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Thread: Shutter Vibration

  1. #101
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Test camera vibration files are off to Sony. Camera in vertical position, 90mm Leica, 10s delay. Big difference between the worst and best files. At least they are looking into this.

    Victor
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Just to clarify, the Gaussian blur (shutter vibration) that the A7r exhibits is quite subtle. There is a gross blur as well, that happens if you use a rigid, light and resonant support system but that is not really the camera's fault. Just don't mount that way. In contrast, the Gaussian blur is part of the camera package and is unavoidable without an unusual amount of care.

    Vibration is of concern to some because this is a 36 MP camera. People that care about such high pixel density tend to peep. Sadly, in the vibration range the peepers find this Gaussian blur so we squawk. Portraits and street shots won't show it. It will even soften up portraits a bit, which might be nice. Tightly focused heron irises, now those guys might care. Hmmm. Peep, squawk, heron.. too many bird references.

    It doesn't matter whether you hand hold or cement the camera to a concrete block. It is not clamps or how steady your hands are. It is a product of a strong shutter in a low mass body with minimal internal damping. Tap the front shell of your A7r. It will ring.

    Unlike other high density FF cameras, this one has no mechanism (such as mirror lockup or leaf shutter) to allow you to avoid vibration so as to get that last bit of performance. As Guy points out, you need to use technique to get around the vibration and, with this camera, you need to use a higher level of technique than with a D800. Instead of locking up the mirror for critical shots, stay out of the sensitive range. Or don't if the subtle blur does not matter to you.

    I think this is easily fixed if Sony makes it a priority. However, it will need a new internal design. Hey - imagine these electronics in a Leica body! Lust.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Why would shutter vibration lead to Gaussian blur? I would expect the blur to be parallel to the shutter motion, not nicely anisotropic Gaussian.

    --Matt

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Why would shutter vibration lead to Gaussian blur? I would expect the blur to be parallel to the shutter motion, not nicely anisotropic Gaussian.

    --Matt
    You'd think, and there are images which clearly show what you suggest - see post #36 in this thread. However, when I look at point sources with a nonresonant mounting system I see a circle of blur. Not sure if it is actually Gaussian, just trying to get across the falloff around a center.

    I think the entire CCD package is resonating in relation to the shell. The plane of resonance appears to decouple - at least partly - from its source. Or I could be wrong. I have no testing equipment here. It's great that Sony is now looking into to it (see above posts).

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Just to clarify, the Gaussian blur (shutter vibration) that the A7r exhibits is quite subtle. There is a gross blur as well, that happens if you use a rigid, light and resonant support system but that is not really the camera's fault. Just don't mount that way.
    Oddly enough I have Gitzo series 1 tripods and series 3 tripods. Arca Z1 head, and light weight Acra heads. The heavier tripod setup did not result in lesser blur manifestations - or if less very difficult to see with results from a 90mm lens. Longer lenses may produce different results.

    I also think that if the first curtain could close at the start of a self timer that this issue could be greatly improved upon.

    Victor

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Test camera vibration files are off to Sony. Camera in vertical position, 90mm Leica, 10s delay. Big difference between the worst and best files. At least they are looking into this.

    Victor
    Victor, could you post an image of your tripod?
    With this setup

    _DSC3260 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    I can't get motion blur at any shutter speed, no trace even with finest details
    of test target.(elmarit m 90)

    Casual subject at 1/25

    _DSC0435 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    test target at 1/30 and 100% crop


    _DSC0436 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    Thanks.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    You'd think, and there are images which clearly show what you suggest - see post #36 in this thread. However, when I look at point sources with a nonresonant mounting system I see a circle of blur. Not sure if it is actually Gaussian, just trying to get across the falloff around a center.

    I think the entire CCD package is resonating in relation to the shell. The plane of resonance appears to decouple - at least partly - from its source. Or I could be wrong. I have no testing equipment here. It's great that Sony is now looking into to it (see above posts).

    I might call it more of a mirrored ghost in look over a gaussian blur. Either way its there
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Sergio, I would guess that the massive, over-sized rubberized/cork-covered mounting plate of your setup does the trick here. And I would add that such a support setup is definitely not what I'd carry into the field along with the A7R…

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Mr. Lovisolo, You and I need a subscription. That is the problem.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Holy cow, Sergio - how much does all of that stuff weigh? The next step would be to weld that little puppy to an I-Beam. My series 3 and Arca Z1 setup is not enough to calm down the vibration from this little camera. If I have to get beyond that then something surely is amiss.

