Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 37 of 37

Thread: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

  1. #1
    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tysons Corner, Virginia
    Posts
    490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    18

    Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Like many I've been fascinated by Sony's efforts to cut digital photography down to size first with the NEX series, then the RX's (RX1, RX2 and RX100 and RX100 II) and now with the A7/A7r combos.

    Reports for the highly pre- and post acclaimed A7 and A7r have been mostly positive and praise seems to be nearly entirely focused (pun intended) on the 'game-changing' OM-1-esque physical size, sensor megapixelage, ability to use gazillions of lenses from other marques (despite Sony's apparent dearth of anything initially save for what appears to be a very sharp and somewhat slow, albeit corner smearing, f2.8 35mm and an apparently very very sharp f1.8 55mm optic) and, clearly, the lower price point.

    But from what I can tell there seems to be a pass on the shutter loudness, so-so AF, and significant color casts and other anomalies when using anything wider than 35mm. (Curiously, however, not enough of a concern for outfits like POP Photo and others to crown Sony's latest, "Camera of the year".)

    Ashwin Rao and others have already expressed concerns using the A7r handheld unless you totally ramp up sensor signal amplification (a.k.a. ISO) allowing you to use seriously high shutter speeds or expect blurry shots when using these cameras hand held. I've seen many posts and reviews that issue the caveat of using 'careful' technique particularly for the 36 mp model. (Read: use a tripod and check your seismograph before heading out.)

    The care factor was certainly brought to light to me (yes another pun intended) yesterday when I went over the "Photography Blog" website (Home | PhotographyBLOG) who'd recently published their reviews of Sony/Zeiss 55mm f1.8 as well as the A7 and A7r and downloaded sample images. I also downloaded images taken with the RX1 which they had reviewed earlier in the year. (What's nice about these guys is their sample images are frequently of identical subjects and scenes so comparisons are relatively easy. For example, they often shoot an alley way or entry way apparently near their office with a bicycle hanging or parked there. I was able to download the same scene taken with the 55 mounted on the A7 and A7r and even the RX1 which I also viewed in comparison).

    While some of the shots were quite impressive (yah-yah detail in spades) I was really shocked at how blurred many of the images were when taken by A7 and A7r vs the RX1.

    Then the Richard Feynman in me kicked in and began to wonder if something else was afoot with the physics going on here.

    As many have noted there is a considerable SHLUCK from the shutter of both the A7 and the A7r. Now while many have viewed it as an issue to be considered when shooting a guy trying to set up mile-long falling domino demonstration to get into the Guiness Book of Records I took the sound to mean a very potent shutter mechanism with apparently very little damping which means a significant amount of energy released with every press of the spongy button.

    In a larger camera, (like a typical DSLR) there is enough mass (or from your perspective lbs or newtons) that the energy released from an equivalent shutter would most likely go unaffected. That is, due to the larger mass (i.e. greater weight) of a typical DSLR there is greater inertia (or tendency to stay at rest) from the much greater weight of the DSLR vs the relative flea-like weight of the A7 or A7r. A camera with less mass would require less energy to get it rockin' and rollin' than a camera with significantly larger mass (since more molecules have to be jostled to move in any significant way). In other words, the smaller size of Sony's achievement coupled with their somewhat beefy shutter mechanism is why, despite good handholding technique, unless you're really anchored it, there's considerable shake, rattle and roll going on inside and that results in a greater chance of having blurred the image from all that going on while the shutter, however briefly, is open and the sensor is taking in all that photonic goodness. (Thus the remarks about how 'unforgiving' the camera is and caveats for having good technique when using it!)

    Interestingly enough, the RX1 uses a leaf shutter instead of a focal plane shutter. And this along with it's somewhat 'denser' construction plays a major role in making sure that camera yields a higher percentage of tack sharp images at somewhat slower shutter speeds. A leaf shutter is much more 'balanced' than a focal plane shutter because the blades all move in one direction (and, thus, transmit a force going in one direction--the direction the blades all move concurrently--which you have to counterbalance with your own steadiness if you're holding the camera in your hands). The leaf shutter's action, on the other hand (so to speak), is a more 'balanced' action with the mechanism pulling the blades away from a center in equal with lines of force going opposite directions so any vibrations created actually 'cancel' each other out with less extra work on your part to keep the camera steady (sort of the principle behind the circular airplane engines of yore to keep vibration down). This contributes to the RX1's ability to produce tack sharp images even when hand held at slower shutter speeds. (Although adding a somewhat heavy grip from Really Really Stuff will improve this even more! I mean the thing IS small and the finish quite slippery!)

    Just a thought.

    Now for a short quiz. :sleep006:
    Last edited by peterb; 6th December 2013 at 08:40.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    I just weighed my Leica CL and the A7R to see which one is heavier. The 7R is heavier.

