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View Poll Results: A7 or A7r

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  • A7

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  • A7r

    125 82.78%
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Thread: A7 or A7r

  1. #151
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoingo View Post
    Thats old news ;-)
    Hawks Factory sells these kind of adapters for years now via Ebay.

    I guees the voigtlaender one will be more solid but at 5 times the price...
    Well, yeah, the new news is that VL can now sell them to us for 5 times the price.

    I've heard about those hawks things getting loose with use, so here's hoping this one is made of solid unobtanium.

  2. #152
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    Marc,

    The skin tone I have seen from M photos with the newer firmware has more of a natural red tone and is more realistic to what skin with capillaries and the natural tone of the skin really looks like.

    Touched-up means the look of an image when the red is desaturated and the skin ends up with a more desaturated look. This is a good look and provides for visually pleasing color because subjects like not having red blemishes or red cheeks etc.. This is what looks unnatural in Sony color to me and what I mean by touched-up.

    As to your question of how I would deal with skin tones with the R lenses? They should look fine as the Sony skin tone is fine, just not natural. But, you are right, I would probably avoid taking pictures of people to some extent just due to the length of the Tele lenses and how I would tend to use them for landscape and nature. My use would be less so as long portrait lenses, although I love that look of models taken with long lens from way further back.

    Anyway, I don't want to get into a pissing contest about this one area of what I see between the photos taken from the M and Sony cameras... I was just trying to answer the question of the OP and take part in the survey of which camera I would chose and why. You don't have to bust my balls for having an opinion about color and why that would dictate my choice. This is why I don't come around here much and post over the last 5 years.

    Auni
    Fair enough. If you had attached some reasoning to the "touched up wedding comment" puncuated by an ... which I admittedly read as slightly condescending, then maybe I wouldn't have responded at all ... which isn't the same as agreeing with you BTW.

    I found that Sony cameras tend to favor the mid-tone spread which produces a more gentle and natural gradation with skin ... "tones" being the operative word, not just color and hue.

    Color whether vivid or subdued is highly influenced by the operator either while shooting, or after the fact. NO camera, including any Sony, renders red blemishes or rosey cheeks as desaturated ... they just aren't made worse due to a harder tonal contrast ... which can effect the red/orange palette faster and more severely.

    I've also observed that native color rendering can slightly differ between the Zeiss ZA lenses and the Sony lenses using identical WB settings in the same ambient light. For consistency, and ease of batching, I now only use the ZAs. The ZAs tend to produce a bit more native cool rendering ... all settings being equal.

    Leica may have adjusted the M response with new firmware, however there are still a significant number of people that feel it is still inconsistent and over-saturated requiring a lot of fiddling in post. Very reminiscent of the earlier S files with decent lighter skin tones and neon ears and hands.

    My subjective opinion is that they tried to make up for the loss of color depth and contrast punch of the M9 CCD rendering with a more abrupt tonal rendering from the M240 ... which can often produce a not found in nature "colorized" effect in the mid-tones.

    Yet, you are right, we all have different views of "reality". So we see it differently.

    As to someone responding with a counter opinion ... this is the Sony forum, what did you expect?

    - Marc

  3. #153
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    As to someone responding with a counter opinion ... this is the Sony forum, what did you expect?

    - Marc
    Expect? I expected you to be unbiased. Actually, I didn't expect that, I just hoped it. But, thank you, I now understand this is a Sony forum I posted on and I apologize. I understand that Leica owners are seen as having a condescending attitude, but that is just not me... I think.

    I want you to know that I have an RX1 and it a fantastic achievement from Sony. I like Sony products. I just wanted to participate in this thread because, I just bought the camera (A7R). I wanted to add my answer as to why I bought the camera and I am both a little excited about this camera, and like most, I'm trying to define this camera.

    As to the color comment I made: I was mistaken in using the wedding photographer analogy. Sorry. I thought this term would convey the concept of false skin color and over processed faces (under sharpened and under "clarity" processed, etc...) that I associate with wedding photography and i was associating with Sony color.

  4. #154
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    Expect? I expected you to be unbiased. Actually, I didn't expect that, I just hoped it. But, thank you, I now understand this is a Sony forum I posted on and I apologize. I understand that Leica owners are seen as having a condescending attitude, but that is just not me... I think.

