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Thread: Is the NEX system winding down?

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    Is the NEX system winding down?

    Rumors have it that the only features the new F3 and F5 are the 180deg flip up screen for self portraits and the there is a wifi in F5. No integrated evf , no hotshoe nothing that is really useful for photography.

    Are Sony better off making and selling sensors to those who can make cameras?

    I am not pleased with these developments at all.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Sony is big on milking models with minor changes and endless variations ...

    Look at the mind boggling array of A mount SLTs based on the same 16 and 24 meg APS-C sensors ... which are the same as in the NEX cameras ... again, a bunch of versions with hardly any true differences that we'd be all that interested in.

    Also, rather than discount a product, they make meaningless changes and drop the price (i.e., A900 > A850).

    I'm not happy with the migration to all EVF cameras, so the A900s may be my last Sony.

    -Marc

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    true true, My wish list for the next Sony NEX camera would be some sort of IBIS, as well as double scan rate from the sensor so as to get faster contrast AF, and a higher MP sensor similar to the Nex 7 but without color cast issues.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Crap, just as I was thinking of getting the nex 7 this weekend.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Just be patient, how often do you really need a new camera anyway (I'm still on an original NEX 5 and won't upgrade until that is really broken or obsolete)

    Also the F3 (haven't seen the specs for the F5 yet) has a pop-up flash and a port to mount the external viewfinder. In my mind these are useful features versus the NEX 3 / C3

    I think we should complain less and enjoy more.
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Just be patient, how often do you really need a new camera anyway (I'm still on an original NEX 5 and won't upgrade until that is really broken or obsolete)
    ....
    I think we should complain less and enjoy more.
    As someone who still shoots the original Canon 5D and the NEX 3 (admittedly I did spring for a 7) I whole heartedly agree with Pegelli. Your lenses and skill will do far more for your photography then a new body.

    Let's be clear that the mirrorless market is in its infancy. Just because many of us enthusiasts have been tuned in for several years, it doesn't change the fact that the larger market is just starting to learn that they can have dSLR quality in a smaller package. And to that point, Sony will continue to refine their bodies for that emerging market. I think the F3 is a great example and I am recommending it to many friends who are "mirrorless curious".

    How quickly everyone forgets that Sony did us pros and enthusiasts right with the 7. It truly is an amazing camera for the high-end and frankly Sony and companies like Fuji and Olympus with the X-Pro 1 and OM-D have my respect and support.
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    +1

    Winding down? My gosh, have we become such a legion of fine little consumer robots, forever waiting for the next titillating new toy to spend our money on! "If only they'd.." insert pet new feature desire that solves all your photographic problems here, only to be replaced by the next one when they announce the next model that includes it.

    How much "more more more better better better better" is needed to escape the circle of reflex equipment acquisition and do photography?
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    The NEX-7 still has its drawbacks, AFAIC. With small manual focus wide primes, the NEX-C3 is my most used NEX currently. The 7 just sits around though I have all the E mount primes (barring the 19/2.8 DN).

    What the C3 lacks, for me, is the electronic first curtain shutter (the major thing) which is of course available in a 5N. But I like a flat bottom in my cameras (had the 5 and never liked it). Handholding for shots less than 1/80s without having shake is simply not possible for me. The 7 is better in that regard but the higher pixel density essentially negates all that ergonomic advantage.

    The F3 might have the shutter like the 5N. No one could confirm that for me. Sony never released any details (afaik). I am not at all comfortable with this idea of either the EVF or the flash. NEX-7 would have been perfect in that regard had they kept their excellent 16mp sensor which is making rounds in every camera there is (Leica, Pentax, Nikon, etc, etc.).

    I am going to have a serious look at the rumored Canon debut in a few months. If they offer something that suits my requirements plus their radio wireless system, it will be a done deal.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Vivek, I am still paying the NEX-7 off against the OM-D—the NEX-3 does not have a built-in EVF which I now feel is essential. How do you use yours?

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Rumors have it that the only features the new F3 and F5 are the 180deg flip up screen for self portraits and the there is a wifi in F5. No integrated evf , no hotshoe nothing that is really useful for photography.
    But this has been the story of m4/3 too - there's been only one major generational change in sensor technology and fundamental imaging capability so far, but in the meantime the available models have been iterated furiously with minor changes.

    Sony is doing the same thing with the SLTs, and, alas, it seems that Canon may be falling into that trap as well with the low-end and midrange models that use its 18MP sensor.

