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Thread: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

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    Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    I post this here in the Sony forum because the RX1 is for me a sign what to come.

    Ok the Leica M fits the bill but is also out of reach for some of us. What are your thoughts about FF mirrorless cameras in 2013? I think Sony will likely make one. Canon or Nikon anyone?
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    I think that depends on the RX1 sales. I think they will be good. Then it is a matter of Sony gauging the market. Design a whole new platform means developing a whole new lenses line. That is an expensive proposition. When you have A-mount cameras and E-mount cameras, then you have to think whether you go for one more line. And at the price level, they are going to be having a very critical customer base so they are not going to be able to put out cheap optics. expensive lines are always harder to maintain then consumer lines.

    The RX1 will not be the IC camera. if you look at the pulled apart display model you will see how far that lens goes into the body. I imagine the IC camera would have to be bigger. I would like to think they would go with leaf shutter lenses, but that would add a lot to costs and so it will most likely be a focal plane shutter.

    Nikon and Canon have shown little interest in mirrorless as a serious platform. Fuji, Sony, and m4/3 consortium are likely changing that perception. But then it come down to investment.

    It cost a whole bunch of cash to start a new camera line. It also takes a whole bunch of human resources to do it as well. Do you pull your best and brightest off the bigger lines?

    With APS so successful and less costly, it would be hard for a manufacturer to justify the jump to a FF mirrorless system and customers are not really willing to pay for the technology. The RX1 seems to be testing the waters and seeing if the public would spring for this kind of expensive product. Still the potential is there. Now they have to see if the customers are there--just because folks on forum like this say would spring for such a system, does not mean they actually do and they might not really reflect the market.
    Last edited by Shashin; 19th September 2012 at 19:20.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Shashin, I agree with most of what you said. Although from Sony's point of view, why can't they build a bunch of new lenses that do recess so far back into the camera, and allow the camera to mate for this!

    I used to have complete disregard for smaller sensors, but my view is changing because of recent developments in the ASP-C sensor world and smaller, and as long as price can be kept reasonable and the IQ ever increasing, this is a great time! Fuji, Sony, Olympus and even Sigma have made progress, most notably Sony with the RX1.

    I just don't think a FF Nex is a good idea, if they cannot make high quality compact size AF lenses. I think at least not for the asking price of camera and lenses. I hope I'm wrong!

    Oh, yes, I would pay for RX1 body with Canon 50mm f/1.2 attached!
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Shashin, I agree with most of what you said. Although from Sony's point of view, why can't they build a bunch of new lenses that do recess so far back into the camera, and allow the camera to mate for this!
    From what I can tell, it is a simple space problem if a focal plane shutter has to be added as well as figuring out the data and control connections between the body and lenses. In the previews I have seen, Sony seems to be saying there is simply not enough room as well, but is not specific about why. Certainly cameras have been made with lenses that recess into the body--usually wides. But if you look at the focal plane mark on the RX1 body and if you consider the lens recesses fairly deep, they did not leave a lot of space there.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    With FF I don't mean it has to be very small like the RX1. A size of the Fuji would be fine. Just great and small lenses would be required.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    With FF I don't mean it has to be very small like the RX1. A size of the Fuji would be fine. Just great and small lenses would be required.
    Yes but what do you expect from the size of the lenses, I certainly don't expect them to be any smaller than those from, canon, Nikon and Sony A-mount! Which is certainly the main problem as it stands. Unless there is something I am overlooking.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Why are Leica lenses that small?
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Because they are manual focus only?

    I mean if that is really the answer you are looking for....
    I mean it's a no go zone for a lot people who want the AF, but yes, that's a market gap!
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    I think there are very small AF lenses.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I think there are very small AF lenses.
    Pancakes that are very slow only. Certainly cannot take advantage of a FF sensor, where it shines!
    Ultimately the juiciness for me in FF is in portraits when you have the narrow DOF, creamy bokeh! we're talking about huge chunk of glass again, right?
    Obviously I'm missing something Uwe?
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    So size is a factor of many variables. How corrected the lens is plays a big role and well as maximum aperture. Both these revolve around focal length and format size. Not all Leica lenses are small. With pixel peeping the norm for lens evaluation, you are going to be hard pressed to release a lens for an expensive system that does not perform well. That is most likely going to end up with larger optics.

    A good comparison for the RX1 lens would be the X-Pro 35mm. The difference in format size compensates for the difference in maximum aperture. You end up with two lenses very similar in size.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I think there are very small AF lenses.
    Certainly are - those pentax limited lenses (they are all screwdriver driven rather than with integrated motors though).

