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Thread: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    There is a difference between "cheap" and inexpensive, K-H. None of the inexpensive adapters I use on the NEX are "cheap". They are all finely machined metal pieces.

    When Novoflex will not take back a faulty piece then it not only become expensive but "costly" as well.

    Did you get a refund from Metabones?

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Well, by your definition I then got some cheap stuff that wasn't inexpensive.
    All Metabones offered was a refund but not a replacement.
    I guess that saves them postage.

    I have no connection with Novoflex other than as a customer.
    I would say their adapters are pretty pricey but worth it to me.
    If Novoflex has poor business practices then shame on them.
    I didn't buy my gear directly from them but from B&H.
    In my experience they have excellent business practices.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    That is great! Some of these adapter makers (unlike Novoflex and such) are not only making them just for money but are also classic nuts and photography enthusiasts. They are open to constructive suggestions and are helpful. Jinfinances (eBay), for example, has made custom stuff for me (just single piece). Hawk Peng, similar story. I will probably get a Summarit 40mm f/2.4 custom mounted for Leica M from MS Opticals.

    Different strokes for different folks.
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Thanks. I would add Phigmenttech to the list of innovative adapter makers!

    https://www.phigmenttech.ca/lmnex/in...p?page=product
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Seems like I derailed this thread a bit - sorry about that!

    Back to the original topic: I, too, am truly excited about the A7R, and I'm curious to see how my Biogons will fare with its sensor. Looks like the 2.8/21 won't be so good, but I'm hoping the 2.8/35 will work well. This lens draws very nicely (at least from what I can see on APS-C), and it is really small and light.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    I would say get the Rigid.

    These 2 images were shot wide open and it was near perfect in terms of sharpness edge-to-edge at 5.6.






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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Looks like the a7r with 28/2 works OK from what I can see on screen.

    A7R

    plus this

    Comparison of Leica M240 & Sony A7 & Sony A7R - a set on Flickr
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by teeraash View Post
    I would say get the Rigid.

    These 2 images were shot wide open and it was near perfect in terms of sharpness edge-to-edge at 5.6.
    Looks promising! But I think I'll stick with my Planar 2/50...

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Has anyone seen A7/R sample images taken with the Distagon ZM 4/18? I'm curious how this lens will fare. There is some color shift when used on the M9, I believe...

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Has anyone seen A7/R sample images taken with the Distagon ZM 4/18? I'm curious how this lens will fare. There is some color shift when used on the M9, I believe...
    Follow the link to Siammirrorless in this post. There are a couple of shots from the 18/4 ZM. Noticeable colour shift. No corner detail to check for smearing.
    The A7r Super Legacy Lens test….a must see!!! | sonyalpharumors

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by mbroomfield View Post
    Follow the link to Siammirrorless in this post. There are a couple of shots from the 18/4 ZM. Noticeable colour shift. No corner detail to check for smearing.
    I completely missed this link. Thanks, Mike! Lots of interesting results there. The resolution of the available images is limited, but in general, it looks to me that the results are better than they would be if the same lenses were used with an NEX-7, which I find encouraging.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    The resolution of the available images is limited, but in general, it looks to me that the results are better than they would be if the same lenses were used with an NEX-7, which I find encouraging.
    Pixel pitch, active pixel area come into play.

    See: Crop factor: An analysis of the "pixel density advantage" pixel size and sensor size of the Sony SLT-A77 and Sony SLT-A65 digital cameras compared with the Sony A7R. Pixel size and sensor size of Sony A7R and Sony A77

    The A7R should be better than the NEX-6 (which is very good, IME) from that angle.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Pixel pitch, active pixel area come into play.
    ...snip...
    The A7R should be better than the NEX-6 (which is very good, IME) from that angle.
    Yes, naturally. But then again the sensor area is much larger, resulting in an even shallower angle of incidence near the edges of the frame, and we're seeing parts of the image circle of the RF lenses that we've never seen on a non-Leica FF-sensor. Can't wait to be able to test myself...

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Correct! Then it becomes a matter how good the lenses are rather than the sensor, isn't it?

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Correct! Then it becomes a matter how good the lenses are rather than the sensor, isn't it?
    With WA lenses, what I'm particularly interested in is how the lenses interact with the sensor and it's design features (microlens array, sensel well depth, etc.). But in the end, it's the result that matters - as always

    I think the A7R will be a very versatile digital back for all sorts of lenses, from SLR super-tele to WA RF (I hope)...

