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Thread: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hair Kari? I'm not sure they'd be cutting their own hair at this stage
    LOL Stupid spell check!!
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    But seriously, these camera manufacturers are mostly 'spoiling the ship for a ha'penny worth of tar'.

    Sony like to make things smaller than anyone else and packed full of features, but it's so often the packing, rather than the quality of the features, that they pander to. They need to get some good glass and everyone but them appears to know this. In the meantime, the A7R is selling on hope and novelty.

    They are not alone in this: Nikon's D800 had a reputation for unreliable focus and also has a problem with gaps in the availability of key lenses of the right quality. Canon can't (or won't) 'do' high MP yet and some people feel their sensors are bandy at higher ISO. Leica charge a fortune but not everyone trusts their QC or their logic. Pentax keep on nearly getting most of it right. Sigma are spectacular in some ways and meh in others. Olympus is the brightest kid in the B stream. And so on and so on.

    The people with the system that is broadest and best and most ready to take ALL of this to the next level are Canon. Let's hope they're about to man up.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Isn't competition great?
    Getting varies cameras/systems is just an investment in my education!
    Oh, and entertaining!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post

    Sony like to make things smaller than anyone else and packed full of features, but it's so often the packing, rather than the quality of the features, that they pander to. They need to get some good glass and everyone but them appears to know this. In the meantime, the A7R is selling on hope and novelty.
    That's why I've decided to pull the trigger on the RX1r (with an EVF) and not the A7 or A7r.

    While I like the compact size, I like the silent, leaf shutter and deliciously sharp 35mm Zeiss Sonnar that has been mated perfectly to the camera even more. Also, having a fixed, non-interchangeable lens doesn't bother me since I've always preferred the 35mm FOV and I like the idea of not having to worry about exposing the sensor to dust and pollutants (which aren't as much of an issue when sensors have larger pixels but certainly become an issue when more are crammed into every square mm).

    Yeah it's absurdly expensive (and with the optional EVF even more so) and, admittedly, the A7 and A7r are definitely better bangs for the buck/pound/yen/yuan/DM/Kroner/Rial/Peso.

    But not necessarily better cameras for me.

    As another poster put it, these things aren't always a rational decision but an emotional one.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    I can't sell my RX1, for exactly the reasons you state. It is a lovely, lovely camera...
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Jono, thanks for this post. It helps me as I think through whether to cancel my A7R pre-order. I'm pretty much only interested in the camera as a Leica M mount lens shooter, and the only focal lengths I care about are 35mm and 50mm. That said, I don't think I'm going to find manual focus with the A7R nearly as enjoyable as using a rangefinder, and for me, 90% of the time I just want to use my Micro 4/3 kits anyway.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Lens.. Lens Lens. Sony really needs to be a bit faster at bringing out native FE lens for the A7 and A7r. This would be less of an issue for some, as instead of using legacy glass, they could use Native pricey Zeiss glass.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    Lens.. Lens Lens. Sony really needs to be a bit faster at bringing out native FE lens for the A7 and A7r. This would be less of an issue for some, as instead of using legacy glass, they could use Native pricey Zeiss glass.
    I quite agree. In the UK the camera was sold without a single available lens!

    I'll certainly come back and have another look when there are more lenses (as long as they don't defeat the object by being huge)

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I quite agree. In the UK the camera was sold without a single available lens!

    I'll certainly come back and have another look when there are more lenses (as long as they don't defeat the object by being huge)
    I am afraid that it will be quite difficult to produce lenses that are telecentric, fast and compact at the same time.
    Ario
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    But seriously, these camera manufacturers are mostly 'spoiling the ship for a ha'penny worth of tar'.

    Sony like to make things smaller than anyone else and packed full of features, but it's so often the packing, rather than the quality of the features, that they pander to. They need to get some good glass and everyone but them appears to know this. In the meantime, the A7R is selling on hope and novelty.

    They are not alone in this: Nikon's D800 had a reputation for unreliable focus and also has a problem with gaps in the availability of key lenses of the right quality. Canon can't (or won't) 'do' high MP yet and some people feel their sensors are bandy at higher ISO. Leica charge a fortune but not everyone trusts their QC or their logic. Pentax keep on nearly getting most of it right. Sigma are spectacular in some ways and meh in others. Olympus is the brightest kid in the B stream. And so on and so on.

    The people with the system that is broadest and best and most ready to take ALL of this to the next level are Canon. Let's hope they're about to man up.
    I think they are ALL pandering to the "Gotta have it now" consumer mentality. "What's next? Gimme it"!

    Who can blame them? It accelerates the buying patterns into shorter cycles. One has to wonder how any of these companies survived in the film era when a camera could last you a decade ... or in the case of Leica, a lifetime.

    People seem to evaluate a new system in the aggregate ... they lump everyone's application needs together, and bemoan the lack of some element in a system even though many (if not most) personally do not need it all. When the Leica S2 came out, it had one lens, a 70mm, and a 180mm if you could source one. Now it is one of the most comprehensive and versatile mobile MFD systems available. Patience was a virtue.

    Sony has been banging out consumer cameras ever since they acquired Minolta. I paid them no mind until they teamed up with Zeiss ... and even then didn't jump until the FF A900 (not even remotely interested in crop frame solutions). Then came the smaller, more capable FF A99 ... and now the even smaller more potent FF A7R ... all compatible with the ZA lenses I've acquired over time (including some smaller lenses). So, as a "patient" Sony owner, the A7R is a remarkable "systems" addition. That I can also use a few exotic M lenses is just a cherry on top of the desert.

    Hardly "Hope and novelty" for my needs.

    So Jono was right, I have a different perspective as a Sony user. I can trundle along with the A7R quite nicely as the FE lenses trickle in ... and get what may be attractive, or not. I also have some inkling as to what may be coming yet from Sony ... they are not done by any stretch of the imagination. The A7R is just a shot over the bow of the digital camera industry.