    The bigger issue with Sony and its future is that they're not making any money in cameras. But they've declared imaging as part of their new strategic focus, so it seems they'll be at it for a while yet.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    ....My gosh, have we become such a legion of fine little consumer robots, forever waiting for the next titillating new toy to spend our money on!?

    ....
    Yes. One does not have to look far to see the evidence.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Pegelli, I still use two film M6s (one is 12 years old, the other older) and plan on using them until my fingers can no longer press the shutter.

    I am looking for a replacement for the a900 which is 2.5 years old. I don't need something better but I do need something different and lighter. This weekend I am going to Disney with my family, and I don't really want to carry the a900 and a standard minolta 50/1.4, but my wife wants digital. The nex 7 seems to be perfectly sized for what I need, plus it takes whatever glass I have. Yeah, I would like an M9, but it isn't practical because I wouldn't bring it to Disney, on family trips, or to the beach to photograph triathlons.

    I see the "cool" people in Miami with the latest gear and it will get even worse now that the Leica store is opening up here in Coral Gables. Every fondler / bozo around town will be sporting a new M body and lens, but they won't be taking pictures because they won't know how to turn the damned thing on.
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    Yes. One does not have to look far to see the evidence.
    First off, I am not into old yellow porsches.

    Do you folks have any clue about what is being discussed here or just oozing some random wisdom?

    The upcoming NEX-F5 is rumored to have wifi and 180 deg flip screen to do self portraits because Samsung have come with such a camera (with wifi). Sony got beat thoroughly by Samsung in their TV department and now they are doing follow the "leader" and are likely to end up similarly with their "imaging division" as well, at this rate.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Vivek, I am still paying the NEX-7 off against the OM-D—the NEX-3 does not have a built-in EVF which I now feel is essential. How do you use yours?
    Kit, I am using a newly "discovered" NEX-C3. This is not the NEX-3. Very different sensor.

    I use it exactly as if there is no EVF on the NEX-7 or the OM-D. The LCD can be tilted, as you know.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    What's the big deal, this is just a minor product refresh. "Minor" to us that is. Not trivial for someone who likes to include themselves in their photos (Japan domestic market) or who really wanted a built-in flash. They aren't just competing against Samsung after all, but against phones, tablets and handheld game consoles too.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Just be patient, how often do you really need a new camera anyway (I'm still on an original NEX 5 and won't upgrade until that is really broken or obsolete)

    Also the F3 (haven't seen the specs for the F5 yet) has a pop-up flash and a port to mount the external viewfinder. In my mind these are useful features versus the NEX 3 / C3

    I think we should complain less and enjoy more.
    I have both the nex 5 and nex 5n. The difference in formfactors and controls are pretty similar with the 5n just having a few more custom menu features, but in terms of sensor quality, the nex 5 sensor does not seem any where the same perceived sharpness that the 5n has. I don't think the mp difference is causing this, rather possibly the 5 has a stronger AA filter, but it just looks mushy compared to the 5n.
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I know mazor and in hindsight I probably should have waited for the 5n but I didn't. Both the better sensor as well as the viewfinder port are big attractions in the 5n for me. However I have convinced myself that always getting the latest and greatest camera doesn't improve my pictures so much that it justifies the cost involved. I have learned to be happy with what I have and will probably jump round about the time that the successor of the successor of the F5 is in the shops.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    First off, I am not into old yellow porsches. ...
    Got the wrong marque, Vivek.
    Let it roll off your tongue: "Mercedes" .. Doesn't sound anything like "Porsche."

    ];-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    ...The upcoming NEX-F5 is rumored to have wifi and 180 deg flip screen to do self portraits because Samsung have come with such a camera (with wifi). Sony got beat thoroughly by Samsung in their TV department and now they are doing follow the "leader" and are likely to end up similarly with their "imaging division" as well, at this rate.
    Who really cares? I don't.
    Sony has some nice cameras ... If I wanted one, I'd buy it and make photographs. I don't buy cameras on future potentials, I buy cameras on what they do. And I certainly don't need wifi in my cameras.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Sony always refreshes their low end models frequently with new different/feature sets introduced all of the time. I think this makes sense, if you don't plan on buying cameras every year, because Sony ticked the right boxes for some users with the 5N and C3, and now they're going after other users that wanted other features. The 7 and 9 level cameras are usually around for a few years, and, frankly, that's what Sony expects you to buy if you want all of the advanced controls and the better sensor in a camera you'll keep for a while. Now, I know that the NEX-7 isn't better if you're using rangefinder lenses, but we can't really expect Sony to cater to that.