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Has anyone seen A7/R sample images taken with the Distagon ZM 4/18? ...
    Included in a picture set; Brian Smith review here :

    Field Test: Sony A7R Review l Brian Smith Pictures

    Also; there's a video presentation he did for Sony ----- it's on U-Tube.

    ………… Chris

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Okay those images got my interest. The colors look better than my Nikon
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Some very interesting samples taken with the Leitz Summitar 2/50:

    SONY A7R with Legacy LENS
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    nice to see something on the front that looks like a real lens
    Last edited by jlm; 10th November 2013 at 07:22.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Some very interesting samples taken with the Leitz Summitar 2/50:

    SONY A7R with Legacy LENS
    I'm impressed with the samples using a Leica Summitar 5cm!

    LouisB

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    +1

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Some very interesting samples taken with the Leitz Summitar 2/50:

    SONY A7R with Legacy LENS
    Despite all the "cheap adapters" and an yesteryear's lens, it seems work!

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I'm impressed with the samples using a Leica Summitar 5cm!

    LouisB
    Met too! I have that lens and I love it!

    Do you see her contactlenses

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Had to look again very carefully and Yes I see them. That rates a WOW from me. I wonder if my 50/2.8 Elmar-M will be as good as that?

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Had to look again very carefully and Yes I see them. That rates a WOW from me. I wonder if my 50/2.8 Elmar-M will be as good as that?
    Probably will be nice as well, but may be less swirley.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    I don't get it. So far the pictures look they could have been shot with a 10 mp point and shoot. Almost any camera can be made to take good shots of stationary objects. The Siammirrorless photos on alpharumors are boring, and don't really show much of anything. The camera seems pretty versatile as long as you confine your shooting to berries, flowers, or slow moving people.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Actually, I did not see any shots of murals and such.

    Siammirrorless, in particular, made shots of historic places. I wish to visit them some day.

    10 P&S?

    Would you say the same about Leica M?

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    I don't get it. So far the pictures look they could have been shot with a 10 mp point and shoot. Almost any camera can be made to take good shots of stationary objects. The Siammirrorless photos on alpharumors are boring, and don't really show much of anything. The camera seems pretty versatile as long as you confine your shooting to berries, flowers, or slow moving people.
    The only difference is this is a 36,4 million pixel point and shoot.

    On the third summitar detail shot I now see some beauty support parts on her eyelids.
    Looks like this camera can extract a lot of detail for a lens from the fortys.
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    The only difference is this is a 36,4 million pixel point and shoot.

    On the third summitar detail shot I now see some beauty support parts on her eyelids.
    Looks like this camera can extract a lot of detail for a lens from the fortys.
    +1

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Vivek

    I can't tell the difference between an image from an M9, the M240, or many other cameras unless I was told which cameras the photos were taken with. I think many on this and the other fora are in the same boat. And yes, I think that for viewing purposes, a skillful photographer can do a lot more with a 10 mp point and shoot than I and most of us ever could with a 36 mp 7R and the best glass.

    I too would like to visit the places in Siammirrorless's photos but that doesn't mean they are good photos that show the real worth and truth of the camera.

    Michiel, yes, 36.4 is a lot of point and shoot.

    I have young kids that move around a lot and that do all kinds of sports. The a900 is severely tested each time I want to take sports shots of a water polo player, swimmer, or gymnast rapidly approaching - if I am trying to shoot on autofocus. The tracking system for approaching figure is pretty worthless, even I employ whatever tricks of the trade that are out there - if I am shooting autofocus.

    If the 7r has a better autofocus tracking system for those figures that are approaching rather than traveling parallel to me, I would seriously consider getting it. Otherwise, I will keep the a900 and then fiddle around with the 7R in January when Marc (fotografz) comes to Miami to shoot my son's bar mitzvah.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Mikal, Manual focus lenses also can be used for fast moving subjects. If you prefer AF, i hope Marc comes with the A7R and a LA-EA4 adapter. You may find that AF ing faster than your A900!

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Vivek, I hope so. Marc came from Michigan 10 years ago to shoot my wedding. I thought it would be nice to have him shoot my step son's bar mitzvah as well, these 10 years later so he could see the growing family. He also said that if he had the 7r he would bring it so we could play around with it.

