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Thread: Speed booster for NEX

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Hi K-H, As you know, the bird-man knows that lens better than anyone out there.

    I look forward to your comparison. The 180/3.4 you mention though a true APO is not as sharp as the 280/4 APO (with the 280/4 being in a league of its own- the 180 is *very sharp* by most standards). It will be interesting to see how these pan out.

    Incidentally, I believe yours is the longest lens tested with the SB! Most of the original tests (AFAIK) were done with normals, wides and medium teles.

    I am still waiting for mine. The longest lens I currently have to test would be a 200/3.5 AF Nikkor (from F3AF). I got rid off all the long, heavy ones a while ago to stick with compact ones.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Hi Vivek,

    Thanks. That's interesting.
    I also have some old Leitz Telyts 200, 280, 400, 560 mm.
    Would any of those be of interest - other than of course to me?

    And then there is the Leitz Tele-Elmar 135/4 lens head that I could try as well.
    I like that lens a lot.

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Hi K-H, I think it will be interesting to check out the Telyts and the Tele-Elmar 135mm ( I plan to try my 3 element 90/4 Elmar and 135mm f/4.5 Hektor heads, along with a set of macro Summars, etc - some of my Macro Summars are also flat field lenses with infinity correction and are diffraction limited).

    If you look at the one of the advantages offered by the SB (as per the white paper), it is to make the incident light rays fall near perpendicular to the sensor plane. Most tele lenses already do that on their own with some better than the others.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Hi Vivek,

    Got you. Thanks.
    Did you see this link yet?

    Speed up your lens? - APS-C Mirrorless Systems - Nikongear.com - Page 6

    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Thanks, for the link, K-H.

    Yes, I am aware of that thread. It will be interesting to see what the "Bear", "Big Dane" and others find.

    "brianc1959" is Dr. Brian Caldwell. Incidentally, he is also a member here by that name.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Vivek,

    Thanks for the info.
    That's good to know.

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Hi Vivek,

    With regards to build quality I noticed, with the Speed Booster the distance scale on the APO 280/4 is off a bit.

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Hi,
    Very nice to see familiar names popping up here!!!

    Seems this new Speed Booster is popping up all the right places

    I don't have a 4/3 or NEX system but very interested anyway, as usual...

    Was going to see if I could take the optics from this new SB for Leica R and put it into a Nikon F to Leica M mount adapter, I have a Novoflex one just sitting around... but not sure the optics will fit without major Dremel work...

    Looking forward to see some images off and with the adapter.

    135 4 Tele Elmar M should make for an perfect test lens, can be easily fitted to almost every camera system,,,

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Hi Erik,

    Good to see you here!

    Despite your skills with a Dremel, the proposed adaptation will not be easy, I think.

    The mechanical implementation of the 4 element reducer is a key element of the SB if I understand it correctly. The Q.C. of SB is far more stringent than the corresponding plain adapters.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    I fully agree, it would be a major precision job!

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    I think it will not be possible as the adapter has to have the correct flange focal distance and the Leica M is too thick ! So you probably never be able to get any usable image.

    Regards
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I think it will not be possible as the adapter has to have the correct flange focal distance and the Leica M is too thick ! So you probably never be able to get any usable image.

    Regards
    Stefan
    Correct!

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    This is not my first conversion...
    Do you agree that if the SB extends into the Leica M body I would be able to make the correct flange to sensor distance?
    Sort of like the old Leica 21mm lenses does...

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Depends on how large in diameter the optics have to be to preserve an image circle large enough to cover the M sensor...

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Yes indeed Thats why the Novoflex is good for the job the Leica M mount is an integral part of the adapter.

