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Thread: Shutter Vibration

  1. #51
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Michael Reichmann's comment regarding a7r "shutter vibration". (Sony A7r Report)

    "I suppose that my response to this is simply..."So what else is new?"

    All camera are subject to mirror shock (assuming they have a mirror), shutter shock, and release shock. Tripods that resonate, ball heads that are not toght enough, mounting plates with slop, etc. We've been living with and debating the issues for decades.

    The A7r has shutter shock at some shutter speeds with some lenses in some situations. This can be said for virtually every camera ever made.

    Ever shooting with a long lens on a Mamiya 645? Ever shoot with ANY lens on a Pentax 67. These are simply things we learn to live with and accomodate.

    To read that people are considering not getting an A7r because of shutter shock just blows my mind.

    In my annoyance at this new form of pixel peeping all I can say is..."On your way to getting a life, try and also get out and do some photography. Stop worrying about minutia". Cheech.

    Michael"

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

    Graham
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Michael Reichmann's comment regarding a7r "shutter vibration". (Sony A7r Report)

    "I suppose that my response to this is simply..."So what else is new?"

    All camera are subject to mirror shock (assuming they have a mirror), shutter shock, and release shock. Tripods that resonate, ball heads that are not toght enough, mounting plates with slop, etc. We've been living with and debating the issues for decades.

    The A7r has shutter shock at some shutter speeds with some lenses in some situations. This can be said for virtually every camera ever made.

    Ever shooting with a long lens on a Mamiya 645? Ever shoot with ANY lens on a Pentax 67. These are simply things we learn to live with and accomodate.

    To read that people are considering not getting an A7r because of shutter shock just blows my mind.

    In my annoyance at this new form of pixel peeping all I can say is..."On your way to getting a life, try and also get out and do some photography. Stop worrying about minutia". Cheech.

    Michael"

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

    Graham

    I find that very sensible! Kudos to MR!
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I would hold against that that testing your gear first so you know what works and what doesn't is certainly worth while and serves to prevent disappointment (and perhaps wasted money/loss of income) when in the field.

    I would like to add that inferring what might be the right approach for you from other people's test results is fraught with peril, because each component of the support setup as well as the technique used have a major influence on the outcome. Everyone interested in this matter should do their own testing, and I think this is a good place to share results. Those who are not can simply ignore this subject.

    Finally, I'd like to add my subjective impression that the A7R's shutter vibration at certain shutter speeds may very well have similar consequences as the mirror shock of some DSLRs (!). I'm planning to do a test to see if this is really the case.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Guess I just don't get quoted anymore. Lol

    My response

    Well its not uncommon to see vibration errors with Focal plane shutters. I read the reviews and this really is a fairly common issue. Case in point, I did this test with a Phase One DF body and a Phase One 150 D and Phase One 300mm 4.5. Obviously locked down like a elephant sitting on it and mirror up and 3 second delays with several subjects and the bottom line anything faster than 1/30 or slower than than 1/8 is not any visible vibration issues but at 1/20 and 1/15th being the worst it is clear as day there is a double image vibration issue. I have yet to do this test on a Nikon and not knowing the root cause of it but I do have a good guess as there is either a FP lag in the timing or some type of bounce in the shutter but it is there for sure and anyone trying this will most likely see it as well. I posted this test awhile back on GetDPI but heck if I can find it now. Personally I think its a common issue with focal plane shutters. I also agree there is a ton of whining on it and thats fine but Im also surprised that some folks don't know of this issue to start with and FP shutters.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    Michael Reichmann's comment regarding a7r "shutter vibration".

    "I suppose that my response to this is simply..."So what else is new?"
    I think my answer to that would be "mirrorless cameras with quiet shutters" - which is something the A7r could have been. I was hoping to get over the mirror slap and clattering shutter effects of dSLR cameras (let alone MF)

    Let's face it - when you press the shutter on the A7r you can feel it - there is an obvious vibration. This is not true of lots of other modern cameras.

    I'm not saying that the shutter vibration on the A7r is a show stopper (I simply don't know).

    What I'm saying is that there is a continuum here from something like the Ricoh GR upwards , and if we are having to compare the A7r with MF with very large shutters to find something equivalent, then this really isn't an optimum situation.

