Sony RX1

[jsnack]

Wait a year and you could probably pick one of these up for less than $1000.00. By then the full-frame NEX will be announced.

 

[Shashin]

will the Leica 35mm external viewfinder work? can we turn off LCD? isn't we need optical vf only for perspective?
I guess it's too soon to know since no one have it yet
if so, I can use mine without buying one.'
and I did preorder one at Amazon
Sonny

It just need to match the FoV. So if it is design for a 35mm lens on a 35mm body or for a smaller sensor camera with an equivalent focal length of a 35mm on a 35mm body, then it will work.

You don't need to even buy the Zeiss/Sony OVF, you can use the Voightlander 35mm OVF or did up an old one of ebay.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

will the Leica 35mm external viewfinder work? can we turn off LCD? isn't we need optical vf only for perspective?
I guess it's too soon to know since no one have it yet
if so, I can use mine without buying one.'
and I did preorder one at Amazon
Sonny

But how to check focus? Zone focusing with 24MP 35mm sensor and f/2.0 isn't a combination that I would trust for photos to be sharp where I want them sharp.

I would go as far as saying that 24MP without a very good viewfinder is totally pointless. Resolutionwise, we are into what only a few years ago was MF territory. There's a reason why Hasselblad deliver cameras with a viewfinder included in the price.

 

[douglasf13]

For street shooting at f8, the OVF would be ok, but I'd buy the EVF.

 

[mazor]

I have mixed feelings about the EVF. I had the same on my 5N, and I loved the tilt feature, but it didn't exactly inspire confidence in its build when banging it around on things. I've seen threads where the frame around the eyepiece broke off.

If this RX1 had a 50mm-ish lens, and maybe a tilt LCD, I'd blow the money on it, but there is a combination of little things missing from it that are keeping me from spending the money.

Yes the EVF, although nice to be external as it means it can articulate from horizontal to vertical, can be a weakness, but on saying that my EVF stays mounted on my 5n permanently, and it gets quite a bit of abuse in my bag, and has not broken or failed yet. What has happened is the Eye cup has fallen, never broken off as the clip holding it to the EVF is all not that strong or tight. I am on my second eyecup, as the last one got lost during some street shooting.

Is it possible that Sony may release a high quality telelconverter adapter similar to the the nex 16mm pancake adapters, that could make the 35mm f2.0 into a 50mm 2.8?

 

[mazor]

A leaf shutter is good. Beside being quiet would allow for very high flash sync shutter speeds. However, with the EVF port and the flash shoe in one place, it is half baked at best.

Agree, I think going leaf shutter is a good move. Like you said quiet, and having flash sync for internal flash up to 1/2000 is indeed impressive. The only other camera I own that can do this kind of flash sync is the Panasonic LX3.

I read using an external flash via the hot shoe cannot take advantage of this high flash sync. The nex 5n with hotshoe adapter can flash syn 1/320, the nex7 built in hot shoe can only muster 1/160.

By putting the EVF on the hot shoe, the EVF position mimicks a DLR type stance where the viewfinder is directly above the lens. Some people prefer this over having a EVF on the side, rangefinder style.

 

[mazor]

I really believe Fuji has done a great job with their IL system and lenses. They are very high quality glass and their sensor is amazing, and certainly challenges that of full frame offerings for handling noise, if not for the DOF part. However, they offer very fast apertures which makes up for it.

Fuji offers in all their cameras to date a great EVF solution built into the cameras!

absolutely agree, the whole full frame better quality is only limited by technology. As time goes on, improved powerful processor and sensor designs will allow higher density sensor that are smaller and have excellent signal to noise, like the Fuji X tran sensor.

Not sure if Fuji lens are quite fast enough to outweigh full frame yet. They really have to release some 0.95 aperture lens to compete against the likes of 1.4 type lens available on full frame cameras.

 

[mazor]

The problem is, by introducing Trans-X, you sacrifice low ISO chroma resolution for great high ISO performance. It is a trade off, and it leaves aliasing, color artifacts and chroma smoothing at lower ISO, even with the current "best" raw converter for Trans-X, RPP. When all of the raw converter kinks are worked out, and advanced algorithms are used, the sensor still won't be able to get close to the bayer chroma resolution.

The Trans-X might compete at high ISO with the RX1...might, but the RX1 will be much better at low to mid ISO. As someone who shoots most of the time under ISO 1600, I'd pick any of the NEX sensors over the Trans-X, let alone the RX1's sensor. If I was a frequent high ISO shooter, I'd likely go Trans-X. Pick your poison.

wow, very informative. did not realize that much aliasing on the xtrans sensor.It really defeats having an x-tran sensor if the aliasing is not reduced or eliminated. One may as well just do what Leica did and use conventional bayer and omit the AA filter in favour of software correction.

