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Thread: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

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    Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Just wondering if anyone tried using the Voigtlander Leica to Nex adapter on their Sony A7 with the Leica WATE?

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I tried it on the A7r, and it was fine - nice adapter, nice lens, nice camera - no disagreement, no colour shift, no smeared edges

    TICK

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Jono
    Maybe you can buy that used a7r you returned for a fraction of the original price.
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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Glad to hear that the WATE works well on the A7r. If I were thinking about using Leica M lenses on A7r, the WATE and APO-135 are the only two lenses that I care. For the others, I will much prefer to use them on M9.
    Last edited by Ocean; 10th December 2013 at 19:56.
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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I actually like the result of the 50 lux asph. Did not like the result of the 35 lux asph however. My adapter did not allow me to use the WATE because it causes serious vignette. Can't wait to try the Voigtlander with the WATE.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I will be getting the Voigtlander adapter and a Leica WATE to try out Thur or Friday..

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I have the Voigtlander VM-E adapter. I like it enough I bought a second one for the A7r I just bought last night.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I use the Voigtlander adapter as well with all my M lenses, including WATE, no problem at all.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    These images are taken using the Voltlander adapter.

    a7r-LeicaWATE

    Neil

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Great adapter. Works like a charm with all my Leica lenses. Purchased from CameraQuest with very fast shipping and 30 day returns. I am, though, unhappy with the results from my 35 Summicron Asph and 24mm Elmarit-M Asph which has nothing to do with the adapter. My 50 Summicron and 90 Apo Summicron Asph are outstanding.

    Victor

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    One lens that i just tried on my A7 and really liking the look is the Zeiss 85 Sonnar ZM. I am using it with a cheapo adapter and it worked wondefully

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Jono
    Maybe you can buy that used a7r you returned for a fraction of the original price.
    HI There Lou
    long since gone - they sold it as OpenBox - I don't suppose they needed to discount it at all, as there was no free stock at the time.

    I already knew the WATE was okay (although Neil's link does suggest some soft corners at 16mm and F4 (I didn't find them, but my subject was 20 ft away).

    I have a perfectly good M to attach my WATE to - when I took the camera back there wasn't any lens I had which worked better on the A7r than the M - or any that I could shoot on the A7r but not on the M, but I'll wait and see if the 24-70 f4 and the 55 f1.8 are good - if so I might dip a toe back in the water

    all the best

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    If WATE is still subject of adapter variability, then A7r is not really for me. The more I read, the more I think that I will be better off with an M240.
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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
    If WATE is still subject of adapter variability, then A7r is not really for me. The more I read, the more I think that I will be better off with an M240.

    Good luck then with Leica's poor QA.
    I hope you get a perfect M.

    BTW, my WATE seems flawless on my A7R.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I have not tried my WATE on A7r so I don't know if it will have a corner/edge problem. I really like the IQ of WATE on my M9 but it requires the huge finder (excellent finder BTW) which is not very convenient to use for me. As for QA of Leica, I have owned both M8 and M9 and so far, they have been trouble free.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
    I have not tried my WATE on A7r so I don't know if it will have a corner/edge problem. I really like the IQ of WATE on my M9 but it requires the huge finder (excellent finder BTW) which is not very convenient to use for me. As for QA of Leica, I have owned both M8 and M9 and so far, they have been trouble free.
    Agreed. Have owned the M8, M9, and now M240 and had no problems with QA. I think that the forums are skewed toward reports of problems in all products.

    The Novoflex adapter seems to be fine on the A7R with the WATE. I don't think that you can beat the WATE on the M240. It is my impression that it is a little better in the extreme corners wide open at 16mm on the M240. I will say that I haven't seen any exactly taken side by side photos to compare, but I think this is going to come out with more testing.

    But, it is certainly one of the few lenses in the M catalog that works at all well on the A7R until you get beyond 50mm.

    As an aside, for sure the EVF won't lock the camera up on you when you use the A7R and the WATE. I guess that could be defined as QA?

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by neil View Post
    These images are taken using the Voltlander adapter.

    a7r-LeicaWATE

    Neil
    Thanks for the link Neil

    I did my testing with the WATE at 20 ft - these show soft corners at all focal lengths - which I didn't see.

    I'd say that if you want to use wide angle lenses for landscape on the A7r you'd better stick to slr lenses - I was sure the WATE was okay (and for sure there is no colour shift) , but these aren't okay - and you can't magic back soft corners.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post

    BTW, my WATE seems flawless on my A7R.
    So is the lens in Neil's link faulty? I'm interested, because my initial impression was that the WATE was fine as well, but these are not okay

    all the best

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    So is the lens in Neil's link faulty? I'm interested, because my initial impression was that the WATE was fine as well, but these are not okay

    all the best
    These photos are interesting to see. I was under the impression that I was getting softer corners wide open on my WATE at 16mm, but didn't want to commit to a comment because, I have taken no photos like these of Neil's of the building. It is hard to compare photos I've taken with my M and the A7R because, none are of the exact same subject that I've shot.

