Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 85

Thread: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

  1. #1
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Question Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?


  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Lots of "premature deaths" being reported lately ... maybe we need an obit section on GetDpi

    There has always been some "M killer" real or imagined. Yet, they are gone and the M lives on.

    The only company that is capable of killing off the M ... is Leica itself

    -Marc
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Don't care if it is anything compared to anything but if it comes out you would have to work very very hard to stop me buying one!

    Just finally got a Leica split screen viewfinder for my 5D (the R8/9 viewfinder, you have to snip off just a tiny tab and it fits perfectly) but it has to be shimmed to get accuracy (I'll get round to it I suppose, not my idea of fun) and with the AF squares still visible it's not that much fun to use. With canon at least, if you want a split screen you need a 1 series to do it properly and to be honest I'd rather not have to deal with the brick!

    I think I'd kill for a FF EVF camera with peaking. All I want is a normal sized and affordable FF camera with the ability to use ALT lenses and accurate focus without having to rely on a tripod and live view. I know that an M9 with a 50mm lux pre-asph would do me perfectly both for size, usability and the look I want but I haven't robbed any banks recently
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    528
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    I'm trying to contain my enthusiasm, but this is exactly what I and many other Sony users have been hoping for (which is why I keep thinking it's too good to be true). If it can let me use my full-frame legacy and A-mount glass then it's gonna fun. Basically this will replace my A-850 and probably the NEX-5N at once. But we'll probably have to wait many months to really know for sure.

    Regards,
    John

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    325
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    I was under the impression that the NEX mount is not big enough for a FF sensor. On the other hand there have been rumors about a coming hybrid mount Sony that could mount both A and E lenses. Could it be a FF camera that uses the whole sensor for A mount lenses but only a cropped part for E lenses?

    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-s...llframe-nex-7/

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    528
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    I was under the impression that the NEX mount is not big enough for a FF sensor.
    The inner diameter (ID) of the e-mount is wider than the ID of my a-mount camera which is a full-frame. I think it is wide enough. Real question is can they make lenses that work well with such a short focal distance? Can they at least make a sensor that works well with RF lenses? I hope the answer is yes.

    Regards,
    John

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    I have recently been trying to curb my buying (GAS), despite an equal amount of selling occurs and consolidate to just two systems: Canon FF and Olympus OMD-EM5 systems.

    While other manufacturers have gone the APS-C direction, obviously any commitment leaves the door wide open for whoever goes FF first, now if one goes FF, it maybe the case if Sony is successful, then the others will follow. That's how Market research is done! They look at the success and failures of other companies too.

    I really dislike any mirrorless coming out having the headline as Leica Killer. Other camera have always existed alongside Leica, and Leica have done fine! You are either into Leica or you're not, or just indifferent about it. I personally love their glass, period!

    Problem is with Sony, I have to see what glass they are releasing with it and what the menu system is like, the Nintendo system gets tiresome really quickly. I've gone through too many systems in the past, that these are the real deal breakers, unfortunately the sensor isn't everything: handling, ergonomics, lenses, flash system all go hand in hand. Despite having said all this; kudos and support IF Sony does release their first mirror-less system, they can at least say they are the first out the door, if Leica doesn't offer some sort of EVF with the M10 before them! Either way this is great news if true.
    ___________________
    Po-Ming Chu
    POPHOTO

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    Real question is can they make lenses that work well with such a short focal distance? Can they at least make a sensor that works well with RF lenses? I hope the answer is yes.
    The answer to the first is 'yes' as lenses can be designed to support the sensor. The follow up to the second question is, what would be Sony's interest in supporting RF lenses?

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    With liveview, fast lenses can be focused more accurately than just a center patch RF. No need to worry about mechanical couplings, aperture induced focus shifts and the whole works.

    Samsung, despite their impressive number of lenses, have not made much of an impact. Camera registry is a big impediment.