    Vivek, I have great AF lenses for the a900 but sometimes, at least 50% of the time I shoot my kids' sporting activities on manual focus. Wish Sony would step up to the plate and make a good AF tracking system.
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Oh, drat! I put my Summitar on the b/s this morning, and now I see these photos. Maybe I better wait to sell it till my A7r gets here.
    -Cindy
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R



    While you are in the mood for looking at comparison samples have a look at this thread -

    Studio Comparison between Alpha A7r and DP2 Merrill: Sigma Camera Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    There is a new comparison with FULL RES Images at different ISO´s here:

    Sony A7 Review: First Shots

    available pics A7, A7r, Sony A99 Canon 6D, Nikon D600, Fuji X Pro1

    And the clear winner is A7r.
    At Low ISO this "Thing" is obviously a killer. The Lens they used is a 55mm
    I guess the FE 55mm F1.8 ZA prime ?

    Very promising !

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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    The results are quite astounding, aren't they? I can't believe how much more detail the A7R delivers over the D800E!

    Edit: here the link to the A7R test with the D800E comparison http://www.imaging-resource.com/came.../sony/a7r/#IQC

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Oh, drat! I put my Summitar on the b/s this morning, and now I see these photos. Maybe I better wait to sell it till my A7r gets here.
    How could you.....

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Oh, drat! I put my Summitar on the b/s this morning, and now I see these photos. Maybe I better wait to sell it till my A7r gets here.
    And the Sonnar 90/2.8 ( I bought one recently for this)!

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    How could you.....

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    ... I can't believe how much more detail the A7R delivers over the D800E!
    But they are out of camera Jpegs aren't they?

    …………….. Chris
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
    But they are out of camera Jpegs aren't they?

    …………….. Chris
    If it comes to about 80% of D800E, I will be very happy.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If it comes to about 80% of D800E, I will be very happy.
    Then you might be very, very happy.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
    But they are out of camera Jpegs aren't they?
    They are, but even after sharpening the D800E file, there is a marked difference. Likely, the lenses are not the same, and there may be focus errors. But the presence of the AR7 JPEGs is simply wonderful. I'm really looking forward to this camera and to comparing it to the D800E.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Then you might be very, very happy.
    I am not so sure, Lou. The first (sort of) support for my suspicions comes (sort of) from Tim Ashley's preliminary impressions of the files and what he alludes to as being close IQ!80 than D800.

    (Note: There are so many caveats in the post!).

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If it comes to about 80% of D800E, I will be very happy.
    My guess is that the A7R will deliver equal or better IQ compared to the D800E. There are a number of reasons for that. Here two of them:

    1.) When designing the D800E, Nikon had to keep the length of the optical path of the sensor toppings identical to those of the D800 in order to be able to use the same mirror box and AF system (and the same camera body, for that matter). Having shot with the D800E for the better part of a year now, I'm quite convinced that this engineering constraint resulted in a compromise in IQ. Don't get me wrong, the results from the D800E are stellar, but I'm quite sure they are not quite as good as they could be in terms of pixel-level detail.

    2.) Sony aims to establish itself as a serious contender in photography. Over the past few years, they have carefully built up the capabilities of their products and correspondingly the interest in these products in an ever expanding user base. I think Sony is well aware that particularly the A7R is a camera that is key to their strategy. If it is a winner on all fronts, but particularly in terms of IQ, it will be adopted by many professionals. As a result, I believe they have done everything within their power to maximize the IQ delivered by the A7R.

    I seriously hope that my assumptions are correct...

    Edit: If I am correct, and the A7R is as excellent in terms of IQ as I believe it to be, I would truly like to se an A7Rm akin to the Leica Monochrom (i.e. sensor stripped of BFA and with minimal toppings). It would be an astonishing product, Sony would be uniquely placed to do it well (as far as the sensor is concerned), and I think it would sell faster than they could make it...
    Last edited by Ron Pfister; 11th November 2013 at 13:29.

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    My guess is that the A7R will deliver equal or better IQ compared to the D800E. There are a number of reasons for that. Here two of them:

    1.) When designing the D800E, Nikon had to keep the length of the optical path of the sensor toppings identical to those of the D800 in order to be able to use the same mirror box and AF system (and the same camera body, for that matter). Having shot with the D800E for the better part of a year now, I'm quite convinced that this engineering constraint resulted in a compromise in IQ. Don't get me wrong, the results from the D800E are stellar, but I'm quite sure they are not quite as good as they could be in terms of pixel-level detail.

    2.) Sony aims to establish itself as a serious contender in photography. Over the past few years, they have carefully built up the capabilities of their products and correspondingly the interest in these products in an ever expanding user base. I think Sony is well aware that particularly the A7R is a camera that is key to their strategy. If it is a winner on all fronts, but particularly in terms of IQ, it will be adopted by many professionals. As a result, I believe they have done everything within their power to maximize the IQ delivered by the A7R.

    I seriously hope that my assumptions are correct...