    But, as I stated above, it is my impression that the A7R is a little soft in the extreme corners with the WATE.

    Overall, my experience with the A7R has been frustrating with M lenses. Mine is going back as well. I felt a little mislead by Sony providing M-E adaptors (from Novoflex) in some of their promotional material and stating that the short registration of the A7R and the sensor design would allow use of other manufacturers' lenses. I guess that I can't pinpoint Sony saying specifically that Leica M lenses would work well with their camera, but I feel it was inferred.

    I considered keeping it and using other lenses, but all of my lenses are M lenses. I'm not sure what lenses I would buy to use on it. Sony has nothing that remotely interests me. Anything that might be an option isn't going to be small and that is certainly a requirement, for me.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    These photos are interesting to see. I was under the impression that I was getting softer corners wide open on my WATE at 16mm, but didn't want to commit to a comment because, I have taken no photos like these of Neil's of the building. It is hard to compare photos I've taken with my M and the A7R because, none are of the exact same subject that I've shot.

    But, as I stated above, it is my impression that the A7R is a little soft in the extreme corners with the WATE.

    Overall, my experience with the A7R has been frustrating with M lenses. Mine is going back as well. I felt a little mislead by Sony providing M-E adaptors (from Novoflex) in some of their promotional material and stating that the short registration of the A7R and the sensor design would allow use of other manufacturers' lenses. I guess that I can't pinpoint Sony saying specifically that Leica M lenses would work well with their camera, but I feel it was inferred.

    I considered keeping it and using other lenses, but all of my lenses are M lenses. I'm not sure what lenses I would buy to use on it. Sony has nothing that remotely interests me. Anything that might be an option isn't going to be small and that is certainly a requirement, for me.
    You had the wrong impression. AFAIK, Sony never gave any adapter made by Novoflex with the A7R (in Australia). They did give LA-EA4 made by themselves or the ones made by Metabones (Nikon F and Canon EOS).

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Ok, whatever... I'll change my statement to, Sony gave a promotion for a M-E Metabones adapter in the Australian box with the camera.

    My point is, that by supplying an adapter to try with their camera may not implicitly suggest it will work, but it does imply that it will. Knowing that most all of Leica's lenses are retrofocus designs, it is hard to imagine Sony's engineers were not aware that most all Leica M lenses would fail to produce good images on their camera.

    I, like most were somehow under the impression that we could use our M lenses on this new camera and get acceptable results. This is not true and I'll return mine. Simple, but a little disingenuous.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    Ok, whatever... I'll change my statement to, Sony gave a promotion for a M-E Metabones adapter in the Australian box with the camera.

    My point is, that by supplying an adapter to try with their camera may not implicitly suggest it will work, but it does imply that it will. Knowing that most all of Leica's lenses are retrofocus designs, it is hard to imagine Sony's engineers were not aware that most all Leica M lenses would fail to produce good images on their camera.

    I, like most were somehow under the impression that we could use our M lenses on this new camera and get acceptable results. This is not true and I'll return mine. Simple, but a little disingenuous.
    Again, no leica M adapter was ever offered, AFAIK.

    As for "all" Leica lenses being of retrofocal design- even Leica would strongly dispute that!

    It is one thing that the camera does not work for you. That is fine.

    Claiming Leica lenses are something that they are not is wrong.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    So is the lens in Neil's link faulty? I'm interested, because my initial impression was that the WATE was fine as well, but these are not okay

    all the best
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Again, no leica M adapter was ever offered, AFAIK.

    As for "all" Leica lenses being of retrofocal design- even Leica would strongly dispute that!

    It is one thing that the camera does not work for you. That is fine.

    Claiming Leica lenses are something that they are not is wrong.
    Sorry, Sony did supply material that offers an M adaptor, it was found in the the box of the A7, you are simply wrong.

    I won't get into an argument about the exact definition of retrofocus design. That is covered elsewhere. But the design of Leica M lenses do not lend themselves to producing good image quality in the edges of sensors with thicker IR glass coverings. This is also covered elsewhere. You can read about that as well on your own.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Geez! I am saying that even Leica themselves will not claim that all their M lenses are of retrofocal design!

    Do you know how thick the IR cut filter is in the M9 and the one in A7R?

    Have you seen pictures posted here using the A7R and Leica M lenses?

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thanks for the link Neil

    I did my testing with the WATE at 20 ft - these show soft corners at all focal lengths - which I didn't see.

    I'd say that if you want to use wide angle lenses for landscape on the A7r you'd better stick to slr lenses - I was sure the WATE was okay (and for sure there is no colour shift) , but these aren't okay - and you can't magic back soft corners.
    Jono, is the WATE 'perfect' on M240 in terms of color cast and corner/edge sharpness?