    It will not cover the 1.33 sensor completely I'm afraid.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    As you say there are too many "IFs".
    The extension would probably need to go out of the adapterring for about 1 cm. Means you also have to cut the adaptering. Then as you say the imagecircle is probably only a bit larger than the projected Sony sensor so you would get A) a lot of work and B) a minimum result in return -> less resolution for a lot more money......
    All for a red dot on the Body ? ???

    regards
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Yes I will indeed completely remove the 'adapter' part incl mounts of the SB...
    As mentioned I could use a Novoflex Nikon F to Leica M adapter that has the correct flange to flange distance for Nikon F lenses. 0.5 mm from a leica R Lens

    Then position the SB optics inside the Novoflex in the correct position.

    The SB has threaded interface between the adapter and the optics for fine tuning the infinity setting for the exact same reason.

    My contraption would be no different in image quality than the SB Leica R to NEX

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lund View Post
    Yes I will indeed completely remove the 'adapter' part incl mounts of the SB...
    As mentioned I could use a Novoflex Nikon F to Leica M adapter that has the correct flange to flange distance for Nikon F lenses. 0.5 mm from a leica R Lens

    Then position the SB optics inside the Novoflex in the correct position.

    The SB has threaded interface between the adapter and the optics for fine tuning the infinity setting for the exact same reason.

    My contraption would be no different in image quality than the SB Leica R to NEX


    Hi Erik,

    More power to you.
    I wouldn't even know where to begin!
    What tools would you need?
    How many hours of effort do you estimate are required?

    Just curious!

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lund View Post
    This is not my first conversion...
    Do you agree that if the SB extends into the Leica M body I would be able to make the correct flange to sensor distance?
    Sort of like the old Leica 21mm lenses does...
    Is this the adapter you are talking about?



    The Novoflex LEINIK's aluminum portion is ~5mm. That (without that 5mm) is the correct distance with the SB in it (your calculations are off because the SB changes the registry distances). When you adapt as per your proposal, there is no room to put a Nikon F mount and maintain the correct registry distances. In addition, the mechanical intrusions from the Nikon F mount (lens part) are not trivial to deal with.

    So, even assuming that you manage to center the optics properly and align it correctly (not at all trivial unless you have a good optical bench set up!), it will fall short.

    However, all it takes is $400 and the time to try it.

    [OT: That image was taken with the Sigma DN 30/2.8 at f/5.6 on a NEX-6 with a diffuse flash. It is Moire' city!]

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Methinks the SB optics would not cover the M sensor even if all the physical dimension issues were resolved. Not to mention focus would be hit or miss until the Typ 240 is out. But good luck with it!

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Ok - if you speak of the M8 you may get a result - but why in the world would anyone want to invest that much money to get an old sensor with 10,3 Mpix working if even an old used Nex 5N body with 16Mpix will get better results ? And for the image circle of the M9 sensor it´s to small !
    Red Dot mania ?
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    No Vivek my adapter looks very different. Thanks for the reminder on the changed back focal length of the SB.

    It would take a few days to do, about the same time as converting an 125mm APO Lanthar from Canon FD mount to Nikon F with CPU or putting a CPU in a Noct-Nikkor
    Fully working as a G-Type lens.

    The Leica M8 with the full upgrade is a perfectly good Pro camera for me anyway.

    Yes it would be scale focusing and rangefinder only for one selected distance.

    I'll keep my project to my self, no need too make a fuss.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    :-) Eric

    Apologies - no offense intended.
    I actually like people who do their thing.... :-)

    But one thing: unless you will not modify the M8 body, you will still have to cut the Novoflex LEM/NIK NT for about the amount the back lens needs to get into the M body. The M is flange focal distance 27,80mm, the Nex is 18,25mm , makes a difference of 9,55mm I think it may even be more as the
    Metabones whitepaper states it shortens the actual length of the adapter lens combination with some mm. And then the cost is significant.
    The Novoflex adapter is 169 € the Metabones is 599 $+ taxes plus your work.

    regards
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    From K-H
    I also have some old Leitz Telyts 200, 280, 400, 560 mm.
    Would any of those be of interest - other than of course to me?
    ..........................

