with your second question

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    No need or reason to Nikon will be here today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow when I might need them.
    Just a rhetorical question, what happens to Nikon if/when Sony decides it no longer wants to sell them sensors? That would put them in a rather tight spot, no?
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Lonnie, It could but I am sure they would have a contingency backup plan if that was to happen. Nikon didn't get to where they are by being unprepared.

    Would be interesting if that was to happen .. Even more interesting to see what Nikon would do if Sony was to go belly up and need investors.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    Just a rhetorical question, what happens to Nikon if/when Sony decides it no longer wants to sell them sensors? That would put them in a rather tight spot, no?
    Nikon used another supplier for it's D700 as far as I know and there is speculation that some of it's newer APSc are using other sensors than Sony. This is purely in the realms of guesswork, rumour and speculation and you can choose who or what you believe as I don't think Nikon will ever admit to who makes sensors for them.

    It seems almost certain that the D800/E and some of the newer APSc cameras do have Sony sensors and so I think it's reasonable to suppose that Nikon use Sony and other(s) to supply sensors. This would be a prudent approach on Nikon's part as it means that if supply from one company or another is restricted or threatened, they can still produce cameras in some form.

  35. #135
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    The D3200 sensor:


  36. #136
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    O love the Sony sensor and I love the NEX cameras but the guy at Sony are real bastards. I mean, come on, stop with the recycling old models scam! And lenses wise it is just deplorable. Lets hope now that Sony has put some money on Olympus they have access to the way do things when it comes to micro 4/3 hehehe.

  37. #137
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Yeah the lens situation for the NEX system could use some work... especially on both ends of the focal lengths. They could use a great 14-16mm for scenics and something in the 300-500 range for us idiots who might like to lighten our wildlife load afield

    Yeah we can use our alpha mount glass but having a E mount specific version wouldn't hurt either.

    And enough with the new bodies .... Sony seems to change body line ups like changing underwear..... work on your glass guys.

  38. #138
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    After lusting after the Nex 7, the new Fuji, and possibly saving for an M9, I decided to concentrate on my health (being on the camera lust wagon can make one crazy) and buy a concept 2 rowing machine instead. I will continue using the a900 until I can afford another camera or it falls apart.

    Wow, I feel better already.
    I am on both - the Concept 2 (Model D) and also the A900. The A900 was purchased in October 2008 or so, and seems to be doing what it was designed to do.

    I briefly bought the NEX7 but sold it and don't miss it one bit. I do have a NEX product, the VG20, mainly for video and the fact that it can shoot stills is a plus.
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

  39. #139
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I was one of the early adopters of NEX, with a 5, then a C3, then a 5N, which I still own, and a 7. My considered opinion is that the 7 is clearly better than the 5N in IQ. I take care of my 3 wides that need it (Zeiss ZM 18, Leica Elmar 24, Contax G 28) with Cornerfix, and the result is fine. Not only does the 7 sensor offer more defintion, which is to be expected, but it also outperforms the 5N in colours and dynamic range. It might be just a bit noisier, maybe between one half stop and one stop, but I can live with that.
    And I don't think Sony have given up on NEX at all. They keep cranking out bodies at a good clip, maybe even needlessly so. The lens situation has not helped, due in part to the Thai floods, that sandbagged the lauch of the 7, which promised to be a huge hit, but then deliveries didn't happen. And, so far, every other high-end smaller-than-DSLR camera that I have tried, including the Fujis, the Leica X1, the M4/3, has failed to deliver IQ that could beat the 5N, let alone the 7. But of course I shoot MF, which alleviates the one great shortcoming of the NEX: high-end AF lenses. When is that $*x!!? G zoom going to be announced?

  40. #140
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Went on an airboat ride in the Everglades with my wife and kids. Didn't bring a camera. Felt naked for a bit but quickly learned how to enjoy the moment without a camera.

  41. #141
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Hate the buttons and its childish interface. Took me some time to get used to it. But it's the most flexible system i ever used. The senors is good, but requires some good glass to show its potential. Definitely not winding down for me, in fact, still learning news thing about the system.
    P.s. if you looking for a camera for motion, Do NOT get Nex 7. But for still, hand down!

    Last edited by at24fps; 3rd August 2012 at 00:06.

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