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    A Sony Rep said here in Australia that the A7(R) works well with rangefinder lenses, see about 29:20 Sony Alpha A7 & A7R - Hands-on at the Launch event - DigiDIRECT TV Ep 049 - YouTube I was at this event and this comment was made around the time the Ron Scheffler images were being talked about. So I found it odd he said it.

    However my two cents on this issue is that every adapter is different even from the same brand and its possible that soft corners are showing up because of a bad adapter. Although if multiple adapters show the same issue then it's probably not the adapter.
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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I think the gist is that many M-mount lenses are challenged in the digital realm (particularly wides), no matter what the camera platform is. Just look at the lengths to which Leica had to go to make them work acceptably (oblong micro lenses, profile corrections). It really is an example of shoehorning a legacy standard into a new technology framework, and the outcome is a more or less acceptable compromise.

    Edit: I am not expecting *any* M-mount lens to perform flawlessly on a non-Leica body. Any other expectation will likely lead to disappointment, IMO. And being positively surprised is always nice…

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Forgive me if I am asking something stupid, but I read this thread an wonder what other people are doing with pictures. I work with an a99 and a ZA16-35 wide angle zoom. I am very happy with this combination and usually print at least 50x75 (cm). when I then see the result of the WATE on the a7r, I think this lens is amazing. no way my zoom is going to give corners as good as this. I am not thinking of the way they look in the example, but once I would be ready with some post processing.
    even if I print 60x90 (cm), the biggest I do (apart form stitched panoramas), I can sometimes see things in my image I am not pleased with, mostly digital artifacts, if I get to close to the print), but soft corners are almost never a problem. what am I missing here?

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    You're missing nothing. My above statement is a generalization regarding M-mount lenses. It is probably safe to say that the WATE is the best-performing M-mount WA-lens for use on the A7/A7R by a considerable margin, particularly regarding corner smearing, vignetting and color casts. As such, it is an exception to the rule. The reason for this is it's pronounced retro-focal, tele-centric design.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Michael Reichmann on a7r and Leica M lenses at LuLa.

    A7R_M_Lens_Report

    Graham
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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Michael Reichmann on a7r and Leica M lenses at LuLa.

    A7R_M_Lens_Report

    Graham

    Many thanks. Tim Ashley has already elaborated extensively on the flat field correction technique and use with the A7R.

    To try that I didn't use a piece of plastic to get the correction image but simply took an out of focus image of my white computer screen with the same aperture. Well, when I used that in the flat field approach, I got a very encouraging result. I wonder whether other folks have tried this and whether this gives an acceptable improvement or not.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?


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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by neil View Post
    These images are taken using the Voltlander adapter.

    a7r-LeicaWATE

    Neil
    While I think it is fine for someone to say that this level of detail isn't sufficient for their needs, I don't see anything in this image to suggest that any part of the kit used to take it is defective.


    a7rwate16f4-analysis with 1:1 size here.

    At 20mm from axis, contrast for 10 lp/mm is quickly approaching 60%. Compare the blurring around the roofline pointing toward the top left corner to the MTF curve and my theoretical mockup--it looks about right.

    Compare that to the sunlit band on the balcony wall near 15mm. The MTF says we should expect much higher, though still imperfect contrast, which is what we see.

    Also, the amount of chromatic aberration closely matches the amount of divergence between the sagittal and tangential values.

    Simply put, the inflection point on these MTF curves around 17mm is quite real: the majority of the image is superb and the corners significantly weaken.

    In all--I don't think the adapter can be blamed but rather the exacting nature of the A7R.

    On a personal note, I'm going to take a moment to celebrate the many and unnamed geniuses who made such details visible in the extreme corners of a 135-format photo taken with a 16mm f/4 lens. Isn't that extraordinary?

    Cheers,
    Jon
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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonPB View Post

    On a personal note, I'm going to take a moment to celebrate the many and unnamed geniuses who made such details visible in the extreme corners of a 135-format photo taken with a 16mm f/4 lens. Isn't that extraordinary?
    I am grateful to all the brick wall shots taken on film as well.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    I used a Voigt adapter with a WATE lens and was overall impressed. I did a number of direct comparisons with a Zeiss 18mm/3.5 on a Nikon mount using a metabones adapter. In general, the image quality was very similar-- contrast, sharpness etc. Both had issues with vignetting that has been discussed. The one big difference was the fringing which was very apparent on the zeiss lens and much less noticeable on the leica.

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    Re: Voigtlander Adapter with WATE on A7?

    For some inside diameter of adapter measurements please see here.

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/494...tml#post555015

    Posts #86 and #88

    Thanks.
    With best regards, K-H.

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