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Thread: Sony RX1

  1. #151
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Some interest in this camera until I discovered that it doesn't have a sync port ... so the 1/2000 leaf shutter sync is basically useless.

    Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.

    -Marc

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Some interest in this camera until I discovered that it doesn't have a sync port ... so the 1/2000 leaf shutter sync is basically useless.

    Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.

    -Marc
    Sony is business as usual, use more Sony products! So I'm guessing use with other Sony flash units rather than pro lighting gear!
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Some interest in this camera until I discovered that it doesn't have a sync port ... so the 1/2000 leaf shutter sync is basically useless.

    Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.

    -Marc
    Seriously, Marc? You mean I could not slip a wireless remote in the hot shoe? I really did not know you were interested.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Some interest in this camera until I discovered that it doesn't have a sync port ... so the 1/2000 leaf shutter sync is basically useless.

    Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.

    -Marc
    IIRC 1/4000s now with changed spec.

    N
    A and E mount Too many lenses.

  5. #155
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Seriously, Marc? You mean I could not slip a wireless remote in the hot shoe? I really did not know you were interested.
    Yes, initial mild interest because I use 35mm field-of-view a lot, and use strobes quite often with sync speeds to 1/750th or 1/800th on the Leica S2 and H4D/60. Plus, this little guy would be an interesting companion/emergency back-up to a A900 or A99 especially with an AF Zeiss 35mm prime which currently doesn't exist in the Alpha mount.

    The feature that really caught my eye was the 1/2000th sync speed, which is pretty unique and highly desirable when coupled with a f/2 lens.

    Unfortunately, most radio transmitters top out at 1/250 with focal plane shutter cameras, 1/500th with leaf shutters ... some like Profoto AIR go higher (1/1000th in fast mode depending on camera and uniquely 1/1,600th on the Phase DF), but none that I know of go to 1/2000th.

    Depending on the strobe unit used and t.1 flash duration at any given setting, all sync speeds are available when hard wired.

    The best radio for a camera this size is the tiny Microsync VM2T which tops out at 1/200th with focal plane and 1/350th with leaf-shutter cameras. Hardly 1/2000th

    Plus, with the EFV or analog finder in the hot shoe, there is no way to trigger a strobe or off-camera speed-light other than optically using the wimpy pop-up.

    This Sony seems to only work with their wireless remote/speed-light ... which is all but useless at any longer distance, or in bright outdoor conditions where 1/2000th would be most useful. How the leaf-shutter works with their speed-lights remains to be seen. Imagine holding this little camera at arm's length to view the LCD, with their new HVL60 in the hot-shoe

    For a great amount of my mobile strobe work I use a TTL speed-light in the hot shoe for fill with a radio sender hardwired to the camera on a grip bracket to trigger the key strobe light. More importantly, I ALWAYS carry a standard sync cord as back-up to any radio system, and trust me have had to use them.

    I had the same gripe about the M9, however, the new Leica M will accommodate this mobile configuration using the new multifunction grip which has a standard sync port ... and it has a way to shoot with camera to eye ... the rangefinder.

    For almost $3K they could have put in a crummy little sync port ... IMHO.

    -Marc
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  6. #156
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by BackToSlr View Post
    IIRC 1/4000s now with changed spec.

    N
    Using what?

    Is that 1/4000th top shutter speed with full leaf-shutter sync?

    I guess you could put a sync trigger in the hot-shoe and hard-wire to the generator.

    -Marc

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Sync speed is not a product of the transmitter, but the shutter and strobes. And 1/4000s is the leaf shutter sync at smaller apertures.

    And for $10 you can use the OVF and a sync cable:

    General Brand Hot Shoe to PC Adapter SF943 B&H Photo Video

    What I find really interesting is not that this camera will not suit every photographer, but the way photographers dismiss equipment in blanket terms as rubbish including a nice jab to insult the people that make these things. Perhaps I have just had more experience with different camera types and can use cameras for their advantage and know that there is no such thing as a limited tool. You probably think that a camera like an Alpa TC is just over priced junk because it is a limited system, but there are plenty of photographers that can use a single lens TC setup and produce a widely various body of work. The Alpa TC is no more half-baked than an RX1. And if an RX1 is half baked, then so is an X2, X100, Hexar AF, 35Ti, and a whole host of highly regarded cameras.

    And given your defense of the Leica S2 system when the D800 came out, your comments on the camera being half baked and its price are more mystifying.
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  8. #158
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Sync speed is not a product of the transmitter, but the shutter and strobes. And 1/4000s is the leaf shutter sync at smaller apertures.

