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Thread: FF NEX

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    FF NEX

    The rumors are getting stronger. This is a highly anticipated product. Apparently, it will be a reality within an year!

    I hope it will be a bigger and better version of the NEX-6.
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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The rumors are getting stronger. This is a highly anticipated product. Apparently, it will be a reality within an year!

    I hope it will be a bigger and better version of the NEX-6.
    I think the RX1 may give us an idea of what its potential will be. For me the only question mark is auto-focus in low light.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Absolutely, John!

    We can vicariously see the sensor's capabilities through RX1 and D600. If Sony upgrades that even further, it will be superb!

    Let us hope the AF will also improve.

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    Re: FF NEX

    I hope the FF NEX is in fact modeled from the positive points of the RX1 rather than a bump in sensor size based off of the NEX system. All the goodness of silent leaf shutter, menu system similar to the A99, high end optics.

    Despite having said that, Sony commitment to releasing a good quality lens lineup leaves little to be desired, a lesson that should taken from the Fuji books!
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    Re: FF NEX

    admin

    First I said FF NEX coming (it was the VG900)
    Second I said NEX FF (similar to NEX-7) not coming soon. Certainly not within 8-10months.
    Third I said Sony now decided to drop SLT FF plans for early 2013 in favour of NEX FF.
    (SR5) no A1x, two APS-C SLT, roadmap change from End 2013 towards (Some personal notes and some rumors) | sonyalpharumors

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    Re: FF NEX

    Yeah all these bodies (that are all pretty much the same and overlap each other) and no real dedication to developing lenses is driving me back to Micro 4/3 and Leica exclusively. I like that I can adapt other lenses and that's great but once the new M comes out and I can get my hands on an MM why should I put my M lenses on a Sony FF NEX? Also why should I stay in the Alpha system when Micro 4/3 is advancing itself and is clearly the most complete mirrorless system? Really the sensor size difference isn't all THAT great.
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    Re: FF NEX

    This new roadmap (idea) is still confusing. Why does Sony need so many overlapping models????

    Would be great if they concentrate on a real Pro body with FF - both Axyz and NEX.

    Other than that I cannot see why to jump ship from either Nikon D800 or Olympus OMD, especially as the new GH3 is finally a great Pro body for m43. Plus all the latest lenses from Pana like 12-35 and 35-100. Finally!

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    Re: FF NEX

    I, for one, must be the only person out there that could care less about a FF nex. I like the idea, but not with the current e-mount. Yes, I know it's a technical possibility, but given the limitations of the optics, and given the weaknesses we've already seen with the NEX-7, I'm not sure that things translate well if you scale everything up to a FF sized sensor. If folks are grousing about corner softness on the NEX-7 can't WAIT to hear the complaints about the IQ of the NEX-9....
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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    ...once the new M comes out and I can get my hands on an MM why should I put my M lenses on a Sony FF NEX?
    Maybe you shouldn't; but for those of us who can't afford the M but want to shoot Leica (and a million other) optics, why wouldn't we want an FF NEX?

    Also why should I stay in the Alpha system when Micro 4/3 is advancing itself and is clearly the most complete mirrorless system? Really the sensor size difference isn't all THAT great.
    When you attach a Super-Wide Heliar on one and it stays 15mm and the other makes it 30mm equivalent… well, I call that a HUGE difference.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    I, for one, must be the only person out there that could care less about a FF nex. I like the idea, but not with the current e-mount. Yes, I know it's a technical possibility, but given the limitations of the optics, and given the weaknesses we've already seen with the NEX-7, I'm not sure that things translate well if you scale everything up to a FF sized sensor. If folks are grousing about corner softness on the NEX-7 can't WAIT to hear the complaints about the IQ of the NEX-9....
    Yep, this is the big problem with putting a FF sensor in e-mount. Other FF mounts, like F mount and M mount, also have a smallish throat diameter like e-mount, but their registration distance is longer. The combination of both a smallish throat diameter and very short registration distance is a mechanical interference issue that can either be solved by:

    A) Improving the sensors acceptance of light rays, like Leica, so that Sony can make FF NEX lenses that extend down into the throat more without edge issues. The VG-900 shows that Sony hasn't been interested in this, yet, as it seems to be smearing various M lenses quite a bit.