    I think it's integrating the AF motor in the lens which makes it big.

    all the best

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Real miniaturization with state of the materials have not reached the photo industry fully, yet.

    Once they start using efficient heat sink materials, vibration dampers, motors, etc, it can and will become small and light weight. There is nothing (not even costs) preventing anyone developing a 35/2 Summicron Asph (39mm filter thread) alike AF lens not larger than the manual focus Summicron.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    I don't think Canon or Nikon will go that far very soon. But Sony is making so bold moves on many fronts that I'd be surprised if they didn't release a FF NEX next year.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    >But Sony is making so bold moves on many fronts that I'd be surprised if they didn't release a FF NEX next year.

    My thoughts. And as it seems the E-mount works for FF and could use the old lenses in crop mode.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Uwe wrote:

    With FF I don't mean it has to be very small like the RX1. A size of the Fuji would be fine. Just great and small lenses would be required.
    Agree totally, and the X-E1 will do me in the meantime. The new 14, 30, and 60 will be an awesome kit, and I am sure an X-Pro 1 sized Fuji could be FF. We can only hope. Once you do a total rethink and ditch the mirror, I think what's being discussed here is possible. The Sony A850 was my last-ever DSLR, and I started my photography life with a pair of Photomic-head Nikon F2As—I thought I needed an optical finder. I do not, and I really like the smaller bodies I am using now. I never took the D3s or the A850 out on a walk—not even once.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    From what I can tell, it is a simple space problem if a focal plane shutter has to be added as well as figuring out the data and control connections between the body and lenses. In the previews I have seen, Sony seems to be saying there is simply not enough room as well, but is not specific about why. Certainly cameras have been made with lenses that recess into the body--usually wides. But if you look at the focal plane mark on the RX1 body and if you consider the lens recesses fairly deep, they did not leave a lot of space there.
    One wonders if a leaf shutter in the lens would solve the space issue.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bimjo View Post
    One wonders if a leaf shutter in the lens would solve the space issue.
    That means a whole mechanism inside the lens making the lenses large.
    Most of Pentax pancakes are limited to a maximum aperture, which again negates the need to goto full frame, again, it's there if the sole purpose is just having a full frame.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bimjo View Post
    One wonders if a leaf shutter in the lens would solve the space issue.
    Possibly, but you still need to add all the mechanics and electronics for the mount. I think if Sony goes for an FFIC, they will move to a bigger form to simplify the design. Just like Fuji did when moving from the X100 to the X-Pro/X-E1. But then leaf shutter add to the cost of the lenses, but it has certainly been done before--Mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7 are examples.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    That means a whole mechanism inside the lens making the lenses large.
    The leaf shutter does add to a lens, but still a small lens can be designed--the Mamiya 6/7 lenses are really small for medium format. The RX1 is not that larger either.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    You are not going to take an ideal look in regards to visual proportions and scale them to body size to make a "small" lens. The format is going to determine a great deal--focal length is not something you can ignore, nor is the image circle. The RX1 35mm lens is small, it just looks big because the body is really small.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    I'm sure Sony already has a few working prototypes on the go, and despite it being difficult for us to conceptulize, they will make fine in the end.

    Sony has proven they can move camera units despite the lack of lens release, they will probably release a Nex with adapter for A-mount first just to fool us into the idea our dreams are coming. They won't release leaf shutter lenses, just too expensive, even for consumer stand point. Although I still believe a FF Nex is coming.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    I'm sure Sony already has a few working prototypes on the go, and despite it being difficult for us to conceptulize, they will make fine in the end.
    I doubt they have any prototypes working or not. First, they need to launch the RX1 and see what sales really are. Second, most cameras spend a great deal of time being CAD drawings before taking physical form--making a physical body is really expensive: costs can be in the millions to get to the prototypes.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I doubt they have any prototypes working or not. First, they need to launch the RX1 and see what sales really are. Second, most cameras spend a great deal of time being CAD drawings before taking physical form--making a physical body is really expensive: costs can be in the millions to get to the prototypes.
    I really beg to differ, Sony spends a lot money even at the expense of losing money, but write them off in R&D. Let's just say I've been in an industry which shows what a power house Sony actually is and reflects how much time and money they actually invest. I won't go into too much detail about it but having made the RX1 and the FF NEX video camera, it won't surprise me in the least. So you saying costing millions really means very little here, to Sony at least!
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Awesome news, I really believe in Fuji!
    Samsung is another company crazy enough to do anything, even MFD! (speculation of course)
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    I really beg to differ, Sony spends a lot money even at the expense of losing money, but write them off in R&D. Let's just say I've been in an industry which shows what a power house Sony actually is and reflects how much time and money they actually invest. I won't go into too much detail about it but having made the RX1 and the FF NEX video camera, it won't surprise me in the least. So you saying costing millions really means very little here, to Sony at least!
    Companies don't waste money for no reason. There is no reason to make physical prototypes--you really don't need a physical prototype for camera development. You can also look at Sony's annual report; they are not making a huge profit by any stretch of the imagination.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Are they thinking about their color array or a Bayer array? This could be interesting.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Companies don't waste money for no reason. There is no reason to make physical prototypes--you really don't need a physical prototype for camera development. You can also look at Sony's annual report; they are not making a huge profit by any stretch of the imagination.
    It truly isn't as you are lead to believe.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    It truly isn't as you are lead to believe.
    What isn't? How camera companies work or the information from Sony's annual report?