  10. #10
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Park City, UT
    Posts
    1,071
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    34

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    FF= WA and better high ISO and maybe a littler better DR. I don't see how Sony can create a FF NEX body and expect to have good WA performance, especially since it almost impossible with the current NEX 7, of course unless you have a lecia tri-elmar.
    What all of us NEX 7 owners are waiting for are better LENSES...
    and I'm not talking about a 16-50mm pancake zoom or 11-18wa zoom.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    it is a highly diversed world, and Leica just needed a small fraction of it will then claimed victory, it is more of a status, mechanical excellence. I would use a Leica M when feel using it as any one who has a medium format digital back can also shoot with a SONY RX100, it is part of the fun.
    Leica is not a Wal-Mart camera, it will be there.

    BR,
    Pingang

  12. #12
    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Colorado USA
    Posts
    518
    Post Thanks / Like

    No.

    Leica M will continue to have a place in this world as long as enough people are willing to pay a premium for what it has to offer: The essence of luxury isn't necessarily about offering the best possible performance, but it has everything to do with how a product makes you feel when you pick it up, work the controls, look through the finder, etc. And if this makes the user feel somehow more thoughtful or engaged in the process, more power to them.

    In terms of pure photographic performance, even the original NEX-5 and kit lenses were an indication that high-quality imaging in a small package were quickly becoming commodities.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #13
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Gawd, not another camera..what will I tell the wife???!
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  14. #14
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    That it is not a boutique shop item?
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    If it does come out, Get me one! Sorry, get me two!!!

  16. #16
    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    474
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    198

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Who makes the sensor in the upcoming M-10? My guess would be Sony. If so then Sony has already developed a highly modified FF sensor that can accomodate RF lenses.
    Seems reasonable they might use this sensor, perhaps tweaked a bit, in one of their own cameras, i.e. the NEX.

  17. #17
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,128
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Certainly an interesting camera, the only thing I worry about is the native lenses:
    - Current E-mount lenses are all for a crop sensor
    - If they make it A-mount the registration distance becomes too large for rangefinder lenses

    And a Leica M killer, don't think so. Zorki, Canon, Nikon, Voigtlander, Zeiss and others have all produced bodies that could take Leica rangefinder lenses which didn't kill Leica M, so I don't see why a Sony body would suddenly achieve that.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    Who makes the sensor in the upcoming M-10? My guess would be Sony. If so then Sony has already developed a highly modified FF sensor that can accomodate RF lenses.
    Seems reasonable they might use this sensor, perhaps tweaked a bit, in one of their own cameras, i.e. the NEX.
    Excellent point, Arne! Although one could also say that whoever wants to make a compact FF camera that takes RF lenses can use the Kodak CCD that Leica use...

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    Who makes the sensor in the upcoming M-10? My guess would be Sony. If so then Sony has already developed a highly modified FF sensor that can accomodate RF lenses.
    Seems reasonable they might use this sensor, perhaps tweaked a bit, in one of their own cameras, i.e. the NEX.
    Who knows?

    It has been strongly suggested that Leica will source CMOS sensors for the M10 and upcoming S3 from a European company. Which is about as reliable as the existence of this FF Sony rumor.

    Also rumored that the M10 will have live view and an aux EFV.

    The M10 price is also rumored to be high enough to give detractors, complainers, and comparative addicts plenty of fodder to work with ... as usual

    So, I'm sure a Sony FF NEX type camera will be successful. Now, if only Sony had Zeiss make some tiny AF lenses for it ... that would be more interesting.

    It seems that Sony doesn't get the fact that they were successful with their ALPHA DSLRs because there are nice Zeiss AF lenses for it.

    Lenses are what interest me, not yet another digital body without any optimized AF lenses made for it.

    We'll see.