    B) Making longer, more telecentric lenses, which are more or less similar in size to a-mount lenses with adapters.

    As Lonnie says, there are already complaints about corner performance with the NEX-7 and some lenses, and Sony's aps-c lenses also get a lot of complaints in regards to how large they are. If Sony doesn't make big sensor improvements to accommodate this, I can't imagine how people will complain about the size of FF NEX lenses. The RX1 gets around this by being fixed lens, but making an interchangeable version will take some work.


    p.s. I doubt Sony would put leaf shutters in every lens, but they certainly can work on making NEX shutters a little more quiet.
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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    As Lonnie says, there are already complaints about corner performance with the NEX-7 and some lenses, and Sony's aps-c lenses also get a lot of complaints in regards to how large they are. If Sony doesn't make big sensor improvements to accommodate this, I can't imagine how people will complain about the size of FF NEX lenses.
    Oh yeah, I TOTALLY forgot about lens size.

    I guess the point is, for me, that I'm willing to accept the limitations of a compact APS-C sized interchangeable lens mirrorless camera more than I'm willing to accept the limitations of a compact FF sized sized interchangeable lens mirrorless camera.

    In fact, after thinking about it for a long, long time I think the best solution for me at this point, and looking a Sony's now nebulous future is to pick up a NEX-7 along the new 10-18mm F/4 e-mount lens as a compliment to my A900 (I also own a NEX-5 as well). The NEX-7 would serve as a replacement for my aging A200. This just opens up so many more options for me esp when traveling and or hiking. I love my A900 and Zeiss glass, but sometimes it's too heavy to carry long distances.
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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by rawhead View Post
    Maybe you shouldn't; but for those of us who can't afford the M but want to shoot Leica (and a million other) optics, why wouldn't we want an FF NEX?
    It is just not that (affordability) there are more advantages to a live view camera over the RF coupled ones. Even Leica see the benefits and acknowledged this fact with the introduction of it in their new M (which I appreciate very much).

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by rawhead View Post
    Maybe you shouldn't; but for those of us who can't afford the M but want to shoot Leica (and a million other) optics, why wouldn't we want an FF NEX?



    When you attach a Super-Wide Heliar on one and it stays 15mm and the other makes it 30mm equivalent… well, I call that a HUGE difference.
    Even if Sony does make a FF NEX, there is no guarantee that it'll perform well with various M lenses. The VG-900 looks to be a bit of a dud away from center with some M lenses. It smears the ZM 28/2.8 so much that it almost reminds me of one of those Fujian 35/1.7 lenses.
    Last edited by douglasf13; 10th December 2012 at 15:40.

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    Re: FF NEX

    I hope you meant Fujian.

    The 35/1.7 Fuji (Fujinon-TV, c-mount) lens, unfortunately does not cover the APS-C sensor but within the image circle it projects, everything is sharp, even wide open.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I hope you meant Fujian.

    The 35/1.7 Fuji (Fujinon-TV, c-mount) lens, unfortunately does not cover the APS-C sensor but within the image circle it projects, everything is sharp, even wide open.
    Whoops! Yep, I meant Fujian. Fixed.

    The Fujian has massive field curvature wide open, so only there is only a small area in focus around the focus point. The ZM 28 isn't quite like that on the VG-900, but it does have pretty major smearing as you go towards the corners, so it kinda reminds me of some CCTV lenses on aps-c.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by rawhead View Post
    Maybe you shouldn't; but for those of us who can't afford the M but want to shoot Leica (and a million other) optics, why wouldn't we want an FF NEX?



    When you attach a Super-Wide Heliar on one and it stays 15mm and the other makes it 30mm equivalent… well, I call that a HUGE difference.
    As Douglas said you're assuming that FF will make all things equal and as I mentioned in my post Micro 4/3 is becoming a complete system without a NEED to adapt.
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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post

    In fact, after thinking about it for a long, long time I think the best solution for me at this point, and looking a Sony's now nebulous future is to pick up a NEX-7 along the new 10-18mm F/4 e-mount lens as a compliment to my A900
    I have the A900 with Zeiss glass and the NEX7 with the 24mm Zeiss. The combination is just perfect. Moreover Zeiss is bringing out new lenses for the NEX next year.