    If as you say Canon "man's up" they will have to turn their Aircraft Carrier around in a pond ... their current lenses are huge, and have become quite expensive. I have no doubt that they WILL come forth with a stunning meg count ... what it is in, will be the question.

    - Marc
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Marc, I do agree but I think you're in a minority of those purchasing the A7R because AFAIK there are comparatively few people with a bag of ZA glass in mounts that don't need large adaptors.

    I should have written more specifically: for those that already have Sony mount lenses and don't mind using those huge adaptors, the A7R makes some sort of sense as a system extension - but even for them I can't help think that the 'normal' full frame size lenses on an adaptor on a tiny body are likely to look and feel weird and won't allow the owner to capitalise on the promise of a size and weight saving. That's a high price to pay for 36mp and were I a current Sony system owner with those legacy items I would rather have an Alpha line camera with the same sensor, personally.

    For the rest of us, with a mixed bag of lenses of different types and mounts, the same holds for the legacy full frame SLR glass, except the adaptors are likely to remove some or all of the functionality. Which largely leaves us with RF lenses which, by comparison, are small in size and take small adaptors and therefore fit the A7R beautifully - except a lot of them won't work satisfactorily. Otherwise it's small recherché legacy primes, a niche but interesting.

    So I still think it reasonably fair to say that for an awful lot of actual and prospective A7R purchasers, it is novelty, which most of us like and from which I am certainly not immune, and hope, either that their legacy RF glass will work (some will and some won't) or that the FE range grows quickly and well...

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I am sorry but this is just plain wrong. So wrong I can't even be bothered to apply a reductio ad absurdam to it, because that should be obvious.

    It is merely an explanation of the magic a good photographer weaves when he turns a technical sow's ear into a creative silk purse - but it doesn't mean that if he was given silk to start with, he couldn't make a better purse.
    All good artists are like alchemists; as one German artist stated; "Art is turning s**t into gold"

    http://www.stedelijk.nl/kunstwerk/76347-jpeg-ny06

    This work -jpeg nr 06- by Thomas Ruff has been made of a snap he found on the internet and turned into a major artwork with a size of 254,8 x 164 cm. (Collection Stedelijk Museum Amsterdam)

    But I am sure he has some nice equipment as well
    Last edited by Michiel Schierbeek; 28th November 2013 at 03:03. Reason: There are rights on this picture (pictoright amsterdam), so I changed it into a link.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post

    I should have written more specifically: for those that already have Sony mount lenses and don't mind using those huge adaptors, the A7R makes some sort of sense as a system extension - but even for them I can't help think that the 'normal' full frame size lenses on an adaptor on a tiny body are likely to look and feel weird and won't allow the owner to capitalise on the promise of a size and weight saving. That's a high price to pay for 36mp and were I a current Sony system owner with those legacy items I would rather have an Alpha line camera with the same sensor, personally.

    For the rest of us, with a mixed bag of lenses of different types and mounts, the same holds for the legacy full frame SLR glass, except the adaptors are likely to remove some or all of the functionality. Which largely leaves us with RF lenses which, by comparison, are small in size and take small adaptors and therefore fit the A7R beautifully - except a lot of them won't work satisfactorily. Otherwise it's small recherché legacy primes, a niche but interesting.
    That's why I ordered the battery grip to make my bigger (C/Y) lenses balance better on it. And I love the way it looks on it. Perfect high resolution street cam for me. Can't do it walking around with an Alpa, although I would love to own one but that is another story.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Marc, I do agree but I think you're in a minority of those purchasing the A7R because AFAIK there are comparatively few people with a bag of ZA glass in mounts that don't need large adaptors.

    I should have written more specifically: for those that already have Sony mount lenses and don't mind using those huge adaptors, the A7R makes some sort of sense as a system extension - but even for them I can't help think that the 'normal' full frame size lenses on an adaptor on a tiny body are likely to look and feel weird and won't allow the owner to capitalise on the promise of a size and weight saving. That's a high price to pay for 36mp and were I a current Sony system owner with those legacy items I would rather have an Alpha line camera with the same sensor, personally.

    For the rest of us, with a mixed bag of lenses of different types and mounts, the same holds for the legacy full frame SLR glass, except the adaptors are likely to remove some or all of the functionality. Which largely leaves us with RF lenses which, by comparison, are small in size and take small adaptors and therefore fit the A7R beautifully - except a lot of them won't work satisfactorily. Otherwise it's small recherché legacy primes, a niche but interesting.

    So I still think it reasonably fair to say that for an awful lot of actual and prospective A7R purchasers, it is novelty, which most of us like and from which I am certainly not immune, and hope, either that their legacy RF glass will work (some will and some won't) or that the FE range grows quickly and well...
    There may be more people using Sony DSLRs than you think. When you use a system you tend to be aware of that more than others may be. Folks on this forum are not the universe, nor are their particular needs/novelties universal.

    Since I have to carry two FF Sony DSLR cameras to every gig, plus a M body, the size of this camera even with the HUMONGOUS, shoulder dislocating, clavicle collapsing, disc rupturing, tendon snapping LAEA4 SLT AF adapter, is still considerably smaller/lighter/easier to pack/carry than a A99 DSLR, let alone the A900 it will be replacing in my bag. That I won't need to pack a M camera for the Noctilux further reduces the burden.

    I do not have to speculate as to how the A mount adapted lenses balance on this camera ... I tried it. The 24/2, 50/1.4 and even 85/1.4 are fine ... and will most likely be the most used ZAs on this camera ... (not to mention that there is a whole world of smaller legacy Minolta and non-Zeiss AF Sony lenses to explore yet). The bigger ZA zooms will stay with the A99 which will remain my main work-horse, but should the A99 fail at a shoot, the zooms work fine on the A7R.

