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Thread: Shutter Vibration

  1. #301
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Ron, as you could see from my previous posts, there are simply instances when the problem does not materialise even with setups fairly close to Joseph's Holmes "shakezone". Another, simple exaplantion (but not one that I would hope for, because it spells TROUBLE) is production variation. In my case, I am not getting shake despite a less-than-1-lb tripod. But in both my attemps I had rigid adapters and lens collar connection to the tripod. Hmmmm....

  2. #302
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Vivek, save your efforts. You're the one and only participant here that will stay permanently on my ignore list. Well done!
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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by philber View Post
    Ron, as you could see from my previous posts, there are simply instances when the problem does not materialise even with setups fairly close to Joseph's Holmes "shakezone". Another, simple exaplantion (but not one that I would hope for, because it spells TROUBLE) is production variation. In my case, I am not getting shake despite a less-than-1-lb tripod. But in both my attemps I had rigid adapters and lens collar connection to the tripod. Hmmmm....
    Yes, I wonder about that, too, but I'm discounting that possibility for now. I think it's 'simply' a case of the devil being in the details (i.e. particular properties of collars, plates, heads, tripods) fundamentally affecting the outcome.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Ron, as you know from my posts, I tried 2 totally different lenses and 2 totally different tripods, and got no shake. Either we are dealing with a resonant-like issue, which is my preferred outcome, or camera variation has to be considered, because it is the one common element in both my attempts. I believe Tim Ashley also wrote something to that effect now that he has two A7R cameras. There is even speculation that the camera might "break itself in" and the shake reduces after early wear.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Late afternoon with the A7r, handheld, 200mm, ISO 1000, F11, 1/320s, 4 degrees celsius, no coffee, no alcohol, had two regular meals and my age is 65.

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  6. #306
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I'm aware of the 'break-in' theory, but I personally doubt that it will make such a difference as to change from clearly problematic to producing so little vibration as to be un-noticeable (as is the case in your tests). How many actuations does the shutter of your A7R have?

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Late afternoon with the A7r, handheld, 200mm, ISO 1000, F11, 1/320s, 4 degrees celsius, no coffee, no alcohol, had two regular meals and my age is 65.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Close by appr. 10 meters, handheld, ISO 1000, F5.6, 1/1600

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  9. #309
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Late afternoon with the A7r, handheld, 200mm, ISO 1000, F11, 1/320s, 4 degrees celsius, no coffee, no alcohol, had two regular meals and my age is 65.
    Seems like the right recipe, Michiel! I think I need to speed-up time...

    Joking aside, I've had very good results even at 1/160s hand-held with my APO 180. Not so when using a tripod. Would like to do more testing, comparing different collars vs. mounting the camera directly to the head, but simply haven't had the time lately...

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    I'm aware of the 'break-in' theory, but I personally doubt that it will make such a difference as to change from clearly problematic to producing so little vibration as to be un-noticeable (as is the case in your tests). How many actuations does the shutter of your A7R have?
    Very few. Maybe a couple of hundred. But the "break-in" theory can be combined with the sample variation one. Because, if break-in is enough to get rid of the problem, then it stands to reason that even very slight variations from one camera to the next could cause differences.
    That is still not my favorite theory though. I much prefer the resonance one. Using a lens collar creates some kind of a balanced load on either side of the tripod. Whereas my direct connection is a one-sided load, mechanically totally different, because the lens mass dampens shutter vibration, which is not the case with a balanced load, if my distant memories of my physics classes are correct.