    Victor

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    Victor, could you post an image of your tripod?
    With this setup

    _DSC3260 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    I can't get motion blur at any shutter speed, no trace even with finest details
    of test target.(elmarit m 90)

    Casual subject at 1/25

    _DSC0435 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    test target at 1/30 and 100% crop


    _DSC0436 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    Thanks.
    Sergio, my mistake lay in not posting images earlier. Here are two crops. They are a peeper's delight at about 4:1 so the issue becomes fairly obvious. One is at 1/60 and the other at 0.5. I will leave it to you to judge which is which. I have some others using flash in which the difference is clearer.

    The point is this camera can deliver wonderful resolution but only under the right conditions. We are deluding ourselves if we think we can get around that.

    Conditions: Foba Asaba studio stand with Sinar head, AS clamp on stand and AS plate tight on camera. A7r, iso 200, Apo Summicron M 90 asph. No sharpening applied.

    As you can see, you need to look carefully. I would be very interested to see your resolution chart snapped at 1/60 vs 0.5, with a 100% crop.

    The best way to lay all this to rest is to derive point-spread functions. I am sure someone here could do that if they wanted to. However, it is not necessary to get technical to decide whether this level of blur matters to you.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    However, it is not necessary to get technical to decide whether this level of blur matters to you.
    Thanks for posting these, cunim! It seems to me that this level of blur may very well negate the advantage of 36MP over 24MP.

    Edit: the same can probably be said about lens quality (i.e. the blurred image may as well have been taken with a far less expensive lens)
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Sergio, my mistake lay in not posting images earlier. Here are two crops. They are a peeper's delight at about 4:1 so the issue becomes fairly obvious. One is at 1/60 and the other at 0.5. I will leave it to you to judge which is which. I have some others using flash in which the difference is clearer.

    The point is this camera can deliver wonderful resolution but only under the right conditions. We are deluding ourselves if we think we can get around that.

    Conditions: Foba Asaba studio stand with Sinar head, AS clamp on stand and AS plate tight on camera. A7r, iso 200, Apo Summicron M 90 asph. No sharpening applied.

    As you can see, you need to look carefully. I would be very interested to see your resolution chart snapped at 1/60 vs 0.5, with a 100% crop.

    The best way to lay all this to rest is to derive point-spread functions. I am sure someone here could do that if they wanted to. However, it is not necessary to get technical to decide whether this level of blur matters to you.

    How do you manage the +/- 3 stops between the two pictures ?

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Thanks for posting these, cunim! It seems to me that this level of blur may very well negate the advantage of 36MP over 24MP.

    Edit: the same can probably be said about lens quality (i.e. the blurred image may as well have been taken with a far less expensive lens)
    Hi Ron
    This is the way I'm thinking as well. Together with the reduced shutter lag there seems to be quite a lot going for the A7.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Holy cow, Sergio - how much does all of that stuff weigh? The next step would be to weld that little puppy to an I-Beam. My series 3 and Arca Z1 setup is not enough to calm down the vibration from this little camera. If I have to get beyond that then something surely is amiss.

    Victor
    One of the tripods I have is a Sachtler DA-75 (aluminum) with a Manfrotto fluid head. There is a heavier fluid head as well but that weighs more than this combo. There are carbon fiber versions of the DL-75 which are a lot lighter.

    Still the DA-75 + head is not that heavy (excluding the spreader).

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Daure View Post
    How do you manage the +/- 3 stops between the two pictures ?
    Woops, forgot to specify that. Shots at f3.5 or f4, can't remember. Set a Profoto D4 and soft box to get the 1/60 to work at iso 200. Then just turned down the light for the longer exposures.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Ron
    This is the way I'm thinking as well. Together with the reduced shutter lag there seems to be quite a lot going for the A7.
    Jono, I agree and I don't. Let's say for now, I'm opting to disagree. I *want* the A7R to deliver as much as my lenses (or its sensor) are capable of, and I'm willing to walk the extra mile to get there. This was the primary reason why I chose this model over the A7. But it may turn out that this goal is not achievable very often in reality. Further use will deliver the answer to this question. For now, I remain positive. I think I can work around the faster than 1/3f or slower than 2s rule when it matters...