    IMO, the unbalanced notion of big AF zoom lenses on a smaller body is a red herring unless you are in the habit of gripping the camera with both hands ... which I've personally never done ... preferring to cradle the lens ... same as using a telephoto.

    I've also changed my mind regarding the FE 35/2.8 ... there is no ZA 35mm in the A mount system, and this would be a perfect walk-about town vacation lens where I almost always carry just a 35mm. The high ISO on the A7R makes the slower max aperture less of an issue.

    - Marc
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    I also ordered the grip for use with larger and all R lenses and large M lenses. But I also got the grip because I was worried that going out, hiking, climbing maybe 5 hours at a time I would need more battery longevity. So with two batteries in the grip combined with the way it drains one battery to nearly zero and then automatically switches to the second, full battery, gave me confidence it might fit into my outdoor plans and uses. Plus I will be using LV and FP a lot so packing 2 extra batteries plus the two in the grip, I figured it should (might) be set for many hours of shooting.

    We will see and should I need more batteries they are less than $40 per battery. Then again comparing these batteries to my M240 batteries at $190 each, maybe 5 Sony batteries will not even equal the power of one Leica M240 battery. Just thinking out loud here folks.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I do not have to speculate as to how the A mount adapted lenses balance on this camera ... I tried it. The 24/2, 50/1.4 and even 85/1.4 are fine ... and will most likely be the most used ZAs on this camera ... (not to mention that there is a whole world of smaller legacy Minolta and non-Zeiss AF Sony lenses to explore yet). The bigger ZA zooms will stay with the A99 which will remain my main work-horse, but should the A99 fail at a shoot, the zooms work fine on the A7R.

    IMO, the unbalanced notion of big AF zoom lenses on a smaller body is a red herring unless you are in the habit of gripping the camera with both hands ... which I've personally never done ... preferring to cradle the lens ... same as using a telephoto.

    I've also changed my mind regarding the FE 35/2.8 ... there is no ZA 35mm in the A mount system, and this would be a perfect walk-about town vacation lens where I almost always carry just a 35mm. The high ISO on the A7R makes the slower max aperture less of an issue.

    - Marc
    HI Marc
    I'm with you with all of this . . . . and if I still had those lenses It'd be my favourite squeeze.

    I saw quite a few A99s in Lanzarote - no D800s though.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Jono, I have been experimenting with the Lightroom Plugin for making corrections to colour shading. It is the easiest system I have yet found. I know you've returned the camera and don't like LR but I must say that this plugin is somewhat changing how I feel about M glass on the A7R. It is still more of a fuss than one would like, but it makes the 35 FLE and the 28 Cron very useable at all apertures…. here's an uncorrected and corrected example from FLE at F8. Improvements are much more dramatic wide open but if you use vignetting corrections too, it can cause a bit of a noise boost at the edges if vignetting is severe…





    It is so easy to use: if you shoot calibration files as you go using a perspex diffuser, as you would with a MF system, then import the files to LR as DNG, you simply select the file you want to correct and the calibration file you shot with it and the plugin does the rest in half a second. Alternatively you can just spend ten minutes for each lens making a library of profiles and use them in a similar way.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Jono, I have been experimenting with the Lightroom Plugin for making corrections to colour shading. It is the easiest system I have yet found. I know you've returned the camera and don't like LR but I must say that this plugin is somewhat changing how I feel about M glass on the A7R. It is still more of a fuss than one would like, but it makes the 35 FLE and the 28 Cron very useable at all apertures
    HI Tim
    But what about the smearing? does it deal with that as well? I was never worried about the vignetting (easy to deal with in Aperture as well) - but the smearing, especially with the 28 'cron was something awful!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Tim
    But what about the smearing? does it deal with that as well? I was never worried about the vignetting (easy to deal with in Aperture as well) - but the smearing, especially with the 28 'cron was something awful!
    Yup, nothing for the smearing - in fact it can make it look worse if you de-vignette because it is lighter. But for shots where it doesn't matter, at least the colour issues are tamed, and the Cron is not terrible by in the corners F8 and really OK by F11. As you know it's not a lens I like greatly anyway but this plugin certainly expands its range of use on the A7R...

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Yup, nothing for the smearing - in fact it can make it look worse if you de-vignette because it is lighter. But for shots where it doesn't matter, at least the colour issues are tamed, and the Cron is not terrible by in the corners F8 and really OK by F11. As you know it's not a lens I like greatly anyway but this plugin certainly expands its range of use on the A7R...
    Might as well use an RX10 - especially if you need to stop down to f8!

    Seriously - I think this camera may be a killer with it's own lenses, and I know it's fine with R (and other SLR lenses), but to put all the effort in with M lenses and still have smeary corners and edges - why would you bother?

    I think Bart has it cracked - use it with R lenses. I just don't need a camera for that. When there are some FE lenses I'll definitely reconsider.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Might as well use an RX10 - especially if you need to stop down to f8!

    Seriously - I think this camera may be a killer with it's own lenses, and I know it's fine with R (and other SLR lenses), but to put all the effort in with M lenses and still have smeary corners and edges - why would you bother?

    I think Bart has it cracked - use it with R lenses. I just don't need a camera for that. When there are some FE lenses I'll definitely reconsider.
    I've owned the A7R for a few days and, for me, it's an absolute killer with the WATE, 50 LUX ASPH and 90 LUX ASPH. I no longer own the 28/2 ASPH or 35/1.4 FLE. I found these lenses to be a mixed a bag on my M9. And I could never deal with more than 2 or 3 lenses in the bag. Now with 36mp, it's easy enough to crop a 21mm focal length down to around 32mm and still end up with 24mp of resolution.

    If I'd paid $9000 (current street price in Australia) for an M240, I would be looking for a dozen ways to justify keeping it. By comparison, the A7R cost $2000 including a free $400 Canon EF adapter.