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    How companies spend money despite what their annual reports show.
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    How do you know how Sony spends its money?

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Okay something I cannot get into, but let's just say I know Sony set off 5 companies on projects that latest almost two year of full development teams, only to choose the best one in their eyes, and then just scrap the rest. I also have friends who are manufacturing owners in Asia who make the small components for devices used in more than one place. I'm not trying to shoot down your comments, I am just stating the extent companies actually do go for market share, despite common sense for the rest of us.

    Here's an example I dug up
    Gillette Mach3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    That would be just horrible. I hope they will fix their EVF (and AF) for the APS-C first before contemplating even larger formats.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Okay something I cannot get into, but let's just say I know Sony set off 5 companies on projects that latest almost two year of full development teams, only to choose the best one in their eyes, and then just scrap the rest. I also have friends who are manufacturing owners in Asia who make the small components for devices used in more than one place. I'm not trying to shoot down your comments, I am just stating the extent companies actually do go for market share, despite common sense for the rest of us.

    Here's an example I dug up
    Gillette Mach3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That is fine. But likewise I might have an insight into the business. I worked with the project teams for a Japanese camera manufacturer--I use to live in Japan. Ironically, the last project I worked on turned out to be Sony's first DSLR. While I don't know the corporate culture at Sony, many of my former colleagues now work there on these camera projects. I can't imagine much of a change in how they used to make cameras.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Perhaps different facets of the same diamond!
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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    I think the RX1 is there to check the market of FF mirrorless for Sony (and maybe others as well).

    If it turns out to be successful, Sony might want to establish just another camera line. I also would prefer this ILC then to be larger than the RX1 anyway, as this is far too small IMHO to be a serious tool for everyday use.

    Actually I really hope such a mirrorless ILC from Sony will happen in the future, I kind of doubt it will come to market in 2013, because then the needed already to start development some time ago. So if the test the market with the RX1 and then start development, we would see an ILC earliest end 2014.

    My 5c

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Sony could also take Fuji's approach with their rangefinders by releasing RX models with other fixed focal lengths. They could follow the RX1 with a wide-angle RX2.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    A couple thoughts on the thread subject and the responses so far:

    - Would Fuji alienate their current X users by developing a FF system? Surely their XR lenses can't all perform as well on a larger sensor.

    - Zeiss has a winning model for an FF system - the film Ikon. Letting Sony help design a digital version would definitely shift the risk.

    maybe most importantly...

    - Given all of the amazing advances in sensor technology, how important is it to have a full frame digital camera, for most people? I think RX1 sales will probably answer this question, but the market has to be big enough for a FF system to make sense to both mass produce and not cost a small fortune. There is a lot of space between the RX1 and a Leica M + lenses. I think Sony/Zeiss could produce a nice system, but it will end up in a Bermuda triangle in the price spectrum.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    The RX1 is a trial balloon. Sony is willing to take the financial hit to see if there is a market for such a camera. If it even has a lukewarm response Sony will plow ahead with a smaller / ish FF camera that takes interchangeable Zeiss lenses, and probably M mount lenses as well.

    What I can't figure out is where Voigtlander has been in this battle. If they developed a FF rangefinder that had the IQ of the Epson, and didn't leave the customers in the lurch with crappy customer service, I would run out and get one.