    Cheers, Bob.

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    Re: FF NEX

    I personally cant wait for a FF NEX to arrive. My hope is that Sony chooses to go all out on making it a professional body and include weather sealing. Of course, this will mean that they will need weather sealed lenses to so I am not holding out on that.

    Since I own no Leica lenses (and probably never will) I am not terribly concerned with M performance issues. But having my old Minolta Rokkors and various M42's at their proper focal length with no crop would be just heaven.

    For the love of God Sony, please make this camera live up to its potential.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by f/otographer View Post
    I personally cant wait for a FF NEX to arrive. My hope is that Sony chooses to go all out on making it a professional body and include weather sealing. Of course, this will mean that they will need weather sealed lenses to so I am not holding out on that.
    This didn't stop Leica from offering weather sealing with their promised "M."

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    Re: FF NEX

    Yeah, having the body sealed is still better than nothing.

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    Re: FF NEX

    I only look forward to the Sigma lenses (APS-C or FF).

    Sony/Zony are not very useful in my experience. The prices are simply atrocious as is with a pathetic AF performance. Forget about weather sealing. It will only make them bulky, over weight and even more atrociously priced.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I only look forward to the Sigma lenses (APS-C or FF).
    Yeah, me to. Sigma is on the roll!

    I wished they or Sony made a FF mirrorles camera with a noice improved foveon in it. Best sensor on the planet

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    Re: FF NEX

    The rumor site indicates that the next FF SLT would have it with a mirror up possibility (Sony already have patents on Foveon like sensors). I hope it will be true for the NEX as well.

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    Re: FF NEX

    No room for a mirror in the next NEX, I hope. Means different lenses with a new flange distance. ( And less possibilitys for MF lenses )

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    Re: FF NEX

    If Sony goes the right path, then the next FF camera they bring (I doubt it would be called FF NEX) will be without a mirror and will definitely require new lenses to make advantage of the more compact design because of shorter flange distance. To get an idea about the size advantages of such a design, just compare 43 E system lenses and m43 lenses. Next generation systems, especially in the pro area, will look like this, just translated for FF.

    Not sure if Sony has the capacity and also willingness to develop such a system and how fast they would be not only introducing such a camera (cameras) but also a complete new lens lineup, which is also optimized for sensor CDAF. They do have the technology at hand, especially since they not only own sensor design but also have now access to Olympus technology, who are leading in CDAF so far. But you never know if they decide that direction or just try to exploit the current lens base and only slowly move there or maybe never.

    Having said that I am pretty confident that mirror less (DSLMs) like the OMD and now also the GH3 will also reign the FF sector over time, maybe in 4-6 years. Will be interesting to see who does the first bold move - Sony, Canon, Nikon or maybe even Olympus. If this is played right then it could allow to dominate the serious/pro camera market for the next generation.

    For myself I am pretty sure that my D800E is the last FF DSLR I bought (could buy). I am pretty excited about these changes and being allowed to live through these interesting times.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Olympus didn't even want to build FF sensors for DSLRs. I highly doubt that they have plans to build a FF mirrorless.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Will be very interesting if the FF nex goes ahead. Sony will have to introduce a whole new set of lens again, pity, as they finally have a good range of e-mount lens.

    Also, if they concentrate on a FF nex, would it affect sales of other cameras like the likes of a-99.

    Also can a FF nex retain the somewhat compact nature of current nex.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Olympus didn't even want to build FF sensors for DSLRs. I highly doubt that they have plans to build a FF mirrorless.
    Right, they were also not able to build FF sensors for DSLRs, as they do not have their own sensor business.

    But that means nothing for the future, especially as they are now closely aligned with Sony. We all do not know what Sony wants Olympus to develop. Maybe Sony could use Olympus as a testbed for a FF mirror less system - who knows?

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    We all do not know what Sony wants Olympus to develop.
    Sure we do--endoscopes. It is Olympus's medical imaging division that is the money maker and that is where the press release said Sony was investing. I doubt after investing so heavily in 4/3 and m4/3, Olympus is going to see any benefit of going FF.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Sure we do--endoscopes. It is Olympus's medical imaging division that is the money maker and that is where the press release said Sony was investing. I doubt after investing so heavily in 4/3 and m4/3, Olympus is going to see any benefit of going FF.
    Maybe, maybe not ....