 

[douglasf13]

wow, very informative. did not realize that much aliasing on the xtrans sensor.It really defeats having an x-tran sensor if the aliasing is not reduced or eliminated. One may as well just do what Leica did and use conventional bayer and omit the AA filter in favour of software correction.

Keep in mind that there is less aliasing with Adobe raw converter or the in-camera jpegs, but then you get the smoothing that many shooters complain about, especially in the green things like foliage. RPP seems to be the favorite for the sensor, right now, because it doesn't have as much of the water color effect.

The sensor will do much better if the raw converter companies implement much more processor intensive algorithms, but it seems they're going with just good enough right now. I'd imagine Andrey at RPP will take the best stab at it.

However, even if great conversion happens, it still will have less chroma resolution than a normal Bayer sensor in good light. It does do great in lowlight, though, so it's a trade off.

Better explanation than I can provide here: X-Pro 1 tested by Pop Photo - FM Forums

 

[monza]

Yes but in fairness to the D600 you have the option of choosing many lenses and you get a VF. Once you add the EVF then they're roughly the same price without the versatility.

True, but both cameras have advantages the other lacks...just pointing out the price is basically fair.

 

[iiiNelson]

True, but both cameras have advantages the other lacks...just pointing out the price is basically fair.

Probably so for some. I've always stayed away from cameras like they personally. I just expect versatility when spending the coin but it's apples, oranges, and all kinds of fruits in these comparisons.

 

[Vivek]

Wait a year and you could probably pick one of these up for less than $1000.00. By then the full-frame NEX will be announced.

Will not happen. You should check out the used prices of 5N.

 

[monza]

Probably so for some. I've always stayed away from cameras like they personally. I just expect versatility when spending the coin but it's apples, oranges, and all kinds of fruits in these comparisons.

Of course. There is only one apple to directly compare to an RX1 and that's another RX1...all others are oranges. But this does lend perspective to the pricing; it's not out of line.

 

[monza]

Will not happen. You should check out the used prices of 5N.

Yes there will be depreciation but not that steep.

 

[ken_vs_ryu]

Of course. There is only one apple to directly compare to an RX1 and that's another RX1...all others are oranges. But this does lend perspective to the pricing; it's not out of line.

A good comparison is the leica x2, which is $2000. Both cameras have high quality lenses and lack a built-in viewfinder. How much would Leica charge for a FF X2?

I'm wondering whether the $250 EVF for the NEX-5N would work on the RX1.

 

[Shashin]

Zone focusing with 24MP 35mm sensor and f/2.0 isn't a combination that I would trust for photos to be sharp where I want them sharp.

For zone focusing to work, even with APS and m4/3, you would choose a much smaller aperture. You can't zone focus wide open with any camera format and expect sharp results.

Also, zone focusing is a 35mm technique, although i have done it with medium-format cameras up to 6x12 as well. DoF is a product of format size, not pixel resolution, so zone focusing is no more difficult with this camera than another 35mm camera with a 35mm lens.

 

[Vivek]

I'm wondering whether the $250 EVF for the NEX-5N would work on the RX1.

It will not. The connections are very different to start with.

 

[pophoto]

Probably so for some. I've always stayed away from cameras like they personally. I just expect versatility when spending the coin but it's apples, oranges, and all kinds of fruits in these comparisons.

I think one comment is about how a camera with lens is priced and the other is what you are personally willing to spend. Both are absolutely valid, it only gets tougher now that costs in a bad economy are going up, I honestly don't see pricing changing direction.

Ultimately Sony have labelled this a professional camera, which donates that Sony doesn't really 'intend' the market for enthusiasts/consumer level for their asking price and sure as heck wouldn't mind selling a whole bunch of these RX1s. I totally get it. Leica have never implied their market, they just release cameras LOL.

 

[Shashin]

Your background will certainly color your view of this camera. If you have an SLR background, whether digital or film, I am not surprising you find the appeal of this camera somewhat strange. But if you come from a background that uses specialty cameras, such as panoramic cameras, then this can be a really sexy product.

As far as price, some folks think $1K is far too much and will even balk at spending $500. Go look at the price of panoramic cameras which are far simpler and more expensive than the RX1. Sony understands the problem of pricing. I am sure they don't have much of a margin with this and being rather specialized only adds to the price as I doubt they will produce these in the quantities of their other products.

I see this an an unobtrusive low-light camera and, as that, it is a great product.

Now we wait for some real information...

 

[Vivek]

Ultimately Sony have labelled this a professional camera, which donates that Sony doesn't really 'intend' the market for enthusiasts/consumer level for their asking price and sure as heck wouldn't mind selling a whole bunch of these RX1s.

A Cybershot getting "professional" designation and the A99 a "mid level" designation.

Interesting.