    I agree with Ron that it's important to understand your gear and be aware of it's limitations - but sometimes the limitations seem to me to make it not worth the candle. . . . . . and if you need to carry a 3kg tripod to make up for the fact that your 450 gm camera has a shutter that shakes it . . . . .

    Just this guy you know
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  6. #56
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Guess I just don't get quoted anymore. Lol

    My response

    Well its not uncommon to see vibration errors with Focal plane shutters. I read the reviews and this really is a fairly common issue. Case in point, I did this test with a Phase One DF body and a Phase One 150 D and Phase One 300mm 4.5. Obviously locked down like a elephant sitting on it and mirror up and 3 second delays with several subjects and the bottom line anything faster than 1/30 or slower than than 1/8 is not any visible vibration issues but at 1/20 and 1/15th being the worst it is clear as day there is a double image vibration issue. I have yet to do this test on a Nikon and not knowing the root cause of it but I do have a good guess as there is either a FP lag in the timing or some type of bounce in the shutter but it is there for sure and anyone trying this will most likely see it as well. I posted this test awhile back on GetDPI but heck if I can find it now. Personally I think its a common issue with focal plane shutters. I also agree there is a ton of whining on it and thats fine but Im also surprised that some folks don't know of this issue to start with and FP shutters.
    Ya know, Guy, it seems that most people agree with the "just go out and take pictures" philosophy that Michael espouses. Not all. In my view, the major problem with photography is that everyone just goes out and takes pictures. Never mind. I do find that if I replace Michael's word "Cheech" with the phrase "By crackey", it gets the flavor of his comment across better.

    Thanks to Michael and to you for pointing out that vibration is a major issue with most focal plane shutters. Those of us spoiled by tech cameras need to keep that in mind. Clearly, however, very few reviewers or early adopters were aware that the A7r exhibits shutter vibration at so many settings, and that it is so very sensitive to mounting variables. In a camera with 36MP and no mirror lockup, fp shutter vibration becomes less of a characteristic and more of a design flaw.

    Sony knew about this issue and released the camera assuming it would not reduce their market by much. They seem to have been right. Now Sony knows that some of us care. Might help them set priorities for the next iteration.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Well I don't disagree and it seems the main reason many are going for the Sony are to bolt other lenses on it with that alone as a additional factor your also adding adapters to the mix which creates a double mount. Too me that adds double trouble. Like the Phase its good to test these issues out and keep the results in your head when in the field to try and avoid certain shutter speeds. It's why I did the test in the first place was to know where the weak points are. Now will some of this issue go away when using Sony FE lenses by themselves. Its a test that needs to be done when they come out. I won't argue the design flaw either as I believe your correct in that comment. I have been watching this cam and have yet to pull the trigger on it as I have been reading things about it. Now do I think we are obsessing over it than yes I think to some degree we are. But that's also part of being a pixel peeper too. Bottom line for me is be aware of it and note your test results and if its not working than get rid of it or as always find the work arounds. One other note and my advice here is stay away from the cheap adapters as well. Since your dealing with a double mount setup you want the strongest adapter you can buy. Does not guarantee you won't get this issue popping up but it will lesson the issue at hand. Outside the FP issue itself now you have to be extra careful with these adapters. Might be worth noting as we read reports from folks which adapters are causing the least amount of issues. Also I do agree given Sony has Mirrorless why the choice of shutters and why its so loud, loud also means vibration too.
    One other note we need to be aware you are beta testers on a new system, we all been down this path with Leica and others and it's not a fun deal. My middle name is Guinea pig and it sure ain't fun sometimes. My observation is if you want to use Leica glass it seems to me the R glass is the easier path. With one lens out for Sony its a extremely poor release plan. Does Leica S come to mind. I'm reviewing it again next month but now its a system that has a ton more going for it. Hopefully Sony will get there and maybe the second version of this will be some lessons learned as well. I'm not going to say just go shoot the damn thing and forget about it, what I am saying is learn the workarounds first. I'm totally behind the folks that are testing and reporting the results, more data the better. But I should add some of this is common with FP shutters so we need to take account for that as well.BTW having the biggest tripod on the planet really does not help either its there in the first place anyway. It certainly helps identify it easier.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Last edited by cunim; 14th December 2013 at 08:42.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    The answer!!!!!