  11. #311
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Mine's at close to 1'000 actuations, and I haven't noticed an improvement. I am aware of the entirely different statics between using a collar and attaching the tripod to the camera directly, and I've read mjm6's excellent information on the issue in Karl-Heinz' thread (http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/494...keeping-3.html). But I honestly don't think attaching 1kg lenses to a tripod-mounted camera is a good idea, particularly if the lugs of the bayonet are made of plastic as they are with the A7R. It's got to be a collar for me, but attaching both the collar and the camera to a rail and mounting the rail to a tripod seems like something worth trying...
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    In this instance, I am just lucky that I don't shoot lenses longer than 90mm at this stage in my life, and this don't need a lens collar, so it looks like it is a non-issue for me.
    Ron, I didn't want to sound patronizing when I referred to the different resonant behaviors. If I did, apologies. A quick suggestion. If indeed the problem lies where I guess it does, fitting the grip and spare battery could be a simple and not-too-onerous way out of it, since I am pretty shure the resonance pattern would be altered significantly.

  13. #313
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by philber View Post
    In this instance, I am just lucky that I don't shoot lenses longer than 90mm at this stage in my life, and this don't need a lens collar, so it looks like it is a non-issue for me.
    It is for me for most of my shooting, too. I'm just looking for the right solution (using the same tripod that I normally use) for when I do need it...

    Ron, I didn't want to sound patronizing when I referred to the different resonant behaviors. If I did, apologies.
    Not at all, Philippe! My apologies if it came across that way.

    A quick suggestion. If indeed the problem lies where I guess it does, fitting the grip and spare battery could be a simple and not-too-onerous way out of it, since I am pretty shure the resonance pattern would be altered significantly.
    That really sounds like a good idea, and I was pondering this, too. But I want to maintain the A7R's small & light advantage, if ever possible. I'll test different support setups first...
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Hi Ron Phister, Philber,

    Many thanks for your efforts. Much appreciated.
    I normally shoot in landscape mode and have not noticed the issue there.
    But in portrait mode I have now 2 repeatable examples of shutter vibrations apparently.
    Next I will be using an APO-R 105-280/4.2 on tripod and see what I get.
    That is I will focus on photography but will keep on eye on the shutter vibration issue.

    I have the long lens support equipment now but will not use it on my Gitzos.
    I fear the clamp pressing on the carbon fiber leg may crack it.
    Maybe I should get a sturdy metal tripod. Any recommendations? Thanks.

    I have the battery grip as well but prefer not using it.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Ron, tomorrow I will re-shoot in portrait mode. If I develop the same trouble as others, then it will simplify matters, and this will steer us towards a "system" issue. If, perchance, I still report a trouble-free image, then the probability of production variation goes up substantially. I will let you know. While it is most unlikely to affect me in real life, getting to the bottom of it is still of interest.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Late afternoon with the A7r, handheld, 200mm, ISO 1000, F11, 1/320s, 4 degrees celsius, no coffee, no alcohol, had two regular meals and my age is 65.


    Thanks Michiel. Terrific detailed shot. Superb!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Hi Ron Phister, Philber,

    I have the battery grip as well but prefer not using it.
    K-H, I know you have already put in a lot of time, and thank you for it, but if you could test with and without the battery and grip, everything else being identical, you could go a fair way towards identifying the problem source. I would gladly do it, except that my dealer hasn't received my grip yet.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/558354-post298.html

    Some can not see even when it is in plain sight. It isn't a 7kg tripod but the lack of a quick release plate and a clamp.

    Oops! All the tests have to be redone now?

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    OK, here some quick test results, and then off to bed...

    Lens: Leica APO-Elmarit-R 1:2.8/180
    Aperture: f/2.8
    Adapter: modified Voigtländer F Adapter (baffle removed, shimmed)
    Sensor orientation: landscape
    Shutter triggering method: 10s self-timer
    Tripod: RRS TVC-33
    Tripod head: Arca d4
    Attachment device:
    - Leica STA-1 tripod collar with RRS QR-Plate
    - Novoflex ASTAT-NEX tripod collar
    - flimsy and tiny no-name QR-plate directly on camera
    Target: self-made, consisting of line grids (0.5 x 40mm lines) at varying orientations
    Object distance: approx. 3.5m
    Procedure: 3 exposures at 1/50s and ISO 100 with each attachment device, best result selected (sample variation was found to be absolutely minimal), 100% crop presented





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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Late afternoon with the A7r, handheld, 200mm, ISO 1000, F11, 1/320s, 4 degrees celsius, no coffee, no alcohol, had two regular meals and my age is 65.
    Excellent detail Michiel. But how can you get to late afternoon without coffee or alcohol? Those dreary winter days require both!