    The only benefit, to me, of the M240 is the potential to shoot a greater variety of lenses at their full potential. But since I don't have the need to tote around with 10 lenses, I find the A7R to be better in so many ways:

    1. higher resolution (lots of cropping potential)
    2. better handling due to ergonomic grip/much reduced weight
    3. vastly superior video with stereo audio recording when using EVF
    4. improved focus accuracy off-centre when using fast lenses (goodbye focus/recompose)
    5. option to use AF lenses (plus my Canon EF lenses)
    6. no high ISO banding

    This is highly subjective, but I also feel that colour images from the A7R look much better than those from the M240. I shot with an M240 for a couple of weeks and there was lots of faffing about just to get pleasing colour. It's taken 12 months for many in the Leica community to reach the point where they're at peace with colour images from the M240. Some never made peace and just ditched their M240 (see Prosophos' blog, for example). By comparison, when you consider that the new Sony's have only been out for a week, we're already seeing some really nice looking colour images.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Nothing but perfection is the request from everything made east of Europe no matter the price. I`m glad Solms products, or should I say Portuguese ones, have to pass the same levels of scrutiny. As a RF nostalgic, I might keep my M9. But the A7r I picked up two days ago is the better camera, irrespective of price. And considering that it cost me less than one of the "entry level" Leica optics or a 2 year period write off on a new M body, it`s a darn good deal.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I've owned the A7R for a few days and, for me, it's an absolute killer with the WATE, 50 LUX ASPH and 90 LUX ASPH. I no longer own the 28/2 ASPH or 35/1.4 FLE. I found these lenses to be a mixed a bag on my M9. And I could never deal with more than 2 or 3 lenses in the bag. Now with 36mp, it's easy enough to crop a 21mm focal length down to around 32mm and still end up with 24mp of resolution.

    If I'd paid $9000 (current street price in Australia) for an M240, I would be looking for a dozen ways to justify keeping it. By comparison, the A7R cost $2000 including a free $400 Canon EF adapter.

    The only benefit, to me, of the M240 is the potential to shoot a greater variety of lenses at their full potential. But since I don't have the need to tote around with 10 lenses, I find the A7R to be better in so many ways:

    1. higher resolution (lots of cropping potential)
    2. better handling due to ergonomic grip/much reduced weight
    3. vastly superior video with stereo audio recording when using EVF
    4. improved focus accuracy off-centre when using fast lenses (goodbye focus/recompose)
    5. option to use AF lenses (plus my Canon EF lenses)
    6. no high ISO banding

    This is highly subjective, but I also feel that colour images from the A7R look much better than those from the M240. I shot with an M240 for a couple of weeks and there was lots of faffing about just to get pleasing colour. It's taken 12 months for many in the Leica community to reach the point where they're at peace with colour images from the M240. Some never made peace and just ditched their M240 (see Prosophos' blog, for example). By comparison, when you consider that the new Sony's have only been out for a week, we're already seeing some really nice looking colour images.
    In fairness, I think it is essential to note that the inevitable comparison to a M240 is somewhat flawed. The Leica is a different beast, it is a rangefinder camera with its' storied viewfinder experience ... using legendary optics specifically made for M cameras.

    In essence, a M is a different approach on seeing the world around you ... as well as a unique sort of tactile involvement ... one with a dedicated following that knows the difference, and in most cases prefers it to other forms of making photographs. I'm personally one of those type people, and have been for 40 years . Rangefinder photographers are willing to put up with a lot of other short-comings to keep working with a rangefinder ... witness the crop frame, seriously flawed M8 upon its' introduction. The faithful flocked, whining and moaning, but still bought. That is powerful testimony.

    That said, the wonderfully tactile "Machine Age" experience of a M has increasingly clashed with the transient obsolescence, albeit highly innovative nature, of the "Digital Age". This makes plopping down $7,000 every so many years a serious consideration in the face of new ways of seeing the world around us ... new ideas that are every bit as innovative as the rangefinder was in its' time.

    This leads to the inevitable adaption of superlative M optics to the new cameras ... cameras that were NOT specifically made for M lenses. Some lenses work, some do not. However, as far as I can determine, to make M lenses universally work on a M240, compromises had to be made ... specifically (but not exclusively) a thinner, weaker IR filter that is part of the color exercises so many M240 owners have gone through ... the emphasis was put on retaining optical acuity without the smearing from some M lenses we see on a different camera such as the A7R. At least, that is how the M240 faithful have explained it to me. I can firmly attest to the fact that there is IR contamination with the M240 in situations I would frequently use such a camera.

    Enter the A7R triple divide.

    One camp sees the use of a few of their M lenses as enough, others feel it is all or nothing, and yet others see it as a multi selective lens exercise drawing from a wide range of optics including those made for the camera.

    For me, all it had to do is work with my existing M50/0.95 to justify the A7R cost. Think of it as a 36 meg RX1 with the fastest 50mm available. A marriage made in photographic heaven IMO. The attributes of the A7R's technology plays directly to the use of this daunting lens. Off-center composition and use of higher ISOs compared to a M240. It isn't a rangefinder, but in this case that is a good thing. Granted, one can use the M240 EVF attachment ... at best an inelegant solution similar a Frankenfinder for the WATE, or any aux W/A finder one needs to preserve the rangefinder advantage of a M.

    - Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 29th November 2013 at 04:03.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Yup, nothing for the smearing - in fact it can make it look worse if you de-vignette because it is lighter. But for shots where it doesn't matter, at least the colour issues are tamed, and the Cron is not terrible by in the corners F8 and really OK by F11. As you know it's not a lens I like greatly anyway but this plugin certainly expands its range of use on the A7R...
    Hi Tim, can you tell me which plugin is that? I know I can do that in capture one, but its not yet support A7 raw.
    Thanks.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    In essence, a M is a different approach on seeing the world around you ... as well as a unique sort of tactile involvement ... one with a dedicated following that knows the difference, and in most cases prefers it to other forms of making photographs.
    HI There Marc
    Exactly - it's a different thing altogether.
    As I say - I haven't written off the A7r - just for use with M lenses (and Ben, I found the 50 'lux to be imperfect as well - not for portrait or street, but for landscape and foliage).