    I want you to know that I have an RX1 and it a fantastic achievement from Sony. I like Sony products. I just wanted to participate in this thread because, I just bought the camera (A7R). I wanted to add my answer as to why I bought the camera and I am both a little excited about this camera, and like most, I'm trying to define this camera.

    As to the color comment I made: I was mistaken in using the wedding photographer analogy. Sorry. I thought this term would convey the concept of false skin color and over processed faces (under sharpened and under "clarity" processed, etc...) that I associate with wedding photography and i was associating with Sony color.
    Personally, I don't think anyone who engages in any creative endeavor is going to be unbiased, about what they do, or what they use to do it ... including you and I.

    I've been a professional wedding photographer for decades, and now do more portrait work than weddings as I semi-retire. All I can say is that your generalized characterization of wedding photography is dated, uninformed, and a wee bit condescending. The range of skill levels, styles and creative approaches is just as broad and diverse as any other form of photography practiced today.

    If a specific photographer choses to over process and under-saturate images, or push them to unnatural punch and eye-poping color, it isn't the camera doing it, they are. No camera does that on their own, including Sony.

    I explained my preference for Sony's tendency to favor mid-tone response because it helps in rendering the graduated subtleties of skin more realistically. You have a different take on it.

    I remain unconvinced regarding the M240 color or tonal bias. Not that I couldn't fix it in post, it is just that I don't want to put that much work into every image (an on-going and persistent comment, even from owners of the M240)... I also know from extensive experience that altering skin is one of the most difficult retouching efforts I can think of.

    So, the M240 is now the first M iteration I have passed on since the M4. I'll wait until it is all sorted out rather than struggle on as a beta tester for who knows how long. Been there, done that.

    - Marc
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  5. #155
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Link to Sony A7 vs A7r with a 12 mm lens.

    Quick samples from Sony A7 and A7r with 12mm Voigtlander! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

    I don't see the "special" angled corner touted from the 7r faring any better than the a7 - there is still some vignetting and (color shift?) on both versions.
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  6. #156
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Actually this is encouraging (regardless of A7/R). It actually looks about the same as from the NEX 5N or 6. Good!

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    A7 for me.

    I need AF speed in low light for concert work where I am handheld with slowish shutter speeds and high ISO.

    I get the demand for the A7r and have thought about it for portraits but will wait to see what else Sony cooks up in the future.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by roanjoh View Post
    Link to Sony A7 vs A7r with a 12 mm lens.

    Quick samples from Sony A7 and A7r with 12mm Voigtlander! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

    I don't see the "special" angled corner touted from the 7r faring any better than the a7 - there is still some vignetting and (color shift?) on both versions.
    Agreed. At least with this lens, the A7 looks par for the course - some vignetting and color shift but the edges look pretty darn detailed.

  9. #159
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    http://cityusam01.blogspot.tw/2013/1...a7-ilce-7.html


    Really impressive (I am impressed) performance of the A7 with LTM/M lenses.

    A Russar 20/5.6 (as symmetrical as a lens gets) !! That is impressive!

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    http://cityusam01.blogspot.tw/2013/1...a7-ilce-7.html


    Really impressive (I am impressed) performance of the A7 with LTM/M lenses.

    A Russar 20/5.6 (as symmetrical as a lens gets) !! That is impressive!
    Are we looking at the same picture? The iPad in the bottom right hand corner is so smeared that it looks like it is moving on its own.
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  11. #161
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Yes. That isn't an iPad but a Xperia phone (smaller).

    This is as good as this lens can do in the corners on most cameras.
    Last edited by Vivek; 26th October 2013 at 14:48.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Apart from the specifications (e.g. offset micro lenses on the A7R), there is no real evidence that rangefinder lenses produce less "red edge" on the A7R than on the A7. For example, in the series Quick samples from Sony A7 and A7r with 12mm Voigtlander! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS and

    攝影人二三事: Sony A7 ILCE-7 初試後感及手動鏡分享

    there are arguably more problems with red edge on the A7R. However, in neither of these series is there a direct comparison of the same scene with with the same lens.

    There is even less evidence in relation to edge resolution, although I think we are agreed that, based on specifications, one would expect the A7R to give more favourable results. Nettar

  13. #163
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Nettar, The samples from Taiwan were RAW captures processed through Sony IDC. The one from the CV 12 were jpgs out of camera. They are very different to make any conclusions.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I agree. However, if we were to compare the A7R and A7 results in each of those trials -- not comparing the trials with one another, but rather making a comparison within the trials (I was not suggesting that we make a comparison between the trials) -- we would find precious little to support the hypothesis that the A7R suffers less from red edge than the A7. Nettar

  15. #165
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Here there is a set of pics taken with A7R and CV, 12, CV15 and CV21.Flickr Search: a7r
    Ario
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Thanks very much, Ario! Looks like A7R images need a bit of work if one is to use those particular lenses. It seems that the pixel wells are deep relative to their width. There is a slight amount of edge smearing too. Nettar
    Last edited by Nettar; 26th October 2013 at 23:39.
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    P.S. The lens was not focused at infinity for those images, and the problems will be a little worse with infinity focus. However, that CV21mm lens has its nodal point relatively close to the focal plane, and certain other 21s will presumably fare better.

    I'm a little surprised that the 12mm lens didn't do a little better -- it's not as much a problem child as its 15mm sibling, which performed pretty much as we'd have expected, I think.

    P.P.S. Thank you again, Ario. That Flckr web page is going to get a lot of traffic! Nettar
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  18. #168
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Nettar View Post
    Thanks very much, Ario! Looks like A7R images need a bit of work if one is to use those particular lenses. It seems that the pixel wells are deep relative to their width. There is a slight amount of edge smearing too. Nettar
    The images reminds me of the Espon RD1s (APS-C) images with these lenses. This is a big leap for the full frame sensor.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The images reminds me of the Espon RD1s (APS-C) images with these lenses. This is a big leap for the full frame sensor.
    Ah, wish I could remember more of that. In those days I was interested almost solely in film, mainly medium and large format.

    I've often pondered the ironic good fortune that SLR designers have had. Forced by that darned mirror box to design retrofocal lenses, and to meet all the resolution challenges that that involved, they cannot have known that this would put them in the box seat at the dawn of digital photography, and that their hard-earned retrofocal skills would give them so many advantages. Nettar

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I had a 4x5 and 5x7 at that time too. One lens (75/4.5 Biogon) was no match (weight, bulk) for Epson RD-1s plus a few lenses, including a Canon 50/0.95.
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  21. #171
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Day Two: Sony A7 and A7r with Zeiss Otus and more! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

    - Yet another article that solidifies my choice towards the A7 - no color-shift on wide angle lenses (I'm talking 21 ZM), a more quiet shutter and faster AF..........and of course, cheaper! WAHOO! If I need resolution, I will invest on a 7r when the prices head south.


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    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Two points...

    (1) Steve Huff has tested, among other lenses, the Voigtlander 28mm f/2 lens on the A7 and A7R My 1st look wrap up of the Sony A7 and A7r cameras! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS . He notes that it has issues. Specifically, "If shooting lenses such as the crazy 12mm Voigtlander or the 15mm or a Zeiss 21 2.8 or Voigtlander 28 f/2 you will see different degrees of either Vignetting or Color issues on the edges." Both those problems are clear from his images, although I'm sure he'd be the first to admit that the "target" he used was not ideal. He was obviously pushed for time. Now, there's a bit of unhappiness around the web about the fact that he has not tested more lenses than that, but I think you can learn a reasonable amount, from Huff's work, about other 28s, specifically those made by Leica, if you go to Ken Rockwell's "Peripheral Color and Lens Profile" page Voigtlnder 28mm f/2 Ultron Review , in his review of the CV 28mm f/2.

    You have to mentally reverse engineer those profiles, but you can deduce from them that: (a) In terms of vignetting, etc, the CV 28 f/2 is about the same as two non-contemporary Leica 28mm f/2.8 lenses (with code Nos. 11804 and 11809; I'm not familiar with Leica's numbering). You can deduce this because, when Mr Rockwell used those lens profiles for the CV 28 f/2, he obtained almost complete correction. (b) The 28-35-50mm f/4 MATE, the 28mm f/2 ASPH, and the 28mm f/2.8 ASPH lenses, *in this order*, suffer decreasing amounts of the "Vignetting or Color issues on the edges" noted by Mr Huff. You can deduce this because the profiles for those lenses provide decreasingly less correction for the CV 28 f/2, and so their respective profiles provide those lenses too with decreasingly less correction.^{1,2}

    (2) There has been here, on this site, interesting and helpful discussion of Sony's lens correction app http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/490...rrections.html . However, the discussion seemed, essentially, to conclude with the suggestion that the app addresses only jpg files. However, over at FM there has been debate about that very issue, and it has been stated that whether the effects are visible on raw files, or not, depends on which raw developer you are using. If this is the case, then the attraction of the A7R may depend on how good the app is, and whether manufacturers like LR, PS and C1 will adjust their software so that it can "see" the effects of the app on raw files. Assuming that the whole thing works well -- and that involves a leap of faith -- I'd imagine that enthusiasts such as ourselves would share corrections, just as Leica codes for non-Leica lenses were shared when the M9 came out. Nettar

    Notes:
    1. These comments are, I think, reasonably accurate in connection with vignetting, but they may not be as accurate for colour correction.
    2. It may be possible to do something similar for, say, 21mm lenses, but I could not find appropriate profiles. I have a personal interest in the 28mm case!

  24. #174
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I voted for the A7; 24MP is enough for my work, arguments re. cropping capacity and the advantages of downsizing from 36MP notwithstanding. The quieter shutter will be a major plus for me.

    The A7 with a CV 40/1.4 will be a perfect go-everywhere camera for me. The Panny GX7 with the 20/1.7 is that now (I use a pair for video shoots).

    Many here have been looking for the perfect camera for alt glass; I have a few decent Oly and CV M-mount lenses that have never been entirely happy on either the NEX bodies or the 4/3rds bodies. And I have two Hawk helicoid adapter, too…

    The problems with the CV 12/5.6 (I have an excellent copy) might just be enough to push me over to C1Pro 7 once and for all; the LCC tab once set up should take care of much, if not all, of these problems for when ultra wide is needed.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Ultra Wide Angle M-Mount Lenses THAT WORK On Sony A7R

    Ah the WATE - my favorite WA lens.
    Does it come to the rescue of the A7R?
    Well, I am going to find out too as soon as I have my A7R!

    Another potential option? CV 21/1.8

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1247673/52. Page 53 and 54.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    And you have a lovely surroundings to put that combo to use!
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Thanks Vivek. I certainly do!
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Ultra Wide Angle M-Mount Lenses THAT WORK On Sony A7R

    Ah the WATE - my favorite WA lens.
    Does it come to the rescue of the A7R?
    Well, I am going to find out too as soon as I have my A7R!

    Another potential option? CV 21/1.8

    A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums. Page 53 and 54.
    Yes, the CV 21 1.8 is an outstanding lens and I'm hoping that it will not present any problems on the A7R. I use it on the M9 and NEX6 and performance is excellent on both with no edge/corner issues. Another good one is the 28 1.9 Ultron that has none of the edge issues that the 28 2 has.
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    ...the A7; 24MP is enough..quieter shutter will be a major plus... A7 with a CV 40/1.4 will be a perfect go-everywhere camera for me...Oly and CV M-mount lenses..
    Kit - Similarly, my first thoughts were Sony A7/A7r with C.V. 40mm. It's odd that Sony stuck a blur filter on the A7; it's hardly likely [?] that purchasers won't be doing post production ------ unless I've misunderstood who their target group is. I too have cherished Olympus OM lenses and was wondering which would be the best route for mounting on the Sonys [e.g. Metabones don't seem to have an adapter]?.

    . Chris

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I am only going to be using my "cheap" adapters (FWIW, the problem is with the NEX mount on the camera side, them being plastic. I hope the A7/7R mounts are better constructed).

    This is going to be interesting, especially in light of the medium format digi back companies claiming nano meter tolerance requirements and all.
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    The CV 21/1.8 is the one I am really curious about on the A7r. Did not find any conformation on that one yet.

    First I am going to test my 20mm FD en Minolta MD lens on it.
    Also will test 5 24mm lenses on it. (Just bought a 24 KM lens for cheap )
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Im really curious about the performance of the (my) Leica 24mm f 3.8 Elmar-M Asph.
    This tiny lens should be "ber" sharp like it was on the Nex 5 / 5n ...
    Hopefully the Cameras will ship in November ;-)

  33. #183
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I think I am going for the A7 and not the R. I can live with the AA filter, it's not the end of them world. I ordered the body and the FE 35, I will also use my Zeiss 50/2 ZM and 85/4 ZM nice small 3 lens kit. I don't shot WA very much.
    36MP yeah pretty cool but also very demanding on everything, the reason why I sold My D800/e it took just as long to shoot that system as it does with my MF Tech View Camera. So I stuck with that.
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Why do I prefer 36 MP over 24 MP for the A7/R?

    Case in point. Today cranes were migrating in larger numbers right above our house in the afternoon.
    They have to fly only a few more hours to reach the Bosque del Apache National Wildlife Refuge, NM, USA.
    Here is an image taken with Nikon D800E + AF-S Nikkor 80-400mm 1:4.5-5.6G ED @ 400mm, f/5.6, ISO 560, 1/2000 s handheld.

    First a slightly cropped image showing most of one of the smaller flock of cranes.


    Then a 100% crop from the central part of the above image, giving a pretty detailed view of the cranes individually.


    What the A7R offers is to get these kinds of shots with unmodified R lenses, with the help of a simple adapter.
    That's what I like.
    With best regards, K-H.
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  35. #185
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    [QUOTE=k-hawinkler;546299]Ultra Wide Angle M-Mount Lenses THAT WORK On Sony A7R

    This blog mentions the Zeiss 15 2.8 ZF.2 needing an additional adaptor. Would be very keen to know what that might be? Would be one lens I would love to use on A7r. Just had contact from shop I am on list with and they say they should have delivery starting 22/11
    David
    Auckland, NZ.

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    I have a bunch of Zeiss Contax G lenses, including the 21mm and 28mm and would really like to use them on a FF body. The A7 and A7r sounds very interesting, but I will wait to hear more about them before making any choice. I don't care for lots of pixels, but rather for DR and clean noiseless sharp pictures at base ISO; this what I'd appreciate in a FF body. Too many pixels are just a hassle to handle and to store on disks.
    Spot on. For my printing purposes (A3+ at most) 24mp is enough. But 36mp does give more latitude to crop. My principle reason for wanting one of these is so that I can use legacy lenses although I shall certainly watch to see how the 24-70/4 behaves. The SLR Minolta MD and Olympus OM are small enough (unlike modern DSLR lenses and even Leica R) as, of course, are the Leica M-mount lenses. Now I am pretty clear that the former will work fine on either, even at the wider end - my Minolta MD 24/2.8 works well on my NEX7, for instance. But what about the LM lenses? There have been plenty of opinions, some conflicting. Steve Huff suggests they will be better on the A7; others say the A7R. If pixel density is the defining factor, which it probably is not, then the A7 will be better, rather like the NEX5N/6 is much more forgiving than the NEX7. But is it? Until we get some proper testing I think we are just going to have to wait and see.
    Last edited by waterden; 13th November 2013 at 15:23.

  37. #187
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    A7/A7R Resource Thread - FM Forums

    Size comparison of different 2013 cameras.
    With best regards, K-H.

  38. #188
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Interesting results! I didn't expect them to be favoring the A7R this heavily.

    I own a D800E, and I'm looking for a camera that can deliver identical image quality in a smaller package. So the A7R is the obvious choice for me. For now, I will use my existing MF glass (VM, ZM, ZF, C/Y and Leica-R) with it, but I am eagerly looking forward to Zeiss' manual-focus FE lens line-up next year. I'm also curious how well the FE 4/24-70 ZA will perform. If it does well, it may be a very handy all-round lens, and likely one of the very few AF lenses I would buy for the system.

    I should add that I am also considering using the A7R for underwater photography. The combination of high image quality and compact size is of great advantage in this space, as well. Anyone who's dealt with DSLR underwater housings will know what I mean...
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Just ordered an A7R. Have an unused 24-70mm F/2.8 Zeiss gathering dust from when I owned an A900 and the first version of the official Sony A to E mount adapter I should be able to use with the A7R and 24-70mm
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, leading individual, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Just ordered an A7R. Have an unused 24-70mm F/2.8 Zeiss gathering dust from when I owned an A900 and the first version of the official Sony A to E mount adapter I should be able to use with the A7R and 24-70mm
    That one works only in APS-C crop mode though.

    Cheers,

    N
    A and E mount Too many lenses.

  41. #191
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Just ordered an A7R. Have an unused 24-70mm F/2.8 Zeiss gathering dust from when I owned an A900 and the first version of the official Sony A to E mount adapter I should be able to use with the A7R and 24-70mm
    Quentin,
    Yikes, Zeiss 24-70/2.8 A mount using the Sony A to E mount sounds cool, but for me it kills the whole purpose of the A7/A7R, this combination is going to be really big and heavy and not well balanced, and not to mention using an adaptor on a 36mp FF camera. I think you will loose IQ because of the adaptor.