    Joe
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Ron, just for grins set your shutter speed to 1/100th, and see what you get.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    I checked a few cams laying around and none have this type of resonant cavities built in.

    The A7R's bottom.


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Where do those cavities sit when attached to a tripod? Cork surface in my case and Sergio's tripod. The various QR plates have strips meant for larger surface areas. When there is void created by attaching a QR plate, it will likely create problems. Add a bit of silicone gel sheet ( a band aid, for example!) to make sure these get covered.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by philber View Post
    K-H, I know you have already put in a lot of time, and thank you for it, but if you could test with and without the battery and grip, everything else being identical, you could go a fair way towards identifying the problem source. I would gladly do it, except that my dealer hasn't received my grip yet.
    Thanks. I followed your suggestion. Results are presented here:

    post #131 of http://www.getdpi.com/forum/558442-post131.html
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Thanks, K-H. Just so that you know you are not alone in spending time and effort on tests, I did the portrait test as per your suggestion. Same system (Contax C/Y 180mm, Gitzo 0541). Early on, 1/2s exposure, no shake, either in landscape or in portrait. Later, 1/40s, no shake in portrait (didn't do landscape, as it seemed pointless). Later on, 1/100s, supposedly critical speed, still no shake in ladscape or in portrait. If I squint long and hard at the portrait, I can say that there is the faintest lack of sharpness (no shake visible), but that could well be self-suggestion. If you want, I can show the pics.
    Well, it is not getting any easier... My guess is still that there are resonances lurking within the camera, excited by certain weight/stiffness/shutter speed combinations, otherwise it is just peace and (not) quiet...
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by philber View Post
    Thanks, K-H. Just so that you know you are not alone in spending time and effort on tests, I did the portrait test as per your suggestion. Same system (Contax C/Y 180mm, Gitzo 0541). Early on, 1/2s exposure, no shake, either in landscape or in portrait. Later, 1/40s, no shake in portrait (didn't do landscape, as it seemed pointless). Later on, 1/100s, supposedly critical speed, still no shake in ladscape or in portrait. If I squint long and hard at the portrait, I can say that there is the faintest lack of sharpness (no shake visible), but that could well be self-suggestion. If you want, I can show the pics.
    Well, it is not getting any easier... My guess is still that there are resonances lurking within the camera, excited by certain weight/stiffness/shutter speed combinations, otherwise it is just peace and (not) quiet...

    Thank you Philippe (I hope I got your name right! Otherwise I apologize) Sounds good!
    I am convinced there will be fewer problems with just the APO-R 280/4 or the Vario-R 105-280/4.2.
    Especially in landscape orientation.



    A7R + VARIO-R 105-280/4.2

    Cheers, Karl-Heinz.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Since this whole vibration business is not repeatable and not experienced by others, it is a conspiracy to drum up free advertisement for various blogs. To quote a well known person here, it is bullshit and nothing else.
    By the time I'd rejected the camera Vivek, this issue hadn't come up. But it was absolutely obvious to me that the vibration caused by the loud shutter noise meant that you needed a much faster shutter speed than you would with a camera without a clanging shutter-like ALL the other cameras I own

    My feelings about Lloyd are no different from yours,but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong. You need some kind of demonstrable fault before you can use it as propaganda to bring traffic to your blog.

    Just like the smeary corners Vivek, if you are doing handheld street photography for Flickr with the sort of careful composition you always use, neither smeary corners nor shutter slam are going to have much effect on you. But it doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Go make some pictures folks. Life is short to give in to this sort of false propaganda.
    .......I don't think it's in the spirit of the forum to call people liars when you disagree with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If things shkae, sharpen your technique instead of blaming it on the camera.
    Or get another camera which doesn't exhibit the problem! (Or shoot pictures where to doesn't matter)

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Mis-characterization has its followers:

    How this:

    Go make some pictures folks. Life is short to give in to this sort of false propaganda.
    could be termed as this

    .......I don't think it's in the spirit of the forum to call people liars when you disagree with them.
    is baffling.