    -Marc

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    With respect, Marc, I am not sure that Sony's numbers tally with your comment. All interchangeable-lens cameras except semi-pro and pro models are used overwhelmingly with kit zooms. That does not contradict your lust for an optimized FF NEX+Zeiss, mirroring on a different level the excellent Sony RX 100, combining a very good Sony Exmor sensor with an also excellent Zeiss zoom. Just, that alone will not be enough to make a FF NEX a success...

  21. #21
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by philber View Post
    With respect, Marc, I am not sure that Sony's numbers tally with your comment. All interchangeable-lens cameras except semi-pro and pro models are used overwhelmingly with kit zooms. That does not contradict your lust for an optimized FF NEX+Zeiss, mirroring on a different level the excellent Sony RX 100, combining a very good Sony Exmor sensor with an also excellent Zeiss zoom. Just, that alone will not be enough to make a FF NEX a success...
    Yes, I should have qualified that to semi-pro, Pro and advanced enthusiasts camera success, specifically more in the arena of cameras that would interest folks that frequent forums like this. I had Zero interest in a Sony DSLR until they had a decent spread of AF Zeiss lenses and a FF sensor.

    There was an interesting thread on the DWF (Event, Wedding, Portrait and Boutique centric forum) where a pretty accomplished wedding/portrait shooter employed a NEX 7 along with his Nikons, and gave it a pretty good field test report ... mostly good and some bad. Raved about file quality and in some cases preferred it over his trusty Nikons, but the single biggest drawback was lack of high optical quality, fast AF lenses devoted to it.

    -Marc

  22. #22
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    I fell for the hype last year with the Fuji and Nex cameras of the year (and even the D800) is to some extent over sold. My reality (yours may differ) is that while huge improvements are being in made in new offerings ...I have not found a one that has the balance of RF focusing,small form and high quality lens that the M provides . Now that the post processing in LR has been refined and tuned over a few years .. it is possible to produce a superb rendering “routinely” .

    The only weakness in the M (if you want the CRF focusing ) is high ISO .. I hate quitting or not getting the desired results when ISO above 640-800 is required .

    My experience with the NEX 7 was not rewarding . I was hoping for the ability to use the 135 APO and focus peaking and maybe another EV of ISO performance (ISO1600 is the sweet spot for street shooting ). Focus peaking worked fine with a 50 summilux but at 135 wasn t fine enough (and the Leica glass has a very small throw near infinity ) . The files could t touch the M9 files and the camera handled like a consumer electronic ..not a serious camera . ISO performance didn t even match the CCD M . ( I do know how to work around these limitations but I was looking for an improvement overall ).

    The Fuji X Pro 1 ..didn t even make it a day . When testing the AF it just plan missed at 3ft ..put the focus point on a bottle and it was back focusing to the wall. Then the post processing conversions were awful because fuji wasn t cooperating with anyone to establish the raw conversions . This one I believe will get to be a good alternative but it wasn’t there at launch .

    Now I am not saying that as an alternative to an M ..where you spend the time to learn the system and refine your processing ..that you can t get great results from either the NEX or Fuji . And maybe if this is a 2nd system used for travel ,less demanding opportunities ..sure it can be great .

    The other consideration ..have you ever tried Sony s service . This is a consumer electronics company . My experience with their service is so bad I would throw away the product rather than dealing with them . Same for the Sony Store .

    Seems like many really liked the A900 and the Zeiss glass. Sony executives have been quoted many times about what a failure that camera was financially . Its about as popular inside Sony as the M5 was at Leica . A full frame DSLR with a large superb sensor for $3000 ....can t be done . That was the quote . D800?

    Of course this is just one photographers perspective but look at the track record . I will look hard at anything they produce with a FF sensor but my expectations have been tempered by my reality .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #23
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    That's certain...there is only one solution that uses RF focusing.

    A few comments...keep in mind, the Sony A900 was launched in Sept of 2008...sensor technology (and price points) have moved along at a very rapid pace since then, yet those sensors were excellent. So I'm not sure it's quite fair to compare it to the D800 (also a Sony sensor) that is 4 years newer. And if they did lose money, it's for a reason...they were trying to break the Nicanon juggernaut...