    And yes, Fuji will also get on the FF bandwagon, even at the risk of alienating its current users, if the IQ is as good as the current line up of cameras, and the price isn't prohibitive.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by corposant View Post
    A couple thoughts on the thread subject and the responses so far:

    - Would Fuji alienate their current X users by developing a FF system? Surely their XR lenses can't all perform as well on a larger sensor.
    Why would it? It would seem both systems can exist side-by-side. That gives folks a choice on how much they are willing to spend.

    - Zeiss has a winning model for an FF system - the film Ikon. Letting Sony help design a digital version would definitely shift the risk.
    That is not Zeiss, but Cosina. Cosina did not like the Epson product and said it really does not want to work on digital rangefinders. And just because you have a film rangefinder, it is not that easy to convert it to a digital one. There would be a great risk for both companies, although I imagine Cosina might make a camera for Sony, just like sony makes cameras for Hasselblad and so the risk would be for Sony.

    But I don't think Sony would want to be bothered with a coupled rangefinder. They are a pain to manufacture and a pain to service. They are also expensive. I would imagine they would be using an EVF just like in all their other cameras.

    maybe most importantly...

    - Given all of the amazing advances in sensor technology, how important is it to have a full frame digital camera, for most people? I think RX1 sales will probably answer this question, but the market has to be big enough for a FF system to make sense to both mass produce and not cost a small fortune. There is a lot of space between the RX1 and a Leica M + lenses. I think Sony/Zeiss could produce a nice system, but it will end up in a Bermuda triangle in the price spectrum.
    And there is the rub. How much is a FF system worth to people. There are certainly advantages to smaller format beyond prices as well--you get more DoF which can be a plus for many folks. And the image quality is great.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I post this here in the Sony forum because the RX1 is for me a sign what to come.

    Ok the Leica M fits the bill but is also out of reach for some of us. What are your thoughts about FF mirrorless cameras in 2013? I think Sony will likely make one. Canon or Nikon anyone?
    So here's my hypothesis...

    The question has little to do with the sensor. Sony obviously has the sensor technology well in hand, albeit at a price. There is certainly a market for cameras with 35mm format sensors, no matter how good or bad APS-C and FourThirds are, and Sony seemingly can build them into arbitrarily small bodies. Prices will come down somewhat with volume, as usual for electronics manufacture, so for them to produce bodies at an affordable price point (say $2000) is really a matter of putting in the investment, and then having a product that is acceptable for sale.

    So the real issue of whether and how to make a mirrorless FF camera has to do with lenses, and the match between sensors and lenses. What we've seen so far is that, even with APS-C format, existing RF lens designs are often a troublesome match to the sensor. Only those cameras with sensors customized for short register mounts do well with a large enough range of the existing lenses. Customizing sensors for these lenses implies additional costs, and is not always perfect either. The required geometry for SLR lens designs, because of the moving mirror, makes a much easier adaptation to digital sensors. But SLR lenses are bulky, again because of the required geometry, which defeats much of the purpose for the mirrorless system.

    So what's the solution? Well, we've seen three smaller-than-FF format solutions so far: Micro-FourThirds, NEX, and Fuji X (skipping the NX simply because it's not been a big seller, but it's a fourth). The best quality images from these three formats have all been made with lenses optimized for the format and sensor characteristics. mFT has been around long enough now for a fairly extensive lens line to be developed, and there are quite a few good lenses for it. NEX has been around a couple of years less, and the lens system is growing slowly. The Fuji is just out of the traps and the lens system is still quite immature but good quality.

    For Sony to take on producing a mirrorless FF system that encompasses the desire for compact size and high quality will require, I believe, nothing less than a full bore lens development program with lenses optimized for the sensor and mount. There's certainly value in that, and there's a ready market for it if many of the comments made on the varlous new M threads are to be believed. BUT it's a very price conscious audience already: they know all about the Leica M, the value and quality of Leica (and Zeiss, and Voigtlander) lenses. They also know the price of these things, and many don't want to pay the ticket. And developing lenses is both very expensive and takes a lot of time.

    The question comes down to how adroitly Sony (or any other manufacturer) can pilot their way between the development of bodies and lenses that can be sold profitably, at affordable prices, and yet fulfill the very high expectations of the buying community. The RX1 may be a test program ... Will people buy into a dedicated full frame camera with a super quality lens at this price level? The next question after that is, will they buy into a $2000 body and $1000 lens combination for an interchangeable lens system at enough volume to be profitable?

    Canon and Nikon have an advantage selling their new lower-end FF SLR bodies: they already have a lens line that works with them. Even though that is still an ongoing work in progress as they continue to revise and optimize for the digital sensor, it's huge leg up on the introduction of a new, compact, TTL electronic system of similar specification.