    Photos for flickr..some words are really thought provoking and I thank you for the provocation.



    I see the spirit and I think I will take a break for the spirit to engulf and enrich.

    Cheers!
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  28. #328
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    Ron, just for grins set your shutter speed to 1/100th, and see what you get.
    Chuck, I did that as part of the above series, and the results were much better than at 1/50s (see below the result with the STA-1 collar).

    My conclusions:

    - The Leica STA-1 is just about un-usable with the A7R at this shutter speed (it works so-so with the D800E on the same lens - much better, but not perfect)

    - The Novoflex ASTAT-NEX is much better, but not good enough in my view

    - I was surprised by the result with the camera mounted directly to the tripod, using the cheap little QR-plate. I'm aware that this is much less of a seesaw situation, and therefore better. That and clamping a heavy head and tripod combo to the camera results in mass coupling, improving the situation further. But this setup has so much slop and focusing is so fiddly due to vibrations when handling the lens (and the focusing ring of my APO 180 has a *very* light touch) that I never expected the result to be just about perfect. Unfortunately, this setup is a no-go for me for the reasons stated earlier.

    Oh well, more testing...

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Okay enough of the sideways talk folks. A Problem is obvious with longer lenses and workarounds are needed until a fix is in. Just because you may not be experiencing it with your current kit does not mean its not there. I personally am not seeing it with my kit up to 135 mm lens but that means nothing to folks having issues. In the spirit of this forum lets help those that are and let's get pig headed about it. I mostly stayed out of this since it's not a issue for ME YET but let's not also bury our head in the sand and deny it either. Sony needs to fix it I think we can all agree on that and having a firmware update for all just makes it a more rounded system that helps everyone . Let's stick to the workarounds and tests and try to help each other. I see several people ignoring others and it affects everyone. There is no isolation when your working within the spirit of the members. Absolutely we can disagree on topics but lets do that with respect or I will be forced to be the asshole and do things I don't want to. Capice
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    OK, here some quick test results, and then off to bed...

    Lens: Leica APO-Elmarit-R 1:2.8/180
    Aperture: f/2.8
    Adapter: modified Voigtländer F Adapter (baffle removed, shimmed)
    Sensor orientation: landscape
    Shutter triggering method: 10s self-timer
    Tripod: RRS TVC-33
    Tripod head: Arca d4
    Attachment device:
    - Leica STA-1 tripod collar with RRS QR-Plate
    - Novoflex ASTAT-NEX tripod collar
    - flimsy and tiny no-name QR-plate directly on camera
    Target: self-made, consisting of line grids (0.5 x 40mm lines) at varying orientations
    Object distance: approx. 3.5m
    Procedure: 3 exposures at 1/50s and ISO 100 with each attachment device, best result selected (sample variation was found to be absolutely minimal), 100% crop presented
    Ron - great test. I think this shows how tripod-camera setups can influence results. I’ve shown in the iseismology tests that there is prolonged vibration prior to the onset of exposure in the A7R. It's not more intense than a DSLR just longer in duration. Although this prelude may not have much to do with vibration at the sensor at the moment of exposure, it may however set the stage for vibration through the tripod/adapter/foot connections. It can effect the expensive tripod setups and be ok with the inexpensive setups. This type of vibration is not part of equipment design.

    The A7R has a unique characteristic, a 36mp sensor and a long shutter duration. This combination requires the utmost care in camera-tripod setup to minimize the effects of shutter vibration. This is primarily important with long lenses. Tap on the lens when viewing the subject, tap on the camera body, tighten some more, try again.