    And for $10 you can use the OVF and a sync cable:

    General Brand Hot Shoe to PC Adapter SF943 B&H Photo Video

    What I find really interesting is not that this camera will not suit every photographer, but the way photographers dismiss equipment in blanket terms as rubbish including a nice jab to insult the people that make these things. Perhaps I have just had more experience with different camera types and can use cameras for their advantage and know that there is no such thing as a limited tool. You probably think that a camera like an Alpa TC is just over priced junk because it is a limited system, but there are plenty of photographers that can use a single lens TC setup and produce a widely various body of work. The Alpa TC is no more half-baked than an RX1. And if an RX1 is half baked, then so is an X2, X100, Hexar AF, 35Ti, and a whole host of highly regarded cameras.

    And given your defense of the Leica S2 system when the D800 came out, your comments on the camera being half baked are more mystifying.
    Never said it was rubbish, not even once ... and no need to take anything so personally, and then get personal with someone that doesn't think the camera is God's gift ... based on their clearly stated reasons and use. These days I feel any camera without a sync port is not complete and partially crippled. For me "half baked", and for you it may not be.

    I'd double check your statement regarding transmitters, there are different limitations with various radio transmitters, and each manufacturer publishes their maximum sync speed which remains consistent whether used with a leaf shutter lens featuring maximum speeds of 1/500th or 1/1000th or 1/2000th.

    The adapter you linked to is a dumb hot-shoe with a PC port ... not suitable for the way I prefer working mobile using a TTL on-camera flash for fill and strobes for key ... also not sure how one would use the OVF on top of that adapter anyway as the framing would then be off.

    Hopefully, a third party radio company will make a pass through TTL transmitter configured for the new Sony hot-shoe and include a PC port ... something I currently use with the A900.

    -Marc

    P.S., still do not like the Nikon look and feel, which has little to do with liking the S2 look and feel.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.
    That does not sound like praise.

    I am not taking this personally, I am just really confused by the harsh dismissive comments about this camera. I find it a little sad that photographers as a group seem very divisive.

  10. #160
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Not to disrupt the current theme but I just ran across this interesting post. You may need to scroll down to find it.

    'Here is the RX1 35mm Zeiss lens resolution chart.'

    credit source: sonyalpharumors
    Last edited by Dan Ortego; 7th October 2012 at 10:34.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    One has to be careful before reading too much into this, because Zeiss MTF charts are actual (from measurements), whereas the ones Sony publishes are computed, like Canon's and Nikon's. And, guess what? the computed ones look better. So it remains to be seen whether the Zeiss MTF for this lens emanates from Zeiss and is actually measured, or from Sony and is computed. But, if it shows that the new lens supasses the ZM 35 f:2.0, it is very promising indeed

  12. #162
    Member Dan Ortego's Avatar
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    Re: Sony RX1

    That makes sense as the linked article reads 'The Sony Hong Kong RX1 Press Release contains an interesting MTF resolution chart' and there is no reference to the chart on the Zeiss website. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    That does not sound like praise.

    I am not taking this personally, I am just really confused by the harsh dismissive comments about this camera. I find it a little sad that photographers as a group seem very divisive.
    Point taken ...

    I think people get a bit picky when there are so many things thrown at them in a short amount of time.

    I was interested in this camera because of the leaf shutter lens, until discovering it had no sync port ... which is irritating in an already limited camera this expensive.

    I'll tell you one thing, if we don't scrutinize the gear, no one will. The manufacturers sure aren't going to point out any short-comings.

    -Marc

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    I'll tell you one thing, if we don't scrutinize the gear, no one will. The manufacturers sure aren't going to point out any short-comings.

    -Marc
    Definitely not the testers on the blogs.

    Half baked is the term!

  15. #165
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    Re: Sony RX1

    For what it's worth there are some fairly decent and updated samples posted over on DPR and from Steve Huff.
    Last edited by Dan Ortego; 9th October 2012 at 11:02. Reason: added content

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Some getdpi veterans have preordered this Cybershot. We will get to see some real samples soon.

    The samples posted thusfar just raise questions as to the effectiveness of this as a camera.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    All the samples posted have shown this to be a good camera. Certainly no worse than any other camera being manufactured today.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    I am disappointed with the samples posted by the 3 bloggers. I thought the Sony samples looked more promising, and, considering the usually low quality of PR samples on pre-produciton cams, expected the independent pics to be better.
    Now I will have to wait for RAWs from final products to form an opinion. I have one on pre-order.
    Last edited by philber; 10th October 2012 at 01:15.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    At Phoblographer there is an unscientific comparison with the A99, 5D MKII and the RX1, although the latter is only JPG.

    What stroke me is the distortion of the lens. Not so good!