    At least m43 is showing how digital cameras will most likely be built in coming years.

    Olympus has always surprised with unconventional, excellent and practical solutions - OM, 43, m43. And they are definitely capable of delivering complete lens systems for their cameras in very short time and highest quality - again OM, E-System lenses (HG and SHG), maybe a bit slow for m43 which I actually do not understand.

    The other company poised to go that direction of real mirror less FF would be Sony, if they could decide to abandon their current TLM technology, which nobody can tell.

    Nikon and Canon? They both have to loose too much of their current customer base, so they most likely will try to go the current DSLR path as long as possible.

    My guess is that in 5 years from now we will have gone through another 3 iterations of sensor design, processing engines and EVFs, so we will have no longer any of the current obstacles which allow to discuss that OVF and mirror are better, simply because the mirror less path will be much better already in all aspects. Interesting to see who will be the vendors and market dominators by then .....

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    Re: FF NEX

    According to the latest SR5 (almost 100% possibiilty of it happening) rumor, a FF NEX is going to be a reality in a year, with a 24MP or a 30-32MP sensor. I think this is a serious opportunity for Sony to shake things up and reach the pinnacle they have been hungering after for the past several years.

    (SR5) Full Frame mirrorless from Sony coming in almost exactly one year! 24 or 30-32 Megapixel! | sonyalpharumors
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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by roweraay View Post
    I think this is a serious opportunity for Sony to shake things up and reach the pinnacle they have been hungering after for the past several years.
    +1

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    +1
    ++1

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    Re: FF NEX

    +1 also. I also think Sony further developing the foveon sensor will add to this. The new sigma 35mm f/1.4 lens is astounding in my opinion, and so is the DP2M with limitations.

    The RX1 is also growing on me as well, all three strengths I can see in palms of Sony, they just need to continue their innovation, knowing what they have technology wise, but at the same time Sony are snobs when it comes to interface design and user settings (think Apple) and less like Fuji. While Fuji keeps listening to consumers, I don't think their engineers really know what enthusiasts want, so they don't get it right either, but they are still young in the mirror less market, and so is the market in general!
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    Re: FF NEX

    Hi all new here, nice to chime in.. Now that we have seen the RX1, itīs not a matter of "if" but "when" that we see an interchangeable lens FF Sony body. If anything, the RX1 has shown that Sony can make an awesome lens work lovely with a great FF sensor. The RX1, as much as I like it, is not my thing but if they ended developing an interchangeable version of the new 35/2 Sonnar for the new system, I think I would most probably be in.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by roweraay View Post
    I think this is a serious opportunity for Sony to shake things up and reach the pinnacle they have been hungering after for the past several years.
    I'm not quite so convinced . . . they're really there with both sensor design, and the will to innovate, which is great. The trouble is that they don't seem to me to have the idea of consistency which is so important to establish a system.

    To be honest - although It'd be wonderful if a FF Nex behaved well with M lenses - I wonder if it's terribly critical.

    What does worry me is whether there will be enough small, high quality lenses in any normal sort of time scale - and I DO think this is critical.

    What also worries me is that the flip about with interface design and ergonomics - if you're going to buy into a system you want some kind of coherent and consistent development here. Tri-Navi for instance - the new big thing - but now it seems to have gone.

    But I certainly agree it really is an opportunity - especially when Canon and Nikon seem to have buried their heads in sand.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Hi Jono, I do not think they are there with respect to sensor design. Although there are hints from their patents that they may be on to really innovative sensors and not the current garden variety ones.

    I have absolutely no confidence in Sony with lenses. If they ever make good ones that are also compact, it would make Leica lenses a bargain, in terms of prices.