    So, if I had a bag of Sony A mount lenses - I'd have one now - and I'll definitely be interested if the FE lenses prove small and good quality.

    Colour on the M? - I acknowledge the slight UV contamination, but haven't found it to be an issue with a couple of weddings and other shooting - apart from this, to my mind, the colour issue was sorted with the firmware update in August(?). I don't find myself doing anything in PP these days. Skin tones seem to me to be a big improvement over the M9 - especially in low light.

    But Marc has it - for me there was never any question of having an A7r INSTEAD of an M(240) - the rangefinder is my principle way of shooting. The new M, with it's quiet shutter and greatly improved rangefinder was never up for replacement - especially by something with a shutter as loud as the A7 (even if it's a good noise).

    I thought it would make a good sidekick if it worked well with the lenses I use most - but it doesn't. So it'll need to have good native lenses before it's useful to me. 36mp / 24mp doesn't mean much to me to be quite honest.

    all the best

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There Marc
    Exactly - it's a different thing altogether.
    As I say - I haven't written off the A7r - just for use with M lenses (and Ben, I found the 50 'lux to be imperfect as well - not for portrait or street, but for landscape and foliage).

    So, if I had a bag of Sony A mount lenses - I'd have one now - and I'll definitely be interested if the FE lenses prove small and good quality.

    Colour on the M? - I acknowledge the slight UV contamination, but haven't found it to be an issue with a couple of weddings and other shooting - apart from this, to my mind, the colour issue was sorted with the firmware update in August(?). I don't find myself doing anything in PP these days. Skin tones seem to me to be a big improvement over the M9 - especially in low light.

    But Marc has it - for me there was never any question of having an A7r INSTEAD of an M(240) - the rangefinder is my principle way of shooting. The new M, with it's quiet shutter and greatly improved rangefinder was never up for replacement - especially by something with a shutter as loud as the A7 (even if it's a good noise).

    I thought it would make a good sidekick if it worked well with the lenses I use most - but it doesn't. So it'll need to have good native lenses before it's useful to me. 36mp / 24mp doesn't mean much to me to be quite honest.

    all the best
    Frankly Jono, without already having ZA lenses to adapt, a blind decision would have been harder ... shooting with the 0.95 on the A7R changed that.

    I'm still evaluating the M240 Demo my dealer lent me. Like you, it isn't an either or proposition. The question is, do I want the M240 or not? I already pre-paid for the A7R which was a no-brainer for me. Simply an extension of a system I already have, and rely on quite a bit.

    I loaded the new firmware the minute I got the M240 and all my efforts so far are using various WB settings ... but primarily auto and custom. There is much to like, and some to dislike on the M240 ... however, the one question of most concern to me remains the color rendering. I will simply agree to disagree with you on the IR and/or color rendering. Quite a few folks on the LUV that own the camera are still sorting out the color, and some are now trying the IR filters in certain conditions after I posted my controlled test in lower tungsten temp lighting ... the results were vividly obvious. I've come to understand why it is, I have not come to fully understand how to deal with it in post. I am working on that now.

    So, perhaps I will post a thread on why I am returning the M240 ... or why I am keeping it. I have to answer that by Monday.

    - Marc
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    however, the one question of most concern to me remains the color rendering. I will simply agree to disagree with you on the IR and/or color rendering.
    HI Marc
    Sorry - I put UV in my post rather than IR - I certainly agree that it's susceptible, so we don't disagree about that. It's just that I've not found it to be an issue in the real world (unlike the M8 for instance).

    As far as the colour is concerned generally it was certainly wrong - and needed either correcting or shooting at a fixed temperature (which is what I did before). Now I like it better than the M9 - but in terms of colour, and in this case familiarity breeds content (for me at least). Certainly I've not had any complaints from my victims!

    I'll be interested to see how you get on at any rate!

    All the best

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by yatlee View Post
    Hi Tim, can you tell me which plugin is that? I know I can do that in capture one, but its not yet support A7 raw.
    Thanks.
    It's called the DNG flat field plugin and it works in Lightroom RC 5.3, available from the Lightroom website's plugin section.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    If I ever decide to get the A7 or A7r I guess I won't be bringing it to surreptitiously capture moments at the theater, court or a museum. Or document a bomb defusing.

    Sony A7R Shutter Shound Comparison - YouTube
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    If I ever decide to get the A7 or A7r I guess I won't be bringing it to surreptitiously capture moments at the theater, court or a museum. Or document a bomb defusing.

    Sony A7R Shutter Shound Comparison - YouTube
    I don't know about you Peter, I have not documented any bomb defusal in my entire life and do not anticipate doing one either. In case if I ever have to, I can always video the whole thing and grab high res snaps out of it. Or even better, transmit the whole thing, live, using the built in WiFi.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    I am challenged by this camera. I really want to like it because the IQ180 has made me a pixel addict. 24 MP is just not enough any more and I can't carry the MF equipment or a D800 around in my briefcase. I need the pixel density and compact size that the A7r provides.

    However, I am unlikely to keep the A7r for very long. The sensor is lovely and the camera handles fine, but I can't tolerate the corner artifacts. The problem is not primarily intensity vignetting, but the highly localized degradation in corner MTF. That E-mount hole just seems too small for FF with normal lenses. Chopping of corner rays is not correctable in post.

    I don't need wide and my experience with specific lenses is limited. The Elmar 135 seems fine wide open but too long for a daily. The Summicron R 50 and the native 35 FE clean up enough by f5.6 or so, but that is a pretty serious limitation - or so it would seem. I say "seem" because many others are having much better success or are not as bothered by this particular problem. Point is, there is a real issue that some buyers may find critical.

