Sony Rx1R, RX100 Mark ii, and Nex 9

[mmbma]

A flurry of rumors about Sony is popping up after a Japanese website leaked the User Manual for the upcoming Rx100 Mark ii. Apparently it features a new and improved sensor, support for EVF through a hotshoe, even better high ISO and wifi.


The RX1R will be the same RX1 but with the AA filter removed, like that of D800E vs. D800. and the NEX9 is rumored to be a full frame interchangeable, with a host of new lenses to accompany its launch. The date is targeted to be in October at the PhotoPlus show in NYC.

Anyone heard similar rumors? that Rx100 sounds appealing if ture.

 

[Vivek]

I am buying one each when possible. The RX1R sure is very interesting. So is the RX100 MKII.

NEX-9 may not show up soon though.

 

[douglasf13]

Yeah, I don't think we'll see a NEX-9 soon. The RX100 II looks like it has some nice upgrades.

I'm not really sure of the appeal of the RX1R, since the RX1 already shows moire relatively easily. AA-less cameras are starting to become a bit of a fad, because some see artifacts and false detail as "sharper." A proper sharpening routine should counter the effects of an AA filter.

What will be funny is if the RXR1 is more expensive than the RX1, considering good AA filters are actually somewhat pricey, in terms of sensor cost.

 

[Vivek]

Not if the RXR1 is like the D800E. Only the anti blur component will be absent.

For a P&S or compact with a fixed lens, this should not be a problem to begin with. Fine tune the resolution of the lens for the given sensor. Simple.

 

[douglasf13]

Not if the RXR1 is like the D800E. Only the anti blur component will be absent.

For a P&S or compact with a fixed lens, this should not be a problem to begin with. Fine tune the resolution of the lens for the given sensor. Simple.

I guess we don't know whether the RX1R will have no AA filter, or an AA canceling filter like the D800E. Either way, I still think it's a fad. The RX1 gets moire as it is, and there's a reason that the manufacturers use AA filters in the first place. Of course, when pixels get smaller, it'll be less of an issue, but we're not there yet. Moire often drove me crazy with my M9 and MFDB, although, due to performance at the periphery of the sensor, no AA was a necessary evil.

 

[Vivek]

Oh, well. I am in to that fad then.

I am definitely interested in the Ricoh GR compact and the RX-1R.

 

[douglasf13]

I shouldn't have said fad. That was immature on my part. Apparently, around 55-60mp (for FF sensors) will be the tipping point (or the current 24mp aps-c cameras) where the artifacts will be minimized enough, so I guess I'd be interested in the new aa-less Nikon D7100, if I were looking into aps-c DSLRs.

I was hoping the RXR1 would be 56MP (based off of the 24mp aps-c sensor) and AA-less. Now THAT would be a true resolution upgrade which would interest me.

p.s. and, of course, the lack of an AA in the Monochrom makes sense, too, because you're not dealing with the distances between red and blue pixels. Monochrom for the win!

 

[MPK2010]

I will be interested to see how the RX1R images look. The RX1 is proving to be great, despite my preference for 50 over 35. My only real complaint is the images are still just a little bit flatter than the non-AA cameras I have used (despite the better technical aspects of image quality). Not sure if that's due to AA or other aspects of sensor toppings, but if the result of removing the AA is I can get RX1 color, DR and lens rendering, but with just a bit more life-like presence to the images, I might be interested. We shall see.

 

[Vivek]

I will be interested to see how the RX1R images look. The RX1 is proving to be great, despite my preference for 50 over 35. My only real complaint is the images are still just a little bit flatter than the non-AA cameras I have used (despite the better technical aspects of image quality). Not sure if that's due to AA or other aspects of sensor toppings, but if the result of removing the AA is I can get RX1 color, DR and lens rendering, but with just a bit more life-like presence to the images, I might be interested. We shall see.

That is the issue with all the cameras. That undefinable something...

 

[Vivek]

I shouldn't have said fad. That was immature on my part. Apparently, around 55-60mp (for FF sensors) will be the tipping point (or the current 24mp aps-c cameras) where the artifacts will be minimized enough, so I guess I'd be interested in the new aa-less Nikon D7100, if I were looking into aps-c DSLRs.