    So, despite the design/interface problems that you allude to and which I am willing to put up with, if they deliver a decent interchangeable lens mount cam with a decent sensor, I will be very pleased to buy and use.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagas View Post
    Hi all new here, nice to chime in.. Now that we have seen the RX1, itīs not a matter of "if" but "when" that we see an interchangeable lens FF Sony body. If anything, the RX1 has shown that Sony can make an awesome lens work lovely with a great FF sensor. The RX1, as much as I like it, is not my thing but if they ended developing an interchangeable version of the new 35/2 Sonnar for the new system, I think I would most probably be in.
    I think the RX-1 shows the opposite. It still has some color shift issues, albeit relatively minor, and that's with a fixed lens camera that is supposedly tuned for good edge perfromance. An interchangeable lens camera will be more difficult.

    p.s. Jono, I think Sony will still use Tri-navi. The Nex-6 is a lower level model, so Sony needed differentiation from the Nex-7.

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    Re: FF NEX

    The RX1 may have some (very mild in my opinion) issues, but they only seem to be visible in very specific situations (evenly lit white walls and such...), and they donīt tend to show much in normal life shooting and situations. The majority of the new owners (even the ones that are aware of this issues) donīt seem to be willing to part with the camera and are quite satisfied with it.

    I have owned a bunch of cameras along the years ,compacts, DSLRīs -APS and Fullframe-, micro 4/3, Fuji X100 and now Nex 7 (which is currently my only camera). I have been been fairly happy with all my cameras, none of them was without issues and limitations, I learned to live with them and enjoy them. I believe that as a "capturing-beautiful-memories-and-images-of-real-life-and-the-years-passing-by" kind of machine the RX1 is going to be quite a success.

    There is a very small and select club of cameras that hold a special place in the collective memory of the photography community. In the times of film, an example of such cameras could be the Fuji GW series of cameras (specially the 6x9 models that seem to hold their value forever), and the Konica Hexar 35 AF which is very sought after and has been in business producing stunning images for years and years. In the digital era, the Leica Digilux2 inmediately comes to mind: this camera seems to have a "je ne sais quoi" and certainly holds a very special status (and itīs value) among photographers. Another such camera is the original 5D, which even when it can be found for peanuts now, certainly took the world by storm when it appeared and will remain forever as a milestone. I have a feeling the RX1 is bound to join this little lovely club..

    I for one wonīt be purchasing this camera for a number of reasons, but I really like the images that Iīm seeing coming out of this camera, it has in my opinion (OK, OK, Iīve only seen web JPEGS, I know) a beautiful way or "drawing" that I havenīt seen for example with the Nex6/7 and the Sonnar 24/1.8 which is regarded as the best in the Nex lineup and is also a Zeiss lens. But I can see a compact full frame mirror-less interchangeable camera (Nex or not) in my future, I think the RX1 is a step in the right direction.. My 2c.

    Good light!!
    Last edited by Nagas; 25th December 2012 at 04:28.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagas View Post
    The RX1 may have some (very mild in my opinion) issues, but they only seem to be visible in very specific situations (evenly lit white walls and such...), and they donīt tend to show much in normal life shooting and situations. The majority of the new owners (even the ones that are aware of this issues) donīt seem to be willing to part with the camera and are quite satisfied with it.
    I agree, but that isn't my point. You said, "If anything, the RX1 has shown that Sony can make an awesome lens work lovely with a great FF sensor." If Sony can't nail the color shift issue with a fixed lens and sensor combo that are designed to be tuned for each other, I don't have a lot of faith in a FF interchangeable version, especially if they keep using the e-mount, which will limit things, mechanically.

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    Re: FF NEX

    I understand what you mean, but the truth is that the lens/sensor combo in the RX1 does produce stunning images, it has, to my eye, a very special and compelling look. And the color shift issue isnīt half as bad as in the Nex cameras, which hasnīt stopped them from selling really well and becoming highly regarded cameras. As I said before, none of the cameras I owned was without some issue. You can either live with them or you canīt.

    I believe the RX1 shortcomings are more in itīs concept (fixed focal length, no integrated viewfinder, no articulated screen, etc) that in the mentioned issues, which can be very easily walked around. I guess itīs a matter of wether you are willing to make certain compromises with a camera at this price point and I can very well understand that someone is not willing to do so.

    Good light!
    Sony Nex7, Sigmarit DN 30/2.8 & DN 19/2.8, a couple Rokkors...