    A bit of history here: Leica Minolta* CL

    From that page:

    During its life, CL's outsold the M's more than 2 to 1. Yet the official reason for the CL's demise that it was not a commercial success.
    In an ancient era, Leica shooters used to add lead underneath their tiny film cameras to add some weight. Such a thing is easily done if anyone finds the A7/7R "too light".

    While the shutter of the A7R is hardly as quiet as that of the CL, the 7R is a state of the art camera.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    I have yet to do a side-by-side comparison with respect to shutter-induced vibration between A7R and D800E, but my subjective impression is that there's not a big difference between the two cameras with this regard. It seems to me that the somewhat drawn-out and measured pace of the A7R's shutter actuation goes a long way towards reducing vibrations. The shutter is not that loud, actually.

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    It seems to me that the somewhat drawn-out and measured pace of the A7R's shutter actuation goes a long way towards reducing vibrations. The shutter is not that loud, actually.
    I agree.

  5. #5
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post

    Interestingly enough, the RX1 uses a leaf shutter instead of a focal plane shutter.
    FYI, the RX1/RX1R does not have a traditional leaf shutter. It is a curtain shutter similar to a focal plane shutter but is near the iris diaphram instead of the sensor.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #6
    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tysons Corner, Virginia
    Posts
    490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    18

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    HI Vivek,

    There have been so many conflicting reports I just started to wonder. Also didn't realize the RX shutter is a FP positioned inside the lens. (Thanks for pointing that out!)

    And I agree that the A7r is most definitely SOTA! It's an electronic tour-de-force! Some of your postings among others have been nothing short of jaw-dropping! By the way I also think the extra battery/grip will add significantly to camera stability.

    Re: the Leica CL and other cameras, do you think the randomness of film grain on gelatin coated plastic vs the precision of an electronic sensor array account for the differences on why a CL (and every other film based camera) would be less susceptible to shake at this level than these modern marvels?

    P
    Last edited by peterb; 6th December 2013 at 09:42.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Beach Haven, NJ
    Posts
    685
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    As I recall, the CL stood for "Compact Leica"
    Dave

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    HI Vivek,

    There have been so many conflicting reports I just started to wonder. Also didn't realize the RX shutter is a FP positioned inside the lens. (Thanks for pointing that out!)

    And I agree that the A7r is most definitely SOTA! It's an electronic tour-de-force! Some of your postings among others have been nothing short of jaw-dropping!

    Re: the Leica CL and other cameras, do you think the randomness of film grain on gelatin coated plastic vs the precision of an electronic sensor array account for the differences on why a CL (and every other film based camera) would be less susceptible to shake at this level than these modern marvels?

    P

    Hi Peter,

    I have mentioned this before and I will do it again, in this context-

    I have shot with one of the more common high res film (Techpan) in search of the ultimate resolution, with the ultimate lenses and the best possible techniques (I even bought and used a Cibachrome archive film that has a capability of recording as much as 1000 lp/mm at a whopping 0.01ASA speed)- grain always wins over the details when it comes to the small format film.

    The magic is in the unkown while taking a shot and finding something much, much later, away from the actual scene, to be "blown away".

    This delayed gratification is nearly absent with the live view cams. A big let down.

    If I (saturated with coffee all the time) keep my eye on the EVF and take a shot with the A7R, even 1/15s is manageable. I mentioned this with one of my early shots with an APO Componon 40/2.8 lens.

    I saw Michiel handling (for the first time!) my A7R and taking sharp images with cheap adapters and Contax lenses. He does not have any special handling technique.

    The only tip I can offer to anyone is, drink a lot of coffee and enjoy whatever camera appeals to you!
    Last edited by Vivek; 6th December 2013 at 10:49. Reason: missing words
    Likes 5 Member(s) liked this post

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    k-hawinkler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The "Land of Enchantment"
    Posts
    3,300
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    With best regards, K-H.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Thanks for that, Karl-Heinz! Here it gets interesting - the rest is mainly speculation and worry:

    Sony A7r shutter vibration - FM Forums

    Time permitting, I'll do a comparison with the D800E this weekend...
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    363
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    3

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    The shutter of the a7r is much preferable to that of most DSLRs, many will enjoy it's lazy yet authoritative delivery. It will get a pass from anyone who wants to use the camera the way it was intended, I would say.

    I have seen literally thousands of very sharp handheld images shot with this camera. People's hands differ in steadiness and they use different techniques with differing outcomes.

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Michiel Schierbeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam/Normandy
    Posts
    4,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    762

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Peter,

    I saw Michiel handling (for the first time!) my A7R and taking sharp images with cheap adapters and Contax lenses. He does not have any special handling technique.