    I have used Sony service a few times, communication could have been better but the turnaround was quite good. Certainly far faster than Leica, where if you are making a living with the gear, you'll need at least two bodies...or more.

  24. #24
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    That's certain...there is only one solution that uses RF focusing.

    A few comments...keep in mind, the Sony A900 was launched in Sept of 2008...sensor technology (and price points) have moved along at a very rapid pace since then, yet those sensors were excellent. So I'm not sure it's quite fair to compare it to the D800 (also a Sony sensor) that is 4 years newer. And if they did lose money, it's for a reason...they were trying to break the Nicanon juggernaut...

    I have used Sony service a few times, communication could have been better but the turnaround was quite good. Certainly far faster than Leica, where if you are making a living with the gear, you'll need at least two bodies...or more.
    Yes Sony was trying to break into the professional /advanced amateur category with the A900 . But internally they were not happy with the results . The executive stated that they would never again try to build a camera with a mirror ..because they lost so much money on the A900. It was the body(mirror) costs not the sensor that was referenced as the problem . So they seem to have given up (maybe the A99 will convince us otherwise ) while Nikon forged ahead and introduced the D800 .

    Sony is as you might expect set up as a consumer electronics company with cameras as a product line . Products are introduced with life cycles of what a year and each new product is “marginally improved “ over the last model . Customer service and repair is set up like a consumer products company ..its simple or it gets replaced . Good luck if you ever try to have a lens repaired ?

    Fuji ..I believe is different . They want to recapture the prestige of producing high quality cameras and lenses . They have a legacy of producing great lenses for HB and commercial video and they certainly know color with great films and commercial printing products . Inside the company they are hugely proud of the Xpro 1 .

    I believe that Fuji will get to a good place and be respected by photographers and I don t see Sony putting in place anything that says ..we want to be known for our photographic equipment . Sony is focused on the middle tier of the market (price ) and compete based on features and specifications .

  25. #25
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Every electronic product has a definite life cycle. It is a fact.

    If one NEX-7 is broken (no fault of its own), I can live with that loss. The replacement NEX-7, if it keeps clicking for another year, that is just fabulous.

    However, if it is a high ticket item, I will not feel that way. I may not even feel like taking it out on the streets either.

    Every E lens I bought here has 5 year warranty. Even if they self destruct, not a big monetary loss. They are replaceable.

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Roger I think your analysis is spot on. Sony would have to restructure corporate thinking if they want to challenge Canikon; that won't happen.

  27. #27
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Every electronic product has a definite life cycle. It is a fact.

    If one NEX-7 is broken (no fault of its own), I can live with that loss. The replacement NEX-7, if it keeps clicking for another year, that is just fabulous.

    However, if it is a high ticket item, I will not feel that way. I may not even feel like taking it out on the streets either.

    Every E lens I bought here has 5 year warranty. Even if they self destruct, not a big monetary loss. They are replaceable.
    Yes ...but you will be shooting with the Nex 7 ..not a Leica M . Nothing wrong with that but they are not comparable experiences . (keep in mind I didn t start a thread labeled the Leica killer ).

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    645
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Time for a full frame 18 mp, high ISO capable -------------- Epson.

  29. #29
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,265
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    There will not be a full frame NEX in the foreseeable future.

    EDIT: I just spoke to the right person. Something is coming, not specifically NEX, and not this year, but it is coming.

