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The A7/R Adaptor thread

tashley

Subscriber Member
Not sure if the A7's will be the same but with the Nex bodies I find the ASTAT awkward with the normal placement of the tightening screw (on the left looking at the camera - and as shown here) - gets in the way and difficult to operate. I unscrewed the collar from the Arca plate flipped it and refixed - works better for me. The original version had this orientation but also he screw was up not down, and, the plat was permanently attached to the collar.

I had a similar issue with the screw assembly getting in the way of my right hand holding the grip, then I realised that if I rotate the entire assembly on the lens by 90 degrees so that the plate is on my left and the screw underneath, the plate gives me a great place to hold the camera for extra steadiness, without having to grip the lens itself, which often means gripping the focus ring and accidentally changing focus...
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
My Novoflex has arrived and seems quite a lot better: it is smaller, feels more 'factory made' than the 'workshop' made of the MTF, certainly allows those lenses that I have which can focus beyond infinity to do so (the MTF adaptor felt like it often stopped a tiny touch short of infinity and wouldn't go past) and best of all, there is no vignetting on the 100mm Macro Planar, other than that which is native to the lens itself. I also greatly prefer the aperture control. The only thing I like less well is that you have to remember to set the aperture ring on the adaptor a particular way before mounting the lens...

I have order the Novoflex NEX/NIK and the ASTAT NEX, should arrive tomorrow. I will report back. The MTF adaptor was nicely made but I had a niggling doubt over infinity focus and I also had some vignetting on some lenses, notably the 100 Makro Planar and the 24mm PC-E unshifted. Maybe those lenses just won't adapt well, but soon enough I'll know!
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
I had a similar issue with the screw assembly getting in the way of my right hand holding the grip, then I realised that if I rotate the entire assembly on the lens by 90 degrees so that the plate is on my left and the screw underneath, the plate gives me a great place to hold the camera for extra steadiness, without having to grip the lens itself, which often means gripping the focus ring and accidentally changing focus...

I agree, that's another benefit.
 

ohnri

New member
Novoflex is very very good, but I tried the Metabones and it is very good also for just $89 at B&H. Actually got the suggestion for the Metabones M-E adapter from Michael Reichmann of Luminous Landscape.
I am also using the Metabones M-E adapter on my A7 and have been very pleased with the workmanship and performance.

I decided to try it after reading Michael Reichmann's article.

As an aside, the Sony A7 is one heck of a fine camera.

-Bill
 

scho

Well-known member
I am also using the Metabones M-E adapter on my A7 and have been very pleased with the workmanship and performance.

I decided to try it after reading Michael Reichmann's article.

As an aside, the Sony A7 is one heck of a fine camera.

-Bill
+1 The red one :)
 
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Ron Pfister

Member
Out of curiosity, I measured the thickness of my two Nikon F to Sony E-mount adapters, using a micrometer gauge. I measured near the four screws with four measurements at each location. The measurement precision was ±0.001mm. Here the findings:

Voigtländer: 28.379 ±0.004mm
Metabones Mk II (this is the F, not the G version): 28.077 ±0.010mm

According to the information available to me, the thickness should actually be 46.5mm - 18mm = 28.5mm (one source I found lists the E-mount flange back distance as 18.25mm - does anyone know which is correct?).

I was surprised to find such a large difference between the two adapters. Furthermore, the manufacturing tolerances of the Metabones seem questionable. From what I have read, a skew of 10 microns is clearly visible. I have so far primarily used the Voigtländer adapter, but shall compare the two soon to see if a skew is indeed visible with the Metabones.

I'm eager to learn more regarding to acceptable tolerances. Anyone out there with optical test bench experience?
 

jlm

Workshop Member
if the flange is too thin, you will focus "past" infinity when the lens is on the inf stop. if too thick, you will not get to inf focus.

how does your lens behave at inf?

also a 0.01mm thickness variation over about a 50mm flange diameter (arctan=5000) is about .01 degree; which seems like a pretty small tilt; were you using a tech camera, not discernible, i would think. one tenth degree tilt would be about arctan=500
 

algrove

Well-known member
Out of curiosity, I measured the thickness of my two Nikon F to Sony E-mount adapters, using a micrometer gauge. I measured near the four screws with four measurements at each location. The measurement precision was ±0.001mm. Here the findings:

Voigtländer: 28.379 ±0.004mm
Metabones Mk II (this is the F, not the G version): 28.077 ±0.010mm

According to the information available to me, the thickness should actually be 46.5mm - 18mm = 28.5mm (one source I found lists the E-mount flange back distance as 18.25mm - does anyone know which is correct?).

I was surprised to find such a large difference between the two adapters. Furthermore, the manufacturing tolerances of the Metabones seem questionable. From what I have read, a skew of 10 microns is clearly visible. I have so far primarily used the Voigtländer adapter, but shall compare the two soon to see if a skew is indeed visible with the Metabones.