    The only tip I can offer to anyone is, drink a lot of coffee and enjoy whatever camera appeals to you!
    But Vivek, I did not drink coffee for several years because it made me shaky
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #13
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    But Vivek, I did not drink coffee for several years because it made me shaky
    Yes, you only had green tea.

    Perhaps, I should have added whatever is is favorite beverage?

  14. #14
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?


  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Nice post Peter.
    I'd say that the weight was just right, but the shutter is undoubtedly too loud (even if it's a decent noise). The electronic first curtain on the A7 certainly makes it quieter (and might easily reduce vibrations). I certainly didn't have problems with camera shake though.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    44
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    I haven't used an a7 or a7r, but I have an rx-1. I found the rx-1 hard to hold steady, especially before I got the EVF. However, my main camera is an a99 which is both larger, heavier, better grip and, most importantly, includes built in anti-shake.

    I wish Sony had included sensor based anti-shake on the a7 and a7r. If they had, I would have bought one (I actually bought the rx-1 after the a7r was announced).

    I was much steadier before I ever used a camera with anti-shake (I also used a tripod more often)! I guess I need to learn how to be steady again if this feature is going away.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  17. #17
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    As stated in a different thread, I've taken a good number of images with the APO-Telyt-M 135 this afternoon, and have to say that shutter vibration is more of an issue with the A7R than it should be, IMO. Not a show stopper, but certainly something that needs to be considered carefully if highly detailed images are what you're after.

    Since I generally try to maximize DR in my landscape images (and thus try to shoot at base-ISO whenever possible), I'm thinking about using an ND-filter to slow shutter speeds down into the territory where shutter-induced vibrations are no longer an issue (~2s or longer). I'll give this approach a go sometime soon...

  18. #18
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Lloyd Chambers has just posted shutter vibration tests carried out with the A7R, a Zeiss APO-Sonnar 2/135, Novoflex NEX/NIK adapter and Novoflex ASTAT-NEX tripod collar (paid subscription required). The gist: anything below 1/125s (in general likely 1/f or even 1/2f) degrades micro-contrast to the extent that negates the resolution advantage of the A7R over the A7 and that of this stellar lens over less expensive lenses.

    It is important to note here that these tests are only valid for this specific test setup. Changing any part of which (e.g. using a lighter, shorter lens or a different tripod head) would likely produce different results. I wish the A7R had an electronic first shutter curtain like the A7 and the NEX-7, but there apparently are issues related to this particular sensor's reset/read-out speed that prevent this feature from being implemented (the D800/E does not offer it, either).

    diglloyd blog - Sony A7R: Shutter Vibration at 135mm
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post

    It is important to note here that these tests are only valid for this specific test setup. Changing any part of which (e.g. using a lighter, shorter lens or a different tripod head) would likely produce different results.
    That is the key. Not a generalization but adds to the myth.

    I am still not buying a subscription regardless of how many times you are going to quote this site.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #20
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am still not buying a subscription regardless of how many times you are going to quote this site.
    That's not what I am aiming at - quite the opposite: I am summarizing the findings for you, so you don't have to...
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  21. #21
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Let me just say that Lloyd Chambers is a very thorough and methodical reviewer, and let's leave it at that...

  22. #22
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Let me just say that Lloyd Chambers is a very thorough and methodical reviewer, and let's leave it at that...
    I am not, for example, and I hesitate to share anything when such "authorities" are quoted without having any public access to whatever they have "found".

    Let me add this example- Here: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/495...ake-macro.html

    is a clear indication of the use of an open forum like this where exchange of ideas and suggestions are beneficial instead quoting someone and creating a "below 1/160s" myth.
    Last edited by Vivek; 11th December 2013 at 06:16. Reason: Addition
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #23
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    k-hawinkler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The "Land of Enchantment"
    Posts
    3,300
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Like everybody Lloyd Chambers has his bias.
    With best regards, K-H.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  24. #24
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Knorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,996
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Mmmm, I shot this series at ISO100 and between 1/15 and 0.8 sec using the Novoflex tripod collar.
    Am I in trouble now ?
    Bart ...
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #25
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    k-hawinkler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The "Land of Enchantment"
    Posts
    3,300
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Mmmm, I shot this series at ISO100 and between 1/15 and 0.8 sec using the Novoflex tripod collar.
    Am I in trouble now ?
    Hi Bart. Me thinks you are in deep doo-doo now.
    If you feel like unloading your A7R I offer 50 cents on the dollar.
    With best regards, K-H.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  26. #26
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Like everybody Lloyd Chambers has his bias.
    True, but the images posted as part of the aforementioned shutter vibration test report speak for themselves…
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #27
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Mmmm, I shot this series at ISO100 and between 1/15 and 0.8 sec using the Novoflex tripod collar.
    Am I in trouble now ?
    As exposures get longer, the detrimental influence of the relatively short-lived shutter vibration decreases proportionally, until it becomes completely invisible by approx. 2s (see my above observation regarding the APO-Telyt-M 135).