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Ron, I have confidence you'll be able to work around this - for now. I'm going to shoot in manual mode with the shutter set at 1/250 and Auto ISO from 100 to 1600. This is strictly for tripod use as I can't imagine hand holding a 90mm setup. A half press of the shutter button shows the ISO in the lower right hand corner - very handy. If I have to I can always attach a 6 stop ND and shoot at 1s or longer with perfect results for the stuff I shoot.

    Victor
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I agree that vibration is evidently a problem under certain circumstances (I have yet to get the adaptor that will let me find out for myself), but I don't think its a show stopper for most users.

    • The A7R is still fine hand held, but with the same caveats that apply to any 36MP sensor i.e. keep the speed up.
    • It is fine with the shorter focal lengths most people will use in day to day use.
    • It is unlikely to be used for wildlife/birding photography, where a good DSLR remains a far better solution (AF, frame rate etc). It was never designed for this application, I am sure.
    • For travel and landscape use, it seems the vibration issue will occur only with long lenses, at certain speeds. I notice there was 400% crops being used to show the issue, but IMO, if its not visible at 100% its not ever going to be visible in print in any way that matters. I think for most people, the concern is that it will show up in the 70-200 range, which many use a lot... and therefore the forthcoming 70-200 F4 lens! Will the image stabilisation of that lens help? Personally, I'm not sure that I will ever own or bother to carry around such a lens with this camera. A superwide, the 24-70 Zeiss and the 35 and 55 will be plenty for me.


    For those who are using long lenses, what is the application and is this a major part of your work? I ask this not to dismiss your application, but because I recognise that my needs are not necessarily yours and its not easy to imagine what other people get up to with their cameras!!!

    How many of you were/are expecting to buy the 70-200 F4 G?

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Myself I have a Zeiss 135 in a Nikon mount. I own that lens and on my D800 if I need a little reach for normal work than I can go into crop mode on the d800. I think I could do the same with the Sony. I'll try that today as all my parts will be here today. As far as the 70-200 when I need that I usually rent it twice a year for big runway shows. Even if I switched to Sony I would do exactly the same. But there is a chance if I kept the Sony as my main unit than maybe I would buy it. Also if I decided Sony was my main squeeze than I would add the 7 only version as well for more speed type work. But I love the 135 focal length and I would keep my Zeiss Nikon mount regardless with the adapter, same for my Leica 19r in Nikon mount I would keep as well but also add in Nikon mount the Zeiss 25 F2. So I would have 3 lenses in Nikon mount. Than sell my Sigma 35 1.4 get the Sony 35Fe and 55fe. That would round me out very well. I would also buy the 28-70 zoom with the 7 purchase and replace that later with the 24-70. The real question for me is do I switch entirely. That is a very hard call right now, although I'm freaking nuts and could pull the trigger on a whim as obviously I already thought this all through.LOL I just have to be patient for the moment and see what I am getting but bottom line I was never completely thrilled with Nikon D800 . I need the Mpx no doubt for my high end work which the 7r would cover and the 7 for PR would be maybe better than the D7100 which I thought about getting for the crop factor for one and also faster shooting in AF mode. The 7 would have to be really good at follow focus though. It's for runway with 15k in images in 3 days. That's a load of shooting.

    My underlining issue or dissatisfaction is I came from a phase one IQ 160 with tech cam that I DID NOT want to sell but was forced to due to my wife's health which we are still battling even this week with radiation. My issue is I'm still looking for the look of that back in 35mm land the D800e is nice but its work to get close plus it just don't have the look. I'm still searching for that. The nice thing it gets the job done well for clients but Guy is not thrilled with it. At this point in my career I want a thrill. LOL

  21. #121
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    For those who are using long lenses, what is the application and is this a major part of your work? I ask this not to dismiss your application, but because I recognise that my needs are not necessarily yours and its not easy to imagine what other people get up to with their cameras!!!
    For my use (primarily landscape and nature subjects), I regularly use lenses in the range between 19 and 180mm, rarely 280mm. Lenses in the range 25-85mm see the most use, but the range from 135 to 280mm comes in really handy when I want a detail shot but can't get close enough to the subject, which happens fairly often.