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    Re: Sony RX1

    5 Aspheric surfaces in the lens. It would have been far easier if Sony had designed a better sensor (the "largest sensor maker in the world"! ) with offset microlenses or even a fiberoptic faceplate. Both old technologies.
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Yes, I too was surprised by the level of distortion in the cityscape photo in the Steve Huff sample(s). DxO Pro 7 currently does a great job of handling this so perhaps they will write a routine for the RX1. Aside from that I'm still impressed, so hopefully Sony will tweak things a bit to address this.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It would have been far easier if Sony had designed a better sensor (the "largest sensor maker in the world"! ) with offset microlenses or even a fiberoptic faceplate. Both old technologies.
    How does that correct for barrel distortion?

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ortego View Post
    Yes, I too was surprised by the level of distortion in the cityscape photo in the Steve Huff sample(s). DxO Pro 7 currently does a great job of handling this so perhaps they will write a routine for the RX1. Aside from that I'm still impressed, so hopefully Sony will tweak things a bit to address this.
    Like all manufacturers, they will most likely release a lens profile to correct for this. Many lenses exhibit some kind of distortion like the Canon lens in the photoblogger test.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    How does that correct for barrel distortion?
    Why would you make up stuff which isn't there?

    As far as I know, you have no interest in buying or using Sony cams. What is your interest here campaigning for a camera that you would never use?

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Guys, guys, I read Shashin's question as an open one, IMO no harm done. I've been closely following the RX1, and like Michiel and Dan, I noticed it too and frankly, it surprised me. With all the buzz going on about this Zeiss being made just right for this camera it makes me doubtful. Software correction is fine and all, but I didn't expect this kind of distortion. CA seems fine, or perhaps they already implemented correction for that in the firmware.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Hi Vivek, do you think the 5 Aspheric surfaces have some bad influence on the distortion? And do you think the sensor is not as good as we're led to believe? Thanks, Peter

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Just found this about the lens distortion:

    Live from the Sony Event..more samples from RX1, NEX-6 and A99! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

    Steve Huff writes:

    NOTE: By default the RX1 has the Lens Distortion Correction turned OFF. My 1st samples showed some distortion due to this. I now have it turned on which eliminates all distortion. Also, these have all been JPEGs and I expect the quality to get even better when I can process RAW files and have final firmware.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Just for info this camera is at 3199.99 on pre-order at Sony France site while
    for Sony USA on pre-order it is $2799.99 .....big difference (14%) for an already very expensive toy.

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    Sony RX1


    adjust for the currency difference on those price examples and the price difference is about ~ 48 %

    at the moment 3200 EUR equals about ~ 4150 USD

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    adjust for the currency difference on those price examples and the price difference is about ~ 48 %

    at the moment 3200 EUR equals about ~ 4150 USD
    It is the same old song again. Just plain ridiculous!

    Michiel

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why would you make up stuff which isn't there?

    As far as I know, you have no interest in buying or using Sony cams. What is your interest here campaigning for a camera that you would never use?
    I thought your comment was related to the previous post about the barrel distortion.

    Still, I don't think it is a waste of time making good optics. The image is really produced there. And you can elevate some of the reasons for putting offset micro lenses on the sensor. Actually, how old a technology is is neither here nor there. What matters is the end result. Just putting in technology in a camera because it is new is rather pointless.

    This is called a conversation. People can join it and add to it. Just as you seem to like to trash this camera. Actually, you have no idea my intent about this camera--since you did bring up the topic of making things up, I thought I would point this out.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Yeah, the distortion and all those dumb asph elements, what could they possibly be thinking...what dopes. I bet they use this idea, note encoded in RAW:

    'It turns out that the RX-100 is not the only camera to do this - other high-end cameras have been doing it for years. Every single Hasselblad H-series body (those with a dedicated digital back) corrects for its 28mm f/4 lens this way, as has Phase One. And that Leica S system? Yup. All the lenses are imperfect and corrected digitally.'

    The Friedman Archives Blog: The Most Distortion-Ridden Zeiss Lens Ever (and Why You Won’t Notice It)

    Huff says its better than just about anything at high ISO, incl the 5D2. Summicron standard, says Lloyd Chambers, is what he expects. Me too. The pre-release images look georgeous. YMMV, of course.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    I was under the impression that resolution and contrast degrade when pixels are moved around by software. I wonder what the measured MTF's would look like and how bad for the final IQ the software lens correction really is?
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Despite having had exclusive access (of some of the 11 existing samples), there is a healthy dose of criticism on what the RX1 does not offer:

    EXCLUSIVE Sony RX1 1st look with accessories, video and image samples! - YouTube
    (He did not use the pop up flash in the camera. I am yet to see anyone having used the pop up or how one can use the expensive EVF and an external microphone while video shooting.)

    There is absolutely no point in comparing Leica Summicrons to the Zeiss 35/2 fused to the Sony sensor in the RX-1.