    I think it will happen, and it's quite possible Sony will have to be the one to do it. Leica's agenda is higher end than the mass market product that the mirrorless call wants, and they don't have the resources (or motivation). Nikon and Canon are concentrating on their traditional SLR base for the present. Ricoh/Pentax are probably better off continuing with their Pentax SLR and GXR system efforts, given that they are both relatively niche market brands at this point in time. Olympus and Panasonic are wedded to the FourThirds format for the present, and are already doing well there. There really isn't anyone else out there with the resources to tackle this kind of thing.

    The future will tell the story.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    A fullframe, e-mount still camera poses a few issues that make it a little more difficult than it sounds, if you want the lenses to remain small.

    As mentioned above, getting the rear element close, like the RX1, would require a leaf shutter, which adds to the cost of the lens. Also, the large rear element of the RX1's lens wouldn't even fit through the e-mount when attached to an interchangeable lens, so there'd still be compromise.

    You can wedge a fullframe sensor into a pretty small mount, like e-mount, and you can make the registration distance of a fullframe mirrorless shallow, like e-mount... but, if you have BOTH a small mount AND a short registration distance, the flange starts becoming an issue of physically being in the way. There is a reason that the mounts of m4/3, NEX, Fuji, Nikon 1, etc., are oversized compared to their sensor.

    See link: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/449848-post66.html

    So you're stuck with either designing lenses that are nearly as large as their DSLR counterparts, including adapters, or you go the Leica route and design special sensors to accommodate, highly advanced lenses, and software correction, most of which would be very expensive, and you'd still have to add in auto aperture and auto focus mechanisms.

    My guess is that Sony will eventually make a FF NEX still camera, but they won't develop a separate lens line, but, rather, give us the option of using a-mount lenses for quality and e-mount lenses for size. However, I think we're a ways away from that, because they aren't ready to give up on their SLT cameras. The RX1 seems like their solution for FF and compact.


    p.s. Of course, there is the VG-900, but that was built to accept fullframe cine and SLR lenses with much longer registration distances. Small lenses need not apply.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    If it means larger lenses, no thanks.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    The RX1 lens is small. It is about 43mm extended from the front of the body and about 60mm in diameter. The Leica 35mm f/2 Cron with no AF or leaf shutter is 36mm x 51mm and it has a larger flange distance.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    The only problem with leaf shutters is the maximum speed; I think the current Schneider Kreuznach (sp.?) lenses for the Phase 645D bodies are limited to a top speed of 1/1600"; the advantage, as everyone knows, is flash sync at all speeds. Incredibly quiet, too. For me, a leaf shutter would be perfect, and a dial-in ND filter (or two) would take care of the top speed problem.

    Good point about the 35/2 'Cron, too.

    Interesting times for photographers, it seems: a return to an OM-sized camera, but a digital version, just might happen—and The OMs had beautiful optical finders too. Ah: strike that!

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    The Sony RX1 has 1/2000th top shutter speed which is really good.

    BTW, Fuji just made an announcement today that their X series lenses will NOT cover FF.
    Last edited by Shashin; 21st September 2012 at 08:50.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    The only problem with leaf shutters is the maximum speed; I think the current Schneider Kreuznach (sp.?) lenses for the Phase 645D bodies are limited to a top speed of 1/1600"; the advantage, as everyone knows, is flash sync at all speeds. Incredibly quiet, too. For me, a leaf shutter would be perfect, and a dial-in ND filter (or two) would take care of the top speed problem.

    Good point about the 35/2 'Cron, too.

    Interesting times for photographers, it seems: a return to an OM-sized camera, but a digital version, just might happen—and The OMs had beautiful optical finders too. Ah: strike that!
    Agreed, Kit. Of course, the other disadvantage of leaf shutters in lenses is cost. A set of lenses that all have leaf shutters tend to be more expensive.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    Now if we could only realize the dream of the aperture blade doubling as the shutter blades, we could have cheap leaf shutters in every camera. Leaf shutters are fast today because they only have to end the exposure.

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    Re: Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

    There is some discussion on this topic over at the Fuji X forum. There are a number of members there with considerable expertise in oriental Asian verbal discussion that possibly recognise cultural differences in interpretation by Amateur Photographer staff of what is meant by Mr. Hiroshi Kawahara of Fuji, rather than what was actually said by him.

    We would all like it to be true, but it may not actually be what was meant.

    As always with rumours, time will tell!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

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