    I agree that a DSLR is the tool of choice for most wildlife subjects, although I use manual focus there, too. But IS is essential at these focal lengths (up to 700mm in my case).

    To make a camera like the A7R truly universally usable for my purposes, built-in IS would be a god send.

    How many of you were/are expecting to buy the 70-200 F4 G?
    Not likely. If need be, I can always use my Canon 70-200 with a Metabones adapter.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I also have a Canon 70-200 (the F4 L without stabilisation) and could use this on the A7R (tho I am not sure I ever will), but I am wondering if the forthcoming 70-200 F4 G with stabilisation will have the vibration issues or whether the stabilisation unit will iron it out.

    The more I think about it, the more a double kit of A7R and A7 makes sense, as the cameras clearly have different strengths. ... It would also be perfect for being able to shoot with someone else on one set of lenses, but a lot less weight than a similarly specced DSLR outfit.

    Guy, do you think the AF on the A7 will be good enough for runway work? I am not sure what the D800 is like as I have never used one, but the 5D III inspires such confidence in this area that I'd be loathe to leave it at home and take the A7/R, personally. When I used a demo A7, it felt nowhere near as responsive as the 5D III.

    I guess we'll have to do our own tests. I did with the 24 TS-E to see which apertures to use for full shift... which apertures looked like what for stitched panos. A bit of testing is normal. Lets just remember what working with a new film or developer, or paper, or enlarger lens, or even inkjet paper is like!

    FWIW, having just received my A7R, its quite a bit louder/more noticeable than the regular A7 IMO. Can't say I'm worried about it, because I don't really see either as particularly good street cameras - certainly not for quick or discreet use. I do not see this camera and the M/M9/MM as competing with each other really.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Re: Shutter Vibration
    I also have a Canon 70-200 (the F4 L without stabilisation) and could use this on the A7R (tho I am not sure I ever will), but I am wondering if the forthcoming 70-200 F4 G with stabilisation will have the vibration issues or whether the stabilisation unit will iron it out.

    The more I think about it, the more a double kit of A7R and A7 makes sense, as the cameras clearly have different strengths. ... It would also be perfect for being able to shoot with someone else on one set of lenses, but a lot less weight than a similarly specced DSLR outfit.

    Guy, do you think the AF on the A7 will be good enough for runway work?


    Im not sure how fast these are and that is a big worry. The D800 AF focus follow is okay and it does a decent job with runway but far from perfect. I also don't machine gun either so that helps its about 5 shots in a 75 foot walk otherwise i would be uploading 30k images to smugmug. That is far too much to deal with 15k is tough enough. So shooting speed not the biggest deal but follow focus is because without it and release than press in single focus mode will just wear me out.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Hmm Im just not seeing it. Just playing with my Zeiss 135 F2 with a Novaflex adapter for a G mount . Im looking at the LCD a max magnify and I am just not seeing it at any speed. I will double check for sure on computer.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Wow that was interesting. Went in the garage with door open shot some wine box with type. I first shot outside and nothing than turned to the wine box first run nothing, second run from 1/5 to 1/60 sure enough. Went and refocused ran it exactly again and zilch. Conclusion double check your tests and it just might be a floating problem that comes and goes. Not sure but I'm over it already and moving on. Im not worrying about this one. I think it has to do with several factors camera shake is one of them. We need a 4 second delay bottom line, 2 seconds is not enough. The shutter just maybe breaking in as well sounds weird but lets put some more time on it.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Okay this thing likes batteries. I have 4 and 6 is in the cards. LOL

    Im using the vertical grip and its okay on a tripod but I have a small foot on it and may go to the bigger one as i am getting a little shake when touching it. Sometimes small is bad
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I did a little Seismometer study on the A7R shutter vibration and compared it to D3 and NEX-7.

    It's helpful to see the shutter vibration in graphic form, 3 axes are graphed.

    Posted here:

    http://beforethecoffee.com/sony-a7r-...nd-sony-nex-7/
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by ferrellmc View Post
    I did a little Seismometer study on the A7R shutter vibration and compared it to D3 and NEX-7.

