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Sony RX1

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Hi Peter
But Leica do own the sensor design. that was the whole point. of course, you're right about the AF. but it's going to be a long time before Sony (or anyone else) are going to have a convincing enough range of FF AF lenses for a mirror less system.
Of course Leica owns sensor design - but only the design and the are relying on another company to build their sensor, but Sony owns the complete process from design to manufacturing and this is definitely an advantage.

I do not see the lens lineup to be such an issue - Zeiss and Sony have the know how and if they put enough money in this project it will not be that hard to see some 4-5 primes and 2 zooms for a future interchangeable lens RX.

But what they never will be able to do is to convince the real hard core Leica fans, or people like me which have already a complete Leica M lens lineup, but I think we are in the minority.
 

pophoto

New member
It's ultimately a design lets down rather than a design screw up without an EVF, however, the NEX series have shown with the 6 & 7, they can indeed have a small body and built in EVF!

...although what if the RX1 series was released with two versions (let's just call it A & B for argument sake) one with a 24mm fixed lens and another with 50mm fixed lens both with this mythical EVF built in, would we care for ILCs so much? Sure this doesn't cover all the range ILCs potentially can, but we're now talking optimized lens/sensor mating (gotta love this word), dust free from lens changing, and still unique size character!

I don't know, I'm thinking out loud here, but the RX1 does offer something ILCs cannot despite not being ideal in its own entity!
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
It's ultimately a design lets down rather than a design screw up without an EVF, however, the NEX series have shown with the 6 & 7, they can indeed have a small body and built in EVF!

...although what if the RX1 series was released with two versions (let's just call it A & B for argument sake) one with a 24mm fixed lens and another with 50mm fixed lens both with this mythical EVF built in, would we care for ILCs so much? Sure this doesn't cover all the range ILCs potentially can, but we're now talking optimized lens/sensor mating (gotta love this word), dust free from lens changing, and still unique size character!

I don't know, I'm thinking out loud here, but the RX1 does offer something ILCs cannot despite not being ideal in its own entity!
I actually kind of agree to that. Thought already many times in the past few years about such an approach. I would say that there should be 3 different versions - 24, 35 and 75. That with built in EVF would make my day for long time :)

Actually I think the electronics / sensor part became so cheap that this approach would be a pretty good one. Also thinking that the ILCs need a pretty expensive lens mount and contacts and dust cleaning. And can never be optimized to the degree which is possible with fixed lens.

Also a zoom version would be an option, even if this one would be for a premium price to be really excellent.

Maybe this is the direction to go?
 

jonoslack

Active member
I do not see the lens lineup to be such an issue - Zeiss and Sony have the know how and if they put enough money in this project it will not be that hard to see some 4-5 primes and 2 zooms for a future interchangeable lens RX.
It seems that it's a really big deal designing very good new lenses - look at Sony's complete failure to produce a complete set of 4-5 primes for E mount. It's taken 3/4 years to get a reasonable set of lenses for µ43 - and with a couple of notable exceptions the primes aren't that fantastic.

Added to which, they are left with a conundrum -

either you design them for the short flange distance of a mirrorless system . . in which case you are likely to get problems with corners - just as there are now with M lenses on mirrorless systems. Also you will require completely new designs (this is not quick - you'll need to pre-order the glass a couple of years ahead - and that's when you've sorted out the designs).

or they'll be as big as normal 35mm lenses

But what they never will be able to do is to convince the real hard core Leica fans, or people like me which have already a complete Leica M lens lineup, but I think we are in the minority.
Well - but even Leica cannot rely on their 'hard core' fans for future business. Sony would certainly not be interested in developing a FF system for them alone.

. . . and anyway, if someone can present me with an option that's as good as an M ergonomically, and with respect to IQ, with equally good lenses, but with added AF - I'll give it a look . . won't you?

all the best
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Well - but even Leica cannot rely on their 'hard core' fans for future business. Sony would certainly not be interested in developing a FF system for them alone.

. . . and anyway, if someone can present me with an option that's as good as an M ergonomically, and with respect to IQ, with equally good lenses, but with added AF - I'll give it a look . . won't you?

all the best
Leica's position is aptly summarized! They are in a good position, I would say! :)
 

Paratom

Well-known member
...