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagas View Post
    And the color shift issue isnīt half as bad as in the Nex cameras, which hasnīt stopped them from selling really well and becoming highly regarded cameras.
    I do not think that is correct.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagas View Post
    I understand what you mean, but the truth is that the lens/sensor combo in the RX1 does produce stunning images, it has, to my eye, a very special and compelling look. And the color shift issue isnīt half as bad as in the Nex cameras, which hasnīt stopped them from selling really well and becoming highly regarded cameras. As I said before, none of the cameras I owned was without some issue. You can either live with them or you canīt.

    I believe the RX1 shortcomings are more in itīs concept (fixed focal length, no integrated viewfinder, no articulated screen, etc) that in the mentioned issues, which can be very easily walked around. I guess itīs a matter of wether you are willing to make certain compromises with a camera at this price point and I can very well understand that someone is not willing to do so.

    Good light!
    The color shift issue with NEX cameras is highly dependent on which NEX camera body and which lens you're talking about. Either way, NEX is a better indication of how Sony will proceed with a FF interchangeable mirrorless.

    The fixed lens aspect of the RX-1 is exactly what isn't easy to walk around, which is my point. Sony designed a lens that sits deep into the throat, a few mm away from the sensor, yet it has a relatively long exit pupil to sensor distance, and they had the option of custom sensor design and firmware for that lens/sensor combo. With all of those advantages over an interchangeable lens camera, the RX-1 still has a little bit of color shift.

    This is going to be a lot more difficult with an interchangeable lens version, and it'll require a big improvement in their sensor design (in terms of receiving oblique light rays,) or the lenses will be pretty large to allow for more telecentricity. They can't just make an interchangeable version of the Sonnar on the current RX-1. Think about how large the Sony/Zeiss 24/1.8 Sonnar for NEX is, and it is designed for only aps-c. A FF version would be relatively huge.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I do not think that is correct.
    I could be perfectly wrong, but the magenta cast examples that I have seen online were certainly nowhere near the results of the Nex7 with Contax G28 or 21 or the Cosina ultra-wides(to name just a few examples, plenty more lenses with serious issues), where many photos were basically ruined or needed serious processing to be saved. I havn't seen such a bad example with the RX1 where the resulting image was unusable. No arguing that the issue is there, but it's so mild to my eyes that it's not likely that it will be ruining many real life shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    The color shift issue with NEX cameras is highly dependent on which NEX camera body and which lens you're talking about. Either way, NEX is a better indication of how Sony will proceed with a FF interchangeable mirrorless.

    The fixed lens aspect of the RX-1 is exactly what isn't easy to walk around, which is my point. Sony designed a lens that sits deep into the throat, a few mm away from the sensor, yet it has a relatively long exit pupil to sensor distance, and they had the option of custom sensor design and firmware for that lens/sensor combo. With all of those advantages over an interchangeable lens camera, the RX-1 still has a little bit of color shift.

    This is going to be a lot more difficult with an interchangeable lens version, and it'll require a big improvement in their sensor design (in terms of receiving oblique light rays,) or the lenses will be pretty large to allow for more telecentricity. They can't just make an interchangeable version of the Sonnar on the current RX-1. Think about how large the Sony/Zeiss 24/1.8 Sonnar for NEX is, and it is designed for only aps-c. A FF version would be relatively huge.
    I understand, it might very well be a challenge. But I am convinced they will eventually come up with something. I am by no means an expert in optics, but something tells me that the FF Mirrorles we are talking about could very well not carry the E mount, which would leave Sony in the very weird scenario of having THREE lens mounts on their range. I could understand serious skepticism towards Sony keeping up with three different lens lines when the majority of Nex users(and many A mount users) feel kind of let down by Sony when it comes to lenses... The other rumour that seems to be running around about a "hybrid" lens mount carrying either E-mount lenses (cropped) OR A-mount lenses via adapter sounds completely wrong, at least to me...

    Good light!!
    Sony Nex7, Sigmarit DN 30/2.8 & DN 19/2.8, a couple Rokkors...

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    Re: FF NEX

    Douglas, I don't think anyone considers that, if Sony produces a small, mirrorless FF camera (and I believe they will, in about a year), it will be perfect in its rendition with all lenses. The question is -- how useful and effective will it be? The answer to this will be in the eye of the beholder, of course, but to many of us, who are quite happy with some of the NEX cameras and enjoy them despite their drawbacks with some lenses, it may well be particularly useful and effective. (I was going to qualify "drawbacks" with "occasional" or "minor," but of course, this too is different for each of us.)