    I returned the 35 FE and am hoping the 55 will be better. Sadly, one preliminary review tells me to be prepared for vignetting so my hopes are not high. If I can find just one normal that does not show the mushy corners at f2, I will be happy with this camera.

    Perhaps I am unrealistic in wanting reasonably clean corners in a compact FF, but the mount engineering challenge does not seem all that great. Make a bigger hole. I hope a solution (the lens I am looking for) is imminent, or a less finicky FF compact will appear over the next year. For the moment, the A7r is the only game in town and it stays.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    However, I am unlikely to keep the A7r for very long. *The sensor is lovely and the camera handles fine, but I can't tolerate the corner artifacts. *The problem is not primarily intensity vignetting, but the highly localized degradation in corner MTF. *That E-mount hole just seems too small for FF with normal lenses. *Chopping of corner rays is not correctable in post.

    I don't need wide and my experience with specific lenses is limited. The Elmar 135 seems fine wide open but too long for a daily. The Summicron R 50 and the native 35 FE clean up enough by f5.6 or so, but that is a pretty serious limitation - or so it would seem. I say "seem" because many others are having much better success or are not as bothered by this particular problem. Point is, there is a real issue that some buyers may find critical.
    Well, that's what I found too - but of course it depends on what you're shooting - for street, sharp corners are rarely important - and that goes for candid and portrait photography and weddings too . . me? I shoot a lot of nature and landscape and there it DOES matter.

    Personally the 24mp of the M is okay - so there's my FF compact, but if you need more, then the A7r really is the only game in town. . . . . I have to keep telling myself that if you can make a 30" print with 24mp . . .then that equates to a 37" print with 36mp - a difference, but not a huge difference.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    That E-mount hole just seems too small for FF with normal lenses.
    Nikon F mount = 44mm
    Leica M mount = 44mm
    Olympus OM = 46mm
    Sony E mount = 46.1mm

    Graham
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Nikon F mount = 44mm
    Leica M mount = 44mm
    Olympus OM = 46mm
    Sony E mount = 46.1mm

    Graham
    Subtle posts are always lost.

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/552675-post768.html

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Nikon F mount = 44mm
    Leica M mount = 44mm
    Olympus OM = 46mm
    Sony E mount = 46.1mm

    Graham
    Graham, good point if a little simplistic. The size of the hole depends on the ray angles necessary to reach the sensor. Closer the mount to the sensor, larger the angles so it's relative.

    No need to get techie, though. Just look in the mount. Makes me feel like taking a file to ream out the corners a bit. Course, I could be dead wrong and it is not the hole at all. It could be a fundamental property of such small pixel sites interacting with the very obtuse rays. So they would need both hole and lenses bigger. Beyond my pay grade but I want Sony to think about fixing it. Or zeiss might be able to do a better job of dealing with it. Maybe they have in the 55. Either way works for me.

    Jono, I feel a bit less of a grinch after seeing your comment. I was worried it was just me being too demanding. There have been so many positive reviews, and it is a lovely package. Just this one thing....

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    I am unlikely to keep the A7r for very long. ... I hope a solution (the lens I am looking for) is imminent, or a less finicky FF compact will appear over the next year. For the moment, the A7r is the only game in town and it stays.
    I like your timeline--that replacing the camera "over the next year" isn't "very long." While I keep tabs on digital, which explains my attention to this thread, I jumped onto the Leica R system partly to avoid the mindset, encouraged by digital bodies, that a year is a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    The Summicron R 50 and the native 35 FE clean up enough by f5.6 or so, but that is a pretty serious limitation - or so it would seem. I say "seem" because many others are having much better success or are not as bothered by this particular problem.
    I'm curious: if the Summicron R 50 doesn't have corners that meet your expectations, then I don't see how the lens mount is to blame. Perhaps the sensor package, sensel wells, or the lens, but not the mount. Using my NEX (which is admittedly a poor analog), I would need to look from a quite wide angle before seeing where the corner of the 135-format sensor would be.

    BTW, feel free to get techie. I'm writing an article on MTF curves, as such things interest me, and always love to learn more. And as far as being demanding goes--well, I shoot 35mm film, so that says enough about me, but that's not relevant to the theory that nonetheless interests me.

    Cheers,
    Jon

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    The shutter vid is fun, but see how loud his voice is as background 'noise'? 65-70dB often. Sony clearly decided they did not mind the camera sounding like a DSLR, and I rather prefer its lazy delivery to the frantic report of the Canon DSLR.

    Nothing beats a leaf shutter for quietness, so it's good marketing to clearly differentiate the a7/r from the RX1, plus weight difference. Few RX1 owners will be selling, the lens is a gem and very good to the very corners.

    And 'library' sound levels:

    Comparative Examples of Noise Levels | Real World Examples and Decibel Levels |Industrial Noise Control

    Sony also knew a lot of photographers they wanted to attract have and love using super fast lenses. That 1/8000s is a stop shorter than the Nikon FX's 1/4000s...users of that Nikon will top out often with an f1.4 lens mounted, just as the RX1 does with its 1/2000 and f2 aperture. Same base ISO of 100, can expand to 50.

    What would be the satisfaction level of all the f1 or f1.2 lens owners if Sony fronted up with a 1/4000s max shutter speed camera in the a7 series? Even if it was a little quieter?

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Sigma proved with their DPxM series, particularly the DP2M, that essentially perfect corners are possible at an affordable price. The 35mm FE is not in the same league despite costing more than a DP2M. It's pretty good, but not to the corners. One has to ask why Zeiss cannot achieve what Sigma have, despite the price differential.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    I am challenged by this camera. I really want to like it because the IQ180 has made me a pixel addict. 24 MP is just not enough any more and I can't carry the MF equipment or a D800 around in my briefcase. I need the pixel density and compact size that the A7r provides.