  30. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Gawd, not another camera..what will I tell the wife???!
    Does she know what they all look like? Sell one and replace it with the FF NEX (If it comes). Job done

    I'm not after a Lecia M killer. I'm after a cheaper FF compact ILC. If Sony make I will buy it. If Ford make it I will buy it. If Burger King make it I will buy it. I don't really care who makes it. As long as it has decent controls like the NEX 7, the ability to mount M lenses and a FF sensor I am sold already. Someone take my money!
    Ben
    Perth, Australia
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  31. #31
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by bcm View Post
    Does she know what they all look like? Sell one and replace it with the FF NEX (If it comes). Job done

    I'm not after a Lecia M killer. I'm after a cheaper FF compact ILC. If Sony make I will buy it. If Ford make it I will buy it. If Burger King make it I will buy it. I don't really care who makes it. As long as it has decent controls like the NEX 7, the ability to mount M lenses and a FF sensor I am sold already. Someone take my money!
    When a mirrorless FF (or larger format) camera (true live view and no mechanical mess) comes out (regardless of the brand or maker), I am willing to pay more just because of the versatility and convenience.

  32. #32
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    Time for a full frame 18 mp, high ISO capable -------------- Epson.
    Epson was a "Leica Starter" not a "Leica Killer" Mikal. Funny how the appearance of the RD-1 got Leica in gear

    -Marc

  33. #33
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    Time for a full frame 18 mp, high ISO capable -------------- Epson.
    Epson would still supply EVFs for certain makers.

  34. #34
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Yes ...but you will be shooting with the Nex 7 ..not a Leica M . Nothing wrong with that but they are not comparable experiences . (keep in mind I didn t start a thread labeled the Leica killer ).
    Legends never die. Only the more versatile and useful gear become more widely used.

    Leica will live forever in some form or other!

  35. #35
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,128
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek
    Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Leica will live forever in some form or other!
    Question answered

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Roger I think your analysis is spot on. Sony would have to restructure corporate thinking if they want to challenge Canikon; that won't happen.
    Someone forgot to send that memo to Sony ...

    Strategy behind Sony A99 DSLR revealed | Electronista

    Of additional interest is the part that says the impending FF A99 with heightened video ability will be followed by a "Photo Focused" version in 2013.

    The notion of a FF NEX seems a reasonable prediction given that Sony tends use one sensor in different cameras. Excellent news for those who like that sort of thing. I'm not a fan. Like Roger, I went along with the hoopla, and wasted some cash trying a few e-era cameras.

    Personally, I prefer a rangefinder, and 18 meg FF CCD is fine ... upon careful analysis of my own needs and expectations, I almost never use M color in low light (film or digital), so I'm more a candidate for the higher ISO M Monochrome to supplement my M9P.

    GetDpi needs a "Dinosaur" imacon

    -Marc
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    That Dinosaur imacon sure would come in handy with the link you posted; that's just weeks old re-written SAR-gossip.

    Anyway, this whole SAR hysteria on all the Sony forums seems to be getting out of hand. Lot's of people believe eveything they read there and blame Sony for 'postponing' gear that was never officialy announced by Sony in the first place... I will confess though that I take a peek there everyday...

    Still, calling this a Leica killer seems out of place. I like Leica as a company and as an 'idea'. I hope they'll do well in the future.*

    As for the NEX FF, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm not holding my breath, happily shooting with the outstanding NEX 7 with A and E mount glass.

  38. #38
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Someone forgot to send that memo to Sony ...

    Strategy behind Sony A99 DSLR revealed | Electronista

    Of additional interest is the part that says the impending FF A99 with heightened video ability will be followed by a "Photo Focused" version in 2013.

    The notion of a FF NEX seems a reasonable prediction given that Sony tends use one sensor in different cameras. Excellent news for those who like that sort of thing. I'm not a fan. Like Roger, I went along with the hoopla, and wasted some cash trying a few e-era cameras.

    Personally, I prefer a rangefinder, and 18 meg FF CCD is fine ... upon careful analysis of my own needs and expectations, I almost never use M color in low light (film or digital), so I'm more a candidate for the higher ISO M Monochrome to supplement my M9P.