    It's helpful to see the shutter vibration in graphic form, 3 axes are graphed.

    Posted here:

    Sony A7R vibration comparison with Nikon D3 and Sony NEX-7 Before The Coffee
    Hi Ferrell,

    love your article and how you tested, very interesting !
    As for mass: you could try testing the A7R w/ and w/o fully loaded battery grip (adds approx. 340gr).

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by ferrellmc View Post
    I did a little Seismometer study on the A7R shutter vibration and compared it to D3 and NEX-7.

    It's helpful to see the shutter vibration in graphic form, 3 axes are graphed.

    Posted here:

    Sony A7R vibration comparison with Nikon D3 and Sony NEX-7 Before The Coffee
    Many thanks for doing these tests, Ferrell - brilliant! Hope you can find someone with an A7 to run the same tests with. I wonder to what extent the mass of the iPhone influenced the results. It's probably close to 25% of the mass of the A7R...
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    FYI: Lloyd Chambers theorizes that the A7R may even use an electronic second shutter curtain. Apparently, completely vibration free exposures have been made up to 800mm focal length (!). For details, see here:

    diglloyd blog - Sony A7R vs Sony A7
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Sergio, my mistake lay in not posting images earlier. Here are two crops. They are a peeper's delight at about 4:1 so the issue becomes fairly obvious. One is at 1/60 and the other at 0.5. I will leave it to you to judge which is which. I have some others using flash in which the difference is clearer.

    The point is this camera can deliver wonderful resolution but only under the right conditions. We are deluding ourselves if we think we can get around that.

    Conditions: Foba Asaba studio stand with Sinar head, AS clamp on stand and AS plate tight on camera. A7r, iso 200, Apo Summicron M 90 asph. No sharpening applied.

    As you can see, you need to look carefully. I would be very interested to see your resolution chart snapped at 1/60 vs 0.5, with a 100% crop.

    The best way to lay all this to rest is to derive point-spread functions. I am sure someone here could do that if they wanted to. However, it is not necessary to get technical to decide whether this level of blur matters to you.
    Thanks for the examples cunim. I think that I am ready to accept such a level of blur in most if not on all situations, considering my type of shooting.
    I tested following your indications but only at 0,5 and 1/20, due to lighting constraints, but obviously, considering the tripod, I have been unable to see any difference or blur.

    Regards.
    Sergio

  32. #132
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Sergio, I'm curious: does your tripod have wooden legs?

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    FYI: Lloyd Chambers theorizes that the A7R may even use an electronic second shutter curtain. Apparently, completely vibration free exposures have been made up to 800mm focal length (!). For details, see here:

    diglloyd blog - Sony A7R vs Sony A7
    I'm confused.

    I do not have a LC subscription ... did he go into depth about the electronic second curtain of the A7R, and which camera did vibration free exposures up to 800mm?

    Seems he is focused on the A7R vibration issue in his teaser.

    - Marc

  34. #134
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'm confused.

    I do not have a LC subscription ... did he go into depth about the electronic second curtain of the A7R, and which camera did vibration free exposures up to 800mm?

    Seems he is focused on the A7R vibration issue in his teaser.

    - Marc
    No, he did not. I read that as him forwarding reader input. But he did test the APO-Telyt-R 4/280 on both cameras. A7R was just about unusable, and A7 was completely clean at all shutter speeds.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  36. #136
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post

    Many thanks. Very interesting indeed!
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    K-H
    This the main reason I sent my a7R back as it even affected my 15/2.8 shots.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    K-H
    This the main reason I sent my a7R back as it even affected my 15/2.8 shots.
    I'll add in my experience. I received my A7R on the 2nd and shot it for a week and then, on On December 10th I reported (posted frustration) that I was having trouble getting shots that were in focus especially with long lenses shot on a tripod. It was explained to me that my comparisons with the M had to do with the MP density of the A7R that accentuated the missed focus and made it more pronounced. More practice was needed.

    I continued to shoot and compere such lenses as as Leica's APO R 280 lenses, and still had trouble getting images that did not have blur. Unlike others, I couldn't figure out why I was having problems. It was frustrating because, when the image was good the quality especially centrally was staggering with the 280 APO lenses.