    I would love to know what you think about the longer lenses on the SB when you get around to doing that. So many possibilities here.
    John
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lund View Post
    I'll keep my project to my self, no need too make a fuss.
    Ah, please don't do that! I know your capabilities and do not underestimate you at all.

    Don't take Stefan's post to your heart. I do not think he meant any offence (as he himself says). He likes to take a dig at the "red dot" whenever he can.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Actually I like the S pretty much. But I was never a fan of the M´s,
    The lenses are a different story but the historic approach never made me drool. The finder of the S does. If any camera on the planet had such an optical finder, the discussion about electronic finders would be over.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    It's natural that our attention is drawn to speed-boosting FF lenses for APS-C format sensors. Clearly there is considerable demand for this. However, some of us who have large inventories of medium format lenses (and have FF digital cameras) are starting contemplate the possibilities there. Let me mention just one, although for a market that does not yet exist and may never be sufficiently large... Pentax is contemplating producing an FF digital body, and in the past it has marketed very good lenses for 6x4.5 and 6x7. It would certainly make me sit up straight, and pay attention, if my 6x7 lenses (I have a cupboard full!) could be speed-boosted to a Pentax FF body. Then there are my Mamiya lenses... But probably the small size of this market makes that sort of thing unrealistic, and the cost of producing a speed-booster for such a large format would be prohibitive. Nettar

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Something that people are saying is that why not just wait for a FF NEX rumoured for this year? It's a good question however given the pricing of the RX-1 I would assume that the Nex 7N or whatever even with this adaptor will still be significantly cheaper and probably noticeably smaller. What do you guys think?
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Right Beni, this is what I´d call the rational approach.

    Regards
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Nettar View Post
    It's natural that our attention is drawn to speed-boosting FF lenses for APS-C format sensors. Clearly there is considerable demand for this. However, some of us who have large inventories of medium format lenses (and have FF digital cameras) are starting contemplate the possibilities there. Let me mention just one, although for a market that does not yet exist and may never be sufficiently large... Pentax is contemplating producing an FF digital body, and in the past it has marketed very good lenses for 6x4.5 and 6x7. It would certainly make me sit up straight, and pay attention, if my 6x7 lenses (I have a cupboard full!) could be speed-boosted to a Pentax FF body. Then there are my Mamiya lenses... But probably the small size of this market makes that sort of thing unrealistic, and the cost of producing a speed-booster for such a large format would be prohibitive. Nettar
    Take a look through the link K-H posted (post #54 in this page). There are design constraints when dealing with cameras with long registries.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Ben
    I am also wondering about the pluses and minuses of a full frame Nex vs. a crop Nex with the speed booster. The FF even in crop mode might not work well with wider Contax G and M glass. If the FF Nex is optimized for full frame, wider G and M glass will likely have substantial color issues in the corners. In that case a crop Nex with the speed booster might have advantages for those who would like to use rangefinder glass and SLR glass on the same camera.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX - Vignetting!

    Quote Originally Posted by John Inglis View Post
    From K-H
    I also have some old Leitz Telyts 200, 280, 400, 560 mm.
    Would any of those be of interest - other than of course to me?
    ..........................

    I would love to know what you think about the longer lenses on the SB when you get around to doing that. So many possibilities here.
    John

    Here you go: Vignetting!

    Please see here: Metabones Speed Booster - Vignetting with Tele-Lenses: Sony NEX Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review


    Sony NEX-7 + Metabones Speed Booster + Leica APO-Telyt-R 1:4/280 @ ISO=100, 1/2000s, f=4, OOC JPG
    Attachment 68034


    Sony NEX-7 + Metabones Speed Booster + Leitz 14127 Adapter + Leitz Telyt-V 1:5.6/560 @ ISO=100, 1/500s, f=5.6, OOC JPG
    Attachment 68035

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Whats causing the vignette? Any ideas anyone?
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    K. H.
    Oh My,
    Thanks so much for doing this!!!