. . . and anyway, if someone can present me with an option that's as good as an M ergonomically, and with respect to IQ, with equally good lenses, but with added AF - I'll give it a look . . won't you?

all the best
That is what I think to myself all the time.
If Leica put the new ff-M sensor in a mirror less body with AF (as good as the OMD AF), and started offering some of the M-lens options as AF version (They could start like Fuji-28-50-90mm). Wow-this would be a great camera.
 

Brian Mosley

New member
It seems that it's a really big deal designing very good new lenses - look at Sony's complete failure to produce a complete set of 4-5 primes for E mount. It's taken 3/4 years to get a reasonable set of lenses for µ43 - and with a couple of notable exceptions the primes aren't that fantastic.

Added to which, they are left with a conundrum -

either you design them for the short flange distance of a mirrorless system . . in which case you are likely to get problems with corners - just as there are now with M lenses on mirrorless systems. Also you will require completely new designs (this is not quick - you'll need to pre-order the glass a couple of years ahead - and that's when you've sorted out the designs).

or they'll be as big as normal 35mm lenses
Hi Jono, have you seen this development?

"Scientists create a distortion free lens thats essentially 2d"

I reckon the RX1 could keep me happy until the next big thing comes along to cause a complete change of equipment :grin:

Cheers

Brian
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
If I buy any more cameras, I will be able to open my own camera museum in due course...

Still, I will probably buy the RX1 when it becomes available, even though it is unlikely to quite match the low ISO performance of the Sigma DP2. High ISO performance with a fairly fast lens in a nice body may win me over
 

Brian Mosley

New member
Quentin, I'm guessing a handful of forum regulars together, could put on a serious show! :eek: :ROTFL:

I've certainly lost count. :salute:

Cheers

Brian
 

Shashin

Well-known member
With the relativly large lens I believe the RX1 is not really pockable like the RX100 anyways.
But if a camera is not pockable anyways then for what reason does the body have to be that small.
Overall I would think something with the formfactor of the x100 would have made more sense. I even go so far that I say for such type of camera a dx sensor makes more sense because it can help keeping camera and lens smaller.
So, if it is it not as small as an RX100, then it can be as big as a Nikon D4? I think you are really missing the point. If I want a smaller camera with a smaller sensor, there are lots of those available. That is not what the RX1 is about.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
If a lot of the potential buyers are "missing the point" then Sony loses with the Rx1. Come up with a better product or just treat it for what it is worth- great talking point (not bad for a Sony product to be the subject of talk/debate for Sony).
 

Shashin

Well-known member
But you are not a potential buyer, nor the other members here that are not going to purchase it. But for your sake, if the real potential buyers don't step up to the plate, you can kiss the idea of a model with an EVF goodbye.

But a lot of people will treat it for what it is worth, a great camera.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
How do you know and how do you know? You can presume a lot of stuff about things you do not know about a product or not know any details and keep typing. But there are ought to be limits to your speculation.

If Sony does not make a compact interchangeable lens cam with an EVF, there will be others. No big loss for me.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Well, certainly your posts don't contain any speculation. Sure, if Sony takes a loss on this, it only makes sense that they will try again? And after Leica introduced the first interchangeable lens FF camera, all the other manufacturers have been lining up right behind them. Right now, I would say the future of 35mm ICL mirrorless cameras are still in doubt.

For someone who does not care, you certainly are showing a great deal of passion over the RX1 release.

BTW, this is called a conversation. This is where members can get together and discuss things they find interesting. You don't actually have to read my posts. Since you think they have no value, I even wonder why you bother referring to them.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Again, rein in your speculations and limit it to yourself and the product being discussed.

Well the ignore function helps. :)
 

Brian Mosley

New member
All Sony has to do, is stick a superb evf where that silly pop up flash resides, make it a few millimeters wider if necessary, and upgrade the focusing mechanism to match the fastest m4/3rds lenses... Swap that mode dial for a proper shutter speed dial and they will be out of trouble in no time! :D

Cheers

Brian
 
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