Sony A7r bottom line

[250swb]

I can still shake that and get fuzzy pics (with a Novoflex adapter and on a Gitzo, Arca cube/sphere/oval/flat, etc), you want to make a bet?

I'm not sure if I read what you mean correctly, but you do need to turn off image stabilisation when the camera is on a tripod or you will get fuzzy pictures.

Steve

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I don't know, John. I posted this in another thread, and it's obviously just a snap shot of my baby daughter destined for the family "shoebox",

Guy's great advice is only relevant if you want to get everything out of the 36MP AA-free sensor. If you want to get as much out of it as you get from the GR sensor, you can be less deliberate with it and still have fun with all the lenses .

Absolutely correct and it's knowing your gear and shots your after will determine what you need to do to get it. This is a great all around cam and nothing should stop you from having fun with it.

My posts are not meant to scare one off from getting one but more knowing what you have in your hands to achieve the end goal. I buy the biggest sensor camera so I never feel like I wish I had the big sensor when shooting something I really want. Nothing worse than your out there with a cam and you come up to a subject and kick yourself because you really want to shoot it big.

 

[Vivek]

I'm not sure if I read what you mean correctly, but you do need to turn off image stabilisation when the camera is on a tripod or you will get fuzzy pictures.

Steve

I meant what I said, Steve. Yeah, the 5 axes stabilo needs to be off on a cube.
(minor detail)

 

[f64]

Very informative thread. I am debating whether go A7R and wondering if I could get your valuable feedback, hopefully without being OT.
I currently use two NEXes (5 and C3) primarily with CV 15 (will not really work, I know), CY 50/1.4 and CY 80-200.
The main reason to upgrade is dynamic range and smooth tonal transitions. The secondary is a bump in resolution: I am also in very high-res imaging (200Mpix+, 1x2 mt prints) with pano heads, but carrying pano heads around is a pain in the neck, and the A7R would probably be ok with a tripod head only and hand movements.
I shoot architecture (urbex, actually) with a tripod in low light, casual landscape and street hand-held. I am a bit overwhelmed by all the problems with the 36Mpx sensor, shake and hand-holding.
Two basic questions:
1. would shooting "casual" photos, not needing a lot of resolution, in crop mode be a viable solution to shake? Or would I have the same problems? In other words, would the NEX 6 hidden inside the A7R be a real NEX 6?
2. is resolution the only difference (image-wise) between the two models?
tnx

 

[Vivek]

Two basic questions:
1. would shooting "casual" photos, not needing a lot of resolution, in crop mode be a viable solution to shake? Or would I have the same problems? In other words, would the NEX 6 hidden inside the A7R be a real NEX 6?
2. is resolution the only difference (image-wise) between the two models?
tnx

These are easy to answer and in clear and unambiguous terms:

1. The A7R is far far better than the NEX-6.

2. Resolution is not the only difference (between NEX-6 and A7R, I suppose?). The tonal range, noise, colors, etc, -everything is far better.

Also, people keep forgetting that cameras like the NEX-5 and the C3 (used own the 5 and still have a C3) are far more difficult to handhold than the NEX-6 or 7. (It is a different matter for folks coming from Nikon or Canon)

The NEX-6 or the 7 (even with the electronic first curtain shutter) are more difficult to hand hold and get sharp images than the A7R.

 

[f64]

Sorry for having been unclear.
Q1: Has the crop mode of A7R the same quality and is it without shake problems as the NEX 6 (or 5, that I know)?
Q2: comparison between A7R and A7: is resolution the only difference (image-wise) between the two models?

 

[Ron Pfister]

The crop mode is just that, an APS-C crop of the sensor. You're not getting rid of any vibration problems that way. They are actually magnified, because in proportion to the pixel dimensions of the image, the vibration is magnified.

 

[Ron Pfister]

If you can shoot at shutter speeds of 1/3f or shorter or at 2s or longer, the A7R will be fine for tripod work, even on a light tripod. As far as a pano head is concerned, I've been really happy with this slim and light-weight offering from Arca, combined with their ball head p0:

Monoball Panorama System1

I've made some modifications to the setup shown in the above link (shorter rails/plates), and it has worked really well for me with the NEX-7. I imagine it would work equally well with the A7/A7R.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

What you will get in the crop is less corner problems since in APC mode it crops those out. That would be about the only benefit or folks that are using a very wide lens with heavy vignetting and smearing it would crop that out but of course your FOV would get smaller too. So no free lunch

 

[f64]

The crop mode is just that, an APS-C crop of the sensor. You're not getting rid of any vibration problems that way. They are actually magnified, because in proportion to the pixel dimensions of the image, the vibration is magnified.