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    With that lens the image circle is not covering the sensor. I wouldn't think a tele of that length would be a normal application for the SB anyway.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Most likely some kind of barrel vignetting as the tele lenses probably have their first lens a bit inside the barrel. probably with Telezooms and IF focusing this will not occur.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    With that lens the image circle is not covering the sensor. I wouldn't think a tele of that length would be a normal application for the SB anyway.
    But it does not seem vignette on the M9. Isnt that full frame? Thought it should look similar or even less of a vignette due to the 1.06 crop. What kind of lenses are gonna struggle with the speed booster?

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    As I said- the effect is similar to what we get on the HCam. When the back lens is deep inside the barrel and the distance between Booster and virtual image will become too big, the barrel(in this case the border of the boosters lens mount) is going to be vignetting.
    Means: back Lens close to booster- no vignette
    tele lenses and shots at macro positions - vignetting.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by kainekainekaine View Post
    Whats causing the vignette? Any ideas anyone?

    No doubt in my mind, it's the Speed Booster.
    That 280/4 lens on the FF M9 doesn't show vignetting that pronounced, if at all.

    The way I look at this matter is that smaller than full frame sensors give long lenses the extra reach one typically desires.
    So, in that case an adapter and not the Speed Booster is the tool of choice.
    It doesn't make much sense to use the Speed Booster on long tele-lenses.

    However, I think the situation is completely different for short tele, normal, and wide angle lenses.
    Here the Speed Booster allows an APS-C size sensor to capture an image with a crop factor of a smidge less than 1.1x, much smaller than the 1.5x factor otherwise.

    This image was taken with NEX-7 + Speed Booster + Leitz Elmarit 1:2.8/90.

    Attachment 68037

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    I have a Carl Zeiss vario Sonnar 70-300mm and with this the back lens moves only a bit away from the level of the flange mount. So it will not vignette at 300mm. Real teles which have a rear lens element that is far away from the flange mount distance will vignette.
    So telezooms with IF focusing and comapact lenght will probably work no matter how long the focal length is.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    I can't speak to lenses that I don't have.
    It would be nice to know though how other lens designs work with the Speed Booster.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Take a look through the link K-H posted (post #54 in this page). There are design constraints when dealing with cameras with long registries.
    Thanks for your helpful response, Vivek. Nettar
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    K-H, Thanksfor the samples.

    One question: Did you use lens hoods for these shots?
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    K-H, Thanksfor the samples.

    One question: Did you use lens hoods for these shots?

    Hi Vivek,

    I did both, with and without.
    Didn't seem to make a difference.

    Best, K-H.

  45. #95
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    K-H, I see that you have explanations for your results with long tele lenses in the link. Thanks!

    Incidentally, they coincide with what Stefan speculated on the recessed lens placement.

    My question about the lens hood is a reminder that lenses become wider and hence the hoods used need to be chosen carefully to accommodate the increased FOV. This will be play a major role in case of the 50/1.2 lenses in particular, I think.



    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    EDIT: The longest lens I have, it turns out, is a Vivitar Series 1 (Perkin Elmer clone) 800mm f/11 catadioptric lens in T mount. I also happen to have a Canon EOS to T mount adapter.
    Last edited by Vivek; 19th January 2013 at 06:34.
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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    I´m curious about using this with a constant f2.8 zoom.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Tamron made a 28-200 f/2.8 manual focus zoom. I had a chance to buy one nearly a decade ago. Still regretting that missed chance.

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    No doubt in my mind, it's the Speed Booster.
    That 280/4 lens on the FF M9 doesn't show vignetting that pronounced, if at all.
    If you look at the white paper with the ray diagrams it explains how the image circle is reduced...

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    Re: Speed booster for NEX

    Can I ask you K-H whether you are seeing any sharpness degradation in the corners?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
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