    On another note: All of us should get away from the ideal that 1/100 second is the worst. From my recollection Diglloyd tested 1/100 - 1/400 and stated 1/100 was the worst. It can mislead readers that 1/80, 1/60 1/40 etc. is ok. The A7R mounted with my crappy adapter and at 200mm shows a progressive increase in shutter vibration down to 1/20 second.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Does anyone have a camera plate with a rubber top. If someone does that is having the issues I would love to see them switch to different plate with rubber on it as I suspect it may dampen the first curtain when it hits. Or maybe add that Sugru to a plate and see if it does something. I just have this feeling a rubber plate may just help
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Could it be the Novoflex adapter and not focal length dependent?
    Certainly could be but I do not think it is any one thing. As many are reporting, the problem comes and goes as mass moves about in relation to the shutter mount / camera block. That pretty much defines a resonant system. Given that I do not see obvious problems with the 55, it appears to me that the shutter mount is tuned pretty well for at least this native lens.

    Of course, many of us are eager to use other lenses and, sadly, Sony does not appear to have paid much attention to that desire. Some lenses/adapters work, some don't. Now that Sony are aware of it they will have the choice - make the next iteration more flexible or not. Flexible would make the folks here happy but I'll bet it weighs more. In contrast, dedicated is traditional for a conservative Japanese company interested in selling more native lenses. I wonder.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    For reference only.

    I took over 400 images yesterday with the A7r (gripped) and 55/1.8FE. Not a single sign of shutter shock with various speeds and apertures. Super sharp photos with an extremely high focus hit rate.
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  34. #334
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by wuffstuff View Post
    For reference only.

    I took over 400 images yesterday with the A7r (gripped) and 55/1.8FE. Not a single sign of shutter shock with various speeds and apertures. Super sharp photos with an extremely high focus hit rate.
    Steve, this was all hand-held, right?

    Edit: some terrific images in the series you published on your site. Congrats!
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thank you Philippe (I hope I got your name right! Otherwise I apologize) Sounds good!
    I am convinced there will be fewer problems with just the APO-R 280/4 or the Vario-R 105-280/4.2.
    Especially in landscape orientation.


    A7R + VARIO-R 105-280/4.2

    Cheers, Karl-Heinz.
    K-H

    That is a monster of a lens. Do you recall the shutter speed used with this image? Assume it was on tripod with the setup you showed a million posts ago. Thanks.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Steve, this was all hand-held, right?

    Edit: some terrific images in the series you published on your site. Congrats!
    All images were taken hand held, centre focus point and auto ISO. The resolution is breathtaking. The camera made a difficult shoot much easier.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by wuffstuff View Post
    For reference only.

    I took over 400 images yesterday with the A7r (gripped) and 55/1.8FE. Not a single sign of shutter shock with various speeds and apertures. Super sharp photos with an extremely high focus hit rate.

    Thanks. That doesn't surprise me at all.

    I also have very positive experience with the FE 35/2.8 on the A7R. Over Christmas I handed the camera in fully automatic mode to family members to take pictures. It certainly knows how to focus on human faces. Same as the OM-D E-M1. Great cameras, both of them.

    One difference is I can shoot handheld wide open tree lights at ISO 100 and 1 s exposure times with the E-M1 + 12-40/2.8 lens and its IBIS and get acceptably sharp images. The A7R and FE 35/2.8 chose ISO 6400 to get similar shots. Of course the ISO 6400 raw files clean up very nicely in post. Comparing the two results I concluded the A7R images showed more detail.

    Of course, if doing these kinds of shots for real I would use a tripod. Anyway, these examples demonstrated to me the usefulness of IBIS in a future Sony FF camera.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Does anyone have a camera plate with a rubber top. If someone does that is having the issues I would love to see them switch to different plate with rubber on it as I suspect it may dampen the first curtain when it hits. Or maybe add that Sugru to a plate and see if it does something. I just have this feeling a rubber plate may just help
    Guy, the dinky little plate I've used with good results in my tests (see above) has deeply recessed rubber strips on the mounting surface which barely protrude. I doubt they make much difference in my case because when attached to the camera, it looks like the strips are completely compressed and the aluminum surface of the plate is making full contact with the camera body. I believe the big difference I've seen in my tests is due to mass coupling when attaching the tripod directly to the camera via a QR-plate.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Does anyone have a camera plate with a rubber top.
    As it happens, both quick-release plates that I used for testing are rubber-topped, and they were the only point of contact (no lens collar). And I haven't been able to generate a problem.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Guy, Philippe,

    I believe the common theme with people who have had problems is the use of tripod collars (either the Novoflex ASTAT-NEX mounted to an adapter or lens-specific collars), thus leaving the camera relatively free to vibrate its own low mass because the only attachment point to the system is the lens mount surface which is perpendicular to the optical axis. I am thinking the key is to couple the camera body to the system via its tripod mount (i.e. parallel to the optical axis).
    Last edited by Ron Pfister; 29th December 2013 at 09:11. Reason: Edited for clarity
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    K-H

    That is a monster of a lens. Do you recall the shutter speed used with this image? Assume it was on tripod with the setup you showed a million posts ago. Thanks.
    Lou,

    Thanks. I left the Exif data in the image.

    Brightness Value: -3.194
    Color Space: sRGB
    Contrast: Normal
    Custom Rendered: Normal process
    Date Time Digitized: Dec 23, 2013, 5:15:32 PM
    Date Time Original: Dec 23, 2013, 5:15:32 PM
    Digital Zoom Ratio: 1
    Exif Version: 2.3
    Exposure Bias Value: 0
    Exposure Mode: Auto exposure
    Exposure Program: Aperture priority
    Exposure Time: 1/3
    File Source: DSC
    Flash: Off, did not fire
    Focal Plane Resolution Unit: centimeters
    Focal Plane X Resolution: 2,049.067
    Focal Plane Y Resolution: 2,049.067
    Photographic Sensitivity (ISO): 100
    Lens Model: ----
    Light Source: unknown
    Max Aperture Value: 0
    Metering Mode: Pattern
    Pixel X Dimension: 1,200
    Pixel Y Dimension: 801
    RecommendedExposureIndex: 100
    Saturation: Normal
    Scene Capture Type: Standard
    Scene Type: A directly photographed image
    SensitivityType: Recommended exposure index (REI)
    Sharpness: Normal
    Shutter Speed Value: 1.585
    White Balance: Auto white balance
    Lens Model: ----

    You assumed correctly. Despite 1/3 s exposure time the image looks sharp to me. Here is a 100% crop.

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    You assumed correctly. Despite 1/3 s exposure time the image looks sharp to me. Here is a 100% crop.
    I agree - looks quite sharp. However, by 1/3s you may very well be leaving the 'danger zone' of your particular setup.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Guy, Philippe,

    I believe the common theme with people who have had problems is the use of tripod collars (either the Novoflex ASTAT-NEX mounted to an adapter or lens-specific collars), thus leaving the camera relatively free to vibrate its own low mass because the only attachment point to the system is the lens mount surface which is perpendicular to the optical axis. I am thinking the key is to couple the camera body to the system via its tripod mount (i.e. parallel to the optical axis).
    Love to see someone that is having known issue try the camera to head with the rubber plate than wedge like a foam support under the lens between it and a rail. Basically float the whole rig on a cushion. Be interesting to what the results are. I know crazy idea but it may just work. On my 135 I tried first with my rubber plate and got nothing at all. Now I have hard plate on and not really seen it but I can't test right now it again. I can't get my right arm up to my head. I hurt my shoulder yesterday putting Xmas stuff in the attic. So I can't even reach my face with it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Guy, Philippe,

    I believe the common theme with people who have had problems is the use of tripod collars (either the Novoflex ASTAT-NEX mounted to an adapter or lens-specific collars), thus leaving the camera relatively free to vibrate its own low mass because the only attachment point to the system is the lens mount surface which is perpendicular to the optical axis. I am thinking the key is to couple the camera body to the system via its tripod mount (i.e. parallel to the optical axis).