  35. #185
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Sony missed a big one when they opted to not put Steady Shot Stabilization in this camera.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    adjust for the currency difference on those price examples and the price difference is about ~ 48 %

    at the moment 3200 EUR equals about ~ 4150 USD
    Yes Steen, I realized that after publishing, thanks for the correction.

  37. #187
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    Re: Sony RX1

    Hi Vivek,
    Thanks for the video link although Steve was apparently mistaken with the USA price for the EVF. It's currently listed on the SonyStyle Store at $449 whereas the OVF is listed at $599. Sure, they're both pricy but still. I was disappointed the 'Thumbs Up' grip isn't hot for use with the EVF but maybe that will come later.
    Last edited by Dan Ortego; 15th October 2012 at 12:07.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    I am not sure about the VF prices, Dan. But, that (and the price of the RX-1) is a moot point given the limitations of the camera itself.

  39. #189
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    Re: Sony RX1

    I found this link over on SAR for the RX1 Manual for anyone who may be interested. Not sure if it’s the most current version with those last minute changes but still.

    http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/4443124111.pdf

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Thanks, Dan.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    A link to the Sony Japan RX1 site showing a gallery of images from a Japanese photographer Ozawa Chukyo:

    DSC-RX1 ƒXƒyƒVƒƒƒ‹ƒTƒCƒg - ONE HAND, FULL SIZE. | ƒfƒWƒ^ƒ‹ƒXƒ`ƒ‹ƒJƒƒ‰ Cyber-shot gƒTƒCƒo[ƒVƒ‡ƒbƒgh | ƒ\ƒj[

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    Re: Sony RX1

    This was a camera I wanted to see at Photo Plus and I learned a few things that might be useful . I ve found that "feel "is very important to me in the cameras I enjoy . I use the various test sites and ultimately my own tests to evaluate IQ and usability in the field . But if it doesn t feel right and the viewing isn t natural I ve learned to move on . So I was really looking forward to getting my hands on this camera .

    The RX1 has all the build quality I expected and the feel is extraordinary . The display camera came with the Zeiss 35mm optical finder and the thumbs up . It had the look and feel of a slightly smaller M body . The Zeiss OVF was brilliant . This is a camera I would want to carry .

    For street shooting I ve often gone to preseting the lens to a specific distance .. F8 and 8 ft works very well in good light . What I would miss with the the RX1 is some indication of approximate distance . On a Fuji x100 I would use the AF on the rear button and pick a spot to establish focus . I remember on the Leica X1 that the AF green dot was visible reflected into the OVF . Not perfect but adequate for street and most travel . When using the RX1 with the OVF ..you have no indication of focus confirmation . Ops ?

    I asked about how you would use the OVF without FC ....the answer was telling. "We hope to have that in the RX2" .

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    Re: Sony RX1

    I look forward to the rx2 with a built in EVF.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Roger, not really knowing the camera that well, I expect I can do those the same way I do it with an e-p1. To set a distance, simply have the AF put on the control or function button and use an object in the scene to set the distance while the camera is MF. Then simply shoot away. As far as using an OVF, with a center AF point set, it is easy to judge the center of the frame in the finder. I would expect the AF accuracy to be better in the RX1, but the ep1 AF is fine for that already.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    I have one on order and am anxiously awaiting its delivery.
    V/r John

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Sony RX1


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    I look forward to the rx2 with a built in EVF.


    ... and interchangeable lenses, right ?

    That would make it look like the up to date and full featured, high-end mirrorless system of tomorrow.

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post




    ... and interchangeable lenses, right ?

    That would make it look like the up to date and full featured, high-end mirrorless system of tomorrow.
    Just like a Leica M . . . but slightly smaller. . . . and with AF . . . .

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Sony RX1


    exactly, Jono, that would be a game changer

    and both Leica and Sony are strong contenders in getting there first if they want, because they are so close already

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    exactly, Jono, that would be a game changer

    and both Leica and Sony are strong contenders in getting there first if they want, because they are so close already
    Well - I really can't see Leica developing a range of full frame AF lenses anytime soon - they can't make enough of the M lenses as it is. Added to which it would simply be making competition for the M.
    Judging by the speed Sony have managed to introduce lenses for the E system and the A system they might find it a problem as well.

    If you need AF on such a full frame interchangeable lens camera, then I think you might have a long wait on your hands. If you don't, then I think the camera will be shipping in January - with the ability to use literally thousands of excellent lenses from Leica and Zeiss and Olympus and Pentax. Fixed focal length and zooms . . . . just no AF!

    all the best

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    Re: Sony RX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    exactly, Jono, that would be a game changer
    ..and might make it to the Time list of best 50 "innovations" in 2013.

    I am frankly sick of SOny introducting half baked products and then slightly better baked products following them in a short time.

    The NEX-7 will be replaced in early 2013, according to rumors.

    If sony do not release any lenses of the current caliber, I would be happy too.

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