    I can't really imagine going back to my 5 or 5N after using the 7.
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Rumors have it that.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    First off, I am not into old yellow porsches.

    Do you folks have any clue about what is being discussed here or just oozing some random wisdom?
    Since we are into discussing ' rumors '; it really does not matter whether we discuss ' yellow porsches ' or have/ not have a clue about anything.

    Better to ooze wisdom about something, random or otherwise, than have incessant discussion about ' rumors ' .:sleep006:

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Godfrey nicely said. I think time waiting for newer models is time lost not capturing the moment.

    I am not really sure what Sony could really do to make the already good NEX series even better. The only "marketing" feature they could do is possibly increase the MP of the sensor, possibly even better AF similar to the Pannys MFT.

    I really think though Sony needs to being out some faster aperture zoom lens similar to whats on offering with MFT

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    Since we are into discussing ' rumors '; it really does not matter whether we discuss ' yellow porsches ' or have/ not have a clue about anything.

    Better to ooze wisdom about something, random or otherwise, than have incessant discussion about ' rumors ' .:sleep006:
    Misplaced "wisdom", directed at the wrong person uttered for completely the wrong reasons without understanding what actually is being addressed is a lot worse than "rumors".

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Got the wrong marque, Vivek.
    Let it roll off your tongue: "Mercedes" .. Doesn't sound anything like "Porsche."

    ];-)



    Who really cares? I don't.
    Sony has some nice cameras ... If I wanted one, I'd buy it and make photographs. I don't buy cameras on future potentials, I buy cameras on what they do. And I certainly don't need wifi in my cameras.
    Neither do I and that is the whole point of my frustration.

    FWIW, if it is yellow whether it is a Lada or Porsche..

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post

    I can't really imagine going back to my 5 or 5N after using the 7.
    I did worse than that. Went to a C3. fabulous sensor!

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I did worse than that. Went to a C3. fabulous sensor!
    Fabulous sensor, but the 7's is as good or better in every regard...again, assuming you're not using rangefinder lenses. FWIW, I know a guy on another forum that claims the 5N's sensor is a little better than the C3's, but I've not seen any real evidence of that, outside of the lower base ISO.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    And I certainly don't need wifi in my cameras.
    Neither do I. I have an F6 already, and it doesn't have it either, but it does have interchangeable sensors with integrated RAW storage.... ooops, wrong forum. That's a Nikon
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Its not winding down by any means, but lately I have seen a lot of people selling their NEX systems in favor of the Xpro or OM-D. Likewise no revolutionary upgrades this round of releases save for a flip screen and a updated 18-200 that probably not many people here were asking for, but its hardly the end of the product cycle.

    These things ebb and flow. Just watch when a new 35mm f1.4 OSS Sony prime comes out, or maybe an UWA zoom, and you'll see OM-D's, XPro's etc up for sale and people buying back into the NEX system.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millsart View Post

    These things ebb and flow. Just watch when a new 35mm f1.4 OSS Sony prime comes out, or maybe an UWA zoom, and you'll see OM-D's, XPro's etc up for sale and people buying back into the NEX system.
    No kidding, and both of those are expected this year, so we'll see soon enough (although I think the 35mm will be f1.8.)

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    ... My gosh, have we become such a legion of fine little consumer robots, forever waiting for the next titillating new toy to spend our money on!
    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post

    Yes. One does not have to look far to see the evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    First off, I am not into old yellow porsches.

    Do you folks have any clue about what is being discussed here or just oozing some random wisdom?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Rumors have it ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Misplaced "wisdom", directed at the wrong person uttered for completely the wrong reasons without understanding what actually is being addressed is a lot worse than "rumors".
    ...
    I answered a simple question that was posted.

    I have not originally mentioned about any rumors nor talked about ' wisdom '. Neither oozed it, neither misattributed it, nor misplaced it.

    Only when ' wisdom ' first struck did I refer to it.

    I have quoted the relevant passages above.


    Regards.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Fabulous sensor, but the 7's is as good or better in every regard...again, assuming you're not using rangefinder lenses. FWIW, I know a guy on another forum that claims the 5N's sensor is a little better than the C3's, but I've not seen any real evidence of that, outside of the lower base ISO.
    I am quite sure the processor in 5N is much better than C3. I am using RF lenses and even worse (ie., very short back focal length). The C3 takes them all in its stride.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    No kidding, and both of those are expected this year, so we'll see soon enough (although I think the 35mm will be f1.8.)
    Agree on that f/1.8. Faster than that isn't going happen with the current state of the art CDAF.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Well, I have no problem with people just talking about getting better and better cameras and trying to find the ultimate best system. If the D3, new Canon, M4/3 or anything else scratch your itch for that it's great, everybody happy with what they have and use.

    What I do have a problem with is declaring a system "winding down" when it doesn't need your personal needs and (conciously or unconciously) leaving out key upgrades to make it even look worse. Especially when these posters then get cross with everybody who disagrees with their opinion.

    I think we all post here to express different viewpoints and learn from the viewpoints of others, and not to be ridiculed for a different point of view.

    Nuff said, another discussion gone south quickly

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post

    What I do have a problem with is declaring a system "winding down" when it doesn't need your personal needs and (conciously or unconciously) leaving out key upgrades to make it even look worse. Especially when these posters then get cross with everybody who disagrees with their opinion.
    Then you should not have a problem with me if you correct your reading of a question as "declaration".

    Some of those who posted here couldn't care less where this system is or where it might go.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    ...Some of those who posted here couldn't care less where this system is or where it might go.
    Who might you be referring to?

    I don't know about anyone else, but I do watch Sony's NEX and SLT lineup carefully. I haven't found any that I was interested in enough to buy yet, but the NEX 7 seemed a good possibility for a while. I'm interested to see all camera technology improve, even if my own interests as "Ye Olde Photo Farte" would have me more comfortable with stone knives and bear's claws.

    Now keep an eye out for them Yellow cars.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    I was one of the NEX7 sellers. If I had to chose a camera between the NEX7 and the X-Pro1, I prefer shooting with the X-Pro1. That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the Sony. It is just my preference in tool. Now the X-Pro1 does solve wide or long for me and I need another solution. That solution was either NEX or m4/3. While I like the resolution etc. of the NEX7, m4/3 had the right lenses to compliment my Fuji.

    So, I don't subscribe to the NEX is going away principal, I do subscribe to Sony being dumb. In two years we've had 6 bodies...and a very slow trickle of lenses. This manufacturing schedule needs to be reversed....and quickly.
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Well gentlemen, I like the NEX-7 and use the RF wides on another camera.
    The only thing I want is a full frame sensor which hopefully works with the wides as well, in a small (NEX-7 like) EVF body. It feels good with all he dials especially with the Gariz case, otherwis the camera would be just to petite for my hands.

    There is a rumor all Sony cameras will be yellow this summer.
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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Rumors have it that the only features the new F3 and F5 are the 180deg flip up screen for self portraits and the there is a wifi in F5. No integrated evf , no hotshoe nothing that is really useful for photography.

    Are Sony better off making and selling sensors to those who can make cameras?

    I am not pleased with these developments at all.
    Well I for one won't buy a camera that makes it easier for self portraits, heck, I even cover up the webcam on my MacBook Air with a piece of tape lest I scare myself by accidentally opening Photobooth.

    As far as wifi goes, if there were an iOS style interface (as opposed to the usual UI mess that most cameras include) that allowed quick uploads to flickr, twitpic or other services, that I would find useful and I'm sure many others would, too.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Well gentlemen, I like the NEX-7 and use the RF wides on another camera.
    The only thing I want is a full frame sensor which hopefully works with the wides as well, in a small (NEX-7 like) EVF body. It feels good with all he dials especially with the Gariz case, otherwis the camera would be just to petite for my hands.
    I keep seeing comments disparaging the NEX-7 and RF wides. Yes, there are corner color issues with symmetrical designs but I just picked up a Heliar 15mm for $300 and after 30 minutes of CornerFix setup, frankly I'm stunned. Maybe this isn't for everyone but with a minimal amount of effort, this particular wide shines brightly on the 7.

    The combination of excellent control, EVF, tilt-screen, resolution, size (especially with the Gariz) and peaking for legacy lenses has me about as content as can be.

    Yes, there is always an urge to try out an OM-D or an X-Pro 1 but I have had a chance to put hands on both and while I recognize their allures, I've been on this carousel before and have come away understanding what makes the 7 so appealing to me and what I would miss if I switched.