    Ron,

    Many thanks. You may have a point.
    However, I don't think there is anything wrong with the Novoflex ASTAT-NEX.
    It's very convenient to have to switch back and forth between landscape and portrait mode.

    But I agree with you what's needed is to couple the camera directly to the mass of the lens and support structure.
    The Novoflex ASTAT-NEX certainly does not facilitate that coupling.
    I'll work something out for my test configuration.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    I agree - looks quite sharp. However, by 1/3s you may very well be leaving the 'danger zone' of your particular setup.
    Thanks Ron. Good point!
    Sometimes I get lucky!
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Love to see someone that is having known issue try the camera to head with the rubber plate than wedge like a foam support under the lens between it and a rail. Basically float the whole rig on a cushion. Be interesting to what the results are. I know crazy idea but it may just work.
    Dare I say it: Lloyd Chambers has done something very similar with the APO 135 when he was using it on the M240, and has reported success.

    diglloyd blog - Supporting the Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 APO-Distagon on the Sony A7R

    On my 135 I tried first with my rubber plate and got nothing at all. Now I have hard plate on and not really seen it but I can't test right now it again. I can't get my right arm up to my head. I hurt my shoulder yesterday putting Xmas stuff in the attic. So I can't even reach my face with it.
    Oh dear - sounds painful! Hope you get better quickly...

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks. That doesn't surprise me at all.

    I also have very positive experience with the FE 35/2.8 on the A7R. Over Christmas I handed the camera in fully automatic mode to family members to take pictures. It certainly knows how to focus on human faces. Same as the OM-D E-M1. Great cameras, both of them.

    One difference is I can shoot handheld wide open tree lights at ISO 100 and 1 s exposure times with the E-M1 + 12-40/2.8 lens and its IBIS and get acceptably sharp images. The A7R and FE 35/2.8 chose ISO 6400 to get similar shots. Of course the ISO 6400 raw files clean up very nicely in post. Comparing the two results I concluded the A7R images showed more detail.

    Of course, if doing these kinds of shots for real I would use a tripod. Anyway, these examples demonstrated to me the usefulness of IBIS in a future Sony FF camera.
    Again, I think this may not happen anytime soon if both the upcoming FE zooms that are OSS are any indication. But, hey, ya never know. I think that for the time being, in-camera IS will be reserved for the Alpha SLT cameras ... which may also get a bit smaller and higher resolution.

    I am chomping at the bit to get the FE24-70/4 OSS because it is my most used focal length for weddings and events by a huge margin ... and with the 55/1.8 meets 90% of those needs as well as travel. The 24-70 specs with 10 elements in 12 groups including an ED lens and five Asph elements sounds promising ... so we can only hope

    An AF FE135/2 OSS or even f/2.8 OSS would complete the set for me. Dream on.

    - Marc
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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Dare I say it: Lloyd Chambers has done something very similar with the APO 135 when he was using it on the M240, and has reported success.

    diglloyd blog - Supporting the Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 APO-Distagon on the Sony A7R



    Oh dear - sounds painful! Hope you get better quickly...
    I don't read Lloyd's articles. If it's not free info to help people I'm
    just paying anymore for that kind if info.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I don't read Lloyd's articles. If it's not free info to help people I'm
    just paying anymore for that kind if info.
    Well, the blog is free and you can see a pic of the setup I mentioned in the blog post I linked to.

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    Re: Shutter Vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    I am chomping at the bit to get the FE24-70/4 OSS because it is my most used focal length for weddings and events by a huge margin ... and with the 55/1.8 meets 90% of those needs as well as travel. The 24-70 specs with 10 elements in 12 groups including an ED lens and five Asph elements sounds promising ... so we can only hope

    An AF FE135/2 OSS or even f/2.8 OSS would complete the set for me. Dream on.

    - Marc
    me too Marc. if the f4 zoom. is good I'm in, if not I'm out, that's what it boils down to for me.

    Just this guy you know
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