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Shutter Vibration

tashley

Subscriber Member
I got a second A7R body today and in some quite close tests, it seems to me that there's a reasonable chance that the new body is more affected by shake on a tripod than the old one. Maybe. Possibly. I haven't had a problem with the old body but then I didn't try it for this problem until it had done quite a few frames: so maybe there's some mileage in the theory that the new shutters have more torque, more initial clunk and bash, and that when they are worn in a bit, loosen up, the lube has spread, whatever, it calms down.

Maybe. Possibly. I'm not going to post examples because I was actually testing something else so my shots aren't any kind of a proof - but I have my suspicions and when the festive schedule allows, I will take a closer look...
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
It's pretty simply so far: I took a load of shots with the 55 on a 'pod of a test target and the old body was pretty much always a tiny bit sharper on centre. There could be other reasons but it looks like a slight motion blur is a reasonable candidate...
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I got a second A7R body today and in some quite close tests, it seems to me that there's a reasonable chance that the new body is more affected by shake on a tripod than the old one. Maybe. Possibly. I haven't had a problem with the old body but then I didn't try it for this problem until it had done quite a few frames: so maybe there's some mileage in the theory that the new shutters have more torque, more initial clunk and bash, and that when they are worn in a bit, loosen up, the lube has spread, whatever, it calms down.

Maybe. Possibly. I'm not going to post examples because I was actually testing something else so my shots aren't any kind of a proof - but I have my suspicions and when the festive schedule allows, I will take a closer look...
I actually said that in a post since when I tried runs at it . 1 came up bad in the middle run. Need to break these in a little.

Also worth trying on my one camera plate it has rubber on top. It may help. Dampen the first curtain blow. I'm not worried about this there is a easy firmware fix they can give us a 4 second the shutter closes than opens for exposure than closes just need a timing delay in the exposure part. Make use of the 4 seconds.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Nah, I don't know the tech well enough to know if it is serious and sensible, sorry! I think the mass coupling effect will depend on the degree of repeatability of the bolt-on setup and I'm not sure I can, err, repeat it accurately!
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I got a second A7R body today and in some quite close tests, it seems to me that there's a reasonable chance that the new body is more affected by shake on a tripod than the old one. Maybe. Possibly. I haven't had a problem with the old body but then I didn't try it for this problem until it had done quite a few frames: so maybe there's some mileage in the theory that the new shutters have more torque, more initial clunk and bash, and that when they are worn in a bit, loosen up, the lube has spread, whatever, it calms down.

Maybe. Possibly. I'm not going to post examples because I was actually testing something else so my shots aren't any kind of a proof - but I have my suspicions and when the festive schedule allows, I will take a closer look...
That happened with my Leica MM (or I got used to it). I think some of the testers just need to get a better quick release and clamps. As for as I am concerned, this is a tempest in a tea pot. I thought I was the only one but Sergio confirmed it.
 

algrove

Well-known member
I find it interesting that three different "pros" found similar problems with shutter vibration on the a7R with long lenses.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I'm with Vivek, you can get a quart into a pint pot if you really squeeze but not a half-gallon. Something has to give. I think there are lots of adventurous tasks to which an A7R could be put but some of them are more likely to be of the stunt variety than the seriously professionally reliable type. There's a Dr Johnson quote about a dog walking on its hind legs.

That said, and the longest lens I have tried is a 100 Makro Planar, I think the focus wins out-do the shake loses for me so far.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
So, for a 280 mm lens on A7R what is the worst exposure time to observe shutter vibration? :eek:
I would be happy if somebody could give me a range of exposure time offenders.
Thanks. ;)
 

turtle

New member
Could be because this is an amateur camera?
I don't think such distinctions are really possible, nowadays. Most of magnum shoots on consumer or prosumer cameras. Many amateurs shoot on 'pro kit'. Besides, the Canon 1D III had massive AF issues, according to many, the D3 or D3s have fewer pixels than most M4/3 cameras...

Its either a camera that take someone's photography forwards or not. It does the job or it doesn't. Sounds like for habitual long lens users the A7R is a serious problem, but for those who don't use long lenses, the issue is inconsequential. Guess we will have to see how the Sony 70-200 EF fares, because that could go either way.

As for a firmware fix, while Sony may normally be slow to deal with FW fixes, this camera is so new and the hullabaloo so loud they may consider it wise to nip it in the bud, if possible through FW (or at least improve it).
 
V

Vivek

Guest
So, for a 280 mm lens on A7R what is the worst exposure time to observe shutter vibration? :eek:
I would be happy if somebody could give me a range of exposure time offenders.
Thanks. ;)
Haven't you heard? Apparantly, the new M also does the same thing in that tester's hands. Rock Kentwell is a lovable guy, I tell ya. ;)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I don't think such distinctions are really possible, nowadays. Most of magnum shoots on consumer or prosumer cameras. Many amateurs shoot on 'pro kit'. Besides, the Canon 1D III had massive AF issues, according to many, the D3 or D3s have fewer pixels than most M4/3 cameras...

Its either a camera that take someone's photography forwards or not. It does the job or it doesn't. Sounds like for habitual long lens users the A7R is a serious problem, but for those who don't use long lenses, the issue is inconsequential. Guess we will have to see how the Sony 70-200 EF fares, because that could go either way.

As for a firmware fix, while Sony may normally be slow to deal with FW fixes, this camera is so new and the hullabaloo so loud they may consider it wise to nip it in the bud, if possible through FW (or at least improve it).
Turtle, I will quote this.

The image posted in the test don't have the resolution to even be "photo quality." I am sure I could take an iPhone into the studio and come out with a really nice image that will look really good on a monitor. A photograph is a collection of variable and when you throw in whether the picture is pretty, it gets even messier.

Repeat the test with 24" prints and I bet things change.

On a related note, I keep seeing people bemoan the fact that sample photos from places like DPreview are not very interesting and they should have "better" pictures to show "what the camera can do." The camera does not change interest nor make good pictures. You can take powerful images with any camera. Unfortunately, the item that gives that result is not for sale.
The last line is of paramount importance.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
So, what are the worst exposure times?
Say, between 1 s and 1/250 s?
Would that be good enough for testing?
Thanks.
 

algrove

Well-known member
K-H
I no longer use the 1/FL. I often use whenever possible FLx3. Not always possible. LC said he had at 1/100 very bad shutter vibration on his blog. Seemed the a7 performed better due to its shutter mechanism. I will revisit this system when things are worked out as it is a highly viable alternative for me.

Vivek
When I said pros I did not mean the camera was not for pros, but they have more experience than I have with cameras when you combine the experience of three of them. That's all.
 

Auni

Member
So, for a 280 mm lens on A7R what is the worst exposure time to observe shutter vibration? :eek:
I would be happy if somebody could give me a range of exposure time offenders.
Thanks. ;)
I can give you only a partial answer. I had a lot of trouble at 1/100-1/160. The shots from this sequence were done in early December. I didn't know at that time why these shots were coming out blurred. They were shot on a medium heavy Manfroto with an Arcatech ballhead.

Later I did some shots at 1/250 that were extremely sharp. 1/250sec seemed to be the best of my shots. I'd start at 1/250sec + the 280/4 APO for the least shutter vibration.
 
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