    Edit: If I am correct, and the A7R is as excellent in terms of IQ as I believe it to be, I would truly like to se an A7Rm akin to the Leica Monochrom (i.e. sensor stripped of BFA and with minimal toppings). It would be an astonishing product, Sony would be uniquely placed to do it well (as far as the sensor is concerned), and I think it would sell faster than they could make it...
    Ron, Good points (though I do not agree).

    1. I never understood Nikon's complicated sensor package. I am unsure of your explanation of it. (They could have just moved the sensor with thinner glass forward to achieve the same registry). I am also yet to find an AA (blur filter) in NEX-5N or NEX-6. So, the mystery exists.

    2. If SOny are really serious, they would be putting their best sensor in their own cams instead of giving them to Nikon 2 years ahead. Another mystery.

    About the future A7Rm (monochrome)- I would love one as well, if it comes with a quiet shutter and with no dust shaker/UV-IR filter. The Leica sensors have their UV-IR cut filter fused on the sensor casing and that also acts as the cover glass. All Sony sensors have a clear cover glass and then this dust shaker/UV-IR cut filter.
    Last edited by Vivek; 11th November 2013 at 13:55.

  47. #97
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Ron, Good points (though I do not agree).

    1. I never understood Nikon's complicated sensor package. I am unsure of your explanation of it. (They could have just moved the sensor with thinner glass forward to achieve the same registry). I am also yet to find an AA (blur filter) in NEX-5N or NEX-6. So, the mystery exists.
    Whatever the NEX-situation may be, I am convinced that the solution Nikon chose for the D800E was a trade-off aimed at minimizing financial risk in case the D800E would turn out to be a commercial failure. Something like two birds with 1.1 stones.

    2. If SOny are really serious, they would be putting their best sensor in their own cams instead of giving them to Nikon 2 years ahead. Another mystery.
    Smart business moves, I'd say. I'm sure Nikon paid a hefty premium for exclusive access to this sensor (and likely largely financed its R&D by doing so). At the time Sony simply wasn't in the right place yet. Modern mirrorless (i.e. non-RF) systems were not widely considered a viable alternative to DSLRs (never mind MF) by professionals at the time the sensor choice for the D800 was made (likely sometime during 2011). This has changed in the meantime.

    Edit: If Sony continues to play their hand well (and I believe they have done so brilliantly over the past 3 years), I expect them to begin using their innovations in the photographic sensor arena for their own products first. The RX100-line might be a taste of that. We should not forget that Sony still sells many more APS-C and FF-sensors than it uses for its own products. The fact that Nikon recently announced a 41% YoY decrease in operating profit due to slow sales doesn't mean they're no longer the primary customer of Sony's large CMOS sensors.
    Last edited by Ron Pfister; 11th November 2013 at 14:23.
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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    About the future A7Rm (monochrome)- I would love one as well, if it comes with a quiet shutter and with no dust shaker/UV-IR filter. The Leica sensors have their UV-IR cut filter fused on the sensor casing and that also acts as the cover glass. All Sony sensors have a clear cover glass and then this dust shaker/UV-IR cut filter.
    Good point - that is not ideal. Leica's approach definitely involves fewer compromises. Is the dust shaker/cover glass design the same with the A7/R as it is with currently shipping NEX-models?

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Good point - that is not ideal. Leica's approach definitely involves fewer compromises. Is the dust shaker/cover glass design the same with the A7/R as it is with currently shipping NEX-models?
    Here is one thread with some images. http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/389...aa-filter.html

    The "clear glass" of the NEX-7 is absent in NEX-5N and the NEX-6. They only have the cover glass (epoxied on the sensor casing) plus the dust shaker/UV-IR cut filter. Not sure about the X number of NEX models out there (frankly, I lost count). I have one NEX-5N without even the cover glass. These can be converted to monochrome but are nowhere near Leica MM when it comes to low light sensitivity (yes, do not go by the ISO dials), DR or image quality (not to mention the fact it really cost me a pretty penny with all the experiments).

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    Re: Why I am Impressed with the Sony A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am not so sure, Lou. The first (sort of) support for my suspicions comes (sort of) from Tim Ashley's preliminary impressions of the files and what he alludes to as being close IQ!80 than D800.

    (Note: There are so many caveats in the post!).
    Agree, TA gives reason for pause. But he has such an eagle eye that most of what he finds wrong I do not seem to with 20x30 prints so far. My eyes are just not as well trained as TA's.

    Just recently there was a SAR post about a guy who really liked the kit 28-70. Go figure?

    I am confused and as such cannot wait for real data from Europe or in December, if I get mine that month.

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