    N i n e - V o l t
    One of the most clever, well executed commercials I've ever seen! Priceless.

    Graham

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    +1 Simply briliant!

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I will quote you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Guess I just don't get quoted anymore. Lol

    My response

    Well its not uncommon to see vibration errors with Focal plane shutters. I read the reviews and this really is a fairly common issue. Case in point, I did this test with a Phase One DF body and a Phase One 150 D and Phase One 300mm 4.5. Obviously locked down like a elephant sitting on it and mirror up and 3 second delays with several subjects and the bottom line anything faster than 1/30 or slower than than 1/8 is not any visible vibration issues but at 1/20 and 1/15th being the worst it is clear as day there is a double image vibration issue. I have yet to do this test on a Nikon and not knowing the root cause of it but I do have a good guess as there is either a FP lag in the timing or some type of bounce in the shutter but it is there for sure and anyone trying this will most likely see it as well. I posted this test awhile back on GetDPI but heck if I can find it now. Personally I think its a common issue with focal plane shutters. I also agree there is a ton of whining on it and thats fine but Im also surprised that some folks don't know of this issue to start with and FP shutters.

  12. #62
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    LOL. I was half joking on that one.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I know but your presence and participation is highly appreciated, Guy.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    LOL Hey I just bought 2 chickens just in case i get hungry on a gig I have one to spare. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  15. #65
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    LOL Hey I just bought 2 chickens just in case i get hungry on a gig I have one to spare. ROTFLMAO
    Make sure you dissect those stabilizers out of their heads before you swallow them. Amazing stuff, that is!

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    After all the kafuffle re vibration, I thought I would summarize my feelings. YMMV

    The dual-exposure type of blurring is completely disabling. The good news is that it is avoidable. It results from resonance in very rigid and light mounting systems. For example, my Novoflex Basic Ball tabletop tripod is very subject to this type of problem. This beautifully made little item has solid steel legs. They ring when you tap them. The A7r taps them. In contrast my old and floppy Leica tabletop tripod (the kind with the legs that screw into each other) is non-resonant and actually works, kinda. Just don't touch it or even breathe on it. If your tripod vibrates with a sharp tap, the A7r is probably not a good tool.

    The other shutter-induced blur is the usual kind (Gaussian blur), leading to an expanded COC as opposed to multiple images. The specific speeds that lead to vibration vary with mounting system. Do not expect to achieve 36MP resolution when this blur is present. For most types of shooting, this is not a major factor. When it matters, avoid shooting between 1/fl - 2/fl and about 0.5 sec. I suspect that the A7r has more metal in it than the A7 because Sony is trying to tame vibration.

    Re tripods, I should correct my earlier statement "The more massive the better". In fact, I have not seen a great deal of difference between a lightweight Induro with a Markins ball head, a 5 series Gitzo with a Cube, and a Foba studio stand with a Sinar head. As long as you are not exciting resonances, the blur is about the same.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    LOL Hey I just bought 2 chickens just in case i get hungry on a gig I have one to spare. ROTFLMAO
    I have a chicken in the freezer !
    Would that work ????

    Very nice commercial !

    C U
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post

    Re tripods, I should correct my earlier statement "The more massive the better". In fact, I have not seen a great deal of difference between a lightweight Induro with a Markins ball head, a 5 series Gitzo with a Cube, and a Foba studio stand with a Sinar head. As long as you are not exciting resonances, the blur is about the same.
    Agreed...... I notice no difference between my very light weight Gitzo Traveler and My Series 3 Gitzo and Z1 head. If the camera is in vertical position it is much worse but no matter both orientations are affected. I'm sure by now that Sony is aware of the chatter and hopefully they can come up with some kind of firmware fix.

    Victor

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Guess I just don't get quoted anymore. Lol

    My response

    Personally I think its a common issue with focal plane shutters. I also agree there is a ton of whining on it and thats fine but Im also surprised that some folks don't know of this issue to start with and FP shutters.
    Well, Guy, its not common with the D800e. There are no visible manifestations that I can see at 100% pixels with longer lenses ( 85mm and up ) - None! I also don't consider the inability to use longer lenses at any shutter speed between 1s and 1/250 with the camera in a vertical position on a tripod whining..... I call it a design flaw..... and Sony should fix it!