    GetDpi needs a "Dinosaur" imacon

    -Marc
    Well you got the goods on me with the 8/9 press release . Those are the right words but not consistent with what they have actually delivered ..so I am skeptical . How did they let Nikon get a 6-12 month lead on them with the D800? With Sony sometimes the marketing comes from California vs Tokyo. Conceded that Sony has changed their tune ..lets hope they get it right . I look forward to seeing what they come out with .

    What professional market are they speaking about ? I completely get the wedding side where the key requirement is generating pleasing results (color) with a minimum of fuss. But I don t expect Sony to make a dent in Photojournalism ,Sports against Canon and Nikon .

    The other observation would be ..."EVF really ..you can t be serious “ ! I thought photography required actually seeing the subject .

    As I down my Expresso ...I wondered ...why do these Leica , MF killer threads bother me ? I guess its because I don t need or want “better,faster,cheaper “ ...as the consumer electronics companies are eating up the entry level equipment (based on mostly irrelevant features and functions ) ...they take away from the pure camera companies (legends OK ) and in turn Nikon s D800 has knocked the starch out of the “new adopters” of MF . This slows the adoption of new technologies by the “camera “ companies . This is what killed the Leica R and is killing the MF business. Inevitable ..maybe . (sorry this is a topic for another day ).

  39. #39
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    "Pure camera companies"

    Are there any (small format ones) in this world?

  40. #40
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    "Pure camera companies"

    Are there any (small format ones) in this world?
    Surely you didn t miss the point . Sony,Panasonic and Samsung are enormous consumer and commercial electronics companies . Product and service decisions are driven by corporate allocations and directives . Their expertise is in electronics . They can muscle their way into the market for sure and you can t deny their expertise in sensor design and manufacture .

    Companies like Leica,HB,Nikon etc live and die based on the performance of their photographic products . Olympus ,Canon and Ricoh/Pentax are large conglomerates but still retain autonomous camera businesses . Fuji is a large conglomerate....but with a proud legacy in photography .

    There is no doubt some overlap in business practices as they are competing in the same space . I would prefer to see a lot more products like the Fuji X Pro 1 and the Olympus Om D ...with great new lenses and a vision for a complete system . In my view they are committed to the top end of the market and less focused on being $100 cheaper at Best Buy .

    Not saying that any of them are “bad” just that they are different and the consumer electronics approach does t work for me .

  41. #41
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Well you got the goods on me with the 8/9 press release . Those are the right words but not consistent with what they have actually delivered ..so I am skeptical . How did they let Nikon get a 6-12 month lead on them with the D800? With Sony sometimes the marketing comes from California vs Tokyo. Conceded that Sony has changed their tune ..lets hope they get it right . I look forward to seeing what they come out with .

    What professional market are they speaking about ? I completely get the wedding side where the key requirement is generating pleasing results (color) with a minimum of fuss. But I don t expect Sony to make a dent in Photojournalism ,Sports against Canon and Nikon .

    The other observation would be ..."EVF really ..you can't be serious “ ! I thought photography required actually seeing the subject .

    As I down my Expresso ...I wondered ...why do these Leica , MF killer threads bother me ? I guess its because I don t need or want “better,faster,cheaper “ ...as the consumer electronics companies are eating up the entry level equipment (based on mostly irrelevant features and functions ) ...they take away from the pure camera companies (legends OK ) and in turn Nikon s D800 has knocked the starch out of the “new adopters” of MF . This slows the adoption of new technologies by the “camera “ companies . This is what killed the Leica R and is killing the MF business. Inevitable ..maybe . (sorry this is a topic for another day ).
    I'm not too worried Roger. As I said, reports of "death" are almost always premature or false. They may be dead to some, but not all ... be it Leica or MFD.

    The R system was a tough decision on Leica's part, but it was a money sapping proposition for Leica. A friend was in a meeting at Leica where the R came up, and one of the executives quipped that the minute they stopped the R line, Leica started making money.

    Leica's newer positioning and retail strategy basically doesn't care what Sony, Nikon, Canon or anyone else does. It says so in their corporate strategy.