I'm eager to learn more regarding to acceptable tolerances. Anyone out there with optical test bench experience?
Interesting analysis. I would like to know how those numbers compare with the Novoflex adapter.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
if the flange is too thin, you will focus "past" infinity when the lens is on the inf stop. if too thick, you will not get to inf focus.

how does your lens behave at inf?

also a 0.01mm thickness variation over about a 50mm flange diameter (arctan=5000) is about .01 degree; which seems like a pretty small tilt; were you using a tech camera, not discernible, i would think. one tenth degree tilt would be about arctan=500
Thanks for your insight, John! :)

(these things get lost nowadays with the kind of participation we seem to have)
 
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Ron Pfister

Member
if the flange is too thin, you will focus "past" infinity when the lens is on the inf stop. if too thick, you will not get to inf focus.

how does your lens behave at inf?
I just checked both adapters with my Leitaxed Summicron-R 50 E55. On my D800E, infinity is spot-on with this lens (i.e. the infinity mark focuses to infinity). So much so, in fact, that I often don't even bother checking focus with this lens when shooting distant landscapes. I just set it to infinity.

I focused on a back-lit hill crest covered with trees about 4 km distant. With the Voigtländer adapter, the trees came in focus just about in the middle between the 10m and the infinity mark on the lens' focusing ring. With the Metabones, the same occurred about a third of the way between the 5 and 10m marks (i.e. much closer to the former).

also a 0.01mm thickness variation over about a 50mm flange diameter (arctan=5000) is about .01 degree; which seems like a pretty small tilt; were you using a tech camera, not discernible, i would think. one tenth degree tilt would be about arctan=500
Thanks - that's good to know. I will test on a suitable subject sometime soon to see if I can detect skew. As long as the blur due to skew isn't more severe than the accuracy of my focusing, I'm not bothered.

What I am concerned about, though, is the above finding with regard to infinity focus and how it relates to flange back distance (FBD). Am I wrong in assuming that the designers of a lens calculate its optimum performance within a relatively tight tolerance of the FBD of the camera system for which it is designed? If that distance is now as much reduced as found with the Metabones adapter, would we not expect sub-optimal performance of that lens? I realize that the FBD of the target camera system as well as the focal length and the general design paradigm of the lens likely influence the answer to the latter question. E.g. I would expect a symmetrical wide-angle M-mount lens suffering much more than a long SLR telephoto lens. Regardless, I'm curious if the observed reduction of the flange back distance by almost 0.5mm in the case of the Metabones adapter is something to be concerned about. Could anyone in the know shed some light on this?

I'd like to add that this is not splitting hairs to me, and I hope I'm not coming across as pedantic. As we have all seen, the sensor of the A7R is capable of capturing incredibly detailed images, given the right lens an proper technique. To me, pursuing the goal of maximizing IQ, particularly when using the camera for landscape photography, is worth while. In fact, it is the primary reason why I purchased the camera. Otherwise, I may as well have purchased the A7 or stayed with my NEX cameras. Knowing which factors need to be considered to maximize IQ is therefore important to me, and as we have seen from posts in this thread and others, the design and quality of adapters play a significant part in this.
 
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Slingers

Active member
I'd like to add that this is not splitting hairs to me, and I hope I'm not coming across as pedantic. As we have all seen, the sensor of the A7R is capable of capturing incredibly detailed images, given the right lens an proper technique. To me, pursuing the goal of maximizing IQ, particularly when using the camera for landscape photography, is worth while. In fact, it is the primary reason why I purchased the camera. Otherwise, I may as well have purchased the A7 or stayed with my NEX cameras. Knowing which factors need to be considered to maximize IQ is therefore important to me, and as we have seen from posts in this thread and others, the design and quality of adapters play a significant part in this.
I think it's great you are measuring your adapters. At least you will know you're getting the best possible results from your camera, adapter, and lens combo when using the closest to perfect adapter. I have only ever seen the E mount flange as 18.00mm as well.
 

Ron Pfister

Member
Interesting analysis. I would like to know how those numbers compare with the Novoflex adapter.
I just measured my Novoflex NEX/LEM adapter. According to the sources I've checked, the thickness should be 27.8mm - 18mm = 9.8mm. My measurements varied between 9.713 and 9.727mm. In comparison, my Voigtländer adapter measured between 9.687 and 9.704mm. So the Novoflex is built slightly more precisely and is a hair closer to the thickness it should be. I think I will add shimming to my list of hobbies… ;)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Camera registries: Camera Mounts Sorted by Register

None of the adapters can be "precise". Leica M, etc mounts are very old and there are a lot of beat up lenses with not very flat lens mounts. These differences do not matter in reality with live view focusing. Splitting hair could be a real hobby though.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
What is that point, Ron? :confused:

The link is from the RF film era and all that effort put in by Stella is amazing and worth an :clap:

With live view and 14.4X magnification on pretty much anywhere in the frame why is it relevant?
 

Ron Pfister

Member
What is that point, Ron? :confused:
That at a CoC of 0.005mm, depth of focus at large apertures is in the same range as the skew I measured with some of my adapters (sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the adapter). Not good, at least in my book...
 
V

Vivek

Guest
That at a CoC of 0.005mm, depth of focus at large apertures is in the same range as the skew I measured with some of my adapters (sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the adapter). Not good, at least in my book...
Absolutely not acceptable, Ron! Is it realistic? Do you mount your clean camera, adapters and lenses in a "cleanroom"?

FWIW, I have split materials that are a lot thinner than 17 microns using appropriate tools and in an appropriate environment. :)
 
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