    However, I am unlikely to keep the A7r for very long. The sensor is lovely and the camera handles fine, but I can't tolerate the corner artifacts. The problem is not primarily intensity vignetting, but the highly localized degradation in corner MTF. That E-mount hole just seems too small for FF with normal lenses. Chopping of corner rays is not correctable in post.

    I don't need wide and my experience with specific lenses is limited. The Elmar 135 seems fine wide open but too long for a daily. The Summicron R 50 and the native 35 FE clean up enough by f5.6 or so, but that is a pretty serious limitation - or so it would seem. I say "seem" because many others are having much better success or are not as bothered by this particular problem. Point is, there is a real issue that some buyers may find critical.

    I returned the 35 FE and am hoping the 55 will be better. Sadly, one preliminary review tells me to be prepared for vignetting so my hopes are not high. If I can find just one normal that does not show the mushy corners at f2, I will be happy with this camera.

    Perhaps I am unrealistic in wanting reasonably clean corners in a compact FF, but the mount engineering challenge does not seem all that great. Make a bigger hole. I hope a solution (the lens I am looking for) is imminent, or a less finicky FF compact will appear over the next year. For the moment, the A7r is the only game in town and it stays.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Graham, good point if a little simplistic. The size of the hole depends on the ray angles necessary to reach the sensor. Closer the mount to the sensor, larger the angles so it's relative.

    No need to get techie, though.
    It will be good to get technical about it. Regardless of the camera registry, it is the exit pupil of the lens that matters.

    What happens with a MF digi back and short back focal length lenses? Can I mount a super angulon 21mm or a 2.8cm Hektor on any Leica digital cam and expect uniform illumination? Same answers. There are hundreds of old lenses that are not compatible with the Leica M digital cameras when analyzed carefully even though they can be mounted and used.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Sigma proved with their DPxM series, particularly the DP2M, that essentially perfect corners are possible at an affordable price. The 35mm FE is not in the same league despite costing more than a DP2M. It's pretty good, but not to the corners. One has to ask why Zeiss cannot achieve what Sigma have, despite the price differential.
    The only difference is; this is full frame.

    Still waiting for Sigma to produce a FF Foveon camera

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    The only difference is; this is full frame.

    Still waiting for Sigma to produce a FF Foveon camera
    I don't think the phrase "full frame" has any significant meaning anymore, other than as shorthand for former 35mm film frame size. The A7r has a larger sensor, but relative edge sharpness does not automatically deteriorate as sensor size increases.

    But as an avowed DP2M enthusiast, despite its limitations, I would be first in line if Sigma were to release a "full frame" version of the DPxM series of 25mp or up, or a similarly specified DSLR, using their Foveon sensor technology.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It will be good to get technical about it. Regardless of the camera registry, it is the exit pupil of the lens that matters.

    What happens with a MF digi back and short back focal length lenses? Can I mount a super angulon 21mm or a 2.8cm Hektor on any Leica digital cam and expect uniform illumination? Same answers. There are hundreds of old lenses that are not compatible with the Leica M digital cameras when analyzed carefully even though they can be mounted and used.
    Vivek and Jon, I agree it would be great to understand the technical bits. However, at this point I don't think we have enough info. Understanding (as opposed to complaining about) specific design flaws (corner mush in this case) requires we understand the design brief. Perhaps Sony/Zeiss will give us a white paper at some point and then we can chime in.

    Every optical train is a set of compromises. With the design tools available today, the final package should not contain many technical surprises - but we can be surprised at what designers think is important. If a new lens mushes the corners it was probably allowed to in exchange for some other aspect of performance. That deserves some comment from us as end users.

    I can imagine the marketing group saying "we need this MTF at 50% from center while allowing use of existing e-mount lenses". The camera designer says "OK, here's a package that can do it". The lens people say "this lens design will suit, but there will be some corner softness". What I am sure no one said is "wait a minute, this will be a problem for Leica wides". At some point in ringi, the compromises became accepted and everyone moved on to production. I would like to help Sony think more carefully about corner mush in their native lenses. That's probably what the microlenses are all about but they haven't worked out particularly well.

    You are right. People are taking lens selection way beyond what Sony intended. I am sure Sony are shocked at the level of interest in the use of their proprietary camera with non-native lenses. For example, I would happily buy this thing a lovely and expensive Leica lens - and I am pretty cheap. That is what is potentially revolutionary about the A7 family. A small, high res camera that accepts lots of lenses would be a prayer answered for many advanced photographers.

    As it is, that is not what Sony appears to have designed. Traditionally, a new Sony design should encourage people to use Sony lenses. If Sony get beyond that, they may develop a new set of compromises in the next iteration. This is particularly true because their own lenses seem to have the same needs as others. The only FE lens out there exhibits corner mush unless stopped down.

    Ya know, the 55 may come out and be just fine. In that case, this is all a tempest in a teapot and life will be good.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post

    As it is, that is not what Sony appears to have designed.
    Contrary to that, Peter, that is exactly what they are offering! Sony Australia actually gives out a free adapter of choice with the purchase of an A7R and my A7R came with a default "shoot without lens" option turned "ON".

    The majority who are buying know what they are getting. Some may be disappointed.

    There is no turning back the clock or putting the genie back in a lamp.

    Do I have lenses that work with the A7R without corner mush and or color issues, yes I do and with more choices than I can ever have with any system.

    The best part is that I do not have to register my name with some boutique shop to get a call 1 year later that my camera is available. :-)
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Boutique shop

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Boutique shop
    Yes!! In the Netherlands: Leica Boutique Lisse, powered by Foto Henny Hoogeveen

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Vivek and Jon, I agree it would be great to understand the technical bits. However, at this point I don't think we have enough info. Understanding (as opposed to complaining about) specific design flaws (corner mush in this case) requires we understand the design brief. Perhaps Sony/Zeiss will give us a white paper at some point and then we can chime in.

    Every optical train is a set of compromises. With the design tools available today, the final package should not contain many technical surprises - but we can be surprised at what designers think is important. If a new lens mushes the corners it was probably allowed to in exchange for some other aspect of performance. That deserves some comment from us as end users.