    I decided the advantages of more MP did not seem to outweigh the more consistent hit rate of my M with R lenses. For this and other reasons I also returned my A7R last week.


    (All shots were taken using the R lens' own mount. Possibly, this made the issue more pronounced in my instances as the light weight A7R just hung off the back of the lens on the Metabones adaptor.)

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'm confused.

    I do not have a LC subscription ... did he go into depth about the electronic second curtain of the A7R, and which camera did vibration free exposures up to 800mm?

    Seems he is focused on the A7R vibration issue in his teaser.

    - Marc
    Yes, he said this ... (in his blog, not on the paid section which I don't subscribe to)
    "The Sony A7 makes perfect vibration-free images for me and a NYC pro I trust tells me that it does so out to 800mm"

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Sergio, I'm curious: does your tripod have wooden legs?
    No, metal. Main body steel, leg extensions aluminum.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    K-H
    This the main reason I sent my a7R back as it even affected my 15/2.8 shots.
    I, for one, would sure like to see legitimate examples of this.....

    Victor

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I got a second A7R body today and in some quite close tests, it seems to me that there's a reasonable chance that the new body is more affected by shake on a tripod than the old one. Maybe. Possibly. I haven't had a problem with the old body but then I didn't try it for this problem until it had done quite a few frames: so maybe there's some mileage in the theory that the new shutters have more torque, more initial clunk and bash, and that when they are worn in a bit, loosen up, the lube has spread, whatever, it calms down.

    Maybe. Possibly. I'm not going to post examples because I was actually testing something else so my shots aren't any kind of a proof - but I have my suspicions and when the festive schedule allows, I will take a closer look...
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  43. #143
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Very interesting, Tim! Please keep us posted...

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    It's pretty simply so far: I took a load of shots with the 55 on a 'pod of a test target and the old body was pretty much always a tiny bit sharper on centre. There could be other reasons but it looks like a slight motion blur is a reasonable candidate...

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I got a second A7R body today and in some quite close tests, it seems to me that there's a reasonable chance that the new body is more affected by shake on a tripod than the old one. Maybe. Possibly. I haven't had a problem with the old body but then I didn't try it for this problem until it had done quite a few frames: so maybe there's some mileage in the theory that the new shutters have more torque, more initial clunk and bash, and that when they are worn in a bit, loosen up, the lube has spread, whatever, it calms down.

    Maybe. Possibly. I'm not going to post examples because I was actually testing something else so my shots aren't any kind of a proof - but I have my suspicions and when the festive schedule allows, I will take a closer look...
    I actually said that in a post since when I tried runs at it . 1 came up bad in the middle run. Need to break these in a little.

    Also worth trying on my one camera plate it has rubber on top. It may help. Dampen the first curtain blow. I'm not worried about this there is a easy firmware fix they can give us a 4 second the shutter closes than opens for exposure than closes just need a timing delay in the exposure part. Make use of the 4 seconds.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  46. #146
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Tim, I just had a thought: how about iPhone seismometer readings with both cams? That might be interesting...

  47. #147
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Nah, I don't know the tech well enough to know if it is serious and sensible, sorry! I think the mass coupling effect will depend on the degree of repeatability of the bolt-on setup and I'm not sure I can, err, repeat it accurately!

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I got a second A7R body today and in some quite close tests, it seems to me that there's a reasonable chance that the new body is more affected by shake on a tripod than the old one. Maybe. Possibly. I haven't had a problem with the old body but then I didn't try it for this problem until it had done quite a few frames: so maybe there's some mileage in the theory that the new shutters have more torque, more initial clunk and bash, and that when they are worn in a bit, loosen up, the lube has spread, whatever, it calms down.

    Maybe. Possibly. I'm not going to post examples because I was actually testing something else so my shots aren't any kind of a proof - but I have my suspicions and when the festive schedule allows, I will take a closer look...
    That happened with my Leica MM (or I got used to it). I think some of the testers just need to get a better quick release and clamps. As for as I am concerned, this is a tempest in a tea pot. I thought I was the only one but Sergio confirmed it.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I find it interesting that three different "pros" found similar problems with shutter vibration on the a7R with long lenses.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I find it interesting that three different "pros" found similar problems with shutter vibration on the a7R with long lenses.
    Could be because this is an amateur camera?
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