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Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?
- Thread starter ustein
- Start date
Shashin
Well-known member
I think that depends on the RX1 sales. I think they will be good. Then it is a matter of Sony gauging the market. Design a whole new platform means developing a whole new lenses line. That is an expensive proposition. When you have A-mount cameras and E-mount cameras, then you have to think whether you go for one more line. And at the price level, they are going to be having a very critical customer base so they are not going to be able to put out cheap optics. expensive lines are always harder to maintain then consumer lines.
The RX1 will not be the IC camera. if you look at the pulled apart display model you will see how far that lens goes into the body. I imagine the IC camera would have to be bigger. I would like to think they would go with leaf shutter lenses, but that would add a lot to costs and so it will most likely be a focal plane shutter.
Nikon and Canon have shown little interest in mirrorless as a serious platform. Fuji, Sony, and m4/3 consortium are likely changing that perception. But then it come down to investment.
It cost a whole bunch of cash to start a new camera line. It also takes a whole bunch of human resources to do it as well. Do you pull your best and brightest off the bigger lines?
With APS so successful and less costly, it would be hard for a manufacturer to justify the jump to a FF mirrorless system and customers are not really willing to pay for the technology. The RX1 seems to be testing the waters and seeing if the public would spring for this kind of expensive product. Still the potential is there. Now they have to see if the customers are there--just because folks on forum like this say would spring for such a system, does not mean they actually do and they might not really reflect the market.
The RX1 will not be the IC camera. if you look at the pulled apart display model you will see how far that lens goes into the body. I imagine the IC camera would have to be bigger. I would like to think they would go with leaf shutter lenses, but that would add a lot to costs and so it will most likely be a focal plane shutter.
Nikon and Canon have shown little interest in mirrorless as a serious platform. Fuji, Sony, and m4/3 consortium are likely changing that perception. But then it come down to investment.
It cost a whole bunch of cash to start a new camera line. It also takes a whole bunch of human resources to do it as well. Do you pull your best and brightest off the bigger lines?
With APS so successful and less costly, it would be hard for a manufacturer to justify the jump to a FF mirrorless system and customers are not really willing to pay for the technology. The RX1 seems to be testing the waters and seeing if the public would spring for this kind of expensive product. Still the potential is there. Now they have to see if the customers are there--just because folks on forum like this say would spring for such a system, does not mean they actually do and they might not really reflect the market.
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Shashin, I agree with most of what you said. Although from Sony's point of view, why can't they build a bunch of new lenses that do recess so far back into the camera, and allow the camera to mate for this!
I used to have complete disregard for smaller sensors, but my view is changing because of recent developments in the ASP-C sensor world and smaller, and as long as price can be kept reasonable and the IQ ever increasing, this is a great time! Fuji, Sony, Olympus and even Sigma have made progress, most notably Sony with the RX1.
I just don't think a FF Nex is a good idea, if they cannot make high quality compact size AF lenses. I think at least not for the asking price of camera and lenses. I hope I'm wrong!
Oh, yes, I would pay for RX1 body with Canon 50mm f/1.2 attached!
I used to have complete disregard for smaller sensors, but my view is changing because of recent developments in the ASP-C sensor world and smaller, and as long as price can be kept reasonable and the IQ ever increasing, this is a great time! Fuji, Sony, Olympus and even Sigma have made progress, most notably Sony with the RX1.
I just don't think a FF Nex is a good idea, if they cannot make high quality compact size AF lenses. I think at least not for the asking price of camera and lenses. I hope I'm wrong!
Oh, yes, I would pay for RX1 body with Canon 50mm f/1.2 attached!
Shashin
Well-known member
From what I can tell, it is a simple space problem if a focal plane shutter has to be added as well as figuring out the data and control connections between the body and lenses. In the previews I have seen, Sony seems to be saying there is simply not enough room as well, but is not specific about why. Certainly cameras have been made with lenses that recess into the body--usually wides. But if you look at the focal plane mark on the RX1 body and if you consider the lens recesses fairly deep, they did not leave a lot of space there.
Yes but what do you expect from the size of the lenses, I certainly don't expect them to be any smaller than those from, canon, Nikon and Sony A-mount! Which is certainly the main problem as it stands. Unless there is something I am overlooking.
Pancakes that are very slow only. Certainly cannot take advantage of a FF sensor, where it shines!
Ultimately the juiciness for me in FF is in portraits when you have the narrow DOF, creamy bokeh! we're talking about huge chunk of glass again, right?
Obviously I'm missing something Uwe?
Shashin
Well-known member
So size is a factor of many variables. How corrected the lens is plays a big role and well as maximum aperture. Both these revolve around focal length and format size. Not all Leica lenses are small. With pixel peeping the norm for lens evaluation, you are going to be hard pressed to release a lens for an expensive system that does not perform well. That is most likely going to end up with larger optics.
A good comparison for the RX1 lens would be the X-Pro 35mm. The difference in format size compensates for the difference in maximum aperture. You end up with two lenses very similar in size.
A good comparison for the RX1 lens would be the X-Pro 35mm. The difference in format size compensates for the difference in maximum aperture. You end up with two lenses very similar in size.
jonoslack
Active member
Certainly are - those pentax limited lenses (they are all screwdriver driven rather than with integrated motors though).
I think it's integrating the AF motor in the lens which makes it big.
all the best
V
Vivek
Guest
Real miniaturization with state of the materials have not reached the photo industry fully, yet.
Once they start using efficient heat sink materials, vibration dampers, motors, etc, it can and will become small and light weight. There is nothing (not even costs) preventing anyone developing a 35/2 Summicron Asph (39mm filter thread) alike AF lens not larger than the manual focus Summicron.
Once they start using efficient heat sink materials, vibration dampers, motors, etc, it can and will become small and light weight. There is nothing (not even costs) preventing anyone developing a 35/2 Summicron Asph (39mm filter thread) alike AF lens not larger than the manual focus Summicron.
kit laughlin
Subscriber Member
Uwe wrote:
Agree totally, and the X-E1 will do me in the meantime. The new 14, 30, and 60 will be an awesome kit, and I am sure an X-Pro 1 sized Fuji could be FF. We can only hope. Once you do a total rethink and ditch the mirror, I think what's being discussed here is possible. The Sony A850 was my last-ever DSLR, and I started my photography life with a pair of Photomic-head Nikon F2As—I thought I needed an optical finder. I do not, and I really like the smaller bodies I am using now. I never took the D3s or the A850 out on a walk—not even once.
One wonders if a leaf shutter in the lens would solve the space issue.
That means a whole mechanism inside the lens making the lenses large.
Most of Pentax pancakes are limited to a maximum aperture, which again negates the need to goto full frame, again, it's there if the sole purpose is just having a full frame.
Shashin
Well-known member
Possibly, but you still need to add all the mechanics and electronics for the mount. I think if Sony goes for an FFIC, they will move to a bigger form to simplify the design. Just like Fuji did when moving from the X100 to the X-Pro/X-E1. But then leaf shutter add to the cost of the lenses, but it has certainly been done before--Mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7 are examples.
Shashin
Well-known member
The leaf shutter does add to a lens, but still a small lens can be designed--the Mamiya 6/7 lenses are really small for medium format. The RX1 is not that larger either.