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Shutter Vibration

Ron Pfister

Ron Pfister

Member
turtle said:
For those who are using long lenses, what is the application and is this a major part of your work? I ask this not to dismiss your application, but because I recognise that my needs are not necessarily yours and its not easy to imagine what other people get up to with their cameras!!!
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For my use (primarily landscape and nature subjects), I regularly use lenses in the range between 19 and 180mm, rarely 280mm. Lenses in the range 25-85mm see the most use, but the range from 135 to 280mm comes in really handy when I want a detail shot but can't get close enough to the subject, which happens fairly often.

I agree that a DSLR is the tool of choice for most wildlife subjects, although I use manual focus there, too. But IS is essential at these focal lengths (up to 700mm in my case).

To make a camera like the A7R truly universally usable for my purposes, built-in IS would be a god send.

How many of you were/are expecting to buy the 70-200 F4 G?
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Not likely. If need be, I can always use my Canon 70-200 with a Metabones adapter.
 
T

turtle

New member
I also have a Canon 70-200 (the F4 L without stabilisation) and could use this on the A7R (tho I am not sure I ever will), but I am wondering if the forthcoming 70-200 F4 G with stabilisation will have the vibration issues or whether the stabilisation unit will iron it out.

The more I think about it, the more a double kit of A7R and A7 makes sense, as the cameras clearly have different strengths. ... It would also be perfect for being able to shoot with someone else on one set of lenses, but a lot less weight than a similarly specced DSLR outfit.

Guy, do you think the AF on the A7 will be good enough for runway work? I am not sure what the D800 is like as I have never used one, but the 5D III inspires such confidence in this area that I'd be loathe to leave it at home and take the A7/R, personally. When I used a demo A7, it felt nowhere near as responsive as the 5D III.

I guess we'll have to do our own tests. I did with the 24 TS-E to see which apertures to use for full shift... which apertures looked like what for stitched panos. A bit of testing is normal. Lets just remember what working with a new film or developer, or paper, or enlarger lens, or even inkjet paper is like!

FWIW, having just received my A7R, its quite a bit louder/more noticeable than the regular A7 IMO. Can't say I'm worried about it, because I don't really see either as particularly good street cameras - certainly not for quick or discreet use. I do not see this camera and the M/M9/MM as competing with each other really.
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Re: Shutter Vibration
I also have a Canon 70-200 (the F4 L without stabilisation) and could use this on the A7R (tho I am not sure I ever will), but I am wondering if the forthcoming 70-200 F4 G with stabilisation will have the vibration issues or whether the stabilisation unit will iron it out.

The more I think about it, the more a double kit of A7R and A7 makes sense, as the cameras clearly have different strengths. ... It would also be perfect for being able to shoot with someone else on one set of lenses, but a lot less weight than a similarly specced DSLR outfit.

Guy, do you think the AF on the A7 will be good enough for runway work?


Im not sure how fast these are and that is a big worry. The D800 AF focus follow is okay and it does a decent job with runway but far from perfect. I also don't machine gun either so that helps its about 5 shots in a 75 foot walk otherwise i would be uploading 30k images to smugmug. That is far too much to deal with 15k is tough enough. So shooting speed not the biggest deal but follow focus is because without it and release than press in single focus mode will just wear me out.
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hmm Im just not seeing it. Just playing with my Zeiss 135 F2 with a Novaflex adapter for a G mount . Im looking at the LCD a max magnify and I am just not seeing it at any speed. I will double check for sure on computer.
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Wow that was interesting. Went in the garage with door open shot some wine box with type. I first shot outside and nothing than turned to the wine box first run nothing, second run from 1/5 to 1/60 sure enough. Went and refocused ran it exactly again and zilch. Conclusion double check your tests and it just might be a floating problem that comes and goes. Not sure but I'm over it already and moving on. Im not worrying about this one. I think it has to do with several factors camera shake is one of them. We need a 4 second delay bottom line, 2 seconds is not enough. The shutter just maybe breaking in as well sounds weird but lets put some more time on it.
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Okay this thing likes batteries. I have 4 and 6 is in the cards. LOL

Im using the vertical grip and its okay on a tripod but I have a small foot on it and may go to the bigger one as i am getting a little shake when touching it. Sometimes small is bad
 
Knorp

Knorp

Well-known member
Ron Pfister

Ron Pfister

Member
ferrellmc said:
I did a little Seismometer study on the A7R shutter vibration and compared it to D3 and NEX-7.