    The Sony A99 is indeed aimed at event, wedding and portrait shooters, not sports or Journalism photographers. That it is specifically targeting the 5D-III is also clear indication of that. Sony has a way of stepping their conquest of markets.

    Personally, I'm not a fan of video games, or cameras that act like one. So the A900 may be my last Sony. We'll see.

    -Marc

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Roger, the photographic side of Nikon is a minority business for them, the bulk coming from semi-conductor manufacturing equipment. Nikon also has strategic ties with the Mitsubishi Group, so I wouldn't classify them as a photography "pure player", a la Leica or Hasselblad.

  43. #43
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Wow, yet another camera. Don't camera companies have anything better to do but make cameras? Don't photographers have anything better to do than go shopping?

    I actually have a a really great camera that lets me do really great work. How does a new camera change that?

    But it has been an exciting year. This will be the third M killer in recent memory and the second from Sony. We had the MFD killer from Nikon. I am just waiting for the Hipstamatic killer.

  44. #44
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I am just waiting for the Hipstamatic killer.
    Please, oh Please!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  45. #45
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    What is Hipstacmatic? Is it made by a "pure camera" company?

  46. #46
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    What is Hipstacmatic? Is it made by a "pure camera" company?
    Made by the three largest camera companies in the world--Apple, Nokia, and Samsung.

  47. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Interesting article by David Kilpatrick (authority on Alpha line) about the possibility of a FF NEX:

    Will there be a full-frame NEX? | Photoclubalpha

  48. #48
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Someone forgot to send that memo to Sony ...
    They had the same strategy with the A900. How well did that work out? Maybe they fell for their own 'make.believe' motto. It's not as simple as 'if you make it, they will come.' A serious pro who uses Nikon or Canon is getting more than just hardware.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    447
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by philber View Post
    Roger, the photographic side of Nikon is a minority business for them, the bulk coming from semi-conductor manufacturing equipment.
    This has not been true for years. For the last three fiscal years, the proportion of Nikon sales attributable to the imaging products segment has been:

    FY 2010 72.5%
    FY 2011 67.2%
    FY 2012 63.9%

    (source: Nikon annual reports)

    This decline in share for the imaging products segment reflects a rebound from a severe slump in the precision equipment segment; the FY2012 share for imaging products is also depressed by the effects of the earthquake in Japan and flooding in Thailand.

    Nikon is not a photography "pure player". But the imaging products segment is now consistently the largest part of its business.
    Last edited by Oren Grad; 19th August 2012 at 12:29.

  50. #50
    Senior Member Taylor Sherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    390
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sony NEX: Is a Leica M killer on the horizon?

    So - sounds like the hybrid camera is coming. Rather than "adapters" let's say it uses interchangeable mounts - one for E, one for A, one for ? perhaps.

    Mirrorless. On-sensor PDAF. E-mount lenses auto-select an APS-C crop, A-mount full 24x36 frame.

    I do wonder about the whole "square format" rumors from a few months ago, but I can't really fit that in here. Even making it so E-mount let you shoot square wouldn't work since the E-mount lenses all have 3x2 "windows" in the back. Anyway, I'll ignore this for now.

    So - body size. Why make a mirrorless that's SLR-sized? But it depends on where they market this camera. I could see it being as big as the smaller Alphas, if it's aimed at the pros. But then I'm not sure why the compat with E-mount lenses. So I can only hope it's more like a Nex-7++. But, the "it will not be a Nex" proclamations make me lean towards something a bit larger.

    Sensor. I think many people would be happy with 24 or maybe 36Mp at FF, and 12-16 Mp at crop. I wouldn't be at all surprised though if this thing had essentially the same density as the Nex-7, so 24Mp at crop, 48 Mp at full-frame.

    So I know nothing, just speculating :-) and drooling over the idea of a 48Mp full-frame back for the 2/24 Distagon ZA :-D

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •