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Glad I resisted the urge to upgrade to the M240

tashley

Subscriber Member
I have no experience shooting with an M240 with EVF. But I found focussing accuracy to be very high when shooting my 50 LUX ASPH on an NEX7. In fact, I was achieving a higher number of accurately focussed shots with this combo than with my M9. This was possibly due to the point of focus being thrown out whenever I focussed/recomposed with the M9.
It does depend on whether you focus wide open or stopped down and the 50 Lux is quite a well-behaved lens. Try the same with the 35 Lux on a planar subject and you will weep! I have found my M240 RF to be in a different league of accuracy and consistency than any previous digital M.
 
Regarding comparisons between the A7/r and the EM-1, you have to keep in mind that one is a totally new product with only 10 lenses planned by end of next year, the other is in it's umpteenth iteration with over 50 lenses across Panny and Olympus and other parties.

I for one can't wait to see what the A7II will bring.
 

lambert

New member
A very true and fair point. I wish the M240 point was selectable and the thought of that possibility on the Sony cameras is very tempting. I should also add that if using an M lens with an EVF, it is generally the case that focussing wide open with an EVF then stopping down to shoot will give a result very similar to the RF.
I've been pretty much shooting continuously with an M RF camera since the 1990's and even with this limitation I would still buy an M240 if the price difference between it and the A7R was not so vast. But in Australia, the A7R will sell for 1/4 the price of a similarly equipped M240 ($2500 vs $10000).
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
About Leica Users - yes I admit I don´t understand them. I have some friends who repeatedly tried to convert me, but I am probably to "practical" "technical" or whatever to understand the value for the money.

I used the M240 for 2 weeks recently for testing and I really liked the sensor quality and the lenses, but again - for me the rangefinder is nearly worthless.

In my article(and on Brian Hirschfields page where I also wrote review about that) I asked why Leica would not make something like an M-mini without the rangefinder, without the glitches described here and at a better pricepoint.
That is apparently built by Sony now and it´s called A7, the A7r is even going further and taking the large volume, massproduction for an unbeatable MPix for the money ratio.

I am just interpolating the idea of Leica competing with this and running into a 2-3x price gap and then all the other stuff I wrote seem logical to me.

But of course logics are not everything..... :)

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
 

fotografz

Well-known member
About Leica Users - yes I admit I don´t understand them. I have some friends who repeatedly tried to convert me, but I am probably to "practical" "technical" or whatever to understand the value for the money.

I used the M240 for 2 weeks recently for testing and I really liked the sensor quality and the lenses, but again - for me the rangefinder is nearly worthless.

In my article(and on Brian Hirschfields page where I also wrote review about that) I asked why Leica would not make something like an M-mini without the rangefinder, without the glitches described here and at a better pricepoint.
That is apparently built by Sony now and it´s called A7, the A7r is even going further and taking the large volume, massproduction for an unbeatable MPix for the money ratio.

I am just interpolating the idea of Leica competing with this and running into a 2-3x price gap and then all the other stuff I wrote seem logical to me.

But of course logics are not everything..... :)

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
No Stefan, it is not the rangefinder user that you do not understand ... the rangefinder camera and the rangefinder way of thinking itself is where you miss the point. ;)

Even many rangefinder users miss the point, which is why they keep asking for a bunch of junk to be stuffed into, and glued onto, the M camera. Now the damed thing shoots movies :thumbdown:

- Marc
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Am I the only one enjoying the M Type 240 with optical viewfinder and sensor optimized for M lenses without feeling any wish to replace it with an EVF-camera we know only from paper?
 

ohnri

New member
I've been shooting Leica RF for a long time and as recently as the M9 was still using it for action photography.

For me, the RF is the best focusing method ever devised for the 35 to 75 mm focal length range.

That is, when it is perfectly set up, matched to the lens, not misaligned by any handling of the camera, there is enough light, but not too much direct light, enough viewfinder magnification, no discernible focus shift, the subject is dead center, the subject is nearly stationary, did I mention not misaligned by any touching of the camera?

The only M lens I kept was my much loved Noct 50mm f/1.

I am hopeful that my forthcoming A7R will allow me to use it again.

I have no doubt that a high quality FF, mirrorless camera will eventually allow me to use the Noct more easily and in more situations than I ever could with my Leica body. The A7R might be that camera. I shall see soon enough.

I will say that after a lifetime of using Leica RF cameras I am saddened that the current pricing structure seems to put them far outside the range where any justification other than pleasure can be found for my continued purchases. I am not knocking pleasure as a reason to buy a camera, just saying that it is not enough for me to buy the current Leica cameras.

Best,

Bill
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Hm, I am not sure what you are saying?
Well, you wrote about enjoying using a complete camera system and don't feel the need to replace it with a camera we only know about as much as the previews and spec sheets have shown us.

I attempted to make a humorous comparison to back when the D800 was first announced and everyone already shooting medium format didn't feel the need replace their systems, judging just by the initial specs and awful photos Nikon posted on their site.