Makes sense and it is what I was afraid of.
However, your answer and Vivek's seem to indicate that coming from a NEX 5 with a fair amount of keepers, I should not be too afraid of the step to a A7R

Sorry I got out of sync

 

[Vivek]

That is correct and precisely for this reason (and better construction), the A7R is easier to hand hold than any of the NEX's.

The crop mode is just that, an APS-C crop of the sensor. You're not getting rid of any vibration problems that way. They are actually magnified, because in proportion to the pixel dimensions of the image, the vibration is magnified.

 

[Ron Pfister]

Shutter vibration is definitely *much more* of a problem with the A7R than with any NEX due to the missing electronic first shutter curtain. That said, it seems to me that the shutter vibration is actually more of a problem with the A7R when shooting from a tripod than when shooting hand-held (I imagine due to dampening of the vibrations by hands/body).

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm really thinking there is a way to get rid of this shutter vibration issue via firmware as in my mind a delay needs to be in place when the first curtain opens than the sensor activates . It would act more like a cam with a mirror this way like the D800. I think Sony can solve it with a special 3 second self timer setting. That's all firmware

 

[Ron Pfister]

That is correct and precisely for this reason (and better construction), the A7R is easier to hand hold than any of the NEX's.

This may be the case with the NEX-7 (I simply can't say, because I almost exclusively use it on a tripod), but it certainly isn't with the NEX-6 (and therefore likely with any other ~16MP NEX). Very few of my handheld shots taken with the NEX-6 are blurry, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the EFC is a significant contributing factor here.

 

[f64]

As far as a pano head is concerned, I've been really happy with this slim and light-weight offering from Arca, combined with their ball head p0:

Monoball Panorama System1

I've made some modifications to the setup shown in the above link (shorter rails/plates), and it has worked really well for me with the NEX-7. I imagine it would work equally well with the A7/A7R.

Thank you. Looks interesting, a bit expensive but probably lighter than my Panohead. I was also considering the Rhinocam, but it looks like it doesn't work with A7(R)

 

[Ron Pfister]

Thank you. Looks interesting, a bit expensive but probably lighter than my Panohead. I was also considering the Rhinocam, but it looks like it doesn't work with A7(R)

There may be a modification of the Rhinocam in the works. There is a separate thread on this, but no news recently.

Edit: this is the thread --> http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/49414-rhinocam-appears-work-a7.html

 

[Vivek]

This may be the case with the NEX-7 (I simply can't say, because I almost exclusively use it on a tripod), but it certainly isn't with the NEX-6 (and therefore likely with any other ~16MP NEX). Very few of my handheld shots taken with the NEX-6 are blurry, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the EFC is a significant contributing factor here.

There are many factors:

A few that comes to mind...

1. I can hold the A7R better than the NEX-6.
2. The EVF's position is different and perhaps suits my use (A7R) better.
3. Even waist level shooting with the A7R is better.
4. Suggestions from extraneous elements have not bothered me.
5. Whatever image degradation comes from EFC is absent.
6. More metal (A7R) than plastic (NEX-6).
7. Absence of the pop up flash (it helps me!).

and such. The A7R may not work for everyone or up to their taste. They can always return the camera for a refund and find other alternatives.

 

[Ron Pfister]

Your ability to pepper your posts with completely irrelevant information is stunning, Vivek! What do 'image degradation comes from EFC' and 'absence of the pop up flash' have to do with preventing vibration/motion blur?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

One other thing of note holding the cam to your eye is far more steady than holding the blasted thing 2 ft from your body. Your head with two hands creates a tripod effect and a wall to lean against. Yes I said it your head is a brick wall to lean on. LOL

I actually hate cameras that take the cam away from my eye. I just can't work those LCD only cams. iPhone I have to have my reading glasses on its a royal pain.

 

[f64]

So as I understand it, if I am comfortable with a NEX 5, I should not have problems with the A7R.

And what about my naive question 2? Is there something more, image-wise, in the A7R than in the A7? Like that elusive MF look?