I was hoping the RXR1 would be 56MP (based off of the 24mp aps-c sensor) and AA-less. Now THAT would be a true resolution upgrade which would interest me.

p.s. and, of course, the lack of an AA in the Monochrom makes sense, too, because you're not dealing with the distances between red and blue pixels. Monochrom for the win!

No worries, I like that word and what it means.

You know, photography itself, at some point, may become a fad, to me.

It is not just the lack of AA but how the pixels get interpreted in the software that is also important (even in the MM). While the MM has a monochrome sensor, it is not really a true monochrome camera. It is close though.

 

[hot]

I am very happy with NEX7 (and my other cameras), no desire for Sony Rx1R, RX100 Mark ii, and Nex 9/10/11.
For me FF is nogo, I do not need such things, no photo will be better. If others want spend their money - it's not MY money, hehe.
I do not need better sensor, not higher ISO, no new lenses.

It's interesting to see new features and technical development, but no reason to buy. I am not "must have" controlled.

 

[Vivek]

Hot, You should be the last person to be preaching such austerity.

Your money ( and of course it is yours) is spread all over the place.

 

[philber]

I am definitely interested in giving RX1-R a try (if it happens, for the time being, all we have is one SonyAlphaReport IMHO). I failed to love RX-1, for all its virtues, because of its performance at infinity. The absence of an AA-filter should help that, I imagine.
The other camera I shall be interested in is the 7 successor. If, as said in the same SonyAlphaRumours, Sony will not introduce upgrades unless they are "meaningful", then I will definitely be in.
OTOH, I don't believe in a FF NEX that would be trouble-free with third-party wide-angles, at least not for a while. So I am not holding my breath for it, though I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

 

[douglasf13]

It is not just the lack of AA but how the pixels get interpreted in the software that is also important (even in the MM).

Yeah, some people like the no-AA look, although it is actually further from reality than what an AA-equipped camera renders. I could go either way with the look, but I don't like the moire.

Joakim has explained it to me a couple of times. Here is one example, when he was speaking about the X-Pro1 last year. Will X-Pro1 lead to no more AA filters? - FM Forums

 

[Vivek]

While many are still averse to something like a brick wall test, yeah, bring on some power spectral analysis, FT and such. :ROTFL:

 

[mmbma]

I used a RX1 and for all of its strengths, I did not fall in love with it. I don't know, maybe it's the sony modern design or the consumer orientated UI or the clinical look and feel. It just didn't bond with me like the leica or the canon 1ds did. I guess I like a camera with obvious strength and quirks, rather than being almost perfect at everything, but not really at anything. For same reasons I sold the rx100 and went back to the S95.

 

[thompsonkirk]

SonyRumors says price will go up from RX-1 @ 212K Yen to RX-1R @ 250K Yen, which would be about $3280.

It must take a lot of delicate surgery to remove an AA filter!

EDIT – No, they were wrong about a price differential: price of RX1-R will be same as RX-1.

 

[Shashin]

Which dollar? Right now the yen is Y98 to $1US. That would make the new RX-2 about $2500.

 

[fultonpics]

hmm, the standard RX 1 is pretty sharp. Not sure I would want the filter removed--will wait for more reviews. I can't imagine you are really going to see any difference until you blow the images up to 200%. Plus wouldn't want to worry about moire in certain environments, one more thing to post correct. I suppose having a choice is nice, but not necessarily better or worse.


hope next time they improve the auto focus and the user interface screens. a more sturdy EV finder too. anyway a killer camera as is.

 

[ptomsu]

hmm, the standard RX 1 is pretty sharp. Not sure I would want the filter removed--will wait for more reviews. I can't imagine you are really going to see any difference until you blow the images up to 200%. Plus wouldn't want to worry about moire in certain environments, one more thing to post correct. I suppose having a choice is nice, but not necessarily better or worse.


hope next time they improve the auto focus and the user interface screens. a more sturdy EV finder too. anyway a killer camera as is.

I do not understand why you complain, you now have the option either AA or no AA filter. So use whatever you like?

Without AA is definitely giving sharper images as long as the lens(es) hold up to and moire has NEVER been an issue for me.