This is a jab at all the D800 vs MF talk that happened as a result.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Thanks Steen :D

BTW I wish I could claim that it is modesty but there is a strict forum rule forbidding members from promoting their own blogs... but generally when I state something categorically it is because I have written about it somewhere having first done a fair amount of testing...
Personally, I have no quarrel with someone preferring one system over another. We know our needs and there is no reason to justify our choices to anyone. For example, I feel that way about my Leica S2 kit ... and any logic to the contrary be damned.

Yet, you must admit that 9 of your list of 11 perceived or potential benefits could now be applied to this new a7R and 6 of them now supersede the M240.:eek:

1) Access to not only M lenses but also pretty much any lenses via adaptors. Same for the a7R, but also includes AF lenses of many types and brands.

2) Small size, low weight, amazing ratio of these things to image quality. Now superseded by a small camera with a new 36 meg FF sensor.

3) M wins

4) A 'current market standard' pixel count. A7R introduces the new market standard pixel count.

5) Better high ISO performance than previous Ms. Based on preliminary a7R samples, better ISO performance than any M.

6) More DR than previous digital Ms. Based on DR performance of the Nikon D800, the possibility exists this will be also superseded.

7) Same

8) M wins

9) Live View and EVF for focus rather than the (in my experience) unreliable rangefinders in previous digital Ms. Ditto the a7R, but with a higher res built-in EVF and a tilting LCD.

10) Same

11) Same

;)
IMO, no more justification is needed than to say the M240 is a FF rangefinder camera, and the M digital remains the only one. If color rangefinder work were of paramount importance to me (it isn't, B&W is), then it would still be the only game in town.

- Marc
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Well, you wrote about enjoying using a complete camera system and don't feel the need to replace it with a camera we only know about as much as the previews and spec sheets have shown us.

I attempted to make a humorous comparison to back when the D800 was first announced and everyone already shooting medium format didn't feel the need replace their systems, judging just by the initial specs and awful photos Nikon posted on their site.

This is a jab at all the D800 vs MF talk that happened as a result.
And I still believe, as nice as the D800 is, it is not a (full) replacement for MF gear. Its a different camera/system, faster and more flexible to use with a slight (?) compromise in IQ.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
You folks have beaten me down. I'm going to go home, load my Spectra, and concentrate on eight glorious moments of instant print photography rather than techno-Leica-Sony quibbling. ]:)

G
 
V

Vivek

Guest
You folks have beaten me down. I'm going to go home, load my Spectra, and concentrate on eight glorious moments of instant print photography rather than techno-Leica-Sony quibbling. ]:)

G
Godfrey, you disappoint!:D
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I've been shooting Leica RF for a long time and as recently as the M9 was still using it for action photography.

For me, the RF is the best focusing method ever devised for the 35 to 75 mm focal length range.

That is, when it is perfectly set up, matched to the lens, not misaligned by any handling of the camera, there is enough light, but not too much direct light, enough viewfinder magnification, no discernible focus shift, the subject is dead center, the subject is nearly stationary, did I mention not misaligned by any touching of the camera?

The only M lens I kept was my much loved Noct 50mm f/1.

I am hopeful that my forthcoming A7R will allow me to use it again.

I have no doubt that a high quality FF, mirrorless camera will eventually allow me to use the Noct more easily and in more situations than I ever could with my Leica body. The A7R might be that camera. I shall see soon enough.

I will say that after a lifetime of using Leica RF cameras I am saddened that the current pricing structure seems to put them far outside the range where any justification other than pleasure can be found for my continued purchases. I am not knocking pleasure as a reason to buy a camera, just saying that it is not enough for me to buy the current Leica cameras.

Best,

Bill
Hi Bill,
my justification is that I can focus much better with the rangefinder than with an EVF (if we talk manual focus) and that I can see the subject in real time/light/color/brightness.
The price for Leica bodies is high, the value of Leica lenses seems very stable compared to other brands.
The pleasure is a nice add on IMO.

I will stop now posting opinion about Leica in a Sony thread. I just found the title of the Op somewhat confusing. If the title had been "I am looking forward to the new Sony mirrorless" I wouldnt even have posted here.
 

douglasf13

New member
Trust me it is absolutely true. I and quite a few other people noticed it and then I tested for it extensively and consulted with some very large minds and then I wrote it all up. I have 99.9% faith in it.
I've read your piece before, and it doesn't make sense. It assumes that all lenses have the same field curvature. The very flat field 50/2 AA would have issues if this was the case. Rangefinders, which I love using BTW, can't even deal with focus shift (which is why a lot of lenses front focus at mfd when the rangefinder is calibrated properly,) let alone magically determine where the best part of the focus plane is at any distance.

Either way, it isn't applicable to the A7/r, since you can move the live view magnification box around to any spot you want. Or, you can just focus without magnification at all with that high res EVF.
 
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