It's helpful to see the shutter vibration in graphic form, 3 axes are graphed.

Posted here:

Sony A7R vibration comparison with Nikon D3 and Sony NEX-7 » Before The Coffee
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Many thanks for doing these tests, Ferrell - brilliant! Hope you can find someone with an A7 to run the same tests with. I wonder to what extent the mass of the iPhone influenced the results. It's probably close to 25% of the mass of the A7R...
 
S

sergio lovisolo

Member
cunim said:
Sergio, my mistake lay in not posting images earlier. Here are two crops. They are a peeper's delight at about 4:1 so the issue becomes fairly obvious. One is at 1/60 and the other at 0.5. I will leave it to you to judge which is which. I have some others using flash in which the difference is clearer.

The point is this camera can deliver wonderful resolution but only under the right conditions. We are deluding ourselves if we think we can get around that.

Conditions: Foba Asaba studio stand with Sinar head, AS clamp on stand and AS plate tight on camera. A7r, iso 200, Apo Summicron M 90 asph. No sharpening applied.

As you can see, you need to look carefully. I would be very interested to see your resolution chart snapped at 1/60 vs 0.5, with a 100% crop.

The best way to lay all this to rest is to derive point-spread functions. I am sure someone here could do that if they wanted to. However, it is not necessary to get technical to decide whether this level of blur matters to you.
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Thanks for the examples cunim. I think that I am ready to accept such a level of blur in most if not on all situations, considering my type of shooting.
I tested following your indications but only at 0,5 and 1/20, due to lighting constraints, but obviously, considering the tripod, I have been unable to see any difference or blur.

Regards.
Sergio
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
Ron Pfister said:
FYI: Lloyd Chambers theorizes that the A7R may even use an electronic second shutter curtain. Apparently, completely vibration free exposures have been made up to 800mm focal length (!). For details, see here:

diglloyd blog - Sony A7R vs Sony A7
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I'm confused.

I do not have a LC subscription ... did he go into depth about the electronic second curtain of the A7R, and which camera did vibration free exposures up to 800mm?

Seems he is focused on the A7R vibration issue in his teaser.

- Marc
 
Ron Pfister

Ron Pfister

Member
fotografz said:
I'm confused.

I do not have a LC subscription ... did he go into depth about the electronic second curtain of the A7R, and which camera did vibration free exposures up to 800mm?

Seems he is focused on the A7R vibration issue in his teaser.

- Marc
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No, he did not. I read that as him forwarding reader input. But he did test the APO-Telyt-R 4/280 on both cameras. A7R was just about unusable, and A7 was completely clean at all shutter speeds.
 
A

Auni

Member
algrove said:
K-H
This the main reason I sent my a7R back as it even affected my 15/2.8 shots.
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I'll add in my experience. I received my A7R on the 2nd and shot it for a week and then, on On December 10th I reported (posted frustration) that I was having trouble getting shots that were in focus especially with long lenses shot on a tripod. It was explained to me that my comparisons with the M had to do with the MP density of the A7R that accentuated the missed focus and made it more pronounced. More practice was needed.

I continued to shoot and compere such lenses as as Leica's APO R 280 lenses, and still had trouble getting images that did not have blur. Unlike others, I couldn't figure out why I was having problems. It was frustrating because, when the image was good the quality especially centrally was staggering with the 280 APO lenses.

I decided the advantages of more MP did not seem to outweigh the more consistent hit rate of my M with R lenses. For this and other reasons I also returned my A7R last week.


(All shots were taken using the R lens' own mount. Possibly, this made the issue more pronounced in my instances as the light weight A7R just hung off the back of the lens on the Metabones adaptor.)
 
M

mbroomfield

New member
fotografz said:
I'm confused.

I do not have a LC subscription ... did he go into depth about the electronic second curtain of the A7R, and which camera did vibration free exposures up to 800mm?

Seems he is focused on the A7R vibration issue in his teaser.

- Marc
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Yes, he said this ... (in his blog, not on the paid section which I don't subscribe to)
"The Sony A7 makes perfect vibration-free images for me and a NYC pro I trust tells me that it does so out to 800mm"
 
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