    Different strokes, as we all have our own demands from a camera platform but for me, even if by some bizarre chance that Vivek's question is affirmed, I'll be happy with this camera for a long time.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I did worse than that. Went to a C3. fabulous sensor!
    Go C3!!

    To make the nex 7 stand out more in the future it would be nice it they could fix colorcasting with legacy rangefinder lens but also maybe a more powerful bioz processor to control noise at higher ISO, and hence allow the auto ISO to go above 1600.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    BTW There are still enough wide angle lenses (not super wide) out there which do perform well on the NEX-7.
    I like the C/Y Zeiss 18/4 28/2.8 and the Minolta/Canon FD 20/2.8, 24/2.8, 28/2. And there are Olympus OM lenses as well in that range.
    And of course the Sigma lenses

    A lot of those lenses together makes the price of a Sony/Zeiss 24.


    Michiel

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    How much "more more more better better better better" is needed to escape the circle of reflex equipment acquisition and do photography?
    Oh - much more than this!

    A simple answer is to get an M9 - after which everything seems moot . .. but the effect doesn't last forever

    But I kind of agree with Marc on this one - there was also a telling remark by David Kilpatrick to the effect that Sony were much more interested in new users than their existing users.

    all the best

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post

    So, I don't subscribe to the NEX is going away principal, I do subscribe to Sony being dumb. In two years we've had 6 bodies...and a very slow trickle of lenses. This manufacturing schedule needs to be reversed....and quickly.
    +1

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    Go C3!!

    To make the nex 7 stand out more in the future it would be nice it they could fix colorcasting with legacy rangefinder lens but also maybe a more powerful bioz processor to control noise at higher ISO, and hence allow the auto ISO to go above 1600.

    +1

    FWIW, the prices of the NEX-C3 bodies went up a bit after I bought mine (199 Euros). Should have a bought a few then.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    So, I don't subscribe to the NEX is going away principal, I do subscribe to Sony being dumb. In two years we've had 6 bodies...and a very slow trickle of lenses. This manufacturing schedule needs to be reversed....and quickly.
    I'm sure you're right that they're not going away, but the lens issue does rather back up the idea that they're looking for new customers rather than looking after existing customers.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    In my opinion, the heart of any system is the selection of lenses available and not the body.

    The lens is the single most important part and the sensor is a close second while the rest of the camera is a glorified box.

    Too many bodies and too few lenses = a poor choice for the would be buyer of Sony products. I have a poverty of Sony lenses which is their loss as well as mine (Sigma may well benefit).

    Sony needs to stop making little gimmicky changes to existing bodies to lure in new users and look after it's loyal fan base with a good choice of top quality, black finished, affordable lenses - let's give Micro 4/3 and Fuji a run for their money instead as being an "also ran".

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    New users vs. existing users? Isn't the beauty of the nex 7 system the ability to use almost any lens? Seems to me then that the nex system isn't really winding down for good, but may be retooling.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?


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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Excellent Terry - thanks for that.
    When Thom gets it he really does it well.
    I think it explains pretty well why you and I seem to have gravitated to the OMD.

    . . . . and with that 12-35 egg, and also the 75 egg on it's way it seems even more what's wanted.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    What is a bit odd, is that when Sony launched the Alpha cameras, there was a relatively complete range of lenses within a short period of time. With NEX, that hasn't happened, and that leaves me totally uninterested in the cameras as well. Maybe NEX isn't winding down, but I do get a feeling that it has never really been winding up.

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...
    A simple answer is to get an M9 - after which everything seems moot . .. but the effect doesn't last forever
    It doesn't? Damn.
    Has to last until 2013 ... ]'-)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ... But I kind of agree with Marc on this one - there was also a telling remark by David Kilpatrick to the effect that Sony were much more interested in new users than their existing users.
    Makes sense if you're trying to grow market share. You don't grow market share by re-selling to the same customers. ... !

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    Re: Is the NEX system winding down?

    Nearly all of the original Sony Alpha lenses were rebadged Minolta lenses, so they had a way to fast track the system. I don't quite understand the big deal. Sony has shown the Nex lens roadmap and basically stuck with it. This stuff takes time, and m4/3 had quite a head start.

    It doesn't matter to me much, anyways. Regardless of the system, I only shoot 3-4 lenses, and I'm already covered by Sony/Sigma. I may be interested in the large aperture standard prime, but I'm enjoying my current lens setup of 19, 30, 50.
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