    Edit: you're not in trouble, but you are giving away image quality that your setup is capable of by using sub-optimal shutter speeds.

  28. #28
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    True, but the images posted as part of the aforementioned shutter vibration test report speak for themselves…
    How do they speak? invisibly and mystically via proxies?

  29. #29
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    I don't need to answer that Vivek, do I?

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Ron, Just like that macro thread demonstrated what if people are oblvious to certain physics facts and start philosphizing their failure to understand the subtleties? Anything that reaffirms ones belief is worth the cash, I suppose. Sort of like comfort food.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    I think it's perfectly fine if people post their findings in words instead of in images that you can evaluate yourself. What you do with that information is entirely up to you...

  32. #32
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    I think it's perfectly fine if people post their findings in words instead of in images that you can evaluate yourself. What you do with that information is entirely up to you...
    Sure.

    The common culprit to me is very clear. A7r sensor is fine, apo sonnar, apo etc are fine, the culprit is the Novoflex adapter.

    Take a look at the Novoflex "Castle" from 50 years ago and the current one with attractive blue anodized aluminum. Which one is better and why? I will leave it to the curious to find out.

  33. #33
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?



    While I admit to being a novice with this camera, only having had it in hand for an hour or so .... here are a few shots ... one at ISO320 and the other at ISO1600 ... both hand-held @ 1/30 ... keeping in mind this was after consuming three of my usual palsy inducing triple shot lattes

    Not to contradict his Lordship Lloyd Chambers, but no tripod, monopod, strap-pod, bean-bag or leaning on anything ... pure USDA Prime hand held in both portrait and landscape orientations.

    Maybe the Fat A$$ 50/0.95 adds enough mass to tame any vibrations

    - Marc

    Oh, and these files are so huge that most prints I'd make would be native sized or reduced ... increasing the visual impression of acuity.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  34. #34
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Not to contradict his Lordship Lloyd Chambers, but no tripod, monopod, strap-pod, bean-bag or leaning on anything ... pure USDA Prime hand held in both portrait and landscape orientations.
    For my part, I can clearly see strong motion blur (whatever the cause) in the crop you provided.

    At any rate, comparing the motion blur of an image taken with a 50mm lens to that taken with a 135, 180 or 280mm lens is comparing apples to oranges (or more like cherry tomatoes to water melons).

    Maybe the Fat A$$ 50/0.95 adds enough mass to tame any vibrations
    If it were indeed blur free, I'd say that the dampening provided by your body is a significant advantage over a very rigid tripod setup.

    Oh, and these files are so huge that most prints I'd make would be native sized or reduced ... increasing the visual impression of acuity.
    I agree that I wouldn't like to see these images at 24x36" on my wall . A landscape image with that amount of blur would not even make it to my printer. It might be used online/on-screen or end up in the trash.

  35. #35
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    For my part, I can clearly see strong motion blur (whatever the cause) in the crop you provided.

    At any rate, comparing the motion blur of an image taken with a 50mm lens to that taken with a 135, 180 or 280mm lens is comparing apples to oranges (or more like cherry tomatoes to water melons).



    If it were indeed blur free, I'd say that the dampening provided by your body is a significant advantage over a very rigid tripod setup.



    I agree that I wouldn't like to see these images at 24x36" on my wall . A landscape image with that amount of blur would not even make it to my printer. It might be used online/on-screen or end up in the trash.
    In case you have not heard, Peter B moved on to a wonderful Canon 6D where these problems are absent.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  36. #36
    Senior Member Show Performance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Sounds like a lot of unwarranted hand wringing and teeth gnashing. The cameras are not too light, rather perfect for a small handheld.

    I had the RX1 and I haven't noticed any more or less blur in photos taken by the A7. Maybe the A7r is more of a challenge due to the denser sensor but I can't report first hand.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Are the A7 & A7r too light?

    Personal expectations/demands for the technical quality of one's work aside, it seems to me that there is value in equipment that rewards more precise use.

    The question I have is whether high resolution images actually deteriorate when not used in such an exacting manner. Is there any case where an image is technically worse due to camera motion blur than if it would be if taken with a lower resolution camera?

    My initial thought is that, if the A7r has 22% (linear) smaller pixels than the A7, shake blur affecting 1.22 pixels would be the maximum amount that wouldn't be detected on an A7. Yet, if that blur were horizontal, the A7r would still have 22% more vertical resolution. The blur would affect some subjects more than others, but that's not a technical quality: the A7r still has more resolution on other planes. And, if the blur does have a negative effect, one can add directional blur in post to make the image have the same resolution as a camera that would not have been affected by the shake.

    But initial thoughts are often wrong and I respect the knowledge of this community. Anyone care to share a pointer or two?

    Cheers.
    Jon

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •