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Thread: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The drama would have been even more had he downloaded the new app and checked out some of his wider M lenses. May be we will see that in a few months.

    So, what happened to your M10 tests, Marc? Are you keeping that or sending it back?
    Now you're just being incendiary Vivek

    I couldn't send the M240 (M10) back fast enough ... but I think you knew that

    The MM keeps my love affair with rangefinders alive and well.

    All the best to Leica ... I'm loving the S2 even more than when I got it, and the MM is what a M should be IMO. I'll leave it at that.

    - Marc
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Has anyone tested the 70-200/2.8 with the LA-E4? Just curious before I sell it for the 70-200/4 E-mount.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Has anyone tested the 70-200/2.8 with the LA-E4? Just curious before I sell it for the 70-200/4 E-mount.
    Mine works well with the LA-EA3, although AF is very slow. I may pick up an LA-EA4 at some time, but I still have full size alpha mount bodies I can count on for AF, and I wanted to avoid the mass and mirror of the LA-EA4 with my a7r.

    Gustav at Dyxum posted some pre-release images using the a7r and various lenses (scroll down to the prairie dog (?) images. He reports AF on par with the a99).
    third result A7R (18 pics) - Dyxum - Page 1

    Graham

    Edit: Here's some more of Gustav's work with the 70-200/2.8 with the a7R/LA-EA3. No autofocus, but they are beautiful images. http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/some-fox...02570.html?KW=
    Last edited by GrahamB; 20th December 2013 at 06:39.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    That's fine and the pics are lovely but I want to know how the 70-200/2.8 G will focus when the fox is running after its food.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    That's fine and the pics are lovely but I want to know how the 70-200/2.8 G will focus when the fox is running after its food.
    If you focus manually, it will be just fine:



    Sorry, couldn't resist! This image was taken hand-held (no kidding) and is manually focussed. Probably my luckiest shot ever. While exploring Awash National Park, I saw this jackal approaching quickly in the distance on the other side of the vehicle. I knew my only chance of a decent image was to get out of the car and shoot hand-held because all tripods were stowed in the trunk, and there would be no time to set one up before the moment would pass. I was amazed to find the face of the jackal tack sharp when reviewing the images of that day. The jackal must have just eaten a chicken before (complete with one of those amazing stabilizers)...
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Has anyone tested the 70-200/2.8 with the LA-E4? Just curious before I sell it for the 70-200/4 E-mount.
    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    That's fine and the pics are lovely but I want to know how the 70-200/2.8 G will focus when the fox is running after its food.
    I don't think that combination would make a good sports kit. Here's the quote from Gustav regarding the a7r+LA-EA4. The images in this thread were widely circulated on the web (the quote comes from a Gustav post on pg. 7).my first result with A7r - Dyxum - Page 1

    "Gustav,
    How do you find the AF with the 70-200? Is it as responsive as on your A99?

    hi stinndler , yes i try today the A7R with the adapter LA-EA4 with the sony 70-200 , it was pretty fast , not so fast as with the A99 , but it was really not bad"

    Graham

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Please do Graham I need to know fairly quickly as i may change my rental thats coming to me the 30th. I rented the Nikon 70-200 but I may want to use my sony for this job coming up. I just need to know if follow focus is good.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Graham, thank you. Did he test the A7 with the Sony A mount 70-200/2.8 G or just the 7R? Is the AF with long lens on the A7 as quick as with the a99?

    I am not a sports photographer but a father whose kids dance hip hop, swim, and occasionally play water polo. Part of being the photographer for the Hip Hop Kidz here in South Florida is that I get press passes (even though I do not get paid), so I want something responsive and light because after a while the a900 becomes heavy.

    Finally, for what it is worth, I do not own a decent tripod so shooting on a tripod is not an option for me at this point or in the near future.

    Any other links that you could send will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks again.

    Mikal

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    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    I agree that giving it some time is the way to go, Michael. I'm using many of the same lenses you are, and think the A7R is just fine without a grip. I firmly believe the size-advantage outweighs anything else. E.g. with the grip, I would likely have to use a larger bag than I use now (TT Retro 5), and that's not going to happen - for general use, at least.
    Ron,

    Adding a plate to the bottom like the RRS one will probably add all the depth I need to feel it fits my hand reasonably. My pinky wants to fall off the camera on the bottom.

    Bigger lenses, and I suspect I'd want the grip. I'll give it a few weeks before making any decisions, though.


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Just got the grip . I like it so far.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    I don't think that combination would make a good sports kit. Here's the quote from Gustav regarding the a7r+LA-EA4. The images in this thread were widely circulated on the web (the quote comes from a Gustav post on pg. 7).my first result with A7r - Dyxum - Page 1

    "Gustav,
    How do you find the AF with the 70-200? Is it as responsive as on your A99?

    hi stinndler , yes i try today the A7R with the adapter LA-EA4 with the sony 70-200 , it was pretty fast , not so fast as with the A99 , but it was really not bad"

    Graham
    As I mentioned, inclusion of SSW AF helps ... which the 70-200/2.8G has ... however, the new 70-200/2.8G SSW II apparently inhances its tracking ability and has added nano AR coatings to lens elements.

    The new version is a mere $1,000 more than its' predecessor, making it $2,998. ... the most expensive 70-200/2.8 by a good margin. The dang thing doesn't even have IS built in like Nikon/Canon, and relies on the IBIS of the Alpha SLT cameras

    So, the question is, do the Canon or Nikon 70-200/2.8 retain their IS with the right adapter ... and how fast are they at AF?

    - Marc

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    My bet is Nikon/canon lose there IS due lost connection with camera.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Marc,
    I think you got a pretty good idea of the focus speed with the metabones III adapter when you tried mine with the 40mm. Every EF lens that I have focuses at live view speed-- slow, but certain-- focuses pat the correct point, then backs up and locks on.

    On the plus side, IS works.

  14. #64
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    I think I might be coming back into the fold with the release of this camera... I've been waiting on quasi-MF resolution and Dr, with the color and ease of use from the old a900...

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Marc,
    Can you comment on overall IQ as it compares to the A99?
    I realize we are not comparing apples to apples.
    Thanks
    Steven
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdg137 View Post
    Marc,
    I think you got a pretty good idea of the focus speed with the metabones III adapter when you tried mine with the 40mm. Every EF lens that I have focuses at live view speed-- slow, but certain-- focuses pat the correct point, then backs up and locks on.

    On the plus side, IS works.
    Well, that answers the IS question for Guy ... IF it holds true for Nikon also.

    Marke, do any your Canon lenses have Super Sonic Wave AF motors in the lenses? I ask because it made a difference in speed with different A mount lenses I'm using. Those with SSW acted just about the same as when on my Alpha DSLR cameras. Those without it were slower ... not nearly as slow as your 40mm was, but not as fast as lenses with SSW.

    Question:

    Did you figure out how to activate "Eye Focus" and assign it to a custom button? Is that an A7 feature missing on the A7R?

    - Marc

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Marc,
    Can you comment on overall IQ as it compares to the A99?
    I realize we are not comparing apples to apples.
    Thanks
    Steven
    A99 is 24 meg with a AA filter, the A7R is 36 meg without AA.

    What would be interesting is someone with the A99 that got the A7 ... more Apples-to-Apples comparison in terms of IQ. I'd be very curious whether the A7 improves on the A99 files, and retains the A7R higher ISO qualities

    Steven, here's my "from memory" sort of impressions on IQ (which isn't just a quick answer)

    ... I still have and use the A900 along side the A99, and now have the A7R with LA-EA4 adapter. So, in terms of lenses it can at least be Apples-to-Apples without mixing in other optical factors.

    A900 is the camera that defined a certain color/contrast response that quite a few people found exceedingly pleasing and still do ... including me. What seemed to be sacrificed at that "color response altar" was higher ISO performance.

    To me, the A99 seemed to be tuned to balance out the conflict between lower ISO color/contrast response and providing higher ISO performance compared to the A900. IMO, the A900 IQ is still a bit better than the A99 at base ISO, but the A99 is the better all around camera with excellent IQ across a broader ISO range ... making it a more practical everyday camera ... or better for certain applications like ambient light wedding photography I still do from time-to-time. However, when working with flash, there is virtually little difference in the files that I can detect.

    The A7R is as good as the base ISO A900 in terms of color response, obviously delivers more resolution when properly used, and retains its image characteristics well into the higher ISOs ... effectively leaving both the A900 and A99 behind for lower light applications.

    For some of the test shots I've done so far, the A7R with ZA lenses smokes the Leica M9 and M240 for out of camera color/contrast/DR response. It is reminiscent of the M9 "Leica look" but walks away from the M9 from ISO 640 on up, and has a much more forgiving DR at all ISOs. IMO, the M240 is still to fraught with color issues and IR contamination in comparison ...the skin tones from the A7R are much better out of the camera, and allow flexible creative explorations, rather than trying to fix something.

    At this early stage of exploring the A7R I can say that my "CCD verses CMOS" personal debate has been seriously challenged. This is the first CMOS camera I've used that may well trash my argument in favor of CCD.

    There, I said it.

    - Marc
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    A99 is 24 meg with a AA filter, the A7R is 36 meg without AA.

    What would be interesting is someone with the A99 that got the A7 ... more Apples-to-Apples comparison in terms of IQ. I'd be very curious whether the A7 improves on the A99 files, and retains the A7R higher ISO qualities

    Steven, here's my "from memory" sort of impressions on IQ (which isn't just a quick answer)

    ... I still have and use the A900 along side the A99, and now have the A7R with LA-EA4 adapter. So, in terms of lenses it can at least be Apples-to-Apples without mixing in other optical factors.

    A900 is the camera that defined a certain color/contrast response that quite a few people found exceedingly pleasing and still do ... including me. What seemed to be sacrificed at that "color response altar" was higher ISO performance.

    To me, the A99 seemed to be tuned to balance out the conflict between lower ISO color/contrast response and providing higher ISO performance compared to the A900. IMO, the A900 IQ is still a bit better than the A99 at base ISO, but the A99 is the better all around camera with excellent IQ across a broader ISO range ... making it a more practical everyday camera ... or better for certain applications like ambient light wedding photography I still do from time-to-time. However, when working with flash, there is virtually little difference in the files that I can detect.

    The A7R is as good as the base ISO A900 in terms of color response, obviously delivers more resolution when properly used, and retains its image characteristics well into the higher ISOs ... effectively leaving both the A900 and A99 behind for lower light applications.

    For some of the test shots I've done so far, the A7R with ZA lenses smokes the Leica M9 and M240 for out of camera color/contrast/DR response. It is reminiscent of the M9 "Leica look" but walks away from the M9 from ISO 640 on up, and has a much more forgiving DR at all ISOs. IMO, the M240 is still to fraught with color issues and IR contamination in comparison ...the skin tones from the A7R are much better out of the camera, and allow flexible creative explorations, rather than trying to fix something.

    At this early stage of exploring the A7R I can say that my "CCD verses CMOS" personal debate has been seriously challenged. This is the first CMOS camera I've used that may well trash my argument in favor of CCD.

    There, I said it.

    - Marc
    Agree 100% with everything you said regarding the A7/r versus the Leica M9 and M. Hands down this is the closest a CMOS sensor has gotten to the "CCD look."
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Although, I really loved my A900, I ultimately sold it because of the hot shoe adaptor. I'm shooting lot's of on location strobes, and having a proprietary hot shoe, imo, is not a good design, especially if you have a PW or Air remote. It seems that the A7R shares that feature.
    I do like the Zeiss Touit lenses, and the ability to adapt many others, but can't justify a completely new camera system for portable, on location shooting as a back up camera.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Johnny its a normal hot shoe
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, that answers the IS question for Guy ... IF it holds true for Nikon also.

    Marke, do any your Canon lenses have Super Sonic Wave AF motors in the lenses? I ask because it made a difference in speed with different A mount lenses I'm using. Those with SSW acted just about the same as when on my Alpha DSLR cameras. Those without it were slower ... not nearly as slow as your 40mm was, but not as fast as lenses with SSW.

    Question:

    Did you figure out how to activate "Eye Focus" and assign it to a custom button? Is that an A7 feature missing on the A7R?

    - Marc
    Marc,
    Just tried it with the metabones and the 14mm f2.8 II, the new image stabilized 100mm Macro, and the 70-200mm IS, all of which are USM lenses.

    Focusing is significantly faster, but it displays the same "drive past focus, back up, and lock on" behavior. I assume the A7, using PDAF would not do this.

    Figured out the eye detection. I set the button in the AF/MF-- AEL toggle to the following:
    1. Toggle in up (AF/MF) position, button activates
    magnifier for manual focus

    2. Toggle in down (AEL) position, button activates eye
    focus.
    This set up seems to be very quick, and intuitive for me. The eye focus is a bit hit and miss, but Im sure that's a question of me learning its limitations. But, it does seem very promising.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Although, I really loved my A900, I ultimately sold it because of the hot shoe adaptor. I'm shooting lot's of on location strobes, and having a proprietary hot shoe, imo, is not a good design, especially if you have a PW or Air remote. It seems that the A7R shares that feature.
    I do like the Zeiss Touit lenses, and the ability to adapt many others, but can't justify a completely new camera system for portable, on location shooting as a back up camera.
    Shares what feature?

    The A99, A7 and A7R have conventional hot shoes. I've fired strobes with the A7R using both Profoto AIR and PW.

    The A900 required a little inexpensive adapter. The unconventional Minolta shoe mount wasn't so great for strobe work because it did need that adapter, but for fast paced work like weddings where you are mounting and removing the speed-light a lot, it was far quicker and much more stable than Canon or Nikon.

    -Marc

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'm not "belittling" it Ben
    - Marc
    Pardon the pun
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Just posting to be informed of the latest developments

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    A99 is 24 meg with a AA filter, the A7R is 36 meg without AA.

    What would be interesting is someone with the A99 that got the A7 ... more Apples-to-Apples comparison in terms of IQ. I'd be very curious whether the A7 improves on the A99 files, and retains the A7R higher ISO qualities

    Steven, here's my "from memory" sort of impressions on IQ (which isn't just a quick answer)

    ... I still have and use the A900 along side the A99, and now have the A7R with LA-EA4 adapter. So, in terms of lenses it can at least be Apples-to-Apples without mixing in other optical factors.

    A900 is the camera that defined a certain color/contrast response that quite a few people found exceedingly pleasing and still do ... including me. What seemed to be sacrificed at that "color response altar" was higher ISO performance.

    To me, the A99 seemed to be tuned to balance out the conflict between lower ISO color/contrast response and providing higher ISO performance compared to the A900. IMO, the A900 IQ is still a bit better than the A99 at base ISO, but the A99 is the better all around camera with excellent IQ across a broader ISO range ... making it a more practical everyday camera ... or better for certain applications like ambient light wedding photography I still do from time-to-time. However, when working with flash, there is virtually little difference in the files that I can detect.

    The A7R is as good as the base ISO A900 in terms of color response, obviously delivers more resolution when properly used, and retains its image characteristics well into the higher ISOs ... effectively leaving both the A900 and A99 behind for lower light applications.

    For some of the test shots I've done so far, the A7R with ZA lenses smokes the Leica M9 and M240 for out of camera color/contrast/DR response. It is reminiscent of the M9 "Leica look" but walks away from the M9 from ISO 640 on up, and has a much more forgiving DR at all ISOs. IMO, the M240 is still to fraught with color issues and IR contamination in comparison ...the skin tones from the A7R are much better out of the camera, and allow flexible creative explorations, rather than trying to fix something.

    At this early stage of exploring the A7R I can say that my "CCD verses CMOS" personal debate has been seriously challenged. This is the first CMOS camera I've used that may well trash my argument in favor of CCD.

    There, I said it.

    - Marc
    Thanks for your input Marc.
    I did rent a A7 and matching 35/2.8 FE lens.
    I did a comparison with my A99 which I was using a Zeiss 35/2.8 ZF lens with a leitax mount and I also did a test comparing the A99 with a Zeiss 50/2 ZF lens with leitax mount and on the A7 I used a Zeiss 50/2 ZM and used a voigtlander NEX to M adaptor.

    If someone knows a place where I can upload the raw files, I would be happy to share.

    To me they look very close, yet would love to have some younger eyes look at the files.

    Steven
    Steven Kornreich
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    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Steven, try www.wetransfer.com. It's free and simple to use.

    Hint: send the file to yourself and then share the link you receive by mail.

  27. #77
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Good to know, thanks guys. I didn't like that adaptor on the A900, for the simple fact that it's another connection that can fail. I'd also be curious how the Otus performs on the A7R.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Steven, try www.wetransfer.com. It's free and simple to use.

    Hint: send the file to yourself and then share the link you receive by mail.
    OK here is the link
    http://we.tl/IK7vegx03x
    4 files
    DCS00010.ARW A7 Zeiss 50/2 ZM at F8
    _DSC2662.ARW A99 Zeiss 50/2 ZF at F8
    DSC00004.ARW A7 Sony/Zeiss 35/2.8 at F8
    _DSC2657.ARW A99 Zeiss 50/2 at F8

    Let me know what you think.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Feels like Deja vu all over again ...

    "The QC sucks." ... "No it doesn't." ... "Yes it does!" ... "No it doesn't!"

    "Can't AF." ... "Yes it can." ... "No it can't!" ... "Yes it can, and does!"

    Look at it this way ... at least it isn't a $20K+ MFD camera or $7,000 Leica M triggering all the conflicted debate as has been the case in past. Digalloyd swore the S2 couldn't focus accurately to save its life, and proved it with countless examples ... which had some owners like me scratching our heads since we couldn't duplicate the issue, nor were we experiencing it. I still have the camera. Some folks think the M240 color is fine, and others think it has to much IR contamination and produces ghastly OOC color (including me) ... never the twain shall meet.

    What would we speculate the reason that Sony launched two different cameras at the same time?

    Could it be that no one camera can fit everyone's specific needs? Not to mention that neither one of the A7s may be a match to some people's needs.

    Canon 1D MK-III, Canon 1Ds MK-III ... One was lightening quick and the other: the "s" allegedly stood for "Studio."

    Different people are coming to this new camera with different experiences and different expectations. Reviewers also.

    Long lens blur? Anyone remember the Mamiya RZ long lens requirements? The telephotos came with an elaborate support arm system for the lens itself ... and talk about crippled: top leaf shutter speed was 1/400 even with a 360mm tele.! No shutter shock, but this camera/lens configuration was a "sail" outdoors. If someone coughed in the next county, the images were blurred.

    IQ/QC? Digalloyd swore the ZF/ZE 100/2 macro was the holy grail of optics, mine had irritatingly difficult CA, so did the replacement, and the replacement for that replacement.

    Etc., etc., etc.

    I'll tell you one thing, this Sony camera has so many different settings, and ways to configure it, that it has my head spinning. Honestly, to get the most out of it is like learning to play the flute. Your fingers have to be trained to press this, then this, in the right sequence. Off-putting for some, fun for others. While I normally like simple and no-brainer, I actually like the challenge of this camera ... something new to master during the winter months as a fun break from the usual. Maybe I'll take on cell phone "texting" with my sausage fingers as the next challenge ...

    All "Gear Whore" jokes aside ... it is very conceivable that someone like Guy, (and to a lesser extent, me), get both A7s ... and I just noticed Guy has done exactly that!

    I currently carry the A900, A99 and often the S2, (and sometimes the M Monochrome) to weddings and larger, more important events. The bigger camera is for large group photos, bridal portraits, and sweeping environmental shots that will be printed larger and viewed closer. That could easily be reduced to the A99, A7 and A7R ... that is a significant difference.

    It's pretty hard to sort out all the conflicting reports from owners and reviewers. Mounting a Leica 280mm with a third party adapter using this tri-pod, that head, and some other QR system, introduces so many variables I'm at a loss as to what-is-what. What worked before is no guarantee it will work in this instance. Luckily, I don't use anything over 135 ... except the occasional AF 500/8 on the IBIS A99 ... I won't be using that lens on the A7R or the A7 even if I had one because neither A7 is Image Stabilized.

    All that said, I wouldn't deny there is shutter vibration with the A7R ... so best not try to cheat shutter speeds or any other stringent technique requirement ... (any more than I can with the Leica S2 or my previous H4D/60).

    BTW, this thing KILLS in the studio, or on-location with lighting.

    - Marc

    My holiday card to you all ... an exercise in light balance using strobes and old time incandescent Christmas tree lights. A7R, 135/1.8, Profoto strobes with gridded softbox.
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  30. #80
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Feels like Deja vu all over again ...


    BTW, this thing KILLS in the studio, or on-location with lighting.

    - Marc
    Marc I think you have uncovered where the A7r really shines....
    Steven Kornreich
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  31. #81
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Geez you took the exact words out of my mouth. I bought both bodies and for very good reason the A7 will be my PR cam with vertical grip. The grip is nice for handholding not great for tripod it wobbles a little but the A7 will be my speed camera with AF on board for that crap work I hate but puts food on the table. I have for AF the 28-70 which will be replaced when the 24-70 comes out a perfect setup for wedding , pr folks and the like. I have the 35FE which I can use on either body, the ZA 85 1.4 can also. Than for the A7r mostly tripod bound for the real work I do than I have the Leica 19r and Zeiss 135 and any longer I rent. 2 bodies intended for different subjects . Eventually I'll get my tech cam back and still have these on board. Now why did I switch its really simple manual focus on Nikons suck and live view is just okay. The Sony hands down beats anything I seen in this mode and I prefer to manual focus and forced like twisting my arm to shoot AF. size is another factor but not the major one. I would not touch a EVF cam before this one. It is so good it looks optical and after 40 years you are so trained on optical it's very hard to go EVF. This cam I can. Than the bottom line I have the D610 and D800e in a less expensive package with the same or better results. Plus I was able to keep my best glass without buying and selling to get the same thing back. Than the added I can bolt anything to it almost that is is exciting. This is a freaking home run , sure it has a few niggles tell me a cam that don't . Trust me I bought , used everything almost on the planet looking for the holy grail and there is none but I can get closer and this one helps. Seriously I bailed on Nikon so fast after just a few shots with this. I maybe the biggest gear head slut around but it needs to make sense or I'm just being stupid and I ain't stupid in this field at all. To me that quick decision to bail even impressed me. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  32. #82
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Guy, did you test the A7 on faster moving subjects yet? I really wish that some of the Nikon sports shooters (cars, baseball, water polo) in the Nikon forum would test this thing out and report back to us. Although I will see Marc, his lovely wife, his A7R and his dogs whose expressions change every 1/2 nanosecond, I really want to see how the A7 performs in sports activities.

    I also want to see how usable the higher isos are (3200, 4000, 6400, etc.) because a lot of the sporting activity and my kids' activities are in less than prime / optimal light.

    And, I hate using a flash.

    Thanks.

  33. #83
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    No I have not recieved the A7 yet and won't have the 7-200G until December 30th as i am renting that for my gig in LA. Im taking a educated risk here that it will be fine on follow focus. Also buffer but I can turn a lot off for buffer, turn review off and turn LCD off to shoot which is fine for what i am doing. I also figure it this way model walking runway about 75 ft which is a long way I can squeeze 5 images off with follow focus if I can't than I can do single focus. I'm not too concerned. Later on down the road i will probably buy the Minolta 200m 2.8 High speed but don't spread that around they are hard to get. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Guy, I can wait. I guess you will test the A7 and A7R side by side with the 70-200/2.8G. All I know is that I am looking for a camera that has good to excellent follow focus for when the subject is heading towards me. I shot a kids hip hop production at the halftime of the U of Florida - Fresno St. basketball game with the a900 and Minolta 35/2. The dancers were moving towards me pretty quickly and the camera hunted like it had rarely hunted before. I could have switched to manual focus but it would have been too late by then.

    Thanks again.

  35. #85
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Here is another possible option for a method to make the camera a little larger to fit your hand...

    New Gariz leather cases for the A7-A7r. | sonyalpharumors

    What I really wish is that they took the bottom metal plate and added an A-S QR wedge shape to it. Essentially, a blend between this product and the RRS plate.

    That would be almost ideal!


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

  36. #86
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    I jumped pretty quickly at the A7r. My DSLR is a Canon 5d3 and my travel cam (my job, non photographic) has been an OMD-EM5. The OMD has been really good but I craved the higher resolution possible from the A7r with the added bonus that I could use my TS/E lenses on the A7r as well. I also have some Leica gear and was hoping to use most of those lenses.

    What I've learned so far...

    I thought my 50 Summilux ASPH was going to work great on the A7r, being of a longer focal length. Not so. This was a real letdown. The edges turn to crap with smearing. It seems just about all other 50's work well with this one being a curious exception.

    21 Super Elmar, another stellar performer on the M9 was also a no go on the A7r, I could correct the color shading in LR or C1 but I've got edge smearing pretty bad. This was not a surprise.

    CV 35 1.2 vII works great! This has been an exceptional lens on my M9 and it is on the A7r, an unqualified success. This leads me to the next lens, the Sony 35 2.8FE

    For the first time in over 30 years, I'm sending a lens back for de-centering (or a tilted element). At first I just though I was dealing with the randomness of my selected subjects and maybe a little field curvature but the results from my CV 35 were just so much better that I started doing a little more testing with the Sony lens----brick wall, resolution charts, specially selected scenes, etc... and I kept coming up with a loss of resolution on the left side... I'm returning it and have another one on the way already. I hate the lens testing stuff and just want a good copy.

    I have a Metabones adaptor for my Canon EF lenses and I haven't given it a full shakeout yet but while I was testing the 35 I grabbed the 5d3 and the 17 TS/e and thought I'd do a couple quick checks. Shot an identical scene using the A7r and the 5D3 with the 17 TS/E. As expected, greater detai from the A7r but sad to observe that with a little bit of rise, the A7r was getting soft in the upper right hand corner while the 5D3 was keeping it sharp. I've got to go try this combo again side by side in a controlled situation, hopefully I was observing operator error.

    Lastly, my lowly Canon 5d3 continues to impress me with its usability and near silent shutter and its excellent live view.
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  37. #87
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Over on LensRental.com blog, a VERY informative and honest evaluation of the A7R, it's lenses, ands shooting with adapters....VERY much recommended.
    It is here: LensRentals.com - Photo/video thoughts from the largest rental house

    Waiting for some decent weather here to use the A7R with FE 35mm, FE55mm, and A lenses with LAEA4 adapter.
    Dave in NJ
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  38. #88
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by gurtch View Post
    Over on LensRental.com blog, a VERY informative and honest evaluation of the A7R, it's lenses, ands shooting with adapters....VERY much recommended.
    Excellent
    I think Roger's stuff is always special.
    . . . and enjoyable too.

    Just this guy you know
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  39. #89
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    My only comment is he underestimates what Pros go though to get images. I shot sports with Medium format backs that make this Sony look like a jet engine. I shot sheet film hanging out of helicopters. Pros will shoot and do almost anything regardless of gear to get images. I do like Roger though and actually renting from him for 2 weeks coming up. This little Sony i will find a way to get work done. I get the A7 tomorrow and it should be faster. Or i can make it fast just turn all the stuff off. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  40. #90
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    - Marc

    My holiday card to you all ... an exercise in light balance using strobes and old time incandescent Christmas tree lights. A7R, 135/1.8, Profoto strobes with gridded softbox.
    you forgot the resolution chart and color checker!

  41. #91
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    - Marc

    you forgot the resolution chart and color checker!


    ... and the brick wall in the background with 200% corner crops ...

    - Marc

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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by fmueller View Post
    I thought my 50 Summilux ASPH was going to work great on the A7r, being of a longer focal length. Not so. This was a real letdown. The edges turn to crap with smearing. It seems just about all other 50's work well with this one being a curious exception.

    21 Super Elmar, another stellar performer on the M9 was also a no go on the A7r, I could correct the color shading in LR or C1 but I've got edge smearing pretty bad. This was not a surprise.

    CV 35 1.2 vII works great! This has been an exceptional lens on my M9 and it is on the A7r, an unqualified success. This leads me to the next lens, the Sony 35 2.8FE

    For the first time in over 30 years, I'm sending a lens back for de-centering (or a tilted element). At first I just though I was dealing with the randomness of my selected subjects and maybe a little field curvature but the results from my CV 35 were just so much better that I started doing a little more testing with the Sony lens----brick wall, resolution charts, specially selected scenes, etc... and I kept coming up with a loss of resolution on the left side... I'm returning it and have another one on the way already. I hate the lens testing stuff and just want a good copy.
    WOW..... I'm surprised with your results from the 50mm Summilux. What a shame!! I also would have thought that lens to be stellar..... my 50mm Summicron M is fantastic.... more than I could ask for.

    Every complaint, so far, for the 55mm 1.8 has been softness on the left side. This is easily confirmed by shooting a lens target and comparing left side to right side. If one is soft then the lens is decentered..... and it appears that there are a lot of decentered Sony 55mm lenses. Too bad as the lens has such potential. I also think its better to have a down and dirty quick test that has been reliable in the past to put a lens through. Passes - great!..... Fails...maybe goes back.

    Good to hear about the CV 35mm..... you should be happy with the Sony 35. I sure am......

    Victor

  43. #93
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    I tried my Canon 70-200 f/4 IS, and the autofocus stinks. It spins out and back close, then ratchets into focus. Takes about 1 second. I was outside and switched to manual focus; I think I was faster.

    However, this is the f/4 which is a lot darker. I also have a rented Metabones II, which may be faulty (it has one problem that I know of...).

    Dave
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

    davechewphotography.com

  44. #94
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Dave, I have the 70-200 f/2.8 IS and the Mk III adapter, and the focus isn't any faster. It's quite accurate, but certainly not usable for fast action. The main benefit I see with this adapter is IS (besides aperture control and EXIF).

  45. #95
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    The main benefit I see with this adapter is IS (besides aperture control and EXIF).
    Yeah, the IS seemed to work perfectly!

    Dave
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    My personal solution to the conflicting emotions:

    Yes, I am a gear slut. Love the finely crafted shiny bits. The siren call of 36 megapixels was driving me a bit wonky.

    Then I started comparing photos, not at 100%, but at the largest sizes that I ever use. Oooops. Shouldn't have done that. My gear lust suddenly evaporated.

    Then I started comparing at sizes twice as large as I would ever use, but still less than 100%. Hmmmmm. Still not feeling the pixel envy.

    I ordered the A7. Pretty. Shiny. I started to use it and compare it to my little 5n.

    As expected, just from the sheer math of it all, not a huge leap in resolution. However, the files are thicker, jucier - just nicer. The operation of the camera is leaps and bounds better (to my taste) than the 5n. It was almost as though Sony made the camera just for me. The controls, when set to aperture priority mode for all my manual lenses, are exactly what I want. I have not even looked at the manual.

    The only thing missing is the 5 axis IBIS, but it does everything else so perfectly, that I won't wait for that. The auto-iso multishot noise reduction works astonishingly well, and is so easy to switch into.

    Sony, you sultry minx, you have seduced me with your charms.

    All that being said, I really do understand why others will need the extra power of the non AA 36mp. For my uses, I will never need it.

    Oh, and special thanks to Jono Slack for posting the print size comparison. That reinforced my own logic, Mr. Spock.

    All the best,
    DGM
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  47. #97
    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Yeah, the IS seemed to work perfectly!

    Dave
    Can you set up your A7r so that the IS is activated not only during the shooting, but also while you are focusing manually ? One can do that on the Olympus MFT cameras and it is of great help with long lenses.

  48. #98
    Senior Member Ron Pfister's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Anna, with the Metabones Smart Adapter, IS is activated by half-pressing the shutter and then remains on for some seconds. Most of the time that's enough time for focusing, but sometimes not. If the latter, you have to half-press the shutter again, which causes the MF-assist to back out to FF view, and you have to zoom back in. Not the end of the world, but a bit inconvenient.

    Edit: sorry, brain fart - wrote Novoflex Smart Adapter. There is no such thing. I meant Metabones, of course. Changed the text above accordingly.
    Last edited by Ron Pfister; 29th December 2013 at 08:59.
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  49. #99
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Can you set up your A7r so that the IS is activated not only during the shooting, but also while you are focusing manually ? One can do that on the Olympus MFT cameras and it is of great help with long lenses.
    Yes, as Ron stated with the Metabones too. As far as I can tell it works just like it does on a Canon body.It is engaged as long as the shutter is half-pressed. Turning the manual focus ring does not engage the IS; only depressing the shutter half-way.

    Dave
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  50. #100
    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: Most "Conflicted" Camera Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    Anna, with the Metabones Smart Adapter, IS is activated by half-pressing the shutter and then remains on for some seconds. Most of the time that's enough time for focusing, but sometimes not. If the latter, you have to half-press the shutter again, which causes the MF-assist to back out to FF view, and you have to zoom back in. Not the end of the world, but a bit inconvenient.

    Edit: sorry, brain fart - wrote Novoflex Smart Adapter. There is no such thing. I meant Metabones, of course. Changed the text above accordingly.
    Many thanks for your explanations. When I tested the A7/A7r in a shop, I found the behavior of the magnifier very annoying, since my eyesight isn't very good and I'm rather slow at MF. I assumed that how long the magnifier stays on would be configurable in the customization menus, but may be not ? May be that I have been spoiled by the Olympus interface ?

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