    Personally I would sell your 24-70 A mount and order the yet to be shipping E mount 24-70/4, yeah its 1 stop slower but size wise and probably better IQ.

    I don't know just my 2 cents.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Having had A7 for a week....mainly using adapters for my Nikkor lenses.. I bought A7 because of
    1 abundant stock
    2. less expensive price
    3. kit lens availability
    4. faster AF
    5. faster fps

    after all...I believe I really miss 36MP images from D800 and probably from A7r

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by BackToSlr View Post
    That one works only in APS-C crop mode though.

    Cheers,

    N
    This is not correct. The ZA 24-70/2.8 if a FF zoom that stays FF on the A900, A99, and now the A7/A7R.

    - Marc

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Quentin,
    Yikes, Zeiss 24-70/2.8 A mount using the Sony A to E mount sounds cool, but for me it kills the whole purpose of the A7/A7R, this combination is going to be really big and heavy and not well balanced, and not to mention using an adaptor on a 36mp FF camera. I think you will loose IQ because of the adaptor.

    Personally I would sell your 24-70 A mount and order the yet to be shipping E mount 24-70/4, yeah its 1 stop slower but size wise and probably better IQ.

    I don't know just my 2 cents.
    Assuming it is well made, why would a glassless adapter lose IQ?

    Yes, the ZA Zooms are big and heavy. I tried my ZA 16-35 on the A7R and it handled fine ... all you are doing is cradling the lens in your left hand and camera doesn't even matter.

    It also greatly depends on whether you have other Sony 35mm DSLR cameras. Personally, I functionally still like my A99 better than this A7R camera ... since I shoot mostly hand-held, I seriously wonder if the inclusion of in-camera steady shot will be a real-world equalizer when comparing its' 24 meg to the A7R's 36 meg?

    Which means all my fast aperture ZA lenses aren't going anywhere soon. I sure the heck am not giving up the huge but deliciously wonderful ZA135/1.8. Nor do I view this A7R as a replacement for the A99. I WILL not shoot key paying work with a single card camera anymore ... the A99 is dual card, and the A7R is not.

    While "personal comfort" is a worthy attribute of demure size, it isn't everything when it comes to making images.

    - Marc

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I thought this would be an easy decision. I'm still confused.

  46. #196
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    So I went from A7r to both...
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com
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  47. #197
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I think Steve Huff sums it up well (paraphrasing): if you do street photography or anything moderately fast-paced, get the A7. If you do very carefully composed work and/or often work from a tripod, get the A7R. I think he's just about spot on.

    For the full review, see here: The Sony A7 and A7r Camera Review by Steve Huff | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    I'm not so sure I agree with that ... at least not completely.

    36 meg may put more demand on technique, but it isn't that huge of a difference. I use a 40 meg MFD camera handheld all the time.

    The high ISO allows the choice of a higher shutter speed, and if you down sample a 36 meg file to equal the 24 meg, I doubt you'd see much difference.

    I have no intention of confining the A7R to a tripod ... and any situation where one would be needed, it'd probably be needed for the A7 also.

    36 meg seems huge right now ... bet in 2 years or so, it'll be medium res ... just like 24 meg is now. When the 24 meg cameras came out, everyone said the same thing compared to a 16 meg camera.

    - Marc
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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    I think Steve Huff sums it up well (paraphrasing): if you do street photography or anything moderately fast-paced, get the A7. If you do very carefully composed work and/or often work from a tripod, get the A7R. I think he's just about spot on.

    For the full review, see here: The Sony A7 and A7r Camera Review by Steve Huff | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS
    I do street snaps, handheld and I find the the A7R a bit too easy to handle. BTW, coffee is my favorite beverage (possibly the only beverage I drink all day).

    I agree with what Marc said. It is a bunch of bull about a demanding A7R. If anyone snapped with a NEX-6 handheld then the A7R is even much easier because of the better ergonomics.

    Also, one guy posted an analysis of Stve Huff's review (sonyalpharumors). You should check it out. Hilarious. :-)

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    Re: A7 or A7r

    Just to reinforce my predictions, I just was made aware of this:

    (SR4) First specs about the new Sony 54 Megapixel Full Frame sensor! | sonyalpharumors

    So, 36 meg will become average ... every Joe-Schmo will have one ...

    - Marc

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