    Victor
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I just bought one so ill test it as well. I wonder if they can do this through a firmware fix.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I just bought one so ill test it as well. I wonder if they can do this through a firmware fix.
    The more I think about this I just don't know how they can fix this shutter by firmware. Anyway..... you will see that this is not a little issue and since you use longer lenses this could be a big deal for you. With the camera in the vertical position on ANY tripod you will find that at 90mm and up that all shutter speeds between 1s and 1/250 are unusable with the biggest offenders between 1/20 to 1/160. To be really clean you must use 1s or longer or 1/250 or shorter. My workaround, for now, is a 6 stop ND and when I hit 1/60 at ISO 100 I can either go up to ISO 800 or put on the ND and drop down to 1s....... or just shoot longer lenses on my D800e.

    The camera itself is very sexy and you will love many things about it - especially the focusing features. Good luck....

    Victor

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I think there is at least potential for improvement by firmware changes. Since the A7R is a live view camera by design, and because it does not feature an electronic first curtain shutter, the shutter sequence is the following:

    1.) the shutter closes
    2.) the first shutter curtain exposes the sensor, beginning the exposure
    3.) the second shutter curtain obscures the sensor, ending the exposure
    4.) the shutter opens again to expose the sensor, allowing live view

    4 is irrelevant to this discussion, since it happens after the exposure is complete. However, something *can* be done about 1, at least for tripod shooters:

    I think this curtain should close immediately when pressing the shutter, even if you're using the self-timer. I'm quite sure that such a feature combined with a 10s self-timer setting would help things quite a bit. And while we're at it, Sony, please add 3,4 and 5 second self-timer settings. Thanks much!
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Well, there is one thing that could be done by firmware: when using the 2s delay when pressing the shutter the shutter could close. Then wait 2 seconds, take picture. So something like mirror lockup in "good old time"...
    Andreas

    (Ron was faster with similar idea :-) )
    Last edited by Schmiddi; 16th December 2013 at 10:49. Reason: To long typeing...
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Kind of what I was thinking. There has to be a way to solve this. Not to question anyone but is there something in the menu settings that folks are overlooking. I can't comment since I have not seen anything yet. I just played with a A7 in the store but was more looking at focus peaking and such. Okay that stuff is cool as heck. Loved it and a person that hated EVF stuff I walked away pretty impressed.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  25. #75
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    No, Guy, unfortunately there isn't. The types of settings available in the menu system demonstrate that Sony wasn't quite thinking of the needs of users like us. But we have to tell them that we want their camera to succeed for the type of shooting we do. Please post all your niggles in the thread linked to below, and please also 'like' the ones posted that you agree with:

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/495...rovements.html

    Edit: perhaps the above thread should be sticky, so Sony can easily find it if they roam in this corner of the 'net...

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I will do Ron and somehow we have to get the word to Sony. Hell this is a freaking computer and they should be able to put a damn delay in it or something that can solve this.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  27. #77
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    The only thing that can truly solve it is an electronic first curtain, but this appears impossible due to characteristics inherent in the current Sony 36MP sensor design (reset too slow or something of that nature).

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Well, I started a case with Sony and am supposed to hear from higher-ups within 24 hrs. I like the idea of the shutter closing when using 2/10 second delay. That would take one of the vibrations out of the equation and maybe it would be enough. Sony should be able to do this.

    Victor

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    or a special 5 second setting just for this.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  30. #80
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Lloyd Chambers has added results from the A7 to his A7R APO-Telyt-R 4/280 shutter vibration test. The gist: fully usable images from 1/800s all the way down to 1/30s with the A7. With the A7R, 1/160s to 1/30s were unusable.

    diglloyd blog - Sony A7R vs A7: Shutter Vibration at 280mm
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    There must be something wrong with his tripod and such. I bet that the results will be even better (even lower shutter speeds- all leaves will freeze to pose, charts will stay put) on the M10.