    I'm one for whom a conventional DSLR (along with its lenses) is too large to be attractive. I simply cannot take it to many of the places I want to, and I find that the compromises with RF lenses (say) on the NEX are attractive relative to the compromises in size and weight with a DSLR. I think this may be the case with an FF mirrorless camera. Nettar

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    Re: FF NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Nettar View Post
    Douglas, I don't think anyone considers that, if Sony produces a small, mirrorless FF camera (and I believe they will, in about a year), it will be perfect in its rendition with all lenses. The question is -- how useful and effective will it be? The answer to this will be in the eye of the beholder, of course, but to many of us, who are quite happy with some of the NEX cameras and enjoy them despite their drawbacks with some lenses, it may well be particularly useful and effective. (I was going to qualify "drawbacks" with "occasional" or "minor," but of course, this too is different for each of us.)

    I'm one for whom a conventional DSLR (along with its lenses) is too large to be attractive. I simply cannot take it to many of the places I want to, and I find that the compromises with RF lenses (say) on the NEX are attractive relative to the compromises in size and weight with a DSLR. I think this may be the case with an FF mirrorless camera. Nettar
    Yeah, but M lenses will be much worse on a FF NEX than what we're seeing on current aps-c NEX cameras, and the VG-900 already shows that to be the case. I don't think Sony is particularly interested in going out of their way to make the cameras compliant with M lenses, and I can only imagine how large the FF Nex lenses will be, considering the size of many of the current, made for aps-c NEX lenses that we have.

    I'm not saying it won't happen, but, judging by what we've seen until now, Sony has some work to do.

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    Re: FF NEX

    Douglas, I appreciate your viewpoint, and I don't deny that there are uncertainties. I think you and I tend to draw our compromises somewhat differently, and so we reach different conclusions from the same evidence. I do see your point, but I interpret the signs a little differently.

    For example, Sony has learned, from their NEX experience, that their own compact lenses (e.g. the 16mm, but also other lenses -- see photozone's reviews) perform much better if their sensors handle acute light rays in a more friendly fashion. Therefore, to keep their own (hypothetical, I guess) FF NEX lenses within reasonable dimensions, and to optimise those lenses' performance, Sony is motivated to uses sensors of the type that I would like -- even if my interests are as far as possible from their mind. Also, there do seem to have been some NEX models in the past that were marketed with people like me at least partly in mind. Therefore it does not seem that I; or rather, the community of people like me; are completely off their radar. Let me mention too that the VG-900 and RX-1 use sensors that were not designed for compact lenses, which Sony surely would have in mind for any FF NEX.

    You can see, I think, that from much the same evidence, I draw an optimistic conclusion, while yours is more pessimistic -- and yet both are argued cogently, I believe.

    It's certainly an interesting time to be a photographer, and to attempt to predict the next advances in technology! Nettar
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    Re: FF NEX

    In all likelihood, Sony will come up with newer sensors and will not be using the run of the mills ones.

    Only when pushed they look for the need to make things.

    I was surprised when the nuclear disaster happened in Japan. Not a single robot capable of being used to do some exploration (in such conditions) was available and they got one gift shipped from Cambridge (where the first Robots were invented/made) for that. Only recently, many Japanese companies have been making robots for such specific tasks.
    Last edited by Vivek; 27th December 2012 at 03:41.

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    Re: FF NEX

    As much as I would love a FF NEX be working well with M lenses, I think there is NO reason for Sony to do that. Main reason for a FF mirrorless Sony (NEX) is to build a real modern competitor to the M which offers many things implemented in a better way than on the M and beyond. Only this way they can make sure that their new systems starts flying.

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    Re: FF NEX

    I would love to see Sony coming up with good lenses and a variety of lenses like many others do. If the Pentax FF rumors are correct, it will be one more FF camera other than the Nikon D600 that use the same Sony sensor for better effects and even better prices. I really hope some in Sony think in terms of the overall picture and not in terms of just the sensor or one body or a one flash.

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