    I can imagine the marketing group saying "we need this MTF at 50% from center while allowing use of existing e-mount lenses". The camera designer says "OK, here's a package that can do it". The lens people say "this lens design will suit, but there will be some corner softness". What I am sure no one said is "wait a minute, this will be a problem for Leica wides". At some point in ringi, the compromises became accepted and everyone moved on to production. I would like to help Sony think more carefully about corner mush in their native lenses. That's probably what the microlenses are all about but they haven't worked out particularly well.

    You are right. People are taking lens selection way beyond what Sony intended. I am sure Sony are shocked at the level of interest in the use of their proprietary camera with non-native lenses. For example, I would happily buy this thing a lovely and expensive Leica lens - and I am pretty cheap. That is what is potentially revolutionary about the A7 family. A small, high res camera that accepts lots of lenses would be a prayer answered for many advanced photographers.

    As it is, that is not what Sony appears to have designed. Traditionally, a new Sony design should encourage people to use Sony lenses. If Sony get beyond that, they may develop a new set of compromises in the next iteration. This is particularly true because their own lenses seem to have the same needs as others. The only FE lens out there exhibits corner mush unless stopped down.

    Ya know, the 55 may come out and be just fine. In that case, this is all a tempest in a teapot and life will be good.
    I've been a Sony user for some time now.

    I'd be shocked if they did not grasp that their mirrorless cameras are being used with other optics. Other-wise why in the heck would you launch a game changing camera with no "real" native lens options? So, right of the bat, this camera is an option for Sony users ... a natural extension of what they already have ... which is probably why the new A adapters for this camera were available before the A7/A7R cameras or FE lenses. I've had mine for a month and still no camera.

    Sony has one foot in the general consumer market, and the other in the advanced amateur/Pro market. Frankly, most consumers wouldn't know or care about hair-splitting corner smear if it was pointed out to them ... and frankly a lot of advanced/pros aren't overly concerned, depending on what they shoot.

    It'd be nice if Zeiss adds high performance optics for this type of camera ... especially if they shoe-horn in 54 meg like the SR4 Sony Rumors indicate.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I did not know they called themselves Boutique. Funny!
    Looks like a real jewelryshop!

    A quote from their homepage text:

    "" And also collectors know the route to the Chapel Street. Last time there was a guy in the store, who bought a Leica with lens and was absolutely not going to photograph with it. He touched the model with white gloves, left it as it is and had it packed as if it was The Nightwatch and told us that the acquisition gets a spot in the closet at home next to all the other captured M-models.
    You have such fanatics. Beautiful isn't it.""

    Very relaxed, you don't have to go out and shoot pictures all the time!

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    I did not know they called themselves Boutique. Funny!
    Looks like a real jewelryshop!

    A quote from their homepage text:

    "" And also collectors know the route to the Chapel Street. Last time there was a guy in the store, who bought a Leica with lens and was absolutely not going to photograph with it. He touched the model with white gloves, left it as it is and had it packed as if it was The Nightwatch and told us that the acquisition gets a spot in the closet at home next to all the other captured M-models.
    You have such fanatics. Beautiful isn't it.""

    Very relaxed, you don't have to go out and shoot pictures all the time!
    All true! The sad part is that there are too many such fondlers around. Hard to believe but absolutely true!

    FWIW, it was a decent shop. The place where I first saw the Bessa L and the Cosina 15/4.5, years ago!
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It'd be nice if Zeiss adds high performance optics for this type of camera ... especially if they shoe-horn in 54 meg like the SR4 Sony Rumors indicate.
    I expect Zeiss to do just that, but designing an optic that will hold up with future high-res sensors isn't done over night. I believe the Otus 1.4/55 was three years in the making.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, that's what I found too - but of course it depends on what you're shooting - for street, sharp corners are rarely important - and that goes for candid and portrait photography and weddings too . . me? I shoot a lot of nature and landscape and there it DOES matter.

    Personally the 24mp of the M is okay - so there's my FF compact, but if you need more, then the A7r really is the only game in town. . . . . I have to keep telling myself that if you can make a 30" print with 24mp . . .then that equates to a 37" print with 36mp - a difference, but not a huge difference.
    I think you nail the whole entire issue right here Jono. Well said.

    I picked up my A7R yesterday. The first shipment into LA I was told. You lucky folks in the rest of the world have had them for a week already. And I see that has been plenty of time to get everyones feathers nicely ruffled

    Me, I almost never shoot a landscape, though once in awhile I do shoot some wild critters when they show up and pose nicely. What I shoot primarily is people, musicians, portrait, lifestyle, event, documentary, the whole enchilada. I still do some tabletop work as well, but that has pretty well died off now days. I used to shoot mostly Leica rangefinders, for all the usual reasons.

    Rarely are any of my edges sharp, save for the rejected frames where I accidentally stopped the lens down while focusing F/8 may be great for getting full depth of field consistently, but the realities of shooting in very low light are you never use f/8. I do use f2 - f5.6 most often. So edge smearing isn't something I am particularly concerned with for the most part, nor aware of since I almost never see sharp edges

    What I am concerned with is having a camera body that gets out of my way and allows me to work the way I want to work - stealthy, small, ultra portable, intuitive uncomplicated operation, and with outstanding image quality. That for me has been traditionally Leica M bodies (film and digital), and Leica or Zeiss lenses. But the cost of Leica M has gone out of this professional photographers reach. They have increased in price almost every year of the past fifteen or twenty years, and they will go up again in January.

    The Fuji X-E1 was a fine camera for this past year, but in some ways when compared to my old M9 it was lacking. I can't say for sure after just one evening testing, but this A7R feels good so it does look promising. I'll let you know if I find any issues with my lenses, but I'm pretty sure for my kinds of shooting that won't be a problem.
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