  32. #82
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    If you're referring to the M240, his findings were very similar to those with the A7R as far as Leica-R telephoto lenses are concerned. The tripod used is likely an RRS TVC-34 with an Arca Cube.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    If you're referring to the M240, his findings were very similar to those with the A7R as far as Leica-R telephoto lenses are concerned. The tripod used is likely an RRS TVC-34 with an Arca Cube.
    I said that with tongue in cheek.

    If this (re: M) is true then he has some serious problems with his gear or ascertaining something objectively. I have come across many many examples to be convinced that he is either not thorough or very biased. Either way, bad news if anyone follows this stuff verbatim.

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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Well, you certainly seem to have a very strong bias against him, dear Vivek. If you're not a subscriber, you're *really* not qualified to judge.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Just step back and think about it for a second, Ron.

    A7R clack-clack- no dispute.

    A7 clack.

    M (240) faint snick- barely audible and built solidly.

    The title of this thread is "Shutter Vibration".

    Makes sense?
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  36. #86
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    No, not really. Objective analysis makes sense, but once again, let's leave it at that…

    Edit: as a good friend of mine who lives not far from you likes to say: assumption is the mother of all f***-ups. Fundamentally true...
    Last edited by Ron Pfister; 16th December 2013 at 15:44.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I have heard from Sony and they want sample files to send to engineering. This is at least a step forward.

    Victor
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I have heard from Sony and they want sample files to send to engineering. This is at least a step forward.
    Fantastic! Thanks for making the effort!

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I have heard from Sony and they want sample files to send to engineering. This is at least a step forward.

    Victor
    Good news Victor load them up.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Good news Victor load them up.
    You might also suggest that the Sony engineers buy a subscription to Lloyd Chambers review site. It's only a guess, and a cynical one at that, but I suspect that the Sony engineers don't do the kind of field testing that Chambers does.
    hcubell
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    You might also suggest that the Sony engineers buy a subscription to Lloyd Chambers review site. It's only a guess, and a cynical one at that, but I suspect that the Sony engineers don't do the kind of field testing that Chambers does.
    I doubt that Sony engineers will engage in testing every lens in every mount. The expectations from many in the various forums seems to be that this $2000 Sony camera should be able to replace DSLRs, the very-expensive M240, even more expensive MF kit and then some.

    I expect Sony would much prefer to see their native lens line succeed. So far, it seems the 35 and 55 are as good as it gets in the 35mm format.

    And if they were to stumble across Lloyd Chamber's site they would feel very pleased with themselves to read comments like this:

    "Now published in my review of the Sony FE 35mm f/2.8 Sonnar is a new Sony A7R /2.8 - /4 - /5.6 aperture series (Santa Claus Lights), which is mighty impressive. As in state of the art best available with any camera or lens at 35mm.

    Which makes the Sony 35mm f/2.8 Sonnar ZA lens a steal at about $798.

    Mated to the about $2298 Sony A7R, you get world-class rig for $2000 less than the cost of a Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux lens alone, and with superior results in several ways."

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    You might also suggest that the Sony engineers buy a subscription to Lloyd Chambers review site. It's only a guess, and a cynical one at that, but I suspect that the Sony engineers don't do the kind of field testing that Chambers does.
    That is a load of BS!

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I doubt that Sony engineers will engage in testing every lens in every mount. The expectations from many in the various forums seems to be that this $2000 Sony camera should be able to replace DSLRs, the very-expensive M240, even more expensive MF kit and then some.

    I expect Sony would much prefer to see their native lens line succeed. So far, it seems the 35 and 55 are as good as it gets in the 35mm format.

    And if they were to stumble across Lloyd Chamber's site they would feel very pleased with themselves to read comments like this:

    "Now published in my review of the Sony FE 35mm f/2.8 Sonnar is a new Sony A7R /2.8 - /4 - /5.6 aperture series (Santa Claus Lights), which is mighty impressive. As in state of the art best available with any camera or lens at 35mm.

    Which makes the Sony 35mm f/2.8 Sonnar ZA lens a steal at about $798.

    Mated to the about $2298 Sony A7R, you get world-class rig for $2000 less than the cost of a Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux lens alone, and with superior results in several ways."
    You assumed, inaccurately, that I was pointing to the tests on Lloyd Chambers' site assessing the performance of the A7R with Leica M lenses. Not so. I should have been clearer. I was referring to the tests on the effects of shutter vibration with longer lenses. Yes, those tests were done with non-native FE lenses, but the effects should still be demonstrable with any long lens. The issue is whether a particular range of shutter speeds degrades sharpness compared to faster shutter speeds. You aren't testing absolute performance of the lens, just relative performance where only the shutter speed changes. There are some other anomalies that Chambers picked up with the 35mm FE lens that may be fixable in firmware or software.
    I completely agree with you that it is not Sony's job to test the A7R with third party lenses. No other camera manufacturer's camera is judged on the basis of how it does with someone else's lenses. Why should the A7R? The A7R should be judged on the basis of how it does with the FE lenses compared to the Leica M with its lenses and the Nikon D800 with the best of the lenses available for it. It would be a big plus if the A7R also offers fantastic performance with a bunch of third party lenses with assorted and sundry adaptors, but that should not define the camera.
    hcubell
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I'll wait till Sony addresses this issue to work as good as in my Canon 6D and till Metabones releases an adapter with a rotating collar.
    My money is waiting Sony and Metabones! Are you listening?
    Eduardo

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    The issue is whether a particular range of shutter speeds degrades sharpness compared to faster shutter speeds. You aren't testing absolute performance of the lens, just relative performance where only the shutter speed changes.
    Yes.... This has nothing to do with the type of lens only the focal length. This is a shutter vibration issue that manifests itself at certain shutter speeds. The vibration disappears with exposures 1s and longer and 1/250 and shorter at least with my 90mm. Much longer lenses may require shorter exposures.

    Victor

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Shooting handheld, I don't have experience of shutter vibration. (must admit I have relatively steady hands, despite age, lol)
    This example is 1/20 iso 2000 summicron m 50 f2, see movement on chin as he was probably speaking


    _DSC0367 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    this one 1/50 with elmarit m 90


    _DSC0434 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    both are crops, and sharpening has been added by flickr without request....

    I tried to duplicate the vibration issue with my old but sturdy Fatif tripod, with the 90, but I have been unsuccessful to obtain it, so i think that probably the problem is related to the camera-tripod combination.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    Shooting handheld, I don't have experience of shutter vibration. (must admit I have relatively steady hands, despite age, lol)
    This example is 1/20 iso 2000 summicron m 50 f2, see movement on chin as he was probably speaking


    this one 1/50 with elmarit m 90



    both are crops, and sharpening has been added by flickr without request....

    I tried to duplicate the vibration issue with my old but sturdy Fatif tripod, with the 90, but I have been unsuccessful to obtain it, so i think that probably the problem is related to the camera-tripod combination.
    Mr. Lovisolo, You and I need a subscription. That is the problem.

  48. #98
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    It is very clear that the whole system influences the outcome. Very rigid and at the same time light weight is probably the worst combination.

    Edit: as stated here http://www.getdpi.com/forum/555787-post52.html, I believe hand-holding goes a long way towards eliminating the problem. But this is simply not a solution for focal lengths of 135mm or longer or low-light situations, unless you don't care about reducing DR and general IQ by using very high ISO settings.
    Last edited by Ron Pfister; 18th December 2013 at 06:36.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Yes...... I found out about the shutter shake with the DF very quickly. Couldn't use my 150 lens at all in the danger shutter speed zones and sent it back to Dave at CI. I don't use the DF at all... it sits on a shelf. I can use my Alpa on a flimsy Gitzo Traveler tripod and get tac sharp images at any shutter speed and/or focal length. There is nothing like a leaf shutter.

    Victor
    You can't compare a Compur or Copal shutter with any reflex or focal plane shutter camera. There is nothing better than a leaf shutter/view camera for slow shutter speeds. Never ever had a vibration problem with a view camera.

  50. #100
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Yes leaf shutters this issue is just not relevant .The biggest issue with leaf shutters maybe a timing issue when its cold as they can slow down. But that would just be a exposure issue and a easy correction is right there to adjust.

    What makes the tech cams such a nice solution is barely any lens distortion, amazing image quality and the ability for movements. Besides you won't find a higher resolving lens anywhere in photography. Cost will kill ya but for some folks it